Support NeoGAF

[Ishida]

I suppose you can make the argument that Big Boss really did descend into villainy. This is a man who raised nuclear weapons for practically no good reason, screwed up the life of some medic, getting countless innocent people killed in a hospital(seemingly with no regrets or guilt), putting an entire army in that medic's hands despite the likely psychological instabilities from the identity crisis, shrapnel injury, and hypnosis, stealing that man's identity, screwing over his friends and allies, all so he could selfishly hide and raise another army with nuclear weapons. The guy's a psycho.

And his descent into villany happens offscreen. Which sucks monkey balls.

We go from the guy from Peace Walker's ending to Ishmael who sets his own men for certain death.

How?

And he dares to wear a jacket with the Diamond Dogs logo on it.

Uughhh... >_<

 

[JTripper]

I don't know why I'm still playing this game. Maybe for completion sake. I'm 70% through with 28 side ops to go and all main missions completed.

I don't even feel like I'll earn anything by completing the game other than trophies. Thankfully the game plays like a charm (with the exception of fast travel). If the game played poorly I wouldn't have even kept going after the story ended.

 

[Alienous]

And his descent into villany happens offscreen. Which sucks monkey balls.

We go from the guy from Peace Walker's ending to Ishmael who sets his own men for certain death.

How?
<

Actually we go from the guy in Ground Zeroes who is trying to rescue a child soldier, a traitor, and as many of his men as he can...

to a coward who wants to ride a motorbike without being shot at.

 

[Ishida]

Actually we go from the guy in Ground Zeroes who is trying to rescue a child soldier, a traitor, and as many of his men as he can.

To a coward who wants to ride a motorbike without being shot at.

Yeah, you are right. For some reason I forgot about GZ for a second...

 

[Zomba13]

And he dares to wear a jacket with the Diamond Dogs logo on it.

He probably thought it was a sick designer brand and didn't ask Ocelot about it.


You know what one of the things I'm most disappointed about is?

We don't get a fucking motorcycle. All that cross promotion with Triumph amounted to literally a few seconds shot of a bike. EVA's bike was more worthy or cross promotion in 3 or 4 than this.

I just wanted to have Quiet scout ahead while I call in a bike and ride to meet her, it's be a better version of D-Horse, let you get around faster and stealthier than a jeep. But noooooo we get the fancy leather jacket and not the kick ass bike.

 

[MMarston]

I know what he's doing. He's building Zanzibar Land.

But what happened with the whole "let's fight together against our enemies"? Big Boss was not the type of character that would use his soldiers like that. Gene was that character. Gene was the type of commander that Big Boss was not, and that's the whole point.

Big Boss in MG2:SS cared about his soldiers He gave them a nation to live and fight willingly.

In MGSV, the same Big Boss not only fools them, but actually leaves them to fight under the command of a decoy, turning them into a gigantic target while he worked in the shadows.

So much bullshit.

Well, arguably that could fall in with the character's descent or rather obsession with what he wants to achieve.

So up in himself that he just doesn't care for the rest anymore - as long as the ambition falls through.

So maybe we are supposed to dislike him here?

Still underwhelming though

 

[Salaadin]

Maybe he was, after the events of the original Metal Gear he might've said to himself "They killed my double? Well might as well come back now"

That's the year Full House ended, maybe he was fed up with TV.

Very good point. I think we all lost a piece of us when full house ended.

 

[SkylineRKR]

MGS6 was to explain how he fell from grace as such, and what he was doing in all those years.

MGS7 would explain MGS6.

 

[minameissteve]

MGS3 should have been the snapping point for Big Boss, but I can accept that he split off and did other things in grief.

That's the most important thing to me about this ending. It almost single handedly destroys the last scene of Snake Eater to me.

That's all we needed. That single tear was all we needed to understand why he became the man we thought he would be (and was until now). I'm not saying I don't think it's a good idea to further contextualize why he would become a villain (Peace Walker was fine in that regard), but make sure that if you do that, you do it in a way that doesn't ruin his character.

 

[OverdriveOtaku]

MGS6 was to explain how he fell from grace as such, and what he was doing in all those years.

MGS7 would explain MGS6.

I can hear Harbinger's voice from Mass Effect: The Cycle Continues.

 

[OlGreenEyes]

 

[meltingparappa]

Maybe he was, after the events of the original Metal Gear he might've said to himself "They killed my double? Well might as well come back now"

That's the year Full House ended, maybe he was fed up with TV.

