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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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So it is a fun revealing outfit on a character or is it a misogynist design? The idea that cosplayers are incapable of deciding for themselves whether a character design is something they like, whether a sexualized design in and of itself is a power fantasy.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
People cosplayed as Quiet before the game even came out. They probably weren't expecting her to be treated the way she was in the game, a woman who can only get strong and defend herself from rape when partially nude is not a power fantasy.
Straight up invisibility is so much better tho, you can literally run super far into bases without being caught.
I want more subsistence missions. I can't even play anything normally anymore. GMP deployment cost is so high, and thanks to the "adaptive AI," trying to do anything takes an age.
*guard sees a leaf fall from 900m away* "HQ I was just fired at, location unknown, send 20 riot gear guys"
*guard sees a leaf fall from 900m away* "HQ I was just fired at, location unknown, send 20 riot gear guys"
why do the guards lie?
How many Quiet cosplayers have you talked to this about? I'm curious.
Also, back when the character design was revealed, and was held as what was "everything wrong with gaming"? That character design?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Those scenes leave a sour taste for the Character "Quiet"
Stop defending this shit, it's clearly objectifying her in those scenes.
Stop defending this shit, it's clearly objectifying her in those scenes.
Those scenes leave a sour taste for the Character "Quiet"
Stop defending this shit, it's clearly objectifying her in those scenes.
And yet, some people don't view that as "problematic". Some people say "oh look that's hot" and then get on with playing the game.
yeah, but octocam feeds my stealth addiction without just being like 'notarget = on'
I'm sorry you can't tell the forest from the trees. But dat agency
i've never seen a good argument to why quiet is supposed to be a good character. All i see are "this is my infallible opinion" or "i'm sure women like it" (which is funny when many of us specifically say the opposite) or just diffuse any sort of need to substantiate why she's good by attacking those who have the opposite opinion.
After seeing her whole story, no, she has no good agency. She can demonstrably communicate in any language other than english. Doesn't. Prances around for the Camera. Doesn't have anything to do with taking down the antagonists outside of LITERALLY being an object by being a buddy to order around. Is the only character specifically to have scenes entirely for leering. I mean, it doesn't even make sense that she "loves" the boss. He entirely demonstrates complacency with her continued psychological and physical torture at the hands of Diamond Dogs.
This is textbook stuff.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yes, the character design, and the blatant lies from Kojima, "she's the antithesis of video game female characters and you'll be ashamed of your words and deeds." She's exactly whats' wrong with female character designs and the writing of female characters in gaming. In fact, how many Quiet cosplayers have you talked to this about, how many discussions have you had with them about the treatment of her character and scenes like the torture and rape being sexualized? And let's not forget, people cosplay as shitty female characters all the time, Quiet isn't unique in that regard. People cosplay as damsels in distress, one dimensional characters, and
Thank you.Those scenes leave a sour taste for the Character "Quiet"
Stop defending this shit, it's clearly objectifying her in those scenes.
I see your point.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Of course some people say that, but it doesn't make it not "problematic".
The main thing is: it's easy to be stealthy when two AI are battling one another, but it's also dangerous when both sides will probably shoot you.
I liked that. It's a different breed of stealth. There was more room here to explore it I feel and it... wasn't.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
Does she?
She could have escaped at anytime, I took it that she ran away to die and allowed herself to be captured and killed, but the moment she realised she was gonna be raped she decided "not like this" and went crazy
It doesn't make it problematic either.
The game is great though, don't let a dumb twist completely ruin it for you. After all...
Lol.
No. It's impossible to ignore.
MGS 4 ending was shit but could easily be ignored. It was just some insignificant bad stuff in the end, it didn't affect majorly the game.
MGS V story on the other end, is a gigantic plot twist shit out of Kojima's ass (hell he could even bring up time travel now, nothing is coherent within the MGS world anymore), that makes you play as a phony the whole game.
How can you forget about it while replaying ? As well as learning about all the missing parts and actual ending of the game ?
It was a great game when you didn't know what was coming, but knowing what's ahead, it's definitely not worth it. The ending was so bad it actually made the journey awful. Not mentioning having to replay dumb missions to unlock more scenes.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Oh my lord....the people who say "oh look that's hot" and pretend like it isn't a startlingly bad portrayal of a female character are part of the problem.
Yes it does.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
But it does.
Give me a break, man.
It was clear from D1 what Quiet was going to be, if someone decided to cosplay as her, that's fine, but let's not act like "Oh, i thought the lady in a bikini who's creator said was created to sell toys and promote cosplaying was going to be a deep and complex strong character".
Also (unrelated to your comment), Quiet is bad enough as it is, without the need to come up with bullshit like "she gets her powers from an attempted rape" since it's obvious in the scene that she gets her powers back from being drowned in water.
Quiet is the empty sexy character, in a game that didn't have a place for it, didn't have the time for it, and didn't even have the right tone for it.
That's why she's so bad, she wasted run time in a game with very limited amounts of it, and she obviously wasted resources to a project with shortages of it.
Beyond that, we can go on and pretend there's even a discussion to be had about this thing, though.
DodgyTaZombie
Member
Power fantasy ?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8sD8n_t7Fvs
Maybe.
Power fantasy ?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ri2OWbB7fdE
Nope, just no.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8sD8n_t7Fvs
Maybe.
Power fantasy ?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ri2OWbB7fdE
Nope, just no.
