pretty much
let's try to have fun out there
video games are still for fun, right?
are you a MOBA player turned FG enthusiast?
Street Fighter V Roster Discussion: P-P-P-P-PATTERN BREAKER
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
- Status
pretty much
let's try to have fun out there
video games are still for fun, right?
are you a MOBA player turned FG enthusiast?
Karsticles
Member
Holy shit, you aren't even reading my posts anymore. You can JAB out of the strings and trade with Bison's own jab or c.MP. They aren't safe. Did you even play the beta? How many matches?
My entire point has been that this change decimated the first character I have found fun in Street Fighter in ages. You are all complaining that the move was too strong even though everyone here clearly has infantile knowledge about the character.
The parry-esque nature of it with the forward movement during a block definitely isn't intuitive to a relatively new player.
It's also unfair to just assume the only reason it got nerfed is because people complained. They may have already thought it was too strong. They may have seen people using it in ways it wasn't intended. There have been some really questionable balance changes over the course of SFIV, so I understand the skepticism, but I'm going to trust that the designers know more about the game than me.
lmao you are so fucking off base. did you actually play or try to use them? you just do it during block stun, it's no different than mashing a reversal after blocking something except the input is even easier (forward + 3p/k vs SRK + p for instance). comparing it to a parry is silly.
again--you bring up new player. you're ignoring the actual point I made, which is that 'new players' won't be facing strong pressure unless they're mismatched, in which case who gives a fuck? anything will work? among competent players (the kind who apply solid pressure), v-reversal is a simple, basic tool. please
I care. I just don't really expect here in the initial roster. With my luck picking mains I feel fortunate that she was even in SSFIV. My last main hasn't shown up since Alpha 3(technically she was in Capcom Fighting Jam but nobody counts that game).
This is not intuitive either. Realizing you're free to input commands during blockstun is not something that players are quick to pick up on.
No, the command isn't that hard. I'm not talking about that.
Shadoken
Member
This... I mean when they get it wrong (Like in AE) , there is always going to be strong vocal feedback.
Scrubs,mid tier players,tourney players,pros.... All have different opinions on the game and everyone complains , Its not easy to make a game that remains fun at all levels of play.
This is a fking BETA people relax , the game isnt even out yet and we are already started this shit?
the only thing bothering me is your elitist behavior and constant condescension
"everyone here clearly has infantile knowledge about the character"
really, b?
srsly
Beelzebufo
Banned
I think both of these are still pretty intuitive though. I know they said they wanted to eliminate a lot of the bullshit from 4, but we're not talking advanced FADC combos or crouch canceling or plinking here.
Shadoken
Member
The funny part is it goes both ways. People crying over the nerfs also have "infantile knowledge about the character".
Maybe it was needed? Maybe it was not.... Its waaaay too early to tell.
Yes, you can trade, which pushes back both characters... leaving Bison close to his scissor kick range again. Trading as an outcome doesn't fix the problem, which is that Bison keeps getting to go through a (relatively) safe blockstring cycle over and over that puts him into advantageous positions throughout. This is why you have to make it slightly negative, so that if they block it and throw out a crouch jab/short, Bison is forced to block the jab instead and respond to pressure.
Bison's pressure wasn't difficult to pull off. If you don't consider the new players in your design, you can end up implementing things that push them away.
Karsticles
Member
Plenty of people at Capcom are scrubs, too. That is why Sentinel got nerfed.
Why wouldn't I be vocal about the game changing in a bad way? What kind of thought process makes you think silence is better? Hell, it isn't like folks need to make it an argument. I just said I was sad about a change to my potential main, and everyone jumped on me and said it was too good. Then I told people why they are wrong, but that makes me "upset". Now folks are ignoring the various escape options I have listed and say I should get over it.
I don't mind nerfs. What bothers me is that it ruins a STYLE of play. Like, they just gave him V-Trigger cancelable Knee Press. That is probably WAY better than Beta Psycho Inferno. It means a stray Knee Press can lead into a 500 damage combo. That is goddamn madness.
Am I happy about that buff? No. It isn't about him being good or bad. It is about him playing in a way that I found really fun in the beta.
I shouldn't have said "scrubby". I just meant he was free.
Because of scrubs at Capcom. Seth Killian said there was a big internal debate over it. Some people wanted Sentinel's health nerfed because they got bopped. Seth said that Sentinel needed the health because he is so easy to open up, and that he would become more manageable over time.
The scrubs won. Scrubs can direct games. Scrubs can be producers. Smash 4 was created by a person I assume to be a scrub, based on his character balancing.
Is it wrong? Folks here didn't know about any of the options I listed for getting out of it, all while saying the move is too strong. How does that make sense?
Decimated is a bit much. The game is still in development with a lot of time left to change frame data. How useful inferno will be when the game launches is a complete unknown. If the move looks weak now then Capcom will likely buff it or give Bison some sort of buff to help compensate. A lot of stuff int he builds is just to see what does and does work, like universal air dashes in MvC3.
Sarcasm? In joke?
Beelzebufo
Banned
Those are the only ones we ever talk about in here. And Sean? Maybe?
Karsticles
Member
Again, I am ONLY talking about his fun factor for me. I don't mean his effectiveness is decimated. With 2-3 new crush counter options and V-Cancelable Knee Press, he is probably better than ever. But I don't select my mains based on how good they are. I pick them because I enjoy playing them. From a standpoint of hype and general interest, Bison has been decimated to me.