Maybe my brain melted, but I got confused in terms of his many 'deaths'.

So in Metal Gear, Solid Snake kills Venom.

In Metal Gear 2: SS, Solid Snake kills a bioroid version of Venom?

And then "our" Big Boss (Jack) doesn't eat it until Foxdie gets him in MGS4?


That timeline scrawl at the end...

 

[SolVanderlyn]

For what it's worth, Ishmael's performance in the hospital is the first time I really felt like I was witnessing the legendary charismatic Big Boss. Especially when he goes "I'll run interference" and jumps off the stairway shooting his gun sideways. The same way Solid Snake didn't feel like a legendary hero until viewed through a third person lens in MGS2.

This game needed more Big Boss. The Venom twist is fine. Good or even great. But this is about Big Boss... we needed more of him, player character or not.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

Maybe my brain melted, but I got confused in terms of his many 'deaths'.

So in Metal Gear, Solid Snake kills Venom.

In Metal Gear 2: SS, Solid Snake kills a bioroid version of Venom?

And then "our" Big Boss (Jack) doesn't eat it until Foxdie gets him in MGS4?


That timeline scrawl at the end...

Naw, MG2:SS was the real Big Boss.

 

[Jawmuncher]

What is the song that plays during the cut dialog?

 

[Ishida]

Maybe my brain melted, but I got confused in terms of his many 'deaths'.

So in Metal Gear, Solid Snake kills Venom.

In Metal Gear 2: SS, Solid Snake kills a bioroid version of Venom?

And then "our" Big Boss (Jack) doesn't eat it until Foxdie gets him in MGS4?


That timeline scrawl at the end...

Solid Snake kills Venom (The Phantom) in Metal Gear.
Solid Snake defeats Big Boss (The real one, Naked Snake) in Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake.

The real Big Boss stays in a coma from 1999 to 2014, and goes to meet and make peace with his last surviving son before dying.

 

[Zomba13]

http://imgur.com/z4sRWp8.jpg[img]
[img]http://imgur.com/SFZA6me.jpg[img]

;)[/QUOTE]

omg ingsoc website confirmed true. metal gear solid 5-2 6 and 7 confirmed. dlc coming next week! See guys! Seeeeeee!!!!!!

 

[Zekes!]

Big Boss apparently spends 24 years of his life in a coma

That's gotta be pretty shitty

 

[Alienous]

For what it's worth, Ishmael's performance in the hospital is the first time I really felt like I was witnessing the legendary charismatic Big Boss. Especially when he goes "I'll run interference" and jumps off the stairway shooting his gun sideways. The same way Solid Snake didn't feel like a legendary hero until viewed through a third person lens in MGS2.

This game needed more Big Boss. The Venom twist is fine. Good or even great. But this is about Big Boss... we needed more of him, player character or not.

Imagine if Skull Face was working with the real Big Boss, or some shit.

Now that would be something worth doing a ridiculous twist for. You're about to execute Skull Face and Big Boss CQC's the gun from your hand. Aw shit, here comes the Big Bad.

He could be talking some "All my soldiers were killed, and if I need to become a demon to protect them, that's what I'll do" shit.

 

[OlGreenEyes]

Big Boss apparently spends 24 years of his life in a coma

That's gotta be pretty shitty

It is, sleep is nice and all but too much isn't really that swell

 

[Hands of Stone]

Imagine if Skull Face was working with the real Big Boss, or some shit.

Now that would be something worth doing a ridiculous twist for. You're about to execute Skull Face and Big Boss CQC's the gun from your hand. Aw shit, here comes the Big Bad.

Yooo, I like this idea. Basically I've read about 10 or more theories on here which blows the actual story away. Kojima needed some editors and more writers.

 

[Chariot]

For what it's worth, Ishmael's performance in the hospital is the first time I really felt like I was witnessing the legendary charismatic Big Boss. Especially when he goes "I'll run interference" and jumps off the stairway shooting his gun sideways. The same way Solid Snake didn't feel like a legendary hero until viewed through a third person lens in MGS2.

This game needed more Big Boss. The Venom twist is fine. Good or even great. But this is about Big Boss... we needed more of him, player character or not.

More "Phantom" appearances of Ishmael would've been nice. Imaging him popping out of nowhere in when Venom is in trouble, giving him hinds or a hand and then vanishing again as soon as you bat your eyes. As the game would go on he would appear less often until he just don't apppear at all anymore. The player could ask himself longer and more concrete what the hell that is. Phantom Pain, Psycho Mantis or a real person. Would go hand in hand with the Paz reveal.

