SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).

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UrbanRats said:
The setup wasn't as perfect, because the scene in GZ didn't have that much an impact.
A lot of people (most, i'd say) didn't even play PW, so they don't have any attachment to MotherBase.

So for those people (me included) the end scene of GZ was like "oh ok, they destroyed our base of operations, that sucks", not something you'd go on a demon descent over.
Having an event like GZ's relegated to a short thrown together demo was the first mistake, in my opinion.
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This was always a sticking point for me. How many millions of people will have bought this game and know absolutely nothing about these characters because they were all introduced in a 5 year old PSP game? It's really bizarre. There's no effort made to introduce much of anything. For me it's just another part where the story falls flat.
 
Deckard Chapel said:
Oh, I've seen the Mission 51 Phantom footage - I have the CE.

I thought it was something else judging by the way it was described.

So what all was cut from this game? It seems like the story missions such as "A Quiet Exit" and all the others that were relegated to the Side Ops Category and renamed were initially Main Ops and would have fit into the 61 main ops/5 chapter format of the leaked list.

Why the change and the moving around of the main story missions?

Why cut Mission 51? It wasn't offensive in any way - just like the cut scene of the soldier training the kids - it is now a real-time scene when you do one of the Total Stealth end-game missions. You can see 5 or so children being instructed on how to use their guns by a soldier.

I wonder if any of this cut content will be DLC or Game Of The Year Edition additions?
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61 Main Ops
5 Chapters?

Where is that list?
 
The plot moves forward because there's no other choice. Characters aren't human: they're ciphers or emblems of some idea. Miller is characterized by nothing but his desire for revenge on Cipher. Ocelot only seems to be there because he likes Big Boss. Skull Face is insane. Venom spends most of the story just following what people tell him to do, ultimately choosing to give up on needless vengeance and honor his men above anything else. Code Talker has some potentially interesting nuance to him in the tapes, but he's really just a plot device or exposition dispenser.

Make no mistake, these aren't people. No one except for Huey seems to have a past, or a more complicated life. They're a few very simple traits, emotionally flat. I can't feel for any of them.

I feel like Kojima saw movies like Mad Max, or Cuaron's Children of Men and Gravity, and really wanted to make a minimalist story that conveys characterization through body language, facial expression, and shot composition instead of through dialogue. And he didn't succeed. Maybe the Fox Engine's facial capture tech isn't good enough at bringing that stuff across, maybe he was too busy cramming in all this exposition about conspiracies and parasites to leave room for the characters. Or maybe he's just not a good enough writer to build characters in a nuanced and elegant way, without all the extra space allowed by lengthy cutscenes and mandatory codecs. Whatever the case, it doesn't work.

The only cutscene that I felt was well-written was the interrogation of Quiet, where Ocelot both challenges Miller and implies some things about his own character. Everything else is either really flat exposition or so campy that it can't be taken seriously.

EDIT: Quoting comprehension fail
 
sonicmj1 said:
What dialogues? There are hardly any actual conversations in this game that I would consider effective.

The plot moves forward because there's no other choice. Characters aren't human: they're ciphers or emblems of some idea. Miller is characterized by nothing but his desire for revenge on Cipher. Ocelot only seems to be there because he likes Big Boss. Skull Face is insane. Venom spends most of the story just following what people tell him to do, ultimately choosing to give up on needless vengeance and honor his men above anything else. Code Talker has some potentially interesting nuance to him in the tapes, but he's really just a plot device or exposition dispenser.

Make no mistake, these aren't people. No one except for Huey seems to have a past, or a more complicated life. They're a few very simple traits, emotionally flat. I can't feel for any of them.

I feel like Kojima saw movies like Mad Max, or Cuaron's Children of Men and Gravity, and really wanted to make a minimalist story that conveys characterization through body language, facial expression, and shot composition instead of through dialogue. And he didn't succeed. Maybe the Fox Engine's facial capture tech isn't good enough at bringing that stuff across, maybe he was too busy cramming in all this exposition about conspiracies and parasites to leave room for the characters. Or maybe he's just not a good enough writer to build characters in a nuanced and elegant way, without all the extra space allowed by lengthy cutscenes and mandatory codecs. Whatever the case, it doesn't work.

