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[-Stryder-]

I have a quick question. After you watch Huey kill Skull face and finish the cut-scene is there something in the credit roll that I may have missed because I skipped the credits after that cut-scene that ended Chapter 1.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Sn4ke_911 does not realizes that The Witcher 3, a game bigger, better and massive than MGS5 had a dev cycle of 4 years and $81 million budget.

I think konami should know better than to let their creative ambitious director be the games producer as well. I also think that japanese devs have fallen to the wayside and this games dev cycle could have been expedited, costed less and been a richer fuller experience with a 3rd chapter if they'd adopt an established engine.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

MGS3 never had a big twist. It had a straight forward story. One of the reasons why it's considered the best in the series.

Uhhhh, did you not watch the last cutscene when EVE reveals the entire real motivation of the entire mission and what The Boss did?

 

[sexyelder]

Something tells me Hayter is somewhat pleased about all this. He will always be Big Boss/Solid Snake

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Five years may be normal for total development time, but studios don't go five years without releasing games. Studios work on different titles and have proper team splits so they're releasing games every year or two years.

GTAV is not something you want to compare yourself to unless you think MGSV is going to sell 50 million copies. They also had Red Dead Redemption in the meantime. Bethesda has Fallout and Elder Scrolls. Peace Walker and Rising are not the same.

Also Kojima didn't finish his open world game in five years. Are you completely unwilling to accept that someone being given a deadline and budget and failing to meet it is not their fault?

Kojima is not very experienced with open world games, in fact this was both for the developer and publisher the very first open world game so why only blame Kojima for it? do you have any idea how hard it must be to come up with what is now the best stealth action game ever made? like he tweeted and said plenty of times, this is a game with tons of mechanics, gadgets and stuff that need to work etc. so to implement all this and make it work TAKES TIME. It's not like Kojima had all those ideas in a few hours. The whole mother base concept etc. All that stuff TAKES TIME and this is why i blame Konami because they didn't gave him the time he needed.

They should have said in the beginning no no an open world game takes too long bla bla you make your cinematic single player game and that's it but they didn't so again i can only blame Konami for it, for underestimating this project.

 

[TwoDurans]

MGS3 never had a big twist. It had a straight forward story. One of the reasons why it's considered the best in the series.

Dude, what? Did you play MGS3? And if you did, did you finish it? The ending is one of the biggest twists in the MGS franchise.

 

[Toa TAK]

MGS:V ending in a nutshell
This belongs here.

So glad I wasn't the only one who immediately though of Total Recall.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I think konami should know better than to let their creative ambitious director be the games producer as well. I also think that japanese devs have fallen to the wayside and this games dev cycle could have been expedited, costed less and been a richer fuller experience with a 3rd chapter if they'd adopt an established engine.

If this game ran on Unreal 4 we'd have a lot more game.

 

[Death Metalist]

Uhhhh, did you not watch the last cutscene when EVE reveals the entire real motivation of the entire mission and what The Boss did?

Yes and to top it off, Ocelot was triple crossing or some shit like that lol.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

If this game ran on Unreal 4 we'd have a lot more game.

Word

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

If this game ran on Unreal 4 we'd have a lot more game.

Can Unreal 4 do open world?

 

[WrenchNinja]

Kojima is not very experienced with open world games, in fact this was both for the developer and publisher the very first open world game so why only blame Kojima for it? do you have any idea how hard it must be to come up with what is now the best stealth action game ever made? like he tweeted and said plenty of times, this is a game with tons of mechanics, gadgets and stuff that need to work etc. so to implement all this and make it work TAKES TIME. It's not like Kojima had all those ideas in a few hours. The whole mother base concept etc. All that stuff TAKES TIME and this is why i blame Konami because they didn't gave him the time he needed.

They gave him more than enough time. You're being ridiculous.