In story BB would just watch a bit longer over Venom, making sure he doesn't die soon and then as he sees that he manages then leaves.

 

[Ether_Snake]

He is MGS6's Big Boss.

 

[Jarmel]

Wait, how does it make sense that SF has to torture Paz to get Zero's location, but when he has it, he mails him a pin and Zero is like "Neat!" instead of "How did you get my address??".

Because Kojima.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Wait, how does it make sense that SF has to torture Paz to get Zero's location, but when he has it, he mails him a pin and Zero is like "Neat!" instead of "How did you get my address??".

He could've ensured such a desired thing would end up in Zero's hands I think. He was a Cipher higher up, must've had some connections that could bring something to Zero eventually.

Zero wasn't surprised someone from his own group could send him something anyway.

 

[Ether_Snake]

He could've ensured such a desired thing would end up in Zero's hands anyway. He was a Cipher higher up, must've had some connections that could bring something to Zero eventually.

Zero wasn't surprised someone from his own group could send him something anyway.

So why torture Paz to get his location then? All he did was risk having Zero find out what he was up to. Why not just send the pin, especially if it meant so much to Zero? It's so dumb.

 

[Chariot]

He could've ensured such a desired thing would end up in Zero's hands anyway. He was a Cipher higher up, must've had some connections that could bring something to Zero eventually.

Zero wasn't surprised someone from his own group could send him something anyway.

Yes, but... where was the need for Paz in that case? I mean he had fun, but besides that he really needed her to spill the beans about Cipher's location.

 

[NYR94]

This actually pisses me off a lot. Big Boss was ready to fight the entire world, WHOEVER dared to go against MSF, to the bitter end. To me, that particular speech sounded like a commander who was ready for anything, and was encouraging his men to fight alonside him against any enemy that may come.

"Fight alongside me. We will fight the whole world, the times, if necessary".

He was talking to his brothers in arms. His comrades. Not his "subordinates", but his fellow soldiers.

Then MGSV comes around, and Big Boss goes "Whoops! I better hide myself and let this other guy absorb all the gunfire! Good luck man! The whole world will be hunting YOU down!"


Just what the fuck happened? Did the Mother Base destruction transform Big Boss into a gigantic coward?

Yeah, they could have used that as a jumping off point for MGSV where Big Boss became even more and more entrenched in the extreme, twisted "fighting is all I do" mindset. It would fit into one of the themes that was talked about, mainly the never ending cycle of retaliation, violence and death. Big Boss loses his entire base and most of his men, and what does he do? Heads right back into the battlefield because that's all he knows how to do. Portray him as the charismatic leader of Diamond Dogs as they're hunted by Cipher and all their private militias. A commander who will stop at nothing to continue fighting and one who will NEVER leave his fellow soldiers alone. One who rescues child soldiers from one army just to force them into his to fight on his side. None of this "we need to rehab them" nonsense. And one who develops a nuke no matter how much his lieutenants argue against it because he is hell bent on revenge.

We didn't get any of this. The tagline should have been "Men become decent" because Medic Boss was a pretty level-headed, understanding guy. It's seems like Kojima was reluctant to make the main playable character angry and obsessed to the point of being borderline insane so he transferred that obsession to Kaz, which is why he went from being so calm in Peace Walker to Angry Man in TPP. And he neutered Ocelot. Such a cool character relegated to some interrogation scenes and radio chit chat.

I wasn't thrilled with the idea of a Kojima-less MGS game but this ending has left me hoping that someone at Konami has the storytelling ability to tell a good story about Big Boss. He's an interesting character with an actual story arc, and he deserves a better sendoff than he got in this game. Either do that or just start a new story line with all new characters if there needs to be a new MGS game.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Yes, but... where was the need for Paz in that case? I mean he had fun, but besides that he really needed her to spill the beans about Cipher's location.

Kojima.

I wonder if it was so hard to write down a more logical assassination. Like SF said, Zero's weakness that he was so paranoid that no one knew from eachother what they were protecting. So with knowing his exact location he could send someone in or go himself, without others knowing who it would be anyway. And just cap him or poison him in a way it would succeed without having to rely on Zero being careless with an object.

It would also justify Paz' torture. As it stands it feels as if there could've been other ways to send him a simple gift.

 

[Formosa]

How do you go back to the mother base? lol

 

[itwasTuesday]

So why exactly would a goddamn medic be as badass as Big Bawse? And why would his voice be exactly the same? This is so silly. Man I'm just going to have to forget this game has a story.

