Ocelot is cool with Big Boss' plans while Miller is whiny because he didn't know about the real Big Boss and now supports Venom to stop Big Boss. (I just read it up again - didn't pay attention)
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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
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Ocelot is cool with Big Boss' plans while Miller is whiny because he didn't know about the real Big Boss and now supports Venom to stop Big Boss. (I just read it up again - didn't pay attention)
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I hope Kojima didn't spent too much money on licensing the music in the game...
Why? It's just a computer.
MissCauthon
Member
OMFG!!! that video where they change baby DDog for Ocelot when he licks snakes face in motherbase. I'm dying of laughter!!! It's killing me haha. A real diamond in the rough!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=37&v=CyOaRbfogXo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=37&v=CyOaRbfogXo
Because its like he is loading up MG1 I guess.
No, he's loading up the encrypted mission data on a normal computer that was around in 1984.
Raven Prime
Member
Why would he load the MG mission into a computer?
Except that it clearly makes the MSX loading noise when loading the tape. Just like the classified intel tape in GZ btw.
But it makes that noise when loading any program, right? He's not actually just gonna sit there and play Metal Gear haha.
Vyse The Legend
Member
While the ending twist is telegraphed throughout the game (the DNA being different, the Boss AI pod being unsure if you're actually Jack, etc.), I still thought it was all executed superbly. I could've done without having to crawl through the hospital again, but meh.
The Paz story arc, especially, was exceptional, a major highlight for me since I thought the very notion of her being in the game at all was ridiculous.
It's a bummer knowing that a lot of content was cut, but I'm confident some of it will make its way out via DLC. This is definitely a game screaming for a Substance/Subsistence version.
The Paz story arc, especially, was exceptional, a major highlight for me since I thought the very notion of her being in the game at all was ridiculous.
It's a bummer knowing that a lot of content was cut, but I'm confident some of it will make its way out via DLC. This is definitely a game screaming for a Substance/Subsistence version.
So is Venom Snake actually supposed to know he's not Big Boss or is he amnesiac or something? Kinda confused now.
Also I miss the old days of MGS plots, like MGS1 and MGS3 namely. They had crazy twists and shit in them but in the end they resolved themselves and made some degree of sense. MGSV is a pacing mess....
Also I miss the old days of MGS plots, like MGS1 and MGS3 namely. They had crazy twists and shit in them but in the end they resolved themselves and made some degree of sense. MGSV is a pacing mess....
If Konami think they can make some money with it, sure.
How though, there was zero build-up and the game just dumps the info.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I mean....since the first 10 minutes you're in game it's telling you 'Hey you're not the real Big Boss' except at that point you don't know what to look for.
Nemesis_
Member
MGS5 isn't a mess it's just that it's overall twist and story adds nothing to the overall canon. You could argue it's entirely self contained. Whereas every other game has widespread ramifications to what happens in them.
Big Boss wasn't Big Boss in MG is interesting but nothing changes. He ends up dying, the real Big Boss ends up stepping in. Nothing is changed and nothing is shocking.
It's It's also an unnecessary change that imo just muddles the story even further. Who was the Saladin that saved Sniper Wolf? Was it Venom or was it the actual Big Boss? Who saved Grey Fox?
If anything this twist creates more questions than answers. I really wish either Kojima could finish the game (because let's be real the story is still VERY unfinished) or he changed it completely so it actually properly bridged the gaps.
Big Boss wasn't Big Boss in MG is interesting but nothing changes. He ends up dying, the real Big Boss ends up stepping in. Nothing is changed and nothing is shocking.
It's It's also an unnecessary change that imo just muddles the story even further. Who was the Saladin that saved Sniper Wolf? Was it Venom or was it the actual Big Boss? Who saved Grey Fox?
If anything this twist creates more questions than answers. I really wish either Kojima could finish the game (because let's be real the story is still VERY unfinished) or he changed it completely so it actually properly bridged the gaps.
Foreshadowing is somewhat different from build-up. The big 'twist' moment is handled in an extremely anti-climatic fashion.
Whoa, there's full weapon customization if I rescue the Legendary Gunsmith three times? Are you serious?
