SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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The Silver
Member
What the hell are you guys arguing about with Venom being Big Boss.
In universe, to the people not in on it, Mr.Venom is effectively "Big Boss" as much as Mr.Naked is. Big Boss in the MG verse is the actual man(Naked) and then there's the legend that's inhabited by two different people.
To us in the real world, when in game characters who know the truth talk about it, or when the game is relaying info to US like the timeline then no shit we/it has to differentiate between real BB and Venom.
In universe, to the people not in on it, Mr.Venom is effectively "Big Boss" as much as Mr.Naked is. Big Boss in the MG verse is the actual man(Naked) and then there's the legend that's inhabited by two different people.
To us in the real world, when in game characters who know the truth talk about it, or when the game is relaying info to US like the timeline then no shit we/it has to differentiate between real BB and Venom.
Well they are separate entities. But they are also the same men. 2+2=5 or some bullshit like that.
I feel you're missing the entire point that in the future we don't know specifically which Big Boss does what things but that it doesn't really matter since everyone believes it's just one Big Boss, and that one really shouldn't get hung about it.
Thank you, I, Hideo Kojima, accept your praise.
Is the second Pope not the real Pope because both are alive at the same time? They're both the Pope.
Hands of Stone
Member
That's why after MGS4 I was like..
That ending was TOO satisfying. I was fine if they never released another MGS game but they did and of course I am not going to be saying no lol.
I had just got into the MGS series that same year, had beaten MGS3 maybe a week prior and my jaw was on the ground when I saw Big Boss. Still one of the greatest moments in gaming history for me.
But they are not the same men. They are two men using the same title, though. One of them is the real one, the one who actually earned the title. The other one is a double who was meant to attract attention while the other worked under the shadows.
There cannot be two Popes. One has to resign in order for the other to assume the title. Terrible analogy there. Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger is not the Pope, for example.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking about!
You can say that because the idea of legends is bullshit, that accepting two men as the same is fine because it doesn't matter which is which... but in the end, you're still conjoining two different men into the same legend despite knowing that it's not factually true. That's the sort of thing that pagans did when they got tired of worshiping certain gods so they just rolled them into each other.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I hope Kojima reveals that the BB at the end of MGS 4 was really venom
Basically, Real Big Boss was the legend of the 60s and 70s -- Phantom Boss was the legend of the 80s and 90s (at least I'm willing to believe. We really don't know which "Boss" was actively doing stuff before Metal Gear 1 and 2 but it's hinted that Phantom Boss is the new active Boss while real Boss is basically in hiding just giving orders to Phantom Boss). But no one knows that they're two separate people except Zero, Kaz, and Ocelot.
Dick Justice
Banned
Miller isn't aware initially, right? Zero tells him that BB is going to wake up, but I don't think he actually tells him about the double situation. Curious because I'm sure I read somewhere that Miller was in on it too.
Also, do the DD soldiers find out? After finishing mission 46, your soldiers will say something like "It doesn't matter who you are, you're still my CO".
Why are you just telling me stuff I already know? So you agree that both are working together to build up some legendary image of "Big Boss" in order to achieve their goals?
True enough. But the Jack is not around claiming the title of Big Boss. Venom is, and nobody is challenging his right to that title.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Well in the credits its revealed that Venom is the one killed by Solid
No, Miller knows. That end conversation happened before Venom wakes up. Considering Zero called Miller before everything happens and warns him to be ready when everything goes down.
Jack doesn't need to "claim" the title. He already has it.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
That wouldn't be much of a hurdle. The real BB "died" in MG 2 as well.
He isn't in on it.
He only finds out when Ocelot tells him, which is at some time post-game (it would seem).
Yes I like this one.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
That's probably because the only way Kojima could get any funding was saying everything was Metal Gear. Honestly we should start considering putting Peace Walker and MGSV in the same category as Portable Ops
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Naw, the ending definitively states that Solid killed Venom while BB went comatose until MGS4.
Death Metalist
Member
Yesssss. People can say what they want about his 50 hour exposition speech dump but the way he was revealed and his final line and the position he died in(on Boss's grave) besides his son made it all worth it.
Edit: I am so glad I wasn't spoiled on his reveal.
This plays into part of millers betrayal, right? He feels left out. I need to relisten to the tapes.
To be honest, if I had the power I would actually put Portable Ops in "full canon" category, and Peace Walker and TPP in the "pseudo-canon" one.
And this is coming from someone who LOVED Peace Walker.
Yeah it's all non-cannon. I mean didn't Kojima basically say V is like a spin-off in that tweet of his?