The only cutscene that I felt was well-written was the interrogation of Quiet, where Ocelot both challenges Miller and implies some things about his own character. Everything else is either really flat exposition or so campy that it can't be taken seriously.
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He was talking about Rockstar
 
sonicmj1 said:
What dialogues? There are hardly any actual conversations in this game that I would consider effective.

The plot moves forward because there's no other choice. Characters aren't human: they're ciphers or emblems of some idea. Miller is characterized by nothing but his desire for revenge on Cipher. Ocelot only seems to be there because he likes Big Boss. Skull Face is insane. Venom spends most of the story just following what people tell him to do, ultimately choosing to give up on needless vengeance and honor his men above anything else. Code Talker has some potentially interesting nuance to him in the tapes, but he's really just a plot device or exposition dispenser.

Make no mistake, these aren't people. No one except for Huey seems to have a past, or a more complicated life. They're a few very simple traits, emotionally flat. I can't feel for any of them.

I feel like Kojima saw movies like Mad Max, or Cuaron's Children of Men and Gravity, and really wanted to make a minimalist story that conveys characterization through body language, facial expression, and shot composition instead of through dialogue. And he didn't succeed. Maybe the Fox Engine's facial capture tech isn't good enough at bringing that stuff across, maybe he was too busy cramming in all this exposition about conspiracies and parasites to leave room for the characters. Or maybe he's just not a good enough writer to build characters in a nuanced and elegant way, without all the extra space allowed by lengthy cutscenes and mandatory codecs. Whatever the case, it doesn't work.

The only cutscene that I felt was well-written was the interrogation of Quiet, where Ocelot both challenges Miller and implies some things about his own character. Everything else is either really flat exposition or so campy that it can't be taken seriously.
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You haven't read what I replied to :(
 
Alienous said:
I'll agree there.

Something like having the remaining Mother Base soldiers used as guinea pigs for the parasites might have helped.

There was enough that as a character I could see how Big Boss could have a spiralling descent from there. When the doctor at the beginning talks about "mental and physical impairment being unavoidable" that seemed like reason enough that Big Boss might act out of character compared to him as a hero in Peace Walker. They actually use that excuse for Zero; his poisoning makes him erratic and his betrayal by Skull Face makes him less trusting of humans, leading to his 'evil' turn.

Basically the Mother Base sinking seemed like a good jumping off point. Big Boss suffering from memory loss, hallucinations (etc.) seemed like something that could have been used in the story to have him "become a demon". For example, perhaps a scene where he interrogates Kaz, knowing of his connection to Cipher but with a disregard to the years of history between them that would have been lost due to the coma.
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I agree it could've worked.

Kojima went for a more complicated (read: convoluted) idea, and in principle i appreciate the ambition, but i would also have liked a good character arc about his descent into madness, without big twists.

However, as i said in the previous pages, i think even the dupe BB plot could've worked in interesting ways, if it had a real character instead of a random empty shell to fill in the meta bollocks of "BB is you!".

Also, going by this twist, the game implies that BB was always a sack of shit, and probably a sociopath, who didn't really descend into Demonhood, but just outed his more inner nature, the more power and control he got.
 
People saying they showed so much in the trailers, for MGS3 they showed EVERYTHING.
 
I'm pretty certain nothing was cut because of 'offensiveness'.

They ran out of time and Konami stopped pouring money at them. They released what could be finished and that's it.
 
UrbanRats said:
I agree it could've worked.

Kojima went for a more complicated (read: convoluted) idea, and in principle i appreciate the ambition, but i would also have liked a good character arc about his descent into madness, without big twists.

However, as i said in the previous pages, i think even the dupe BB plot could've worked in interesting ways, if it had a real character instead of a random empty shell to fill in the meta bollocks of "BB is you!".