There's like 3 games of content in this thing, I'm 45 hours in and I haven't unlocked FOBs or weapon customization. I can't think of any other game that's done this since Final Fantasy 13. But TPP actually does it well.
There's like 3 games of content in this thing, I'm 45 hours in and I haven't unlocked FOBs or weapon customization. I can't think of any other game that's done this since Final Fantasy 13. But TPP actually does it well.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Probably Venom for both because unlike Big Boss Venom is actually a good dude.
Nemesis_
Member
What is there that doesn't really make much sense in MGS1?
I suppose this makes sense. But it's not definitive and it shits on Big Boss's legacy.
Exactly. I appreciate what they're trying to do I guess, but it's just weird. If it was somehow tied in to the other games (like Big Boss's remains in MGS4 actually being Venom Snake instead of Solidus) that would be kind of cool. But as it is now it's pretty obvious they just made this up after MGS4 and Peace Walker for the sake of coming up with a crazy twist.
And it is a crazy twist indeed, it's just that how good a plot twist is is directly proportionate to how far back the evidence of it goes. So when they just spring it like that, it's not very earth-shattering.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Guys, if I do the last story mission again, will the game give me another batch of S++ soldiers ?
Raven Prime
Member
Well part of it is obviously a homage to MG. It could however actually be an encrypted mission briefing from Big Boss I suppose. For me the 4th wall breaking is more about the allusion that you the player are the legend behind Big Boss. The MSX loading just adds a layer.
Vyse The Legend
Member
Kojima's contract runs through the year, and the staff still works there, just under a different name. I'm not saying it's a guarantee, but it's possible.
When he wakes up in the hospital, he doesn't know. He isn't suppose to know. He believes he is the real person. At some point in the future, the real BB sends him the tape that explains it to him. By that point, he accepts it, and believes he is him.
At least, that's how I read it.
What do you mean zero build up? Like I said, it's suggested throughout the game; the hints and build up were all there. By the time Mission 47 just randomly pops up, all the main story lines are tied up, sans Liquid, which was cut.
It's like saying there was no build up to Bruce Willis being dead throughout the entirety of Sixth Sense. There was, and upon re-watches, you see all the moving parts.
I'm not fully sure either, but I think it's the phantom Big Boss that Snake kills in Metal Gear 1. The real Big Boss, meanwhile, is working on Zanzibar Land and is "killed" by Snake in Metal Gear 2.
and yeah, where the hell was Solid Snake during all of this?
Nemesis_
Member
This is my thing. They throw it out there and do nothing to weave it into the Canon.
I can deal with Kojima explaining the Cobra Unit away with the parasites, even if Quiets explanation is in direct contradiction with The End.
I can deal with Kojima making Strangelove the mother to Otacon.
They're stupid and harmless twists that are easy to understand.
But this Venom shit is just...... disappointing.
meltingparappa
Member
I would have been all for those tapes just disappearing from your list after hearing them all, but probably frustrating if you had to get up to deal with cat vomit halfway through the reveal in the last one.
I kinda think the opposite to the no build up; it's so goddamn obvious that I stopped thinking about it at some point because I was under the impression it wasn't going to be elaborated on or was just false flags. I guess you could read that as being sneaky or something but in my mind that's just... poor.
Vyse The Legend
Member
The timeline at the end confirms that SS kills the Phantom/Venom in MG1, and badly wounds the real BB in MG2.
Ocelot also says in the tapes that SS/David lives in the U.S. his whole life.
It's random, but since it's a hard area and you have the heroism for S++ soldiers, the chances are better than getting them in many other places.
Nemesis_
Member
I also find it bizarre they bothered to bring Liquid into things but then not even attempt to do anything with Solid or even Solidus.
That's a minor nitpick and not one that I hold against the game too much but also something I feel like, as a final game, should've been explored.
I mean Kojima found a way to bring fucking Psycho Mantis and Volgin into the fold and he leaves out Solid Snake for what is meant to be his last Metal Gear game? Seems weird.
That's a minor nitpick and not one that I hold against the game too much but also something I feel like, as a final game, should've been explored.
