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[xtradi]

Kojima horribly mismanaged the project.

That's what it comes down to. He couldn't keep it on track, and so we got a disjointed mess sans an ending.

This is not unique to Kojima. Who is not mismanaged a game project? Almost all AAA game project is either have cut content, horrible before patch, or missing deadline and must be postponed lately.

Even the Star Citizen is turning to kickstater mostly because Chris Robert cannot agree to a set deadine before doing the project.

 

[MMarston]

Avys? What's that?

Avatars.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Have you seen MGSV and the huge world they created? Compare that to the other games in the series, their worlds are tiny in comparison.

Yes, I see the two huge empty hubs with outposts and a tiny outcropping they want to call a jungle and the oil platform where you do nothing of importance at

Money well spent

gee that's weird, i don't see this statement in my post--could you find it for me

thanks

You wouldn't have gone apologist and used him being in his office for six months as an excuse for him if that wasn't the statement you were trying to make

 

[bucyou55]

Yes, I see the two huge empty hubs with outposts and a tiny outcropping they want to call a jungle and the oil platform where you do nothing of importance at

Money well spent

You wouldn't have gone apologist and used him being in his office for six months as an excuse for him if that wasn't the statement you were trying to make

after reading your last 5 or so responses


way to be an annoying prick

 

[Red Blaster]

Yes, I see the two huge empty hubs with outposts and a tiny outcropping they want to call a jungle and the oil platform where you do nothing of importance at

Money well spent

You wouldn't have gone apologist and used him being in his office for six months as an excuse for him if that wasn't the statement you were trying to make

i actually believe kojima's project management skills (or lack thereof) negatively affected the development in addition to konami's meddling

protip: pithy snark tends to be more effective when they aren't used to construct consecutive strawman arguments, chin up kid--you'll do better next time

 

[razzmahtazz]

Yes, I see the two huge empty hubs with outposts and a tiny outcropping they want to call a jungle and the oil platform where you do nothing of importance at

Money well spent

You wouldn't have gone apologist and used him being in his office for six months as an excuse for him if that wasn't the statement you were trying to make

Dude was trying to make 3 games, an engine in those 5 years and whatever his responsibilities as vp were.

Add to that the horrible conditions him and the employees received then why the fuck shouldn't I blame Konami for meddling?

 

[JayEH]

It's a combination of a lot things of course. There isn't one person to blame.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Trying to paint Konami as the only villain and Kojima as the martyr is the problematic view. I don't know that anyone is really thinking that way, but it is a naive and stupid look at the situation that lacks any responsible nuance.

 

[KOMANI]

It's a combination of a lot things of course. There isn't one person to blame.

Never is. Fortunately Phantom Pain will be remembered as a fun stealth game. Worthy to be a Metal Gear game, but not without its faults.

 

[Red Blaster]

kojima was also working on silent hills as director since 2012, i don't think he's directed two projects simultaneously so it's quite likely he had too much on his plate

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Trying to paint Konami as the only villain and Kojima as the martyr is the problematic view. I don't know that anyone is really thinking that way, but it is a naive and stupid look at the situation that lacks any responsible nuance.

I mean, Konami has been acting the villain for the past year or so. And Kojima wanted to be a perfectionist in terms of polish and whatever. Konami said no, so they're the bad guy.

Which I mean, they really are.

 

[Endo Punk]

after reading your last 5 or so responses


way to be an annoying prick

The guy is just laying down the truth bombs. Past games may have been small in comparison but their locations had far more personality. MGSV when it comes down to it leaves you feeling empty like its open world even after putting 100 hours into the game. Its mostly filler content including the terrible story.

 

[Endo Punk]

I mean, Konami has been acting the villain for the past year or so. And Kojima wanted to be a perfectionist in terms of polish and whatever. Konami said no, so they're the bad guy.

Which I mean, they really are.