Also, going by this twist, the game implies that BB was always a sack of shit, and probably a sociopath, who didn't really descend into Demonhood, but just outed his more inner nature, the more power and control he got.
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I think it more implies that his heel turn happened prior to MGSV. It could very well be that PW was the catalyst.
 
I went back to Lamaar Khaate palace for a side-op and when I saw the burned-up shack from Quiet's final mission I felt Strong Feelings... despite how mishandled her entire character is throughout the whole game, I still felt a big loss when she left, and being reminded of it... hurt? Weird, right? But I'm a huge sucker for a tragic arc, and Quiet choosing a life of exile to save The Boss really hit home. In spite of how the game tries to undercut her at every turn, she's a noble character, and Joosten's facial performance really gave me a lot of empathy for her.

It's possible to feel all this and still be annoyed by how much the camera leers at her and the ridiculous poses they made her do in the chopper and in her cell, fwiw. Ironically she's still the only character in this game besides Venom/Boss (and DD!) I really gave a shit about.
 
Glass said:
This was always a sticking point for me. How many millions of people will have bought this game and know absolutely nothing about these characters because they were all introduced in a 5 year old PSP game? It's really bizarre. There's no effort made to introduce much of anything. For me it's just another part where the story falls flat.
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Er...this is a sequel, characters don't need to be introduced. Imagine if every sequel wasted time telling the player who the existing characters were. If people didn't play Peace Walker or Ground Zeroes that's on them not the game.
 
Arkanius said:
61 Main Ops
5 Chapters?

Where is that list?
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https://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/comments/3fqwr4/mgsv_spoilers_main_mission_list_revealed/

The guy who posted it back in August claimed he made it up after it got picked up by news outlets, but seeing how accurate it is to the final mission, he was likely covering his ass.

Code: 
Prologue : Awakening

Chapter 1 : Revenge
    Episode 1 : Phantom Limbs
    Episode 2 : Diamond Dogs
    Episode 3 : A Hero’s Way
    Episode 4 : C2W
    Episode 5 : Over The Fence
    Episode 6 : Where Do The Bees Sleep
    Episode 7 : Occupation Force
    Episode 8 : Red Brass
    Episode 9 : Back Up, Back Down
    Episode 10: Angel With A Broken Wing
    Episode 11: Cloaked In Silence
    Episode 12: Through The Hole
    Episode 13: The Enemy Of My Enemy
Chapter 2 : Dark Depths
    Episode 1 : Hellbound
    Episode 2 : From The Inside
    Episode 3 : Bad Dreams
    Episode 4 : Domination
    Episode 5 : Old Bones
    Episode 6 : Dangerous Wisdom
    Episode 7 : State Of Exception
    Episode 8 : Dirt Work
    Episode 9 : Open Hands
    Episode 10: Diamonds In The Sky
    Episode 11: Ghosts
    Episode 12: Playing With Monsters
    Episode 13: Kill The Beast
    Episode 14: Green Light
    Episode 15: Coup De Grace
    Episode 16: Lurking In The Dark
    Episode 17: Open Minds
    Episode 18: No Slaves
    Episode 19: Club Of The Unseen
    Episode 20: Two-Way Race
    Episode 21: Traitors’ Caravan
    Episode 22: Fire and Cold Ashes
Chapter 3 : The Costs Of Revenge
    Episode 1 : Pestilence
    Episode 2 : Phantom Pain
    Episode 3 : Madness Of Men
    Episode 4 : Three
    Episode 5 : Isolation
    Episode 6 : Severed Family
    Episode 7 : Fatal Massages
    Episode 8 : Voices
    Episode 9 : Corrupted
    Episode 10: Midnight Raid
    Episode 11: In The Face Of Pain
    Episode 12: The Beauty Of The Battlefield
    Episode 13: Manufactured Skin
    Episode 14: Homonculus
    Episode 15: There Are No Heroes
Chapter 4 : Punishing Words
    Episode 1 : Sins Of The Father
    Episode 2 : Loyalty
    Episode 3 : No Turning Back
    Episode 4 : Metallic Archaea
    Episode 5 : Sahelanthropus
    Episode 6 : War Is Peace I
    Episode 7 : Condition: Comatose
    Episode 8 : War Is Peace II
Chapter V : Confrontation
    Episode 1 : Pale Shadows Of Forgotten Names
    Episode 2 : Truth: The Man Who Sold The World
    Episode 3 : Demons

Epilogue : Demons In The Cold Of The Night
 
So, after Mission 45 you no longer can have Quiet as a buddy?!