A scrub is someone who complains about things instead of trying to learn how to beat them. The story thus far:
1) I post that Inferno got nerfed, and that I am sad because it made Bison a lot of fun to play.
2) Various posters say it needed to be nerfed, because it was too strong (subject change on their part).
3) I listed various ways to escape Psycho Inferno pressure.
4) Everyone ignores the list and continues to complain. Often, instead, doubling down on their initial position even though I have countered it.
I don't think anyone took a tone with you that you didn't already set yourself, but that's just me.
notworksafe
Member
We should get the government to create some sort of anti-scrub panel to weed out any potential scrubs or new players invading our esports that are totally for mature adults.
"Mr. Ono, are you now, or have you ever been, a scrub?"
"Mr. Ono, are you now, or have you ever been, a scrub?"
This worries me a lot.
To me, Chun in the first beta was the weakest character so far and if no one will pick her in those events, it's hard to say if Capcom will see her shortcomings before the final release.
Beelzebufo
Banned
He carriers around a Blanka figure. I think we know.
Shadoken
Member
Its true , nobody really talks or cares about returning SF 4 characters.
notworksafe
Member
He was in charge of SFxT and CFJ. We definitely know.
Karsticles
Member
I don't care about tone. I care about bad arguments and people ignoring the facts I lay down.
Scrubs aren't ever honest. Not even with themselves. That is what makes them scrubs. They can't stop to say "maybe I can change what I am doing", they have to blame the game.
I fought Vulva's Chun in the beta. Got wrecked. I didn't find her to be weak, but very few people understood how to play her.
No, it is a healthy human mindset. As a teacher, I see students with scrub attitudes, too. "This is too hard. I give up. Maybe I will just go into a career without math. This takes so long. Isn't there an easy way to do it?" Scrub is a life mentality that should always be challenged. You shouldn't ever redesign a game for scrub thinking.
HORRORSHØW
Member
Thiiiiiis
Unless you are marvel.
"You like this broken game? We'll here's MORE BROKEN GAME"
Shadoken
Member
I get what you are trying to say. But maybe once theres more feedback about him being boring to play ( Even though strong) . They might change it back up again?
I mean we are still very far from release. Theres going to be 2 more betas with plenty of info.
Really? I'd say shes really strong. Great footsies, great vtrigger, godly AA's. Only thing i didnt like was her vskill and her overhead, but shes still very strong. Actually i hope they dont nerf b.hk, its so good.
Valkerionseven
Member
Bingo.
Plenty of characters seem weak early on and develop later. In SF4 characters like Cammy, and Viper got ignored fore awhile, even though they had plenty of great stuff in the earliest versions or Zero, C. Viper or Morrigan early on in MvC3. Chun-Li has some of the best tools in the previous beta and her only real shortcomings are the slowness of her v-skill and low damage compared to some of the other characters in the beta who do tons of damage easily.
Karsticles
Member
It's just me that finds him boring. Some other people might have found the version I loved more boring. His playstyle right now is closer go SFIV Bison, which I found boring, but some people must enjoy, since people main him.
What will happen instead is the next batch of characters will come out, and people will complain about how good they are. Pray your favorite character doesn't stomp noobs.
Bison isn't the only victim here, either. Did Nash's V-Trigger really need a nerf? I hardly ever got hit by it because I played smart. Most people held down-back and got smacked the hell up. Bye-bye fun Nash skill.
Yeah, I was desperately trying to find pros play Chun, but none did. I think vesperarcade was the best streamer I could find, he played her almost exclusively.
In design, everything is in flux at the start. Many things get locked down (art style, systems, etc) but many gears and levers are still able to be tuned.
When your players are giving you feedback, giving that feedback consideration is important. Not all feedback is worthwhile. (RYUS HADOKEN CHEESE IS OP IN SFV= bad feedback. Anything from DSP? Bad Feedback.) But much of it is, because it lets you identify issues that are frustrating players and can be adjusted before things go live.
No one likes getting hit. No one likes losing. These things will happen, and players know that. But how you lose can be very important, because losing in ways that make you feel like you have little control over the situation (Hi, Vortexes) create very negative reactions. Enough of those negative emotional reactions, and you'll have players just straight up quit the game because of it. That means less future DLC income, less growth for the game, etc- none of those are good things.
Stone Ocean
Member
Mature and Vice without their skirts just isn't the same
The balance changes to the characters were to be expected. Normally this process would hidden from us until release, just because now it's transparent doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.
I felt she was good, just kinda oddly designed and boring. Her strengths are her normals, which get even better with her vtrigger. Yet most of the match you're playing the patience game, not building much V-trigger meter. Also her Vskill seems to work counter intuitive to her strengths.
I felt she was good, just kinda oddly designed and boring. Her strengths are her normals, which get even better with her vtrigger. Yet most of the match you're playing the patience game, not building much V-trigger meter. Also her Vskill seems to work counter intuitive to her strengths.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Lol wrong as fuck. You need to approach game design from as many view points as possible. It's why fighting games have easy characters and technical characters. Its why dmc has easy stuff you can beat the game with or crazier fancy stuff
Chun was the only character that blew me up consistently during the beta. I played Birdie.
Not saying that doesn't make her the weakest character, I'm probably just shit at the matchup, but she definitely seemed viable from my perspective.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Doesn't she like flash people her underwear in one of her Alpha 3 super animations?
Stone Ocean
Member
Chun is a scary footsies character. You can't really work on her balance until you get good players to break her, otherwise she's too strong and suddenly you're in a "giving Justing Wong X-Factor" situation
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Wow she looks great
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