Medics voice was just deeper Keifer in gz

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Kojima.

I wonder if it was so hard to write down a more logical assassination. Like SF said, Zero's weakness that he was so paranoid that no one knew from eachother what they were protecting. So with knowing his exact location he could send someone in or go himself, without others knowing who it would be anyway. And just cap him or poison him in a way it would succeed without having to rely on Zero being careless with an object.

It would also justify Paz' torture. As it stands it feels as if there could've been other ways to send him a simple gift.

Considering Skull Face was the commander of the phantom of the FOX unit, and was trusted enough to know what the pin was referring to, I don't think Zero necessarily suspected him. It would be like Boss himself giving him a visit. Like, "I don't know how you found me, but what do you want" sort of thing. Turns out Skull Face is a straight up villain. Doubt Zero saw that coming.

 

[brau]

How do you go back to the mother base? lol

go to the ACC (chopper outside of the mission). open your iDROID, go to the right TAB that reads missions. Choose the bottom option that reads "Return to Motherbase"

 

[Alienous]

How do you go back to the mother base? lol

In the helicopter get your iDroid out, go to the right-most tab (by clicking R1) and at the bottom of the list there should be an option to 'Return to Motherbase'.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

How do you go back to the mother base? lol

You select the option from your iDroid when your in your helicopter deciding where to go.

Your Mother Base morale must be insanely low. Your troops miss your beatings.

 

[Ishida]

Yeah, they could have used that as a jumping off point for MGSV where Big Boss became even more and more entrenched in the extreme, twisted "fighting is all I do" mindset. It would fit into one of the themes that was talked about, mainly the never ending cycle of retaliation, violence and death. Big Boss loses his entire base and most of his men, and what does he do? Heads right back into the battlefield because that's all he knows how to do. Portray him as the charismatic leader of Diamond Dogs as they're hunted by Cipher and all their private militias. A commander who will stop at nothing to continue fighting and one who will NEVER leave his fellow soldiers alone. One who rescues child soldiers from one army just to force them into his to fight on his side. None of this "we need to rehab them" nonsense. And one who develops a nuke no matter how much his lieutenants argue against it because he is hell bent on revenge.

We didn't get any of this. The tagline should have been "Men become decent" because Medic Boss was a pretty level-headed, understanding guy. It's seems like Kojima was reluctant to make the main playable character angry and obsessed to the point of being borderline insane so he transferred that obsession to Kaz, which is why he went from being so calm in Peace Walker to Angry Man in TPP. And he neutered Ocelot. Such a cool character relegated to some interrogation scenes and radio chit chat.

I wasn't thrilled with the idea of a Kojima-less MGS game but this ending has left me hoping that someone at Konami has the storytelling ability to tell a good story about Big Boss. He's an interesting character with an actual story arc, and he deserves a better sendoff than he got in this game. Either do that or just start a new story line with all new characters if there needs to be a new MGS game.

I agree 100%. A game made of wasted opportunities.

Someone else here mentioned that having a young Sniper Wolf interact with Quiet and D-Dog in order to form her future identity as a wolf-themed sharpshooter would've been amazing. Cheesy, sure, but at least it would've been SOMETHING.

Instead of the NOTHING we got.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

You know for all this talk of Skull Face and Venom and Zero.... I think everyone has forgotten our fallen comrade, the real MVP of the MGSV saga.

RIP Morpho.

 

[Alienous]

Considering Skull Face was the commander of the phantom of the FOX unit, and was trusted enough to know what the pin was referring to, I don't think Zero necessarily suspected him. It would be like Boss himself giving him a visit. Like, "I don't know how you found me, but what do you want" sort of thing. Turns out Skull Face is a straight up villain. Doubt Zero saw that coming.

Nah, Zero's paranoia and delivering orders 'by proxy' doesn't coincide with that. He really should have said "Hey, if you ever contact me at this address again I'm going to have you killed'.

But Skull Face's plan relied on Zero not being too pissed and having fumbly old man fingers.

 

[fastmower]

You know for all this talk of Skull Face and Venom and Zero.... I think everyone has forgotten our fallen comrade, the real MVP of the MGSV saga.

RIP Morpho.

He flew so many missions. A true hero.

 

[Einchy]

Solid Snake kills Venom (The Phantom) in Metal Gear.
Solid Snake defeats Big Boss (The real one, Naked Snake) in Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake.

The real Big Boss stays in a coma from 1999 to 2014, and goes to meet and make peace with his last surviving son before dying.