Kojima was never going to finish the game if Konami never put their foot down. They are at fault but its not black and white like that. Koj is also to blame.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I mean, Konami has been acting the villain for the past year or so. And Kojima wanted to be a perfectionist in terms of polish and whatever. Konami said no, so they're the bad guy.

Which I mean, they really are.

Saying, "No, get your damn work done on time" isn't being a bad guy. It's reigning in someone who doesn't know how to properly manage work and meet deadlines.

So like I said: it's a stupid, naive and unnuanced view.

 

[WrenchNinja]

i actually believe kojima's project management skills (or lack thereof) negatively affected the development in addition to konami's meddling

protip: pithy snark tends to be more effective when they aren't used to construct consecutive strawman arguments, chin up kid--you'll do better next time

Cool. So what's your issue exactly? Blaming everything on Kojima? Do you want to split it 50/50? Or 60/40? Given Konami's past with him and how much leeway he's been given, and his position on the board at the time during the production of MGSV, I don't see why he shouldn't get the majority of the blame.

I'll be sure to keep that in mind if I ever decide to make a strawman argument.

after reading your last 5 or so responses

way to be an annoying prick

Oh, I don't know, I thought I was being pretty nice.

 

[Reebot]

So we're pinning this on Kojima alone? I'm sure he mismanaged a lot but he still brought a critically acclaimed game that I'm sure will be immensely profitable for KONAMI, delays and all.

This was obviously an upper management decision of cutting that last one. They could've cut 10 Missions if that's what it took to equal the resources and time that Mission 51 would've taken.

No, that's not obvious. What is obvious, however, is that Kojima spent five years and millions of dollars. He's not entitled to a blank check. Its his job to manage time and money in creating the product. When, given the time and money, the game comes out unfinished, thats on Kojima.

 

[razzmahtazz]

No, that's not obvious. What is obvious, however, is that Kojima spent five years and millions of dollars. He's not entitled to a blank check. Its his job to manage time and money in creating the product. When, given the time and money, the game comes out unfinished, thats on Kojima.

Still can't believe people in gaming side with a corporation for this shit. Its so jaded.

On the movie side, people defend the damn artists. Fury Road, Jodrowsky's Dune, Eraserhead, Avatar, Thief and the Cobbler, Boyhood. All of those were too ambitious and and some had production schedules way beyond 5 years.

Saying, "No, get your damn work done on time" isn't being a bad guy. It's reigning in someone who doesn't know how to properly manage work and meet deadlines.

So like I said: it's a stupid, naive and unnuanced view.

Yeh, get your work done on time so that you can clean my toilet isnt evil enough somehow.

 

[JayEH]

You can only defend the artist for so long. And no one is defending the corporation. As myself and many others have said both sides had issues that caused this game to ship the way it was. Expecting Konami to be ok with Kojima spending 80 million in 5 years (and he obviously wanted more time/money) is absurd. If you look at how many copies they've sold so far they probably haven't even broke even. Unless you're making GTA money, no company is going to be ok with that.Telling kojima "enough" had to be done eventually.

That being said, Konami has been shits this entire time. What they are doing to their employees is unacceptable. They obviously don't care about games anymore and are preparing themselves for gambling to be legalized.

Also comparing this to movies is dumb, movies and games have completely different production schedules. Movies aren't spending 10s of millions of dollars in pre production (where they are stuck in dev hell). There is a difference between trying to get a movie done for 20 years and a game in 5. Because in those 5 years the game is in actual production as opposed to a movie where they are just trying to get to the production stage.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Yeh, get your work done on time so that you can clean my toilet isnt evil enough somehow.

I didn't say they weren't bad. They are in many regards. I said painting them as evil and Kojima as good is stupid.

Do I think their practices with shunting skilled employees off into terrible jobs is a good practice? No. But do I have sympathy with Kojima for his inability to keep a project properly managed? Again, no.

