Fallout 4 has gone gold; leaked gameplay vids

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I feel much of fans fears could be alleviated if Bethesda weren't being so secretive about the game. Sure it's nice to go in surprised but when you've shown only ~30 minutes of proper gameplay, with much of that from the games beginning...you should expect people to be a bit concerned.
 
fantomena said:
Right now he doesn't. Just because Bethesda has been creating their games equal in many aspects doesn't mean that pattern won't break.
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There have been posts on reddit showing the full perk system, tons of screenshots, some videos of the first couple missions and of course the Bethesda sponsored trailers.

Not too hard to see what you are getting here.
 
Daft_Cat said:
Not to beat a dead horse here, but that picture is comparing the first bit of optional dialogue in Fallout 4 with rather dense quest chatter that appears deep into the other games. The following would seem to be the more apt comparison:



Sure the dialogue is not written in such detail on the 'wheel', but given that you hear your character speak in fully fleshed out sentences, is the difference really all that meaningful? In any case, chances are the more robust dialogue sequences in Fallout 4 will feature an "investigate" tab.
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The main problem is that you don't have a clue what your character will actually say, just a general idea that might be totally not what you intended. (See: LA Noire's dialog options)
 
ymgve said:
The main problem is that you don't have a clue what your character will actually say, just a general idea that might be totally not what you intended. (See: LA Noire's dialog options)
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That seems like a bit of a reach. Plenty of games have pulled off this sort of system in a robust and meaningful way. Bioware's jump in dialogue mechanics from KOTOR to Mass Effect comes to mind.
 
EviLore said:
Sarcastic
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Good Morning




But in all seriousness, I'm not really a fan of the dialogue changes at the moment. Bethesda games are special since they're pretty much the most immersive RPG's out there. A fully voiced character and less dialogue options really detracts from that IMO.
 
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itt
 
Zophar said:
People understand that fewer dialogue options doesn't preclude the possibility of more paths through a conversation right?

In a past Fallout game a conversation might give you 6/7 options for continuing a conversation only 2 or 3 times in a conversation. But, if you only have 4 options at once but get to utilize them 7/8 times in a conversation then that actually leads to a -more- dynamic dialogue system.
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This. How about waiting until the game is out to see how the dialogue lends itself to the world building, role playing, and overall narrative instead of jumping to conclusions based off a screenshot from the prologue and videos of .5% of the game.

I always like to reload and experiment with different dialogue options in Beth. games and just as you say, a lot of them are completely arbitrary and have no real impact on how things play out--cutting that fat isn't necessarily a bad thing.
 
Aces&Eights said:
There have been posts on reddit showing the full perk system, tons of screenshots, some videos of the first couple missions and of course the Bethesda sponsored trailers.

Not too hard to see what you are getting here.
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Well, not true, actually. If you personally believe you know enough about the game to justify pre-ordering - fair enough. It's your money, I'm not going to tell you what to do with it.

But saying you know what you're getting, implying you know you'll get your money's worth, is naive.
 
Real Hero said:
change can suck though
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I totally agree, I just feel like a lot of the people in this thread are really reaching. We've seen a very small fraction of what I am sure is a very, very large game. The fact that people are cancelling preorders based on a different dialogue system is baffling to me. (Preorders are dumb tho)

Rushersauce said:
Because every change is good, amirite?
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Solid Samus said:
itp in order to 'like' change, you have to like every change ever made to anything
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Askherserenity said:
You're right. Let's just be happy about shitty changes.

Here, take my $60 Bethesda, do whatever you want to me.
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Edit: added more people putting words in my mouth

edit #2: I was just making a joke that people in this thread don't like change. Did i say I disagree? No. Y'all are acting like I'm shitting all over you but I never did anything of the sort
 
vocab said:
I don't know why book writers even bother to make their books over 200 pages long, it's all just flavor text that serve no purpose when the end result is the same.

Ya man, http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Beyond_the_Beef

All flavor text

What's next you going to tell me reactivity doesn't matter in rpg's either?
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You're being pedantic at this point. Obviously the entire game wasn't just "flavor text" in the way you responded to others (which isn't even close to what I said).

However people are going on and on as if the games they played couldn't have been serviced by this system. And that's nonsense. What exactly in "Beyond the Beef" or the Lanius conversation that has been floated about, can not be achieved in this new dialog system?
 
Pseudo_Sam said:
WAY different games, Bethesda's require a level of interactivity that VASTLY dwarfs any standard FPS. Not quite a fair comparison
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Bethesda's worlds really aren't that complex. They're just big maps with havoc physics, a Deus Ex style item position checklist, and some basic AI routines. The reason it looks so bad is probably just because their engine is a pile of garbage. Skyrim on PS3 pretty much becomes unplayable once your save files reaches a certain size.
 
Muntu said:
Well, not true, actually. If you personally believe you know enough about the game to justify pre-ordering - fair enough. It's your money, I'm not going to tell you what to do with it.

But saying you know what you're getting, implying you know you'll get your money's worth, is naive.
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I'm not talking about preordering. I'm saying from all the info that had been leaked, you can get a good perspective on what this game has to offer. Sure, 3 hours in the game could become a 2d platformer and only use two colors but I doubt it.
 
ANDS said:
The Bethesda Fallout series?
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No, the entire Fallout series.

