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[Freedom = $1.05]

Heh. It's always seemed really bizarre to me that Konami never once did some kind of a remake for MG1 and 2. These games are the crux of the whole series -- every MGS builds out of them or toward them -- and yet Kojima was totally content with keeping them as MSX titles that I'd wager most MGS fans (myself included) have never touched.

they did remake them.

for mobile.

ages ago. that's what the versions included with MGS3 Subsistence are based off of. they kinda had to, too, because the MSX versions were loaded with the faces of real actors being used in a totally not legal way.

 

[Randomly Nameless]

I saw a couple people talk about it, but fuck Donald Anderson. He's the real villain of MGS now. He led the charge with AI and the Patriots.

But really, Donald Anderson was so focused on AI because he wanted to prevent his nightmare from ever becoming a reality.

 

[Vampirolol]

Eli is a demon already, Ocelot... is just chillin, Huey is a piece of shit we just didn't knew/noticed, Skull Face is a waste of a villain since he dies so soon, while having plenty of time to put his plan or part of his plan in motion.

Skull Face dies so soon yet his actions influenced all the series. He ruined Zero forever causing the IA to take the power, he destroyed the first Mother Base and the peaceful dreams of Miller and Boss, stressed Huey so much that he killed Strangelove and got banned from Outer Heaven. Every bad thing that happens comes from his "lust for revenge", that's why he is so confident that even after his death the world won't be the same. Of course the story is surreal in how much happens because of him, but still, I saw him as a great villain.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

What's this from

 

[The Silver]

Skull Face dies so soon yet his actions influenced all the series. He ruined Zero forever causing the IA to take the power, he destroyed the first Mother Base and the peaceful dreams of Miller and Boss, stressed Huey so much that he killed Strangelove and got banned from Outer Heaven. Every bad thing that happens comes from his "lust for revenge", that's why he is so confident that even after his death the world won't be the same. Of course the story is surreal in how much happens because of him, but still, I saw him as a great villain.

peaceful dreams? MSF had a goodamn nuclear equipped Metal Gear that they were hiding from everyone.

 

[Vampirolol]

peaceful dreams? MSF had a goodamn nuclear equipped Metal Gear that they were hiding from everyone.

But at least they were still dreaming about that. After GZ, Miller is obsessed with revenge and BB becomes incredibly anxious about his own life.

 

[AAMARMO]

What's this from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk7IQ7A-jbA

 

[Roni]

peaceful dreams? MSF had a goodamn nuclear equipped Metal Gear that they were hiding from everyone.

Wielding a weapon doesn't automatically make one evil. A weapon is a tool, its purpose is defined by the user.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Wielding a weapon doesn't automatically make one evil. A weapon is a tool, its purpose is defined by the user.

Bro it's a nuclear equipped Metal Gear that they SAID was for deterrence, but then hid on the seafloor so inspectors wouldn't know they had it. How does it work as a deterrent if nobody knows they have it? Something fishy was going on there.

 

[DevilFox]

There was no retcon.

The original Metal Gear, the one where he "dies" states that he survived at the end. It seems a lot of people don't know or are ignoring it, but there is a post-credits speech by Big Boss saying that he survived the encounter and that he would meet Solid Snake again.

He never died twice, not even in the original continuity.

https://youtu.be/VpmYYqxQtug?t=9896

Keep spreading the truth man, because I'm having a hard time to make this clear when people comment on my vids. I think most of them played the NES version where that conversation was removed (along with tons of stuff). But the MSX version is the original by Kojima and that's the one I'll stick with as far as canon is concerned.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

peaceful dreams? MSF had a goodamn nuclear equipped Metal Gear that they were hiding from everyone.

Peace Walker's whole plot was based around nuclear deterrence.

It was just implied that it would slippery slope into something more active than deterrence by the time of MG1 and Outer Heaven. It started out with good intentions, at least. Not saying holding a nuclear weapon under everyone's nose is a good thing to do (it's not) but Boss and Kaz had their heart in the right place, to an extent.

