Dick Justice
Banned
So her death wish involves getting tortured and raped instead of suiciding or going out with a bang or something else. Right. as I said, flimsy as shit.
And that's why shooting Quiet is the canon choice.
SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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So her death wish involves getting tortured and raped instead of suiciding or going out with a bang or something else. Right. as I said, flimsy as shit.
And that's why shooting Quiet is the canon choice.
I thought the implication was that she allowed herself to be captured?
I also don't agree that it was meant to be a dramatic attempted rape scene. It was a torture scene that had an attempted rape tag on it. The attempted rape imo was not the focal point of the sequence. It happened entirely off screen and essentially the only part of the whole sequence that read "attempted rape" was the sound of a zipper. And I read it as the soldier going a step further into fucked upness by trying to rape her corpse after he thought he drowned her.
I was much less bothered by it then I was Paz's sequence in GZ and I thought it was handled better. The whole moment to me didn't read as "RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPEY RAPE".
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
if kojima really wanted to raise the tension at the end of the game then he would've tried to have the soldiers rape and drown DDog. At least his shitty handling of rape in a story would've affected me since i wouldn't have seen that coming
akidnamededdy
Banned
I'm just wondering why hypotheticals aren't allowed and the only conclusion I could arrive at was that you didn't know what a hypothetical was. It's a video game message board, try to relax a little. It's kind of rude of you to shut people out of the conversation for not following your arbitrary rules.
FIFY
Put on your 3D glasses...now.
She is XOF, so yeah, she was send to kill Big Boss. The other soldiers were probably just backup and securing the perimeter.
Death, not rape.
No? Do you notice how she doesn't fight back until the guard tries to rape her? She wanted to die, not get raped.
The closest Kojima gets close to actually discussing the rape he writes in is with EVA, but you kind of have to work the themes of the game to make anything from it. Like the theme of how countries ask too much personal sacrifice for the sake of "patriotism" and how it's not worth it. Naked Snake doesn't really care for EVA being assaulted since he focuses on the older scars rather than the new ones.
Does it say this in the Vita version?
Still miffed he didn't call it McDonell's
WrenchNinja
Member
This is the Vita version lol
I don't really agree with a lot of this. I think Kojima is inept at handling rape, GZ is atrocious in that regard. But the Quiet it felt realistic to me, which is fucked up sure but it's what I expect out of people(the soldiers) like that. It's not as though he was glorifying her in that moment, he even has her covered up so her torture and attempted murder isn't mixed with her nudity and sexiness. It's only after she takes her revenge and gets suited up that she's exposed and sexy and then the camera is back to zooming in on her tits like that's the iconic part of her.
And that camera pause on her boobs bothers me way way more then the attempted rape. Because the rape to me at least makes sense and feels like a condemnation of war and how horrible people become during war. The camera pause on the boobs is just gross.
Dick Justice
Banned
Calling me rude and telling me to relax, yet you're the one who had to jump to insults first (and continue to do so by questioning my intelligence). That's humorous. I guess I'll stop arguing with the mentally-deficient third-grader now.
Akiyama_AE
Member
wait if you shoot Quiet in the face who saves V snake when he gets bitten?
You just won't get the mission. You are there in the first place because you were searching for Quiet.
WrenchNinja
Member
You don't have the quiet storyline if she's dead.
Dick Justice
Banned
He never gets bitten because he never does a stupid "destroy all the tanks" mission for an idiot who keeps wasting your GMP on repeated supply drops.
Marty-esque
Member
Ever heard of rape being a weapon in war?
akidnamededdy
Banned
Good, now that you're not distracted by that kid you can get back on topic here.
Roni
Member
I kept her alive because I knew there would be some content with her. But the way she was integrated into the story, I later came to think that killing her was a pseudo-choice. Even if I did try to kill her, she would just escape and get into the chopper and everything would play out the same. I'll have to go back and try killing her.
I didn't use the butterfly to keep her or anything, she wants to go - what can we do? Just wish I knew she was going away so I wouldn't sink so much GMP on her upgrade tree. Got them shotguns that I need to develop now...
Aren't there main story beats where Quiet does something? Like when she dives into the pit to rescue the locket for the kids.
Is the story missing like 1/2 the cutscenes if you kill Quiet?
Akiyama_AE
Member
lol yeah that mission sucked.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
why are you destroying all those tanks anyhow? I forgot
Roni
Member
I wonder if we can reach 100% if we kill her. Side Op 150 would never pop-up...
Somehow the small detachment that was keeping Quiet got word out that entire tank battalion was needed. :/
Seems nobody can ever answer these questions. Like half the cutscenes involved quiet in some capacity, so what happens to the cutscenes? Is the game just wven more shorter ? And you miss out on like 3 extra missions ?
Dick Justice
Banned
You just leave the area after killing her.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
oh okay so they only needed 2 guys to guard and attempt to rape her but when they hear she got out they needed 150 tanks and a gunship
got it.