ANDS said:
And this all ignores that the previous two Fallout games weren't particularly deep in the dialog itself. All it did was throw a bunch of text at you that you could click through at your hearts content and be as inconsistent in your tone as you wanted. It wasn't a sacred calf that was integral to the overall gameplay. All it did was allow you to choose one of a few flavor texts that often had no impact and just satisfied RP purposes.
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The dialogue contributed to character and world building. Considering this is a role playing game, I think that flavour/RP text is very very important. It's a big part of what makes NV my favourite role playing game and what made FO1 & 2 so interesting. It's why people love games like Planescape despite all the systems being ropey as fuck.

Yes, you can reduce all of it to "flavour" text that had "no impact and just satisfied RP purposes" if you want. You can discard it as "largely meaningless", too. By the same spiralling logic, I can reduce all video games down to ineffectual wastes of time where blinking lights and occasional sounds are used to generate nothing more than Pavlovian button pushing from players. That kind of reductive reasoning doesn't quite capture what's special about either thing, does it?

ANDS said:
You can all pat yourselves on the back at how your preference for a largely meaningless system...
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To you.

ANDS said:
...in the previous games make your tastes somehow more evolved than others who don't see a problem with the dialog wheel (especially given how we've not seen much of it), but that doesn't make it anymore legit.
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How have you inferred that from anything that's been said...?

Person A likes one thing. Person B likes another. Neither are suggesting they are "more evolved" than the other. Why are you feeling so persecuted by people's disappointment in a seemingly reduced gameplay system that you don't even care about...?
 
Golden Hamster said:
I totally agree, I just feel like a lot of the people in this thread are really reaching. We've seen a very small fraction of what I am sure is a very, very large game. The fact that people are cancelling preorders based on a different dialogue system is baffling to me. (Preorders are dumb tho)
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It's the same thing in every fallout thread. There will be the people that like fallout 3 or NV better but they don't resist shitting on others.

Who knows how Fallout 4 will turn out but with how good Fallout 3 was, I have faith in Fallout 4 maybe it is misplaced.
 
Aces&Eights said:
I'm not talking about preordering. I'm saying from all the info that had been leaked, you can get a good perspective on what this game has to offer. Sure, 3 hours in the game could become a 2d platformer and only use two colors but I doubt it.
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Oh alright, yeah, sure
 
ANDS said:
You're being pedantic at this point. Obviously the entire game wasn't just "flavor text" in the way you responded to others (which isn't even close to what I said).

However people are going on and on as if the games they played couldn't have been serviced by this system. And that's nonsense. What exactly in "Beyond the Beef" or the Lanius conversation that has been floated about, can not be achieved in this new dialog system?
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As Ravel opens her mouth to speak her final question, you are suddenly gripped with the terrible realization that this final question has murdered many others to whom it has been asked. You know what it is, and you feel it welling up within you, and you feel compelled to ask it.

I don't know. (Y)
(X) Sarcastic. Nature LOL. (B)
................... (A) [Shoot Ravel]
 
valkyre said:
I dont think people here criticize the choice of 30 fps on consoles, rather than the general technical aspect of the game that is nowhere near what it should have been.

People keep finding lame excuses for the lack of decent polishing. Fallout 3 and especially Skyrim were fine looking games when they were released. They looked "next gen". How did they manage offering that then?

Its even more ridiculous claiming that Bethesda has done everything humanly possible considering today's available technology with their engine, citing player interaction as an excuse. Quite absurd actually.
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Neither fallout 3 or skyrim looked "next gen" when they were released. Oblivion compared to everything else on the market looked next gen. And ofc they didn't do everything possible, but if they were, the game would probably never come out and there's quite a good chance that their next game will look much better. Player interaction and more data collection than pretty much any other open world game is perfectly acceptable at 30fps on consoles. At 1080p as well.
 
Already had this conversation. An RPG isn't just defined by how much choice the developer gives to the player. If that were so there would be little to no JRPG's.
 
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
Yeah the "doubt" choice or whatever it was that caused Cole to go ballistic was originally "coerce" or something like that.
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Didn't Alpha Protocol have a similar situation? I remember that was one of the few games where I had regular trouble with some of the responses. Never an issue with BioWare games and only some occasional misunderstandings with TellTale's games.
 
ANDS said:
Already had this conversation. An RPG isn't just defined by how much choice the developer gives to the player. If that were so there would be little to no JRPG's.
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They're two totally different traditions. WRPGs are born from tabletop roleplaying, so it stresses freedom of character creation and choice within the game environment. Choice is a part of the gameplay and the direction of the game's progress.

JRPGs are more about playing as the characters given. You're seeing the story through their eyes, so the story is much more rigid/scripted, and gameplay is more about that storyline and the mechanics of the system.

Fallout 4 moves it increasingly further away from its WRPG roots.
 
Do we have screenshots of the dialogue interface on PC?
Maybe its just a console thing.

I don't like the layout, especially if you will have more text for each option.

Edit:
StMeph said:
Fallout 4 moves it increasingly further away from its WRPG roots.
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lol c'mon now
 
Bethesda really shouldn't have been so secretive with gameplay. Showing atleast one other lengthy gameplay video a few weeks/week before launch would have alleviated many people's concerns. Now people get their hands on the game and the first thing we as costumers see since E3 are badly shot, poor quality videos. Now it's too late, those first impressions won't go away.
 
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