Multiple fatalities reported at Umpqua Community College shooting in Oregon

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Htown said:
We don't do it very often, and you're never going to get 2/3 of the Congress and 3/4 of the states to get rid of anything in the Bill of Rights.
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We do it more often than you think, the courts can and do change the constitution every now and again. The way you're describing is but one way, the hardest way, to do it. A shift in the balance of the court and the right case at the right time and there you go.

Note: I'm not talking about banning guns, but on stricter regulations.
 
Blader said:
The fuck? No. You extrapolated the complete opposite point somehow.

Reforming and improving our mental healthcare system would absolutely have a demonstrable, positive impact on curtailing mass shootings. But it's also a much more time-intensive and resources-intensive initiative than, say, implementing universal backgrounds or databases. That's why the gun lobby and conservatives will point to mental health reform over gun control as a response to these situations -- because they know it's right, they know there's no opposition to the fact that mental health needs an overhaul, but they also know it would be a much bigger and time-consuming endeavor than simple gun control measures. Instead of worrying about how we can avoid this next week, it's worry about how we can stop this 10 years from now -- all the while gun access and mass shootings remain undeterred for the weeks, months, and years in between.
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Don't forget that conservatives have absolutely zero intent of reforming the health care system to make it easier for people to get care. What potentially mentally ill person would want to be willing to get treatment if they didn't think there was anything wrong with them and they had to foot a huge bill for it? The system obviously needs reform but the people crying "mental illness" after every shooting are just concern trolling on a national level.
 
Drensch said:
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4. There needs to be political will on both sides of the issue( gun rights vs gun control) for something to happen. But the way the sides are entrenched right now, it's not likely.
Any sort of gun control should be based in data and reality, not OMG that gun is scary, which so much of it is based in.
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Then tell the government to first get rid of the 2012 law that literally bans the government from researching anything related to gun use. This is the kind of shit that is driving people to ask for straight bans because the whole system related to how our government treats guns is a travesty.
 
minor effort said:
Question for people who like guns, or think guns are cool: Why do you like guns? Why do you think guns are cool?

At the very least, are you not deeply conflicted with your love for guns? Do you think guns are supposed to be fun toys?
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Because a gun saved my life. I was car jacked coming home from the shooting range and was shot. I shot him back a few times and was stopped in his tracks. If I didn't shoot him I would be dead right now.


I don't conceal carry any more and I only use my shotgun for dove hunting and a rifle for the occasional feral hog hunting every so often as well as target shooting competitions.
 
How much do you think the glorification of the crime and the person who committed it affects the modern frequency of these shootings?

For example, what if mass shootings were treated more cut and dry. Obviously safety bulletins and reporting what happened to the local community is important. But not focus on much on it besides just basic information. I guess that's impossible given that news gets clicks and views from horrible events like this ( see nightcrawler ).

But do you think if these individuals would still commit mass murder if it wasn't likely to get them national attention?
 
Ashok said:
Because it's a Constitutional right. That's why. And there are a million legitimate reasons to own a firearm ranging from sporting activities, hunting, self defense, providing future generations for security against tyranny even if we live under a just government, etc. You can't just go around banning every single thing that carries a potential risk in life.
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None of those "legitimate reasons" come close to outweighing the dangers, do you honestly expect people to care about others who want to go hunting for sport in light of reports such as these? The providing security against tyranny excuse is the most ridiculous one.
 
minor effort said:
Question for people who like guns, or think guns are cool: Why do you like guns? Why do you think guns are cool?

At the very least, are you not deeply conflicted with your love for guns? Do you think guns are supposed to be fun toys?
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I don't really fall into the category of people you're trying to ask this to but I wanted to answer anyway. I don't really "like" guns or "think they're cool", however I enjoy bird hunting so... yeah, I kind of have to "like" guns to a certain degree. I would say, yes, I'm conflicted. I enjoy hunting but at the same time I feel this country needs to tighten up gun laws dramatically. Also, I would think (and hope) that no responsible gun owner considers a gun a toy.
 
Ashok said:
Because it's a Constitutional right. That's why. And there are a million legitimate reasons to own a firearm ranging from sporting activities, hunting, self defense, providing future generations for security against tyranny even if we live under a just government, etc. You can't just go around banning every single thing that carries a potential risk in life.
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It's a good thing there's basically no equivalent of another legal thing people can use to kill tens or even hundreds of people all at once.

I mean, you know there's a very large chance of it happening on Star Wars opening night, right? Theaters will never be as packed as they will be on that night, it's like psychopath Christmas come early, and we're the sardines.

Does this give you any semblance of pause? Who has time to worry about the military descending upon us when we're busy wiping each other out ourselves?
 
Brian Williams on NBC calling this a 'mass casualty event.'

We should call these things what they are:

-- A 2nd-amendment supported mass murder

-- An NRA-sponsored mass murder

-- A completely, 100% preventable mass murder of innocents sponsored and supported and encouraged by greedy lunatic misanthropes.