I was just thinking the same thing. Seems like most of the serious discussion and criticism has died off.
Screw you guys, I like Quiet.
*high five*
Dick Justice
Banned
GavinUK86
Member
Valkyri von Thanatos
Member
Quiet's cool, but at nearly every turn Kojima takes as many opportunities as possible to undermine her character.
I know it's self centered but I thought my speculation on the psyche and morals of Venom was interesting so I thought it might divert attention from some defending Quiet's portrayal and the discussion mostly focusing on that for who knows how long. I know the notion that Quiet is not a sexist character should be opposed, but I honestly think discussing the specifics of whether Venom even is capable of true free will, whether he even possesses any memories of BB or just knows the basics and is programmed to ignore gaps, if the Medic's "sense" is expressed in all the actions Venom does that lie outside of the expectations of acting like BB (sparing Quiet/Huey, treating Eli respectfully), etc. is a more engaging source of discussion.
Again, I am all for opposing the defense of Quiet's portrayal and the numerous plot conveniences used to objectify her, just hope the discussion can move past it again.
Edit:
I'm trying. :'|
I know it's self centered but I thought my speculation on the psyche and morals of Venom was interesting so I thought it might divert attention from some defending Quiet's portrayal and the discussion mostly focusing on that for who knows how long. I know the notion that Quiet is not a sexist character should be opposed, but I honestly think discussing the specifics of whether Venom even is capable of true free will, whether he even possesses any memories of BB or just knows the basics and is programmed to ignore gaps, if the Medic's "sense" is expressed in all the actions Venom does that lie outside of the expectations of acting like BB (sparing Quiet/Huey, treating Eli respectfully), etc. is a more engaging source of discussion.
Again, I am all for opposing the defense of Quiet's portrayal and the numerous plot conveniences used to objectify her, just hope the discussion can move past it again.
Edit:
I'm trying. :'|
Yes. And it doesn't apply here. This is just rape. And from a storytelling perspective it's really just a cheap way to build a threat. Overused. Lame. Unneeded. And without benefit of a doubt thanks to everything Quiet related in this game.
They apparently really hated Quiet to the point where they send more units than during the rebel offensive in Backup, Back Down AFTER they already successfully captured her.
The scene happens when you bring Quiet back to MB. And yeah, when you kill her the game is just a bit shorter.
Marty-esque
Member
Why doesn't it apply here?
Awesome write-up. I share your interpretation: Venom has his own "self," his own personality, and his personality hasn't changed. Rather, he simply believes he's someone that he's not.
At the most basic level, in terms of how they express themselves, we see a difference: Venom is an introvert, and Big Boss is an extrovert. Venom is passive, Type B, and Big Boss is aggressive, Type A. Venom is more of a motherly type while Big Boss is the stern father. Again, this is the way they're depicted in TPP. When Big Boss mounts his motorcycle, he tells Ocelot, "Bitch, light my cigar," and Ocelot obliges like a well-trained dog. Whereas Venom's more passive personality invited others to assert themselves over him, even when they didn't know the truth (and remember, Ocelot had hypnotized himself to forget).
This is why I find Venom to be such a tragic character. Best as I can tell, The Medic is a good guy, or at least as good as someone can be in the world of MGS. And his softhearted personality remains. But now he has this BB identity transplanted to him; it doesn't change his personality but it changes who he thinks he is. And this allows others to blow him around like a bag in the wind. Ending in his demise in Outer Heaven, serving the man he trusted with all his heart. A man who didn't organize this transformation, but readily went along with it.
It's very interesting, imo.
Screw you guys, I like Quiet.
I think we all like Quiet, we just don't like the super male gaze that also went into creating and depicting her
Rape as weapon of war isn't used against the actual target, but goes beyound. It's e.g. used in ethnic conflicts where male fighter impregnate the women with their "correct" semen. It's a form of conquest.
GavinUK86
Member
I get that. I tried to ignore the weird/sexy thing she does in the ACC and put her in the XOF outfit as soon as I could. I liked her story though.
Quiet was moved to that location a short while ago and was probably the reason that those tanks were headed there.
Notice how they all don't show up at once but there is break in the offensive (at which point Ocelot tells you to set up your traps). Back up for more was called in when shit hit the fan.
And then Venom and Quiet escape while another back up battalion is getting there.
You are so wrong, try looking up the matter online and educate yourself.
My grandfather went through WW2 and the shit they witnessed there was something else.
Notice how they all don't show up at once but there is break in the offensive (at which point Ocelot tells you to set up your traps). Back up for more was called in when shit hit the fan.
And then Venom and Quiet escape while another back up battalion is getting there.
You are so wrong, try looking up the matter online and educate yourself.
My grandfather went through WW2 and the shit they witnessed there was something else.
It's horribly uncomfortable to watch, yes, but I didn't find it offensive or anything. The idea of terrorists planting bombs in their special places is nothing new, and if anything it goes to show how incredibly depraved Skull Face could be.If we're going to discuss cringe worthy moments
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