 

[The Silver]

But at least they were still dreaming about that. After GZ, Miller is obsessed with revenge and BB becomes incredibly anxious about his own life.

do you remember BB's speech at the end?

Talking about how they'll fight the whole world, how they'll become terrorists if they have to.

Big Boss's entire reason for rejecting the Boss is because he realized she died for peace and not because she was a soldier like him. Big Boss refuses to ever put down his gun, he doesn't want peace, it's the last thing he wants.

 

[Ishida]

Keep spreading the truth man, because I'm having a hard time to make this clear when people comment on my vids. I think most of them played the NES version where that conversation was removed (along with tons of stuff). But the MSX version is the original by Kojima and that's the one I'll stick with as far as canon is concerned.

Surprisingly, I believe the conversation is also there on the NES version.

EDIT: Or not... I was sure it was there...

 

[SJRB]

Kojima: "The fuck you lookin at, bitch"

 

[Drencrom]

Was "how did Big Boss survive MG1" actually a plothole? I could've sworn a number of the other games had already retconned that as him surviving and being turned into a cyborg for MG2.

Never was a plot hole, because who gives a fuck why/how he somehow survived and came back as a cyborg in MG2? Lots more insane and unbelievable things happen already in MGS, like how some fucking medic gets hypnotized in his coma to be practically a clone of one of the best soldiers in history.

Kojima literally went out of his way to explain something that didn't had to be, with something much more far-fetched, questionable and contrived. The fact that he thought this would be some great endgame revelation that we as players would like and gain something from is even more sad. He basically just made some nonsense story just to in the end pull the rug and have a "gotcha!" moment. The fact that the revelation isn't even tied to the story in some way is even worse. Having Venom Boss puzzling it together over the game would be much better, instead it's just some 4th wall breaking shit with him just gaining the knowledge out of nowhere (here's the "correct memory" of the intro) and then getting 20 tapes that are somehow recorded from the most secretive man on earth.

All these model swaps are really exposing the game, it reminds me of Hyrule Warriors.

Hm?

 

[Roni]

Bro it's a nuclear equipped Metal Gear that they SAID was for deterrence, but then hid on the seafloor so inspectors wouldn't know they had it. How does it work as a deterrent if nobody knows they have it? Something fishy was going on there.

So everyone and their mother would rain down on them? Best to keep it a secret until tension comes to a boiling point. By then, the time for diplomacy will be over and you announce the weapon comfortable with the intent of using it.

You don't show it to the world unless you have to.

 

[The Silver]

Peace Walker's whole plot was based around nuclear deterrence.

It was just implied that it would slippery slope into something more active than deterrence by the time of MG1 and Outer Heaven. It started out with good intentions, at least. Not saying holding a nuclear weapon under everyone's nose is a good thing to do (it's not) but Boss and Kaz had their heart in the right place, to an extent.

MSF is the same thing as Outer Heaven in MG1, an independant mercenary"fortress/base" for soldiers to do what they do and it houses a Metal Gear inside of it.(It helps that OH isn't really elaborated on)

The only thing different with OH is that the Metal Gear got leaked and so the rest of the world villified them and wanted them taken down, the exact same thing could've happened to MSF.

 

[Stereogatari]

yeah usually radio call signs are for aircraft not pilots

morpho was the same way i think

Oh shit I forgot abput Morpho.

 

[DevilFox]

Surprisingly, I believe the conversation is also there on the NES version.

EDIT: Or not... I was sure it was there...

Pretty sure it's not there because I played the NES version and I'd never knew about it if it wasn't for internet. Fun fact: the HD Collection includes the MSX versions.. I guess no one bothered to play the ports of MG and MG2, then.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Oh shit I forgot abput Morpho.

The hero we truly deserved

MSF is the same thing as Outer Heaven in MG1, an independant mercenary"fortress/base" for soldiers to do what they and it houses a Metal Gear inside of it.(It helps that OH isn't really elaborated on)

The only thing different with OH is that the Metal Gear got leaked and so the rest of the world villified them and wanted them taken down, the exact same thing could've happened to MSF.

