Whatever'sComfortable
Banned
Just give me SSX3 and I'll be happy until I die.
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Sony confirms PS2 emulation coming to PS4
- Thread starter Edge_Maverick
- Start date
Hades Hotgun
Banned
Instead it basically dominates every single thread that has come up regarding this long gestating feature.
I think one of the stronger bits of evidence in favor of disc support is the long amount of time that this has been in development. While it is certainly circumstantial, given how slow Sony has been about firmware updates and the like, I think it bodes well for the possibility.
I broadly agree with your point, and think people ruling out disc support entirely are being fairly narrowminded, but I think people are asking for full disc compatibility (minus games which require special controllers or are otherwise incompatible with emulation), whereas what MS have provided is publisher approved disc compatibility. Any publishers who don't want to participate in the backwards compatibility program are free to do so. It's still a very impressive achievement from MS, and a great feature for the console, but I'd be far less excited about disc based PS2 backwards compatibility with the same limitation, especially since so much time has passed since the PS2 era, and many games are stuck in license/ownership limbo.
The main reason that MS needs publishers involvement is because they have to distribute modified binaries for their solution to work. I don't think this would necessarily be the case for PS2 BC on a PS4.
I think if they do not offer disc compatibility, it will be because the emulator requires a non-trivial amount of game specific configuration, has issues with compatibility, and Sony are unwilling to extend the significant amount of resources towards QA and testing to ensure a good user experience. It won't be out of a desire to drive sales of PS1/PS2 classics via PSN.
And we are done....
Danlord
Member
Pretty much mirrors my thoughts on the matter. Historically, Sony has always supported legacy titles on all their platforms where possible.
I think it's pretty much telling why Sony would be right in allowing local emulation. If you see NeoGAF has been fairly active in regards to this topic, when a lot of comments are hyped about the possibility of local emulation, we have this 1,200 post thread, the Sony XDEV already getting 200+ posts, the original Digital Foundry PS2 emulation thread at 900+ posts. Reiterating charlequin's point about making the brand look better and for the customers buying into the eco-system, it seems it will have a considerably positive impact if they did it, versus this "lost sale" that some think with regards to local emulation versus only digital downloads.
NegativeCero
Banned
Hopefully saves from PS3 can be carried over. I'm not looking forward to starting games like Nocturne again.
So the reason the Star Wars games aren't 1080p is because 1080p isn't an integer scale up from what those games originally ran at?
Nintendo got away with it because you can't physically insert an SNES cartridge into a Wii. I guess they could have built an adapter or something, but how many people would actually find that useful? With PlayStation you're always dealing with discs.
Nintendo got away with it because you can't physically insert an SNES cartridge into a Wii. I guess they could have built an adapter or something, but how many people would actually find that useful? With PlayStation you're always dealing with discs.
Danlord
Member
I think that is correct. The scaling being done is I think 2.0x the original resolution, so there's also no artifacts with stretching taking place.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
With resolution and frame rate improvements plus trophy support, I will gladly do it but I can definitely see that being an issue with the time commitment required for a lot of game. I think that even without an official support for PS3 saves though, folks will come up with a way to get their saves on the system.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I assume it would stretch the image if there was no native functions for widescreen.
So it is okay for Nintendo to get away with it, just cause? One could say you can't physically insert a cartridge by design, so they could sell you your old games again.
charlequin
Banned
Yeah, they're certainly pretty different, I only even bring it up just to counteract this idea that disc BC is this insane request no one would ever try to deliver because it doesn't make money in the most direct and shallowly considered way.
Right, I mean, this is the reason why there was never a broad launch of the embedded PS2 emulator in PS3s -- the compatibility wasn't nearly high enough for a general-public feature. I'm hopeful that they can do quite a bit better than that on PS4 though.
What always gets me about this is that to sell the "disc support is absurd" position, you need to simultaneously say that BC is worthless (because nobody cares about these old games enough for support to affect their feelings about the platform) and incredibly valuable (because there's this giant stack of digital purchase money that is being given away by allowing people to play disc games.) I think it's much more reasonable to look at how PSOne support worked out -- i.e. that the disc support makes people happy, but the population of people who never got a chance with some of these old games is so large that it doesn't negatively affect sales.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
One could say it, but it would still be a specious argument. On the other hand, not allowing Gamecube games on the Wii U seems like pure bullshit.
Guardian Monkey
Member
If this doesnt happen expect major shit storm. Of course I wouldnt doubt it. As they have been known to purposely gimp their own software. IE: See vitatv not allowing some games to run.
But you're also talking about cartridges from the NES, Genesis, Turbo GrafX, and whatever else have you. It's impractical to expect Nintendo to include physical compatibility for all those systems.
Portugeezer
Member
I don't underastand how PS2 disc authentication/anti-piracy would work on PS4, maybe someone could explain how it could work... if it can, then sure, it would be great as I have some PS2 games I didn't play because they looked like crap on my HD TV (FF12 was blurry as fuck).
I don't see this as PS2 "BC", right now it's just PS2 emulated games that will be available to purchase, and that is fine as I have many games I haven't played.
Danlord
Member
Of course everyone hopes that this would be true, it reminds me of the E3 reaction to Final Fantasy VII Remake by Gametrailers, even during the FF7 Remake trailer they couldn't believe it and I'm thinking maybe this is similar, that some can't process that it would be possible do it because it would be overwhelmingly good and up until the word "Remake" did everyone believe for FF7 Remake, so I think it's going to have to be similar with this for PlayStation Experience. Oh well, 14 days to go.
Plus the only lost sales that would happen is in the case of older fans that still have their discs but would be willing to double dip on their collections. Most PS4 owners didn't even have a PS3 let alone a PS2 or PS1. Sony would be angering a vocal but small chunk of the market just to try to milk it over a few games.
They would be much better served selling a separate emulator app with a bunch of features and options that can be regularly updated without needing a new firmware every time.
Besides, I think Sega is the only company that completely eschewed disc BC.
Wii plays Gamecube games for free.
Wii U plays Wii games for free.
Xbox 360 plays some Xbox games for free.
Xbox One plays some 360 games for free.
PS2 plays PS1 games for free.
PS3 plays PS1 games for free, some models can play PS2 games for free.
The PS4 would be the first console since the Dreamcast to ignore disc BC, and somehow it's a given for a big chunk of gaf simply from the one data point of PS3s with the crappy software emulator that can barely run the games on the store won't play PS2 discs, even though they will play PS1 discs still. It's not like the PS4 is going to play PS3 discs so we'd have to settle for 2+ gens back, just like the PS3 did.
On the other hand, I am annoyed it's taken nearly 3 years since the unveiling of the PS4 and we still don't actually know what's going on. No one in the press has ever asked anyone from Sony about pre-PS3 games in an interview that I know of, and its only recently they've even started asking Sony PR for statements. It's not like it's too off-topic since asking about PS3 games is a common question, even though it has a clear answer straight from the reveal.
Beer Monkey
Member
Well, they could have done a whitelist like Microsoft did with 360 on OG Xbox compatibility. That requires a lot of QA though.
Honestly, I don't even expect that