You can only defend the artist for so long. And no one is defending the corporation. As myself and many others have said both sides had issues that caused this game to ship the way it was. Expecting Konami to be ok with Kojima spending 80 million in 5 years (and he obviously wanted more time/money) is absurd. If you look at how many copies they've sold so far they probably haven't even broke even. Unless you're making GTA money, no company is going to be ok with that.Telling kojima "enough" had to be done eventually.

That being said, Konami has been shits this entire time. What they are doing to their employees is unacceptable. They obviously don't care about games anymore and are preparing themselves for gambling to be legalized.

Also comparing this to movies is dumb, movies and games have completely different production schedules. Movies aren't spending 10s of millions of dollars in pre production (where they are stuck in dev hell). There is a difference between trying to get a movie done for 20 years and a game in 5. Because in those 5 years the game is in actual production as opposed to a movie where they are just trying to get to the production stage.

Ding ding ding.

 

[Ashura_MX]

Done with Chapter 1, I have to say Kaz gets his revenge, Medic gets his revenge, Huey... kills a guy and yells revenge (bad acting ftw) both Kaz and Medic turn to demons (or else I'm reading the angles and mood wrong)

Eli... turns to medic, zero emotions.

But hey "men become demons": check.

Its definitely a Metal Gear game at least up to the credits; no idea why Hideo included the Chapter 2 preview unless the big plan is/was to release chapters as DLCs. Guess it falls under "Hideo trying hollywood shit".

Probably best for me to think of this game and GZ as a stand alone universe (wont play PW)

 

[danm999]

Yeah not sure why this has to be an even/or.

Kojima seems to have bitten off more than he could chew (this game's scope is exponential compared to any other Metal Gear) and Konami sounds like an absolutely rotten company to work for.

 

[Salaadin]

You can only defend the artist for so long. And no one is defending the corporation. As myself and many others have said both sides had issues that caused this game to ship the way it was. Expecting Konami to be ok with Kojima spending 80 million in 5 years (and he obviously wanted more time/money) is absurd. If you look at how many copies they've sold so far they probably haven't even broke even. Unless you're making GTA money, no company is going to be ok with that.Telling kojima "enough" had to be done eventually.

That being said, Konami has been shits this entire time. What they are doing to their employees is unacceptable. They obviously don't care about games anymore and are preparing themselves for gambling to be legalized.

100 percent agreed.

But I feel that stuff like this

When, given the time and money, the game comes out unfinished, thats on Kojima.

Is very short sighted.

History has shown the team operates real well with Kojima and sometimes without. They're a highly talented bunch. And while I definitely won't rule out the idea that Kojima just effed this whole thing up, a part of me can't shake the thought that he's managed these projects for a long time with success so I end up going back to the thought that Konami was meddling long before any of us knew about it.

But it's still all an uninformed opinion. It almost feels linked to think about it.

 

[aly]

Still can't believe people in gaming side with a corporation for this shit. Its so jaded.

On the movie side, people defend the damn artists. Fury Road, Jodrowsky's Dune, Eraserhead, Avatar, Thief and the Cobbler, Boyhood. All of those were too ambitious and and some had production schedules way beyond 5 years.

Yeh, get your work done on time so that you can clean my toilet isnt evil enough somehow.

Siding with the company would be dumb. But so is defending an artist who wastes money and don't do their job to put out a product. You know the thing that they are paid to do and what we pay for? Both the creative and business sides are important and should take the criticism when it's owed. In this case, both sides screwed up and both should receive blame.

 

[KingHenrik30]

What the fuck? Is this an unfinished game? Story wise NOTHING was explained! Am I missing something? Where was big boss turning evil? What happened to Eli and The Third Child? Where is Snake/Eva/Gray Fox? Granted, I haven't done all the Paz stuff and I am only doing episode 46 now, but PLEASE tell me some of these things get explained!

 

[Grinchy]

All I know is that if this game is a "fuck up" then I hope we see a lot of fuck ups this generation.