Good point. I guess BB/V never actually threatened anyone from Outer Heaven. MG is so damn vague compared to the rest of the series now. It has more plot exposition in the games that refer to it in retrospect than it does on its own.

 

[Stereogatari]

Hahahaha where's the full vid?

 

[Edzi]

Peace Walker's whole plot was based around nuclear deterrence.

It was just implied that it would slippery slope into something more active than deterrence by the time of MG1 and Outer Heaven. It started out with good intentions, at least. Not saying holding a nuclear weapon under everyone's nose is a good thing to do (it's not) but Boss and Kaz had their heart in the right place, to an extent.

Rejecting The Boss seems like the exact opposite of what the MGS3 ending implied. It's why I'll always hate what PW did to the story.

 

[Neiteio]

Bro it's a nuclear equipped Metal Gear that they SAID was for deterrence, but then hid on the seafloor so inspectors wouldn't know they had it. How does it work as a deterrent if nobody knows they have it? Something fishy was going on there.

They actually discuss this exact topic in one of the GZ tapes (which also might've been a PW tape, I can't remember).

They talk about how other countries flaunt their nukes in the open and ward off threats that way, but the way MSF planned to use ZEKE was as a trump card if another country tried to encroach on their freedom.

In other words, don't draw unwanted attention by letting everyone know you have a nuke, and only show the nuke if someone comes after you. Like having a concealed weapon strapped to your chest and opening your jacket to show it to a would-be robber.

 

[KOMANI]

So what you're saying is Venom Snake is still out there?

Spoiler

jk

 

[brau]

This looks like it's straight from Monday Night Raw.

lol.. where is this from? haha

 

[The Silver]

The hero we truly deserved


Good point. I guess BB/V never actually threatened anyone from Outer Heaven. MG is so damn vague compared to the rest of the series now. It has more plot exposition in the games that refer to it in retrospect than it does on its own.

Thinking about it a lot more, PW really did bridge the gap to Metal Gear 1 at least.

It's MG2 that's the problem, Zanzibar Land was on some crazy "burn the whole world down" shit.

 

[Neiteio]

The way it's been retconned, Solid Snake killed Venom (which is more believable — I mean, he was there when he died) but the real Big Boss continued the illusion it was one man all along by claiming he survived. People can argue whether it was 100% necessary, but I don't see it as problematic.

I like the shadow that TPP casts on BB's character since he went along with the body double scheme rather than challenging it once he learned about it. No second thoughts from him on stealing a man's identity and putting his army in the crosshairs. Heck, he didn't even question sacrificing the hospital to slow down XOF.

I see the events of TPP as Big Boss' "Hiroshima" moment, where in his eyes, the ends justify the means. He's now at a point where his ambitions are so important that he's compromising the values that motivated him in the first place. There was a time when he would've resisted the idea of using others like the U.S. government used The Boss. But he's no longer that man.

 

[SJRB]

How/why was Big Boss a cyborg in MG2 anyway if he never was in Outer Heaven?

 

[Neiteio]

How/why was Big Boss a cyborg in MG2 anyway if he never was in Outer Heaven?

Presumably something that happened while he was founding Zanzibarland. Or perhaps he did it to make himself stronger, or to complete the illusion that he had "died" at Outer Heaven.

Just speculation on my part.

 

[JackelZXA]

Rejecting The Boss seems like the exact opposite of what the MGS3 ending implied. It's why I'll always hate what PW did to the story.

It's not so much rejecting her as she basically just gave up and it took him a while to realize that's why he couldn't get over her death. (Otherwise he'd have stood by her loyalty and inherited it)

Presumably something that happened while he was founding Zanzibarland. Or perhaps he did it to make himself stronger, or to complete the illusion that he had "died" at Outer Heaven.

Just speculation on my part.