All those comas were his way of making it so he couldn't possibly make more MGS games.

"I can't make more because we covered all of his times not in a coma, Konami!"

Kojima fired himself.

 

[Formosa]

go to the ACC (chopper outside of the mission). open your iDROID, go to the right TAB that reads missions. Choose the bottom option that reads "Return to Motherbase"

You select the option from your iDroid when your in your helicopter deciding where to go.

Your Mother Base morale must be insanely low. Your troops miss your beatings.

In the helicopter get your iDroid out, go to the right-most tab (by clicking R1) and at the bottom of the list there should be an option to 'Return to Motherbase'.

Cools guys, but when I opened my iDruid I don't see Return to Motherbase. Maybe it's because like brau siad that I have to the ACC? How do I find the ACC on the map? What do you mean by chopper outside the mission?

Ya it's gonna be my first time going back to the base lol. I am at mission 8.

 

[Alienous]

Cools guys, but when I opened my iDruid I don't see Return to Motherbase. Maybe it's because like brau siad that I have to the ACC? How do I find the ACC on the map? What do you mean by chopper outside the mission?

Ya it's gonna be my first time going back to the base lol. I am at mission 8.

Your ACC is your helicopter.

Use the |OT| thread for questions.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I agree 100%. A game made of wasted opportunities.

Someone else here mentioned that having a young Sniper Wolf interact with Quiet and D-Dog in order to form her future identity as a wolf-themed sharpshooter would've been amazing. Cheesy, sure, but at least it would've been SOMETHING.

Instead of the NOTHING we got.

I will agree on the missed opportunity of not having Sniper Wolf.

She talks about being trained by Big Boss and calling him "Saladin" it would have made sense to have her here. It could have been the body double and I wouldn't have mind.

I feel like the game we all wanted would have taken another year.

 

[WrenchNinja]

it has always bothered me that they made zero be someone who really believed in the boss

like where was that in mgs3

i don't remember him being that devoted to her enough to to try fulfill her dreams

when mgs4 brought this up in act 3 i was just dumbfounded

 

[Berserker976]

I agree 100%. A game made of wasted opportunities.

Someone else here mentioned that having a young Sniper Wolf interact with Quiet and D-Dog in order to form her future identity as a wolf-themed sharpshooter would've been amazing. Cheesy, sure, but at least it would've been SOMETHING.

Instead of the NOTHING we got.

Now there's a tagline:

MGSV: It should have at least been SOMETHING.

 

[nbnt]

For what it's worth, Ishmael's performance in the hospital is the first time I really felt like I was witnessing the legendary charismatic Big Boss. Especially when he goes "I'll run interference" and jumps off the stairway shooting his gun sideways. The same way Solid Snake didn't feel like a legendary hero until viewed through a third person lens in MGS2.

This game needed more Big Boss. The Venom twist is fine. Good or even great. But this is about Big Boss... we needed more of him, player character or not.

But the first few minutes of him were terrible, it showed an amateur, the way he jumped on Quiet.. Ugh, and then started grabbing and throwing random stuff at her.. The real BB would've snapped her neck in a split second.

When I started the Truth episode I was like "Ohhh shit the bandaged dude must be the real BB" and then the jumping and stumbling happened and I was like "Nah, weak, brah, weak. That ain't no Big Boss".

 

[brau]

Cools guys, but when I opened my iDruid I don't see Return to Motherbase. Maybe it's because like brau siad that I have to the ACC? How do I find the ACC on the map? What do you mean by chopper outside the mission?

Ya it's gonna be my first time going back to the base lol. I am at mission 8.

Extract by chopper... once you leave the mission area or world... you'll be returned to the ACC.

 

[RK9039]

For what it's worth, Ishmael's performance in the hospital is the first time I really felt like I was witnessing the legendary charismatic Big Boss. Especially when he goes "I'll run interference" and jumps off the stairway shooting his gun sideways. The same way Solid Snake didn't feel like a legendary hero until viewed through a third person lens in MGS2.

This game needed more Big Boss. The Venom twist is fine. Good or even great. But this is about Big Boss... we needed more of him, player character or not.

Yeah I really loved that about the intro, and the intro in general was just awesome. Easily the best opening to a MGS game I think.

 

[Formosa]

Your ACC is your helicopter.

Use the |OT| thread for questions.

You mean call for pick up (helicopter)?

 

[Ishida]

Now there's a tagline:

MGSV: It should have at least been SOMETHING.

Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Nothing.