Guess I'm part of the problem then.
SkylineRKR
Member
Those 'sexy' Quiet scenes are childish, nothing more.They are there and they have been in MGS for longer. It didn't bother me as much as the fact this game is fucking unfinished and terribly put together.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I didn't state that she got her powers from a rape attempt, I clearly said in that post that she gets powers from being partially nude, (because photosynthesis). I'm pretty sure we agree on all fronts especially the bolded.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I don't want to insult you, but yeah, you kinda are part of the problem with not being able to see what's so problematic about those scenes.
Edit: The rain scene was the first MGS or scene in any game where I felt offended by this shit. It makes it worse if you like/know the actress/model behind it.
It definitely should've been revisited.
They should've had different factions fight, but it should've been a system regulated ordeal, instead of a scripted one.
Plenty of open world games do this without problem.
I guess my issue is when my female friends and cosplay friends say "I wanna cosplay quiet, she's so cool", I say "ok, that's cool" instead of "you are why misogyny exists and liking her is wrong".
SkylineRKR
Member
In MGSV you have this mission where you help rebels by putting down tanks. But I didn't see any rebels fighting in the open. Even MGS4 did this better though clearly not at the scale as initially promoted.
I also clearly stated that, that part of my post, was unrelated to your comment.
DodgyTaZombie mentioned it in the past page (even though as a joke).
I was lazy and didn't go back to copy/paste his quote though.
SHOCKINGLY had fuck all to do with Metal Gear.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I am not talking about fucking cosplayers, I am talking about the character Quiet. Anybody can cosplay whatever they want.
That was a given tho.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
The thing that makes me laugh is that everyone is so gaga about Quiet and her breats that they forget to see what was really sexist about her character. How she is on a mission, but just ends up falling in love with the boss, despite the treatment she recives from everyone on MB, and sacrifices herself for him and them.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
She kinda feels like a trophy.
That's the crux of the issue tho isn't it? People aren't allowed to like the character. That's what you're saying.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
Didn't all the tanks go to the same area that is out of bounds? i just took it that they were all fighting there and we just had to stop the tanks from getting to the battlefield.
Yeah I'm one of those who defended Quiet's design before, but the way they handled it... wasn't great. Sexy easter eggs are fine by me, like Meryl in her underwear in MGS1 or something like that. But there's nothing clever about Quiet's exposure. It didn't even feel like a botched attempt to subvert expectations regarding female characters in games, there was no attempt. It's a shame, because in many ways she is the coolest character in the game.
In addition, the only other female character is completely fucked in the head and wears next to no clothing. A third one is referenced, but we find out she was left to starve to death and rot in a can. I'm not saying bad things happening to women is sexist but goddamn Kojima. I felt sick when I found out what happened to Strangelove.
In addition, the only other female character is completely fucked in the head and wears next to no clothing. A third one is referenced, but we find out she was left to starve to death and rot in a can. I'm not saying bad things happening to women is sexist but goddamn Kojima. I felt sick when I found out what happened to Strangelove.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I am not saying that. Stop putting words into my mouth. Quiet is an okay character with bad scenes, where she get's objectified and people should acknowledge this fact and stop ignoring it.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Truth be told, yes. If you can't see why and are able to ignore all the reasons provided and use "well my f-e-m-a-l-e friends like her" form of anecdote combined with basically saying "Oh look, a "hot" video game female character with no agency, a contrived as hell plot line, and some of the worst objectification in recent memory, I see no issue." This industry has a major sexism issue, Quiet is pretty much the epitome of that when it comes to modern video games, especially triple A ones.
She quite literally goes from trying to commit suicide to falling in love with VS for no reason whatsoever. All he had to do was place a hand on her shoulder. :|
They're entitled to their opinion.
However they should try to distinguish between the aspects they liked and the rest that are unnecessary objectification.
The fact that she's a 'naughty girl' who writhes around mostly nude in the rain, as the camera focuses on her breasts and ass, or the fact that she presents herself to you in the ACC, pointing her ass at the camera as a reward for using her as a buddy, has (I assume) nothing to do with the aspects of the character they liked.
If the cost of having 'badass' female characters is them being isolated in their objectification that's an issue, particularly when MGSV has no female counter-examples.
There's a very large level of presumption going on there about what people "like" and "don't like"
Also, on this very board the idea that they aren't immediately disgusted by the character would seem to mean that they are part of the problem regarding the games industry, when some of them actually aspire towards that.
SkylineRKR
Member
For every Quiet there is a Cassandra (DA) or Elena. It probably evens out.
Haunted
Member
Agreed with everything you said.
Kaz is implied to be a traitor in contact with Cypher in no uncertain terms twice, both times from fairly dubious sources, granted (Emmerich and Code Talker), but whether these instances are intended as red herrings or for story setup that didn't end up making it into the game (we know development was troubled, running over budget and rushed out towards the end), who knows.
I nearly stopped playing when the female Skull snipers were introduced because the camerawork in that cutscene focusing on tits and ass was so damn gross.
incoming old man "I'm too old for this shit" rant: I've had it up to here with pandering and fanservice, media attempting to arouse and titillate horny male teenagers really turns me off of something and makes me respect its creators less.
I'm not understanding what you're saying.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I don't think that's true tbh.
What did Code Talker say that implies Cipher? All I remember is eyes on kazuhira, don't remember what was before.
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