 

[snake_eater_raiden]

I think konami should know better than to let their creative ambitious director be the games producer as well. I also think that japanese devs have fallen to the wayside and this games dev cycle could have been expedited, costed less and been a richer fuller experience with a 3rd chapter if they'd adopt an established engine.

Uhhhh, did you not watch the last cutscene when EVE reveals the entire real motivation of the entire mission and what The Boss did?

Dude, what? Did you play MGS3? And if you did, did you finish it? The ending is one of the biggest twists in the MGS franchise.

Yes and to top it off, Ocelot was triple crossing or some shit like that lol.

What I meant was that there was no bullshit body double story in MGS3. It was a straight forward story and easy to understand,

 

[crazyrabbits]

Stop putting all the fucking blame on Konami, this is getting so old. Every game has cut content and this game is fucking massive and has been being developed for several years, not to mention we saw these scenes in the original trailers. Things change, it's the way it's always been and it's not all Konami's fault.

Quiet is STILL in the area she's found in in that trailer.
So are the child soldiers.
Snake STILL falls to knees just in a different location and the location wasn't even cut.

Christ. STUFF GETS CUT. Kojima is incredibly ambitious and I wouldn't be surprised if a fuck ton of stuff got cut from Snake Eater too. If you want to complain about the thinned out narrative then blame Kojima's decision for an open-world, you cannot deliver a classic narrative-driven MGS game in an open-world end of, unless you use several bottlenecks that restrict the player. In fact, he does this twice at OKB Zero and the Industrial Zone.

Yes. There probably was a point where Konami said "Get this out the fucking door now" but loads of publishers all round the world do it. I'm sorry that Kojima couldn't keep making MGSV for another 3 years but that's just life.

Not exactly.

Usually, when a game has massive pieces chopped out of its ending, it's very easy to figure out that development got FUBAR'd. See Xenogears or Mass Effect 3. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that major pieces of the game either got shifted around or chopped out in development.

Mission 51 is obviously the biggest example. They got far enough to almost-fully render all of the character cutscenes, which isn't something you do when you cut out content. This isn't like a movie, where you make 10 takes of a scene and decide it doesn't work. It's far more intensive to spend months on a setpiece that has to be cut out.

Camp Omega Redux is another. We know that they were promising that content a year before launch, planning something crazy (and repeatedly telling people about it). Now it's gone without a trace.

The fragmented nature of "Chapter 2" (and how little content storywise it has, as opposed to the remixed mission) and half-assed implementation of Mission 46 (tutorial prompts and all) highly suggests that development was rushed in the last few months. The vast majority of content seems to have been removed for no discernible reason - the hints with Paz's faded eyes leading to nothing, not resolving the Eli plotline, several cutscenes in Africa that never appear (despite the presence of charred bodies near the mine in Mission 18), lots of trailer scenes that are missing or entirely different (Quiet's introduction is not the same as what's shown in that trailer).

 

[Alienous]

Kojima is not very experienced with open world games, in fact this was both for the developer and publisher the very first open world game so why only blame Kojima for it? do you have any idea how hard it must be to come up with what is now the best stealth action game ever made? like he tweeted and said plenty of times, this is a game with tons of mechanics, gadgets and stuff that need to work etc. so to implement all this and make it work TAKES TIME. It's not like Kojima had all those ideas in a few hours. The whole mother base concept etc. All that stuff TAKES TIME and this is why i blame Konami because they didn't gave him the time he needed.

They should have said in the beginning no no an open world game takes too long bla bla you make your cinematic single player game and that's it but they didn't so again i can only blame Konami for it, for underestimating this project.

Witcher 2 -> Witcher 3 took 4 years and was going from a linear (hub-based) game to an open world.

 

[ZeroX03]

Kojima is not very experienced with open world games, in fact this was both for the developer and publisher the very first open world game so why only blame Kojima for it? do you have any idea how hard it must be to come up with what is now the best stealth action game ever made? like he tweeted and said plenty of times, this is a game with tons of mechanics, gadgets and stuff that need to work etc. so to implement all this and make it work TAKES TIME. It's not like Kojima had all those ideas in a few hours. The whole mother base concept etc. All that stuff TAKES TIME and this is why i blame Konami because they didn't gave him the time he needed.