Take the guns away. No more excuses. Repeal the 2nd amendment. Start somewhere. It's going to get worse before it gets better.
 
B-Dubs said:
We do it more often than you think, the courts can and do change the constitution every now and again. The way you're describing is but one way, the hardest way, to do it. A shift in the balance of the court and the right case at the right time and there you go.

Note: I'm not talking about banning guns, but on stricter regulations.
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I'm legitimately frightened of what would happen if a court or congress legitimately tried to take away people's 2nd amendment rights.

More and more, the people who talk about needing to "fight the government" someday sound like they're talking specifically about the day when the government comes for their guns, not some wider picture.

Gun control needs to be slow and methodical, erode away some of the more problematic aspects one at a time. Otherwise it'd be a disaster.
 
HariKari said:
No responsible owner thinks that. They take handling and storage very, very seriously. At a proper range, if you don't follow the rules, they throw your ass out. They're not toys. There's a subset of gun owners that probably think they are. The same types that take selfies with them aiming at a mirror or whatever. These people wouldn't have firearms if they were more traceable and required more training/licensing/storage etc...
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I'm glad you think that, and I believe you.

Unfortunately after every tragedy like this I see pictures of people proudly posing for photos holding their guns, bringing them on-person in public areas, and generally acting fanboyish towards their guns. In essence, there's a staggering amount of people who own guns primarily for fun. And that's no longer defensible.
 
Virzeth said:
I can't believe I just read that.

WOW.
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Wow what? You shocked people own firearms in a nation that's had that right since before they were born and don't want to give them up? I don't plan to give up my firearms either.

But we can say that yet readily concede there need to be some pretty decent gun law changes across the nation. Like I said we can look at gun law differences between States and see what works and what doesn't.

Here in NY it's a lengthy process to get a handgun permit and such a permit is required not just to carry a pistol (you can't in NY) but to own one even just for the home.

-Interview with the police
-Photo taken
-FIngerprints taken
-Detailed background check (More involved that just the federal NICS)
-Firearm registered
-Must provide character references and they can't be family members
-They call your spouse to confirm they are comfortable with your owning a firearm
-Must list ANY narcotic medications you've EVER taken
-List any traffic violations in the last 5 years.

And it takes 10+ months to get a yes/no on your application.

We hate it and complain about it but at the same time it doesn't violate the Second Amendment and takes effort to actually go and obtain and it's not something that can be given to Little Billy for his 18th birthday.

I'm thinking perhaps the process should be involved and thorough.

Veritigo_X said:
I feel like gun owners are praying for this to happen with how much they talk about it.
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I mean sure there are a bunch of Bundy Ranchers that have raging hard-ons for a showdown with the Federal Government.

But you'd be a fool at best or intellectually dishonest at worst to pretend that represents your average gun owner. Your average gun owner isn't very political and won't oppose changes to gun laws.
 
This is so ridiculous now. Those poor people who've been killed. Just ban guns, simple.

But after all the other threads... Not. Even. Going. To. Bother... :(
 
One of those gun owners saved my life. If that man would not have had his weapon, I wouldn't be here posting today. My life was saved and he didn't even need to harm my assailant because he wasn't mental and knew what he was doing. I understand where you're coming from, and what you want. I want that more than anything too, and I guess I don't claim to have any solutions. What happened today is horrible, sickening. I don't want it to happen anymore than anyone else on this forum. But it's possible that if what you want to have was a reality then I may have been killed. It scares me, and keeps me up every night. I just wanted you to know good things can come of this, I just wish their was an obvious solution so tragedies like this would never happen. Sorry for the long post, I just got emotional over it...
 
Amory said:
I'm legitimately frightened of what would happen if a court or congress legitimately tried to take away people's 2nd amendment rights.

More and more, the people who talk about needing to "fight the government" someday sound like they're talking specifically about the day when the government comes for their guns, not some wider picture.

Gun control needs to be slow and methodical, erode away some of the more problematic aspects one at a time. Otherwise it'd be a disaster.
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No need to take their guns forcefully. Ban guns going forward. Institute a buyback program where the incentives are placed at the proper point. Tax bullets.

Done.
 
BiggNife said:
So sick of this argument.

The Constitution is not infallible. It is not some magical piece of paper that is always right. Gun ownership was a very different thing 200 years ago.
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No, it's not infallible, but it does carry more legal power than anything else in the United States. If you pass a law that the Supreme Court thinks goes against the Constitution, it is invalidated.

When someone says "it's a Constitutional right", that's not just a theoretical or cultural argument (though there is that aspect), it's a recognition that because of the legal status of the Constitution you have a limited amount of wiggle room.
 
