SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
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EmCeeGramr
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Going on about how there's a difference between "Big Boss" and "Jack" is the most obnoxiously semantic thing
He was a puppet who saw the strings, revolted and then tried to liberate everyone.
And a real hero.
Hell, Venom himself is sort of a victim. Man's true identity - both physically and mentally - got silenced for the sake of Big Boss.
Ether_Snake
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There's barely anything connecting Solid Snake to Big Boss, the most we get until MGS4' ending is in MGS1 when he says he killed his father and that BB wanted it so, and really he didn't seem to care at all.
Plus, I said the guy running Foxhound, which isn't necessarily the same as who he kills in MG1 or MG2.
Oh yeah I remember doing that on the PS2, it was horrible. Especially towards the end on Eva's bike journey.
Death Metalist
Member
For those that don't see the time skip.
That's how the title originated, yes, and in that way Jack will always be the true Big Boss more than Venom, but in that same way the soldiers in MGSV and Peace Walker don't follow Big Boss because he defeated the Boss, they follow him because he's a natural leader trying to make a sustained existence for soldiers.
Yup. By the way, incase people didn't play Peace Walker. Joy = The Boss. Strange love and The Boss had a relationship during her space era.
Parasites
I don't. Looks like lighting is different and one isn't covered in blood.
But this doesn't make sense, either. Outer Heaven's logo didn't look like that in 1995 during Operation Intrude N313.
Don't we even see the correct logo during the after-credits timeline?
EmCeeGramr
Member
Uh, you may want to rewatch all of that. He's clearly haunted by what he did. He's putting on a brave face, but he obviously was destroyed by Big Boss's actions and words. You don't spend 6 years drinking yourself into a stupor in a Alaskan cabin because you're not affected by that.
Metal Gear 2 constantly mentions that Snake is traumatized and still has nightmares about Big Boss betraying him in the first one.
The other man started off as a body double but still ended up doing amazing things anyways to contribute to the legend. He is the real Big Boss too.
Naked and Venom are the real Big Boss.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Aw, I see. Ok, thanks.
No. He's a body double that indeed did amazing things. But still he was only a body double working in the name of Big Boss. He was not Big Boss himself.
There is only one.
Death Metalist
Member
Which is what I don't get. Before punching the mirror, you see DD logo on the locker. After he puts in operation intrude N313 and he punches the mirror, you see Outer Haven for a split second on the locker.
Ether_Snake
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Just to end up like this:
One of my biggest gripes of MGS4.
Just plain ol' shit tier game design.
You know, if they were going to remake burned-Big Boss from bodies Solidus' parts, they could have taken his eye. Big Boss still has the damn eye patch after all that but Solidus still has his eye.
Big Boss says they are both Big Boss now, so they are both Big Boss
Does the reflection have the Horn? I can't see.
WrenchNinja
Member
He did? Why have I never heard of him then?
Oh right, cause there's only one Big Boss.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Venom Snake is just as much the real Big Boss because it's just a meaningless title, and I know this is true because the real Big Boss said so to reassure the brainwashed man and I trust his authority and title
Weird, the credits and characters in the Truth tapes keep referring to the "real Big Boss" and to the "phantom," that's odd, I thought they were the same, how peculiar
Weird, the credits and characters in the Truth tapes keep referring to the "real Big Boss" and to the "phantom," that's odd, I thought they were the same, how peculiar
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
So you seem to be really stuck on the fact that Big Boss wasn't the legend you thought he was and was actually kinda a snake in worked in the shadows to a degree and had other people do his bidding for his own security.
Seems that Kojima can't stop assassinating his characters. Now you know how I feel about MGS4
Yeah, the logo changes. But it is wrong. And even, it seems to be the same location, which means that the scene still takes place in Mother Base, which we know is NOT MG's Outer Heaven.
You know, if they were going to remake burned-Big Boss from bodies Solidus' parts, they could have taken his eye. Big Boss still has the damn eye patch after all that but Solidus still has his eye.
Big Boss says they are both Big Boss now, so they are both Big Boss
Except the credits, which are pretty much word of god and overrule whatever characters say, distinguishes between the two.
So yeah. according to Kojima himself, there is Big Boss, and there is the phantom.