Nobody is only blaming Kojima for it, but the fact that you can't seem to admit that he's partly at fault speaks volumes to your bias here.

If Kojima's scope and plans were too much for five years of development and $80 million dollars, he should have scaled back. That's his call to make. If he doesn't know how to make an open world game, that's actually his failing.

They should have said in the beginning no no an open world game takes too long bla bla you make your cinematic single player game and that's it but they didn't so again i can only blame Konami for it, for underestimating this project.

You're very lucky your tag doesn't read:

If I ever post something in English which I don't understand, please BAN me.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Can Unreal 4 do open world?

I don't think the game had to be open world either. Most of the missions are segmented into various outposts and the few guided experiences we do have are superior to their more open counterparts. Seeing as how we go Chopper -> Mission area -> Chopper again there's no reason the entire world has to be loaded at once. I did not explore once during the game.

I actually feel like the open world aspect hurt this game a lot and it could have been largely the same thing by segmenting its mission areas, Camp Omega style.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

What I meant was that there was no bullshit body double story in MGS3. It was a straight forward story and easy to understand,

Ok but now you're moving the goal post.

Every MGS has a twist that change the user's perception of the story and possibly previous games, even the most straight forward game MGS/MGS3 had a twist ending that changed our understanding of motivations and past actions.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

They gave him more than enough time. You're being ridiculous.

Again 7 years isn't really that much time if you think they had to create a brand new engine from scratch and also there wasn't a little bird who flew to Kojima and told him in an hour about all those great ideas for the game.

 

[keltickennedy]

It actually does grow if you raise your 'demon' points up.



If Kojima had a habit of shipping incomplete games, I'd agree with you. But Konami probably forced him to rush out the release. I mean, things like the Lisa decoy which were in the game at some point were removed for no reason, except for most likely exec meddling.

I thought the Lisa decoy is in the game? I figured it was just the very last thing in the decoy branch and takes very high R&D and a specific item to unlock.

 

[Arion]

I can understand why people want to give Kojima a special pass. Dude makes games like no one else. But at a certain point video games are a business and you can't blame companies for wanting to make a profit. Whatever market research they did probably told them that there won't be a profit if they kept putting more time and money into this. Decisions like cutting content on releasing early is most likely not out of spite but in order to break even. Given Kojima's perfectionist mentality he has to take at least some of the blame.

 

[JayEH]

Something tells me Hayter is somewhat pleased about all this. He will always be Big Boss/Solid Snake

Except Kiefer does play Big Boss in this game as well

 

[sexyelder]

Except Kiefer does play Big Boss in this game as well

For like 2 minutes

 

[Scotia]

Again 7 years isn't really that much time if you think they had to create a brand new engine from scratch and also there wasn't a little bird who flew to Kojima and told him in an hour about all those great ideas for the game.

lol

 

[snake_eater_raiden]

Ok but now you're moving the goal post.

Every MGS has a twist that change the user's perception of the story and possibly previous games, even the most straight forward game MGS/MGS3 had a twist ending that changed our understanding of motivations and past actions.

My praise for MGS3 does not mean am undermining MGS2 and MGS1. All am saying is that after MGS3, Kojima lost his mind and started writing crap stories which made no sense. I can give MGS4 some benefit of doubt since he had to answer stuff from MGS2. But the twist in MGS5 is absurd and the biggest BS I have ever seen.

I also need to clarify that am not happy with the story in MGS5. I am amazed by the gameplay though

 

[Edag88]

Something tells me Hayter is somewhat pleased about all this. He will always be Big Boss/Solid Snake

Except Kiefer does play Big Boss in this game as well

and Ground Zeroes.

 

[Dick Justice]

Also where the fuck are those scenes??