Dane_gerClose said:
One of those gun owners saved my life. If that man would not have had his weapon, I wouldn't be here posting today. My life was saved and he didn't even need to harm my assailant because he wasn't mental and knew what he was doing. I understand where you're coming from, and what you want. I want that more than anything too, and I guess I don't claim to have any solutions. What happened today is horrible, sickening. I don't want it to happen anymore than anyone else on this forum. But it's possible that if what you want to have was a reality then I may have been killed. It scares me, and keeps me up every night. I just wanted you to know good things can come of this, I just wish their was an obvious solution so tragedies like this would never happen. Sorry for the long post, I just got emotional over it...
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What did the guy save you from?
 
Kama_1082 said:
Because a gun saved my life. I was car jacked coming home from the shooting range and was shot. I shot him back a few times and was stopped in his tracks. If I didn't shoot him I would be dead right now.
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Nearly everyone I've met online who made a claim like this turned out was lying.
 
PBY said:
No need to take their guns forcefully. Ban guns going forward. Institute a buyback program where the incentives are placed at the proper point. Tax bullets.

Done.
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That was meant to be a reply to PBY, apologies. Reading this post alters what I said previously. I feel this is a viable solution.
 
Kama_1082 said:
Because a gun saved my life. I was car jacked coming home from the shooting range and was shot. I shot him back a few times and was stopped in his tracks. If I didn't shoot him I would be dead right now.


I don't conceal carry any more and I only use my shotgun for dove hunting and a rifle for the occasional feral hog hunting every so often as well as target shooting competitions.
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I'm from the UK and I facepalmed and laughed at this statement.
 
Htown said:
No, it's not infallible, but it does carry more legal power than anything else in the United States. If you pass a law that the Supreme Court thinks goes against the Constitution, it is invalidated.

When someone says "it's a Constitutional right", that's not just a theoretical or cultural argument (though there is that aspect), it's a recognition that because of the legal status of the Constitution you have a limited amount of wiggle room.
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duh?? why do you think people want the 2nd amendment repealed.
 
minor effort said:
Question for people who like guns, or think guns are cool: Why do you like guns? Why do you think guns are cool?

At the very least, are you not deeply conflicted with your love for guns? Do you think guns are supposed to be fun toys?
Click to expand...

They're a fun hobby as long as they're in the right hands and safety is a top priority. It's hard to understand unless you've grown up with them or go shooting a lot in the same way that it's hard for some people to understand videogames without playing them. Target shooting is fun. Hunting is a great way to experience the outdoors and spend time with family or friends. Unfortunately guns are sometimes not in the right hands, and some people don't take safety seriously. That's why I feel we need laws that keep guns in safe hands, not laws that strip them away from everyone.

HyperionX said:
Nearly everyone I've met online who made a claim like this turned out was lying.
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Well I guess he must be lying then! smh

The Lamonster said:
edit: ^ good stuff, PL

oh shit the Piggus guy is back
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Oh no, that guy with a different opinion than mine is posting!
 
Switch Back 9 said:
See this is the one repeating argument I just don't understand. You think your 9mm pistol is going to keep you safe from drones and F-35s? Get real, the entire armed population of America would last like 15 minutes against the most powerful military in the history of humankind. Don't be fucking ridiculous, what a stupid, stupid argument.

It's absurd. The mental gymnastics involved in thinking some redneck fuck with a few guns would last longer than 5 seconds against a trained soldier with the US Military behind him is beyond ridiculous.
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Huh, so you think an armed, well-connected American populace would last 15 minutes, while US forces can't even destroy stone age cave dwellers with guns in the middle east? That's pretty interesting.

And you also think the military would just feel perfectly fine about turning their weapons on their friends and families? Or how about on veterans?

And you think that nobody in the military believes that personal gun ownership is a basic right?

And you think that the military would have no problem just rolling into residential areas and blowing the shit out of homes? Or in your imagination do they just throw another amendment out and just do random searches and seizures?

Do you think the media would just happily go along and say, hey, everything is cool, do what the government says? While meanwhile online there are nonstop cell phone recordings of the military gunning down innocent people?

I mean, these are the things you have to believe if you feel that such a conflict would not only be over in 15 minutes, but be won by the US government at all.
 
B-Dubs said:
We do it more often than you think, the courts can and do change the constitution every now and again. The way you're describing is but one way, the hardest way, to do it. A shift in the balance of the court and the right case at the right time and there you go.
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Sure, but in general terms the court tends to expand the power of constitutional provisions over time rather than curtail them.

Note: I'm not talking about banning guns, but on stricter regulations.
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Fair enough.
 
Piggus said:
They're a fun hobby as long as they're in the right hands and safety is a top priority. Target shooting is fun. Hunting is a great way to experience the outdoors and spend time with family or friends. Unfortunately guns are sometimes not in the right hands, and some people don't take safety seriously. That's why I feel we need laws that keep guns in safe hands, not laws that strip them away from everyone.
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You could just rent guns for both of those things. There's no reason you'd need to have your own guns to do either activity.
 
I have no problem with people owning guns, what I have a problem with is how easy they are to get. It should not be so easy. There should be more rules and regulation just like vehicles.

Incredibly sad for the people who lost their lives and family today.
 
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