I mean Kojima found a way to bring fucking Psycho Mantis and Volgin into the fold and he leaves out Solid Snake for what is meant to be his last Metal Gear game? Seems weird.
Sir Garbageman
Member
Cross Posting from the Non-Spoiler thread cause I don't really care bout spoilers tbh, about 10 hours in, thanks!
1. What is there to do in Mother Base? I return after every mission or two, run around a bit all of the various platforms but don't really find anything substantial outside of saluting soldiers and the occasional diamond. Should I be returning frequently, and if so, where?
2. I have heard that there are specific story bits / cutscenes that are difficult to trigger. Is there a comprehensive list somewhere? I would hate to miss something. Specifically, that you can find Paz by going to the Medical Wing and using your night vision goggles or something.
3. Is there a definitive guide to get the True Ending? Again I have heard / read bits and pieces of needing to replay certain missions.
4. Any key weapons or items I should be researching? I am still using the tranq pistol 95% of the time. Hearing bout this awesome tool box I want to experiment some more but I still primarily just crawl / tranq (or choke) / fulton and repeat for most missions.
5. Should I make an effort to fulton soldiers with specific skills? If so which are critical? Right now I am pretty much snatching up everyone.
1. What is there to do in Mother Base? I return after every mission or two, run around a bit all of the various platforms but don't really find anything substantial outside of saluting soldiers and the occasional diamond. Should I be returning frequently, and if so, where?
2. I have heard that there are specific story bits / cutscenes that are difficult to trigger. Is there a comprehensive list somewhere? I would hate to miss something. Specifically, that you can find Paz by going to the Medical Wing and using your night vision goggles or something.
3. Is there a definitive guide to get the True Ending? Again I have heard / read bits and pieces of needing to replay certain missions.
4. Any key weapons or items I should be researching? I am still using the tranq pistol 95% of the time. Hearing bout this awesome tool box I want to experiment some more but I still primarily just crawl / tranq (or choke) / fulton and repeat for most missions.
5. Should I make an effort to fulton soldiers with specific skills? If so which are critical? Right now I am pretty much snatching up everyone.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Nah, BB definitely did everything that was alluded to in previous games other than build Outer Heaven. While Venom is turning Diamond Dogs into Outer Heaven, Boss is off saving Wolf, Fox, Naomi, and doing whatever the hell else he wants because Venom has the world's attention.
Solid Snake isn't mentioned because it's implied he had a pretty normal childhood and didn't interact with Boss at all until he joined FOXHOUND later in life. In that sense, Liquid/Eli really got the short end of the stick, since someone told him he's a shit version of a clone and it affected his entire worldview and personality. David is meanwhile blissfully oblivious to being a clone and doesn't encounter any weird shit until Metal Gear 1.
There's nothing leading in to the mission. Venom doesn't have some sort of crisis questioning his identity nor does anyone point it out. The mission is literally dumped at the very end of the game with no plot threads tying it to previous events.
Yes there are clues but the narrative doesn't do a good, hell a satisfactory job, of making it a proper finale. Redoing the bloated prologue only compounds on how bad the execution is.
Death Metalist
Member
How so?
Vyse The Legend
Member
Yeah, you're looking at this in hindsight with 20/20 vision, and honestly, I think it's why a lot of people are disappointed with the story.
We know, now, that this is Kojima's last MGS. His final hurrah. As a result, we were all hoping this story would lead right into MG1, close the loop and bring complete closure.
However, this game was likely never meant to do that. Kojima was just making the game he wanted with the story he wanted. I doubt he himself knew that this would be the very last time he would be able to add to the franchise. If he had, he might've done it differently.
This was always meant to be the next installment in the series, not the series finale that it became due to real-world corporate politics.
Liquid being Miller twist
Kojima completely misunderstanding how dominant and recessive genes work
Ocelot threatening Snake with Meryl's life to get him to talk, then immediately turning around and telling him that if he gives up he'll kill Meryl. Way to incentivize Snake shutting up, Ocelot.