Something similar appears in gameplay form during episode 13.

Looks like a shot made specifically for a trailer, just to introduce the character. Similar to how Huey's part of the E3 2013 trailer uses a different camera angle than the final game.

It's a location-swapped version of chapter 51.

Just a trailer-specific shot. A cut-down version appears after the quarantine mission. The skull version is here just to lead into the Skull Face allusion.

.

 

[sexyelder]

and Ground Zeroes.

;_; give me a fucking reboot

 

[crazyrabbits]

I thought the Lisa decoy is in the game? I figured it was just the very last thing in the decoy branch and takes very high R&D and a specific item to unlock.

There's nothing in the guide about it, and it doesn't require any key items to max out. Just a high R&D level, which is about the same as any other late-game upgrade.

 

[snake_eater_raiden]

lol

In those 7 years:

1. New consoles launched
2. Uncharted and The Last of Us came and went
3. Last gen consoles became history
4. 7 E3s happened.
5. Call of Duty and GTA 5 sold billions.
6. Wii U flopped

And Kojima was unable to deliver a single game.

A true visionary...sure.

 

[Noisepurge]

I don't think the game had to be open world either. Most of the missions are segmented into various outposts and the few guided experiences we do have are superior to their more open counterparts. Seeing as how we go Chopper -> Mission area -> Chopper again there's no reason the entire world has to be loaded at once. I did not explore once during the game.

I actually feel like the open world aspect hurt this game a lot and it could have been largely the same thing by segmenting its mission areas, Camp Omega style.

True, could have been done like Battlefield Bad Company 1 did it, wide open spaces sure, you could flank a base entirely but not go too far.

 

[Dick Justice]

In those 7 years:

1. New consoles launched
2. Uncharted and The Last of Us came and went
3. Last gen consoles became history
4. 7 E3s happened.
5. Call of Duty and GTA 5 sold billions.
6. Wii U flopped

And Kojima was unable to deliver a single game.

A true visionary...sure.

ORLY?

 

[keltickennedy]

Except Kiefer does play Big Boss in this game as well

I was also wondering that at the end. Like, holy shit...the #teamhayters are going to be right!! Though, I think it was intentional to give the two characters the same voice. Fans would of picked up on it instantly in the opening Hospital scene. Still....would of been cool to switch it to Hayter in "Truth" opening when players replayed it.

EDIT: Well that would of been even more confusing actually since he also voiced Big Boss in Ground Zeroes. lol. Nevermind.

 

[snake_eater_raiden]

Except Kiefer does play Big Boss in this game as well

lol. Kojima wasted him. I am really glad Hayter is not a part of this story...he would have criticized it to hell lol.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I don't think the game had to be open world either. Most of the missions are segmented into various outposts and the few guided experiences we do have are superior to their more open counterparts. Seeing as how we go Chopper -> Mission area -> Chopper again there's no reason the entire world has to be loaded at once. I did not explore once during the game.

I actually feel like the open world aspect hurt this game a lot and it could have been largely the same thing by segmenting its mission areas.

Now this is true.

Honestly Kojima should have simply had large levels that featured multiple access points for deployment and should have left the open world nature of the game on the cutting room floor.

Cause lets be honest, the game isn't really that open world, Afghanistan has a considerable amount of funnel points that prevent multiple entry points to objectives.

I mean shit, the best level of the game is Skullface's compound in mission 30 and that's linear as all hell for an entry points, but with multiple ways to get around the base to the end of it without ever being seen.

 

[snake_eater_raiden]

ORLY?

That is true, that is 2010. He started working on Fox Engine in 2008. If I am being a bit relaxed, lets not count 2008-2010. That leaves 5 years. My point still stands

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

My praise for MGS3 does not mean am undermining MGS2 and MGS1. All am saying is that after MGS3, Kojima lost his mind and started writing crap stories which made no sense. I can give MGS4 some benefit of doubt since he had to answer stuff from MGS2. But the twist in MGS5 is absurd and the biggest BS I have ever seen.