 

[JayEH]

What the fuck? Is this an unfinished game? Story wise NOTHING was explained! Am I missing something? Where was big boss turning evil? What happened to Eli and The Third Child? Where is Snake/Eva/Gray Fox? Granted, I haven't done all the Paz stuff and I am only doing episode 46 now, but PLEASE tell me some of these things get explained!

Look at OP for Eli. For everything else...

 

[Ashura_MX]

What the fuck? Is this an unfinished game? Story wise NOTHING was explained! Am I missing something? Where was big boss turning evil? What happened to Eli and The Third Child? Where is Snake/Eva/Gray Fox? Granted, I haven't done all the Paz stuff and I am only doing episode 46 now, but PLEASE tell me some of these things get explained!

Oh boy...

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

Quick question: Are parasites pretty much nano-machines?

I listened to all of the tapes and listened to the code-talker related tapes more than once. I felt like using parasites as a reason for the GRUs powers and other anomalies in the Big Boss era are the same as using nano-machines for every out of this world event in the Solid Snake/Raiden era.

It's such a different vibe from when it seemed like Kojima believed in the supernatural, based on the characters and their backstories from 1 and 2.

 

[KingHenrik30]

Look at OP for Eli. For everything else...

Oh boy...

I am heartbroken. Legitimately.

 

[sflufan]

Is this an unfinished game?

That depends on your definition of "unfinished".

Where was big boss turning evil?

See MGS 3 and the "real" MGS 5 aka "Peacewalker"

What happened to Eli and The Third Child?

Enjoy this 18 minute YouTube video of an Episode 51 that you will NEVER play!

 

[Unknown One]

Drk29 is doing a MGS3 Euro Extreme fork only run.

http://www.twitch.tv/uknighted

Posting in here since it's the most active MGS thread.

 

[JayEH]

Quick question: Are parasites pretty much nano-machines?

I listened to all of the tapes and listened to the code-talker related tapes more than once. I felt like using parasites as a reason for the GRUs powers and other anomalies in the Big Boss era are the same as using nano-machines for every out of this world event in the Solid Snake/Raiden era.

It's such a different vibe from when it seemed like Kojima believed in the supernatural, based on the characters and their backstories from 1 and 2.

Yes

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Quick question: Are parasites pretty much nano-machines?

Pretty much.

Proto-nanonmachines, if you will. The whole concept is pretty much reliant on you not caring about the fact these parasites seem to be able to do everything.

 

[Ashura_MX]

Quick question: Are parasites pretty much nano-machines?

I listened to all of the tapes and listened to the code-talker related tapes more than once. I felt like using parasites as a reason for the GRUs powers and other anomalies in the Big Boss era are the same as using nano-machines for every out of this world event in the Solid Snake/Raiden era.

It's such a different vibe from when it seemed like Kojima believed in the supernatural, based on the characters and their backstories from 1 and 2.

Pretty much; I prefer no explanation the supernatural.

 

[KOMANI]

The news that came from Naughty Dog where they said they decided to delay the game to make the best Uncharted 4 they could, since it was the last game of the series, made me think that Kojima felt the same way. Obviously he wants the best version of Phantom Pain to come out.
But that doesn't change anything really. Judging from the MGS4 documentary, I see that Kojima doesn't manage time well. And Konami is a business with no heart. Both are to blame. If the game came out before the new Ceo took the job at Konami, we would be playing a better game.

 

[KingHenrik30]

That depends on your definition of "unfinished".



See MGS 3 and the "real" MGS 5 aka "Peacewalker"



Enjoy this 18 minute YouTube video of an Episode 51 that you will NEVER play!

This was game was supposed to be the link between Big Boss the Legendary Soldier and Big Boss the terrorist, wasn't it? How does the Boss go about this? What about Kaz and Him? Fuck there are just too many questions. This is going to kill me.