I'm pretty sure the context is "I heard he's become a cyborg", but it's not represented in his design in MG2 or by anything snake says. There are no first hand accounts is what i'm saying. The implication would then fall on rumors that could have been started by venom snake representing the name of big boss, instead.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

How/why was Big Boss a cyborg in MG2 anyway if he never was in Outer Heaven?

he got hit with a retcon so hard that it nearly shattered his entire body

 

[Alienous]

How/why was Big Boss a cyborg in MG2 anyway if he never was in Outer Heaven?

He isn't, is he? r, at least, it wasn't confirmed that he was.

That was only ever a rumour from a codec call.

 

[ElFly]

There was not a lot more either Big Bosses could have done at the cyprus Hospital. Both had woke up from their coma just weeks before. Original Big Boss has a ton of trouble bringing down a parasite-less Quiet, something he could have done super easily in his prime.

 

[AAMARMO]

This looks like it's straight from Monday Night Raw.

Enjoy :3

 

[Majine]

Wait, who wanted to kill Big Boss again? Stop me where I'm wrong, but... Zero was the leader of Cipher, he kept him alive, visited him and even was the proponent of the whole switcheroo thing.

So it wasn't Cipher who sent those soldiers to the hospital?

 

[Edzi]

It's not so much rejecting her as she basically just gave up and it took him a while to realize that's why he couldn't get over her death. (Otherwise he'd have stood by her loyalty and inherited it)

The whole premise of PW is that BB didn't understand The Boss's sacrifice in MGS3, which imo, directly cheapens that games ending. I know I'm biased since MGS3 is one of my absolute favorite games of all time, but I just cannot stand how much Kojima undermines that game with its sequels.

 

[Neiteio]

I'm pretty sure the context is "I heard he's become a cyborg", but it's not represented in his design in MG2 or by anything snake says. There are no first hand accounts is what i'm saying. The implication would then fall on rumors that could have been started by venom snake representing the name of big boss, instead.

Actually, yeah, you're probably right

 

[Neiteio]

Wait, who wanted to kill Big Boss again? Stop me where I'm wrong, but... Zero was the leader of Cipher, he kept him alive, visited him and even was the proponent of the whole switcheroo thing.

So it wasn't Cipher who sent those soldiers to the hospital?

Skull Face and XOF worked for Cipher but Skull Face was going rogue and acting against Zero's orders

 

[Alienous]

There was not a lot more either Big Bosses could have done at the cyprus Hospital. Both had woke up from their coma just weeks before. Original Big Boss has a ton of trouble bringing down a parasite-less Quiet, something he could have done super easily in his prime.

No he couldn't, Quiet was just a well trained soldier.

Which brings up a plot hole. Big Sissy wakes up from his coma a matter of weeks before Medic Boss, but he has his muscle mass. So he left the hospital to train then came back?

Goofy shit story.

 

[KOMANI]

Enjoy :3

I laughed so hard I farted

Spoiler

Lshif

 

[ElFly]

No he couldn't, Quiet was just a well trained soldier.

Which brings up a plot hole. Big Sissy wakes up from his coma a matter of weeks before Medic Boss, but he has his muscle mass. So he left the hospital to train then came back?

Both had their muscle mass kept by electrical massaging; but Venom woke up later so he is not completely recovered; OG BB had woken up earlier so he was in better shape, but prolly not at his prime either. I assume that when BB woke up he still had most of his muscle tone, but was still weak just as Venom in the intro. He had more time to recover.

AFAIK Ishmael was at Venom's side all the time.

 

[Inferno313]

Wait, who wanted to kill Big Boss again? Stop me where I'm wrong, but... Zero was the leader of Cipher, he kept him alive, visited him and even was the proponent of the whole switcheroo thing.

So it wasn't Cipher who sent those soldiers to the hospital?

It was XOF, which splintered off from Cipher, as far as I know.

 

[Alienous]

Both had their muscle mass kept by electrical massaging; but Venom woke up later so he is not completely recovered; OG BB had woken up earlier so he was in better shape, but prolly not at his prime either.