I also need to clarify that am not happy with the story in MGS5. I am amazed by the gameplay though

Yea, MGS has been really bad post MGS3, and there are a few things I could contribute to that but I would rather not get into it again.

Even with the twist of MGSV, the story is pretty weak and suffered major pacing issues for the sake of padding. Honestly the twist itself works in MGSV, there are plenty of hints that support it and people are only mad that it devalues the legend of Big Boss, which I think is fine.

 

[Dick Justice]

That is true, that is 2010. He started working on Fox Engine in 2008. If I am being a bit relaxed, lets not count 2008-2010. That leaves 5 years. My point still stands

5 years to make a game is certainly on the long end, but not as ridiculous as you make it sound. Especially when the resulting gameplay is so good. Do you really think that delivering a game as quickly as possible is the main qualifier for being called a "visionary"?

 

[aliengmr]

I'm pretty much an outsider to MGS, having only played the first and second one a long time ago. I didn't expect the story to be amazing either. I understood the story's sequence of events, but I just didn't care at all. I was kept on the outside looking in the whole time. So by the time the final reveal came, I stopped trying to give a fuck.

My biggest problem is that the story and how it was presented really did nothing to help someone like me understand what the fuck is going on. This is why introducing new characters is important, so that people new to the story have someone to relate to. Seems absolutely crucial for this story in particular. Quiet was, or should have been, that character, the one who relates the story to people who are unfamiliar. But she's mute, and to add insult to injury, she is taken out completely at the end.

They didn't have to present a story that welcomes those unfamiliar, but it would have been nice. The gameplay is fantastic, I just didn't care about any of the established characters. Quiet wasn't an amazing character to begin with but she was my only way to relate to the story and characters, so when she got treated like shit that was translated to me in a "fuck you" kind of way.

Spoiler

And I didn't get to use that Battle Gear, so fuck that. I felt an awful lot like that guy Quiet stabs in the dick a bunch of times at the end of this game.

 

[snake_eater_raiden]

5 years to make a game is certainly on the long end, but not as ridiculous as you make it sound. Especially when the resulting gameplay is so good.

Read my post above. The gameplay is amazing. My criticism is towards the story

 

[ZeroX03]

And Kojima was unable to deliver a single game.

Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes. He produced MGS HD, ZoE HD, Castlevania LoS and Snake Eater 3D too.

Spent a bunch of time on Rising too. Seems like the argument is not that he failed with one game, but that he spread himself too thin and let the big fish get away.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Since MGS4, Kojima Productions delivered Peace Walker and MGS3D.... as well as, you know, a cross gen, multiplatform engine and a failed vision for Rising.

Building an engine is not easy, so give the team some credit here. It was never going to be an easy or quick job. It's not like they were sitting around with their heads up their asses for 7 years.

 

[Liamc723]

do you have any idea how hard it must be to come up with what is now the best stealth action game ever made?

That's a good joke.

 

[sexyelder]

Since Kojima was a guy who loved western media, they should just have a weeaboo reboot the series, to balance it out? Amiright?

 

[snake_eater_raiden]

Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes. He produced MGS HD, ZoE HD, Castlevania LoS and Snake Eater 3D too.

lol. Please read my post about PW above.

Rest, those are not really games developed by him. Ground Zeroes was a money grabbing joke orchestrated by both Konami and Kojima since they wanted to fund TPP further. That was supposed to be a part of TPP. GZ is a demo at best.

 

[ZeroX03]

lol. Please read my post about PW above.

Rest, those are not really games developed by him. Ground Zeroes was a money grabbing joke orchestrated by both Konami and Kojima since they wanted to fund TPP further. That was supposed to be a part of TPP. GZ is a demo at best.

It doesn't matter if the games weren't developed by him, he obviously put a lot of time into them. Maybe more than he should have. This is the guy who feels the need to be involved in every step of the marketing and edit the trailers himself.