The way FOX-DIE affects Liquid and Solid. I read that Naomi programmed the virus to be a wild-card in the sense that it could affect them randomly, which makes no sense because then it's possible for Solid to die before actually completing the mission, except of course this never happens though it kills Liquid at the most convenient time
Liquid lets Meryl be tortured to the point of death and then programs a bomb to detonate when she dies. wtf?
Of course MGS1 makes more sense than say MGS4's epilogue: on the list of crazy MGS stories it's pretty tame. But I'm still not comfortable saying it's logically coherent.
There's no escalation of tension leading to the twist. You exile Huey, Miller marvels at your restraint, and then it just shows up on the mission list. When you start the mission, it jumps straight into flashback, and spends a ton of time on you waking up from a coma and staring at nurses yet again.
If you compare it to how twists are deployed in Bioshock, Spec Ops, or MGS2, it's incredibly lacking.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The Venom Snake thingo would be more interest if it wasn't telegraphed blatantly to the audience going all the way back to the original reveal, culminating with the goddamn opening, which consists of facemaker.exe, mysterious Keifer bandage man, and a song about a doppleganger playing in the background. There was no subtltity. It was so obvious you're not actually Big Boss that a part of me was hoping you were and it was a deliberate double ruse.
And I think this is a theme the game really faltered with. You have this fairly surreal opening sequence with fire whales and flaming Volgan and Psycho Mantis and a delirious maybe-it-is-maybe-it-isn't Snake, mysterious bandage man, etc. And then stuff in the trailers like that shot where Venom is talking to Skull Face and also has an apparition of him on Mother Base that got everyone talking.
I don't know about you guys, but the impression I got from early media was that the line between fact/fiction was going to be blurrier and the game would play heavily on themes of surreal and hallucinations. Like an odd, unsettling vibe to the whole thing.
What we got was something oddly straight down the road. Everything was explained outright and kinda boring and dull. And Venom isn't actually Big Boss like you expected, so clap clap. The end.
And I think this is a theme the game really faltered with. You have this fairly surreal opening sequence with fire whales and flaming Volgan and Psycho Mantis and a delirious maybe-it-is-maybe-it-isn't Snake, mysterious bandage man, etc. And then stuff in the trailers like that shot where Venom is talking to Skull Face and also has an apparition of him on Mother Base that got everyone talking.
I don't know about you guys, but the impression I got from early media was that the line between fact/fiction was going to be blurrier and the game would play heavily on themes of surreal and hallucinations. Like an odd, unsettling vibe to the whole thing.
What we got was something oddly straight down the road. Everything was explained outright and kinda boring and dull. And Venom isn't actually Big Boss like you expected, so clap clap. The end.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Man, the Episode 51 cutscene is so good even if it's not finished. The first time where you see yourself becoming demon and I really liked the reflection of your demonself in the chopper mirror.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
solid "the real protagonist" "biggest boss" snake was probably watching some action movies with his caretakers, he's not as crazy as liquid
Vyse The Legend
Member
I guess not seeing any of the trailers worked in my favor. I went in completely fresh, and left thoroughly satisfied.
Nemesis_
Member
Quiet wears no clothes because she needs to breathe through her skin via Photosynthesis. The End operates similarly but wears clothes.
So did I but it was still fairly obvious where things were going. It's almost like an M Night film where you know a twist is coming so you're doing everything you can to work it out.
It didn't help they were so fucking blatant about it in the opening chapters.
I never really thought about the last two but the first two seemed fairly straightforward to me. What didn't you think made sense about Miller? In retrospect I guess maybe they should've confirmed that Miller was who he said he was before enlisting on the mission
As for the gene stuff I also assumed that the misunderstanding with how genes worked was Liquids own misunderstanding and not Kojimas. Ultimately it didn't matter in the end.
I wish I was sober and on a computer so I could discuss this better 🌚
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I didn't really scour the trailers for details, but I did watch them, which I knew was a dumb idea. I've conditioned myself to be really sensitive towards trailer material (irrespective of the medium). I'll remember almost all of it, and any subsequent trailers, and subconsciously patch together a timeline.
To be fair though Kojima really did spoil almost everything the trailers.
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