 

[Xpliskin]

What the fuck? Is this an unfinished game? Story wise NOTHING was explained! Am I missing something? Where was big boss turning evil? What happened to Eli and The Third Child? Where is Snake/Eva/Gray Fox? Granted, I haven't done all the Paz stuff and I am only doing episode 46 now, but PLEASE tell me some of these things get explained!

Welcome to the club buddy.

Here's a first drink, you'll need plenty to get over the Phantom Pain.

 

[BadWolf]

What the fuck? Is this an unfinished game? Story wise NOTHING was explained! Am I missing something? Where was big boss turning evil? What happened to Eli and The Third Child? Where is Snake/Eva/Gray Fox? Granted, I haven't done all the Paz stuff and I am only doing episode 46 now, but PLEASE tell me some of these things get explained!

Finish Episode 46 and listen to all the tapes you get bro, you don't have the full picture yet.

 

[sflufan]

This was game was supposed to be the link between Big Boss the Legendary Soldier and Big Boss the terrorist, wasn't it? How does the Boss go about this? What about Kaz and Him? Fuck there are just too many questions. This is going to kill me.

Big Boss had already completed his transformation into a "terrorist" by the end of Peacewalker. There was simply little or no reason for this game to exist.

 

[Ashura_MX]

Finish Episode 46 and listen to all the tapes you get bro, you don't have the full picture yet.

Thats the thing, nobody has the full picture.

 

[nns3d]

V Has Come To, Behind the Drapery & A Phantom Pain are some of my favorites from the OST

 

[BadWolf]

Thats the thing, nobody has the full picture.

I don't feel that way at all, the ending and the game overall closed the loop on the series nicely.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

Yes

Pretty much.

Proto-nanonmachines, if you will. The whole concept is pretty much reliant on you not caring about the fact these parasites seem to be able to do everything.

Pretty much; I prefer no explanation the supernatural.

That's unfortunate. I preferred the supernatural/unknown aspect as well. It made characters like Psycho Mantis, Vulcan Raven, Vamp, Sorrow, and Fortune really stand out from the rest. Grounding everyone into some kind of nano-machine reality sort of killed that uniqueness from them and made the bosses in later games stand out even less. I wonder what made him essentially retcon almost all of it(except for maybe The Sorrow). I felt like with a little more oomph and supernatural involved, Skull Face could have been a better antagonist

 

[KingHenrik30]

I don't feel that way at all, the ending and the game overall closed the loop on the series nicely.

Without giving anything significant away, does it explain how Boss went back to work for the US government? Or how he and Kaz had some sort of falling out where he was not part of Outer Heaven?

AND WHO SKULL FACE!!!

AHHHHHH!

 

[robotrock]

This is the Vita version lol

damn, how the vita supposed to vibrate

 

[SmoothBrain]

Can someone tell me what happens to the Battle Gear after "field testing" it? Seems like it just vanishes.

 

[Kevin Shields]

All I know is that if this game is a "fuck up" then I hope we see a lot of fuck ups this generation.

I'm with you. Gamers are a spoiled bunch, but I'm the same way when I get dissapointed by one of my hyped games. Kind of happened with Arkham Knight.

 

[BadWolf]

Without giving anything significant away, does it explain how Boss went back to work for the US government? Or how he and Kaz had some sort of falling out where he was not part of Outer Heaven?

AND WHO SKULL FACE!!!

AHHHHHH!

Yes

 

[JayEH]

That's unfortunate. I preferred the supernatural/unknown aspect as well. It made characters like Psycho Mantis, Vulcan Raven, Vamp, Sorrow, and Fortune really stand out from the rest. Grounding everyone into some kind of nano-machine reality sort of killed that uniqueness from them and made the bosses in later games stand out even less. I wonder what made him essentially retcon almost all of it(except for maybe The Sorrow). I felt like with a little more oomph and supernatural involved, Skull Face could have been a better antagonist

I agree. Idk why Kojima felt he needed to explain things that no one wanted answered.

 

[KingHenrik30]

Yes

Ok....thats good!