And Mission 46 was so obvious from the very beginning. I am surprised Kojima made it that obvious with Ahmed and Ishmael both being voice by Kieder and Ishmael being a Grade A badass.
 
I guess I'm VERY late to the party with this. But did anyone else notice that Kid Mantis also has a horn/shrapnel in his head during the prologue? I guess it's supposed to be "symbolic" or something, but still.

fGNKNq3.jpg
 
Noray said:
I went back to Lamaar Khaate palace for a side-op and when I saw the burned-up shack from Quiet's final mission I felt Strong Feelings... despite how mishandled her entire character is throughout the whole game, I still felt a big loss when she left, and being reminded of it... hurt? Weird, right? But I'm a huge sucker for a tragic arc, and Quiet choosing a life of exile to save The Boss really hit home. In spite of how the game tries to undercut her at every turn, she's a noble character, and Joosten's facial performance really gave me a lot of empathy for her.

It's possible to feel all this and still be annoyed by how much the camera leers at her and the ridiculous poses they made her do in the chopper and in her cell, fwiw. Ironically she's still the only character in this game besides Venom/Boss (and DD!) I really gave a shit about.
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I was also sad when she left, despite everything about her character being stupid.
She's the best buddy, tho.

And well, the character the game spends the most time on, for some reason, despite being completely ancillary to the plot.
 
Ishida said:
I guess I'm VERY late to the party with this. But did anyone else notice that Kid Mantis also has a horn/shrapnel in his head during the prologue? I guess it's supposed to be "symbolic" or something, but still.

fGNKNq3.jpg
Click to expand...

Seems like he takes on some characteristic of whoever's rage he's channeling. When he starts to channel Eli he gets that little red bandana in his epaulette. Not sure what he has when channeling skullface though.
 
Ishida said:
I guess I'm VERY late to the party with this. But did anyone else notice that Kid Mantis also has a horn/shrapnel in his head during the prologue? I guess it's supposed to be "symbolic" or something, but still.

fGNKNq3.jpg
Click to expand...

Seeing this the first time, but the chopper is going to kill Snake there, and maybe his emotions took over mantis and then he spawned the firewhale to kill that chopper.

EDit: Just like he turns into Eli too.
 
Ishida said:
I guess I'm VERY late to the party with this. But did anyone else notice that Kid Mantis also has a horn/shrapnel in his head during the prologue? I guess it's supposed to be "symbolic" or something, but still.

fGNKNq3.jpg
Click to expand...

I did see that too, no idea what it means though.
 
Mister Negative said:
Seems like he takes on some characteristic of whoever's rage he's channeling. When he starts to channel Eli he gets that little red bandana in his epaulette. Not sure what he has when channeling skullface though.
Click to expand...

I was wondering about why he had that bandana too. I'd noticed it too but never pieced it together. That's a neat way to show who mantis is "channeling." I guess the flaming ends of his jacket sleeves are the sign for when Volgin is using him.
 
Yes Kid Mantis prefers the ones with the biggest lust for revenge.

I don't know if he feeds of Skull Face. It seems he's always channeling Volgin at these points.
 
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!! said:
The story from the trailers is better than crap we ended up getting in the final game. It was so promising ;_;

I still can't believe that literally every fucking cutscene in the game has been spoiled in some way or another.

What really gets me is that a lot of these cutscenes seem to have been wrapped up years ago. Same voice acting, same animation, same camera shots, same post processing even.