AFAIK Ishmael was at Venom's side all the time.

9 years in a coma left Medic Boss' muscles all atrophied and shit.

But Big Sissy was in a coma for about the same amount of time, so his muscles should be in a similar condition, unless he decided to train. So was he running laps around the hospital?

 

[Neiteio]

No he couldn't, Quiet was just a well trained soldier.

Which brings up a plot hole. Big Sissy wakes up from his coma a matter of weeks before Medic Boss, but he has his muscle mass. So he left the hospital to train then came back?

Goofy shit story.

They explain that the coma patients had their muscle mass maintained with massage therapy, electroshock therapy, etc. Doctor rattles off a list at the start. BB was just a bit better because he had been awake longer.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Wait, Pequod was the name of the ship in Moby Dick?

Ahhhh, it's so obvious now!

 

[ElFly]

9 years in a coma left Medic Boss' muscles all atrophied and shit.

But Big Sissy was in a coma for about the same amount of time, so his muscles should be in a similar condition, unless he decided to train. So was he running laps around the hospital?

They both received treatment to prevent muscle atrophy. It is not perfect, as BB problems with Quiet show.

It doesn't mean they woke up one die as if nothing; Venom was probably also groogy from the anesthetics needed for his plastic surgery

 

[Neiteio]

9 years in a coma left Medic Boss' muscles all atrophied and shit.

But Big Sissy was in a coma for about the same amount of time, so his muscles should be in a similar condition, unless he decided to train. So was he running laps around the hospital?

By the end of the night, they're both moving around just fine. Venom just struggled for the first five minutes because he had just stepped out of bed. BB had been up and walking around for weeks at that point.

 

[A-V-B]

Someone posted this in the first threat or in the second? I don't remember. Anyway, I think it's worth re-posting again:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...moby-dick-i-s-first-critics-to-pan-it/281499/

From the article:

The review concluded by ridiculing the novel for its employment of a first-person narrative—a peculiar choice, the reviewer scoffed, since "not only is Ahab, with his boat's-crew, destroyed in his last desperate attack upon the white whale, but the Pequod herself sinks with all on board into the depths of the illimitable ocean."

Except, of course, not every member of the boat's-crew in Moby-Dick sinks with the Pequod. There is—spoiler!—a significant survivor of the wreck. And he goes on to tell the tale. Call him Ishmael.

Which is, in part, how the book that is today regarded as one of the best novels ever written became, to many of its contemporary readers, something of a disappointment. (London Examiner, November 1851: "We cannot say that we recognize in this writer any advance on the admirable qualities displayed in his earlier books—we do not see that he even greatly cares to put forth the strength of which he has shown himself undoubtedly possessed.")

Not all the reviews were negative. Not all the negative reviews had to do with the missing pages. Still, though: Imagine being Herman Melville. Imagine writing Moby-Dick. And imagine, then, reading that dismissive assessment of your work. Nearly one-half of this book! Imagine being confused, indignant, furious, worried.

Moby Dick was a complete book, and a great character study.

 

[Alienous]

They explain that the coma patients had their muscle mass maintained with massage therapy, electroshock therapy, etc. Doctor rattles off a list at the start. BB was just a bit better because he had been awake longer.

No, Big Sissy (as Ishamel) has his regular build despite being in a coma for 9 years, whereas Medic Boss is skinny and such. I believe someone in this thread mentioned a tape explaining that Medic Boss gained back a lot of his muscle mass through things like steroids (or something like that), so I'd assume Ishamel Big Sissy had to do the same thing. So if he was in a condition to get up, train, use steroids, whatever, did he just return to his bed? Where did he train? In the hospital?

 

[Neiteio]

Moby Dick was a complete book, and a great character study.

Yeah, but all the fanboys hated it back when it came out. A lot of literary classics followed a similar trajectory, where people thought they were terrible when they came out but then brilliant generations later.

Not saying that will or won't happen with TPP. I mean, how could I, I'm part of the "Day One" crowd. It's for later generations to decide.