I also don't see how GZ fits as part of TPP when the prologue was clearly the tutorial. If they were ever intended to be part of the same product it was many years ago.

 

[Arion]

Sn4ke_911 does not realizes that The Witcher 3, a game bigger, better and massive than MGS5 had a dev cycle of 4 years and $81 million budget.

The cost of making a game in Poland and making a game in Tokyo are very different so you can't really make that comparison.

As for the next Metal Gear game, I don't think it should be a prequel, sequel or an inter-quel. It should be set after MGS4 but with entirely new characters. Solid Snake's story is done, Big boss's story is done, bring in someone totally new. A new super soldier on an infiltration mission with a whole new support team backing him/her up and a whole new shady organisation to take down.

Most likely though it will just be a pachinko game.

 

[keltickennedy]

I'm pretty much an outsider to MGS, having only played the first and second one a long time ago. I didn't expect the story to be amazing either. I understood the story's sequence of events, but I just didn't care at all. I was kept on the outside looking in the whole time. So by the time the final reveal came, I stopped trying to give a fuck.

My biggest problem is that the story and how it was presented really did nothing to help someone like me understand what the fuck is going on. This is why introducing new characters is important, so that people new to the story have someone to relate to. Seems absolutely crucial for this story in particular. Quiet was, or should have been, that character, the one who relates the story to people who are unfamiliar. But she's mute, and to add insult to injury, she is taken out completely at the end.

They didn't have to present a story that welcomes those unfamiliar, but it would have been nice. The gameplay is fantastic, I just didn't care about any of the established characters. Quiet wasn't an amazing character to begin with but she was my only way to relate to the story and characters, so when she got treated like shit that was translated to me in a "fuck you" kind of way.

Spoiler

And I didn't get to use that Battle Gear, so fuck that. I felt an awful lot like that guy Quiet stabs in the dick a bunch of times at the end of this game.

Same here...and I have played every entry multiple times. To me it seemed like most of the decent story stuff ended up having to do with Quiet. Though that also didn't pull me in at all either. I just couldn't get into those scenes....like look at her! I couldn't take anything seriously. lol.

The gameplay is what kept me going and still playing the hell out of it.

 

[snake_eater_raiden]

5 years to make a game is certainly on the long end, but not as ridiculous as you make it sound. Especially when the resulting gameplay is so good. Do you really think that delivering a game as quickly as possible is the main qualifier for being called a "visionary"?

Kojima or for that matter any developer can take 20 years to build a game. If that game is unfinished, that in my book the developer has failed miserably. In this case, Kojima's fall is hard.

He promised players many things. The emotional impact of TPP being the last MGS game by him was high. Expectations are high.

Instead he tries to do a reverse of MGS2...and fails miserably. I see many fans claiming he is the best story teller, a visionary etc. Truth is that there are many other AAA and Indie devs who are doing a better job ALONE. Who dont even have massive funding and come up with fantastic gripping stories.

 

[Lingitiz]

5 years to make a game is certainly on the long end, but not as ridiculous as you make it sound. Especially when the resulting gameplay is so good. Do you really think that delivering a game as quickly as possible is the main qualifier for being called a "visionary"?

I wouldn't say Koji Pro was very efficient in the way they used their time or money. Granted, multiplatform development (especially across as many platforms they released on) is very difficult, but the fact they built an engine from the ground up that will only be used for one game, built a brand new studio for just this game, and still did not end up finishing on time reeks of excessive spending in areas that didn't really need it.

Anyone just going out and blaming Konami for the fact that this game unfinished should understand that the blame is on both sides. Konami should have given Kojima the time to finish the game. But from their perspective the idea of this game releasing in 2016 seems insane. Kojima should have been more frugal and efficient in development with the time he was given.

I mean, why the fuck did Ground Zeroes even happen? Not many developers need to sell a paid demo to keep development going on their game.

edit: whoops, forgot about Pro Evo.