What the hell happened to this game's story? It feels completely non-existant.
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what's why you should never watch trailers of game where the story is important, they always spoil you a lot! I didn't watch any and i loved the story! Sure it sucks that a lot of the content is missing, there could be so much more, but i don't hate the ending at all
 
Mister Negative said:
Seems like he takes on some characteristic of whoever's rage he's channeling. When he starts to channel Eli he gets that little red bandana in his epaulette. Not sure what he has when channeling skullface though.
Click to expand...

akidnamededdy said:
I was wondering about why he had that bandana too. I'd noticed it too but never pieced it together. That's a neat way to show who mantis is "channeling." I guess the flaming ends of his jacket sleeves are the sign for when Volgin is using him.
Click to expand...

I was searching through my screenshots and I found the answer to that. When he channels Skull Face, the shape of his gas mask changes to that of Skull Face's mask.

ajxpdNt.jpg


Interesting concept.
 
Voidwolf said:
Anyone know what Snake says when you fire the Hand of Jehuty? Also, why do I have an IV in my arm all of a sudden?


COuX04NUcAATm_f.jpg:large
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It's something one of the characters in the second Zone Of The Enders game says. I don't think it really means anything. It's more like a battlecry.
 
Mister Negative said:
Seems like he takes on some characteristic of whoever's rage he's channeling. When he starts to channel Eli he gets that little red bandana in his epaulette. Not sure what he has when channeling skullface though.
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09oWmXt.jpg
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If it would only fit in the timeline.
Rin Tohsaka said:
If Skull Face hates English why does he speak it all the time?
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He can't speak most other languages because of his experimentation and infection with various parasites.
 
Kenzodielocke said:
Seeing this the first time, but the chopper is going to kill Snake there, and maybe his emotions took over mantis and then he spawned the firewhale to kill that chopper.

EDit: Just like he turns into Eli too.
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Now the whale finally make sense. V probably kept hearing Moby Dick references and was like "I'LL SHOW YOU MOBY DICK"

Also he permanently takes on the personality of a convicted criminal psychopath later, possibly leading to his altered appearance in MGS1.
 
SolVanderlyn said:
Now the whale finally make sense. V probably kept hearing Moby Dick references and was like "I'LL SHOW YOU MOBY DICK"

Also he permanently takes on the personality of a convicted criminal psychopath later, possibly leading to his altered appearance in MGS1.
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So MGS V has now retroactively made Mantis a non-character.

Bravo Mr Kojima.
 
Man, it's slowly sinking in how much of a disappointment this game is. Chapter 2 is just so goddamn awful that I really do think that I'd feel better about the game if they just ended it at chapter 1. Now that dataminers are finding pictures of chapter 3 it's just making things worse

I feel the phantom pain
 
You know what might have made the twist work better? if it was in the middle of the game or something. The reason you're left feeling sort of...empty is because venom never gets a chance to establish himself as a character. In the game, everything you do, you think you're big boss. but then you're told to kind of go back and retroactively attribute all of that to venom snake.

The game never gives your brain a chance to link the character you play as to venom snake, you know what i mean? Give the twist away in the middle, or 75% through, and then let you play the rest of the game knowing you're venom.

It might not work because it goes against the message of "oh we're both big boss." but that's nearly impossible to buy into anyway.

I can explain it better. You never do anything knowing that you're venom snake, so it's hard to imagine being venom snake establishing the legend of big boss. If you play through a portion of the game thinking to yourself "I am venom snake, but I am also big boss" i think it works a lot better.
 
Reebot said:
So MGS V has now retroactively made Mantis a non-character.

Bravo Mr Kojima.
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That was always in his backstory, though, since MGS1.
 
Deckard Chapel said:
LINK
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I mean there's no way the person who leaked this could know some of the actual mission names, then just claim they made it up. So I'm gonna choose to look at this as the game was no where near completion, Kojima was fired and whatever was finished was pushed out. I thought getting a butchered Chapter 2 and a cut Chapter 3 was bad, but if it was 5 Chapters it could mean the actual main theme/purpose of the games story was never revealed. Which is an even worse way to look at all of this.
 
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