"There's room for only one Snake, and one Big Boss!"
Hands of Stone
Member
The Silver
Member
He never saw any strings, he saw fake strings the Patriots put in front of him to get him to dance around.
How salty would Solidus have been if had killed Jack just to find out the "Patriots" were all dead, poor guy never had a chance. At least Liquid successfully rebelled even if Ocelot pushed him to do it, the AIs did have to take him seriously unlike ol Georgie.
Do I need to send you to Ocelots hypnotist? I hear he's very good.
I still don't see it.
Where's this man?
The third Big Boss.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I still don't see it.
Where's this man?
That's the real Big Boss, the one who is actually old and not Venom who is some dude in his early 40's pretending to be old.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
I'm so looking forward to reading this again and again for the next decade.
You need to let this go, as it stands both are BB. It's implied that both are by all accounts capable as each other. Even Miller doesn't notice a difference and there is a reason why he tells you in the ranking, "They're going to tell legends about this one. That's why you're the best Boss. The one and only!".
It really doesn't matter in the end according to Kojima. We won't ever know who did half of what BB is credited with, the true Phantom Pain.
After all is said and done about Phantom Pain, I'm more annoyed at the fact that the game had no desire to explain how this ties into the future of the timeline with the exception of Big Boss going off to build Zanzibar.
Like, Paz really has no reason to exist in this game, yet they felt the need to retcon her death and make her live. We don't know Huey's fate, wtf Liquid is doing with a Metal Gear, why Ocelot eventually joins Liquid, why Ocelot even becomes a fucking villain (he literally was the most chill guy in this game), and most importantly WHY IS SOLID SNAKE NOT EVEN MENTIONED ONE EVER EVER EVER!?
I actually thought the Phantom Boss twist ending was better than how they wrapped up literally everyone elses story.
Every important plot point was in audiobook form.
It's like Phantom Pain exists entirely as a developer's reaction to 4's criticisms, and it's kind of unfortunate.
Like, Paz really has no reason to exist in this game, yet they felt the need to retcon her death and make her live. We don't know Huey's fate, wtf Liquid is doing with a Metal Gear, why Ocelot eventually joins Liquid, why Ocelot even becomes a fucking villain (he literally was the most chill guy in this game), and most importantly WHY IS SOLID SNAKE NOT EVEN MENTIONED ONE EVER EVER EVER!?
I actually thought the Phantom Boss twist ending was better than how they wrapped up literally everyone elses story.
Every important plot point was in audiobook form.
It's like Phantom Pain exists entirely as a developer's reaction to 4's criticisms, and it's kind of unfortunate.
Ocelot is the one doing the hypnosis. There is a tape saying how much he enjoys doing this kind of stuff.
Death Metalist
Member
Here's the ending. There's something to be said about all the smoke and mirrors as well.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I think someone needs to finish that story line
lol I get what you are saying man. In that obvious way there's a real Big Boss and there's a fake, a double. But to the soldiers in Diamond Dogs or Quiet? Why do they give a shit about the "real Big Boss" when Venom Big Boss Snake Punished Medic dude was the one who did it all?
Meanwhile, at Konami headquarters...
An executive raises his head in confusion.
"Did anyone else hear that? It was faint, but it sounded like 'Solid Snake is such an awesome character'. I think I have an idea for where we could take Metal Gear Solid 6, everybody!"
Ether_Snake
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)Of course. They can't tell the difference. To THEM, there is only one Big Boss.
But to us, as beyond-the-fourth-wall spectators, we know there's one Big Boss, and a body double which is NOT the real Big Boss. That's my point.
But not to us. We are not part of the in-game universe.
Kojima has made it clear about his feelings regarding the Big Boss legacy with this game.
As far as everybody is aware of, this is it. There won't be additional Metal Gear games to clarify who did what. Ultimately it doesn't matter in the end.
Yes, he has. That's why he differentiates between the two in the after-credits timeline.
Jawmuncher
Member
Him not returning to smash is ruining enough.
Death Metalist
Member
Well, why does the logo change then? Why after he puts and plays operation intrude N313? It just seems very specific, you only see the Outer Heaven emblem on the locker in like a split second after he punches the mirror.
Don't use "us". I don't care one way or another.
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