Right. Big Boss abandoned him, so he feels betrayed. "I really have lost it all".
It's justifiable anger. Big Boss left him to be tortured so that he could have a vacation, when the mission that got Miller into trouble with was one he took up only to keep Cipher from finding Big Boss, out of loyalty and not for money.
This is wrong too. Solid kills Venom in MG1 and kills Jack in MG2.
Dick Justice
Banned
If Miller knew beforehand, why would he have continued to work alongside Ocelot and not told Venom? He clearly shows his hatred of BB for doing it. What suggests that the conversation is before Venom wakes up? And Zero called Miller to tell him that Big Boss was waking up. He didn't say anything about Venom or body doubles.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
i mean its a spinoff in the sense that things from metal gear are there, but neither of the main protagonists bothered to show up and the whole thing is inconsecuential to the saga.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Its more like Big Boss betrays Miller first which pisses off an already pissed off man.
But yes he definitively states that he will send Big Boss to hell. That is their falling out. To be fair to Big Boss, Miller was a Cipher contact during Peace Walker. However, a tape with Zero implies he did have genuine feelings for BB.
Now I wonder. When Miller was working as a drill instructor in FOXHOUND, was it during the time of Big Boss' leadership, or did he joined during Campbell's?
Think about it, the twist changes absolutely nothing. The events in the future games all happen exactly the same. Everyone still thinks it's just one Big Boss.
It really is an inconsequential reveal that happened in this game so I have to wonder why Kojima even did it in the first place? Was he just trying to tell us "Big Boss lives in all of us" like some Mufasa from the Lion King nonsense?
It really is an inconsequential reveal that happened in this game so I have to wonder why Kojima even did it in the first place? Was he just trying to tell us "Big Boss lives in all of us" like some Mufasa from the Lion King nonsense?
Yeah that makes more sense actually.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
because he had to tie this game in to metal gear somehow
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Sold kills Venom in MG1, yes, which is what I posted. He does not kill BB though as he goes comatose.
Naw, Kojima is a human who sometimes makes mistakes, including shitty plot developments in his 28 year old story.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Speaking of Portable Ops and the truth tapes and canon, in one of the tapes Ocelot makes it sound like the name "The Patriots" was only thought up by Sigint as the name for the AI system well after Big Boss left and Zero got sick.
I'm... pretty sure PO and MGS4 talk about The Patriots being the actual founding members at first? Maybe i'm wrong?
I'm... pretty sure PO and MGS4 talk about The Patriots being the actual founding members at first? Maybe i'm wrong?
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
INGSOC.org has been updated.
The page says "Black Hound - Don't let Armageddon stop you". And now the source page no longer asks you to send an email with your name, it says:
He says in MPO "So we can become The Patriots".
The page says "Black Hound - Don't let Armageddon stop you". And now the source page no longer asks you to send an email with your name, it says:
He says in MPO "So we can become The Patriots".
Dick Justice
Banned
And what does introducing a body double accomplish? An excuse for BB's apparent survival after MG1? They could easily have explained that away with "he managed to survive" or "he caught the last bullet between his teeth".
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
He says, "I'll keep playing my role", "I'll send the real Big Boss to hell".
He's propping up Venom to possibly face Big Boss and goes on about "coexisting" with Ocelot.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Veggy
Member
Quickly whipped this up to describe my experience with MGS5, not going to insert image because the picture is pretty huge
Edit -Hmm neogaf didn't like that hosting site, lets try this one
http://i.imgur.com/YuA9Eni.jpg?1
Edit -Hmm neogaf didn't like that hosting site, lets try this one
http://i.imgur.com/YuA9Eni.jpg?1
Sure, but then why did they delete such an important chapter such as Venom taking down Liquid and the Sahelanthropus? The sound of that chapter alone has a ton of story potential. It makes me wanna believe that Kojima had more story for the other characters as well but it was all cut or never even thought to be implemented.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
That is an interesting question but I would have to imagine during Campbell's since he is not in MG1.
It is funny to imagine Miller and Big Boss awkwardly hating each other silently working at the same place. "I think I'll have lunch in my car, thanks."
The Silver
Member
Feels like it.
Honestly it reeks of some quickly put together "closure" once Kojima knew he was getting canned. Like this was never intended to be his last MGS game and now he has to find a way to say goodbye in a story that wasnt meant to.
Ether_Snake
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Yeah yeah I heard you. I say it's real. Was registered on March 3, like two days before the whole "Oh no Kojima and Kojipro are fired!" and it has been about MG and PT all along.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Whats INGSOC.org and what does this have to do with anything?
Yeah, should put "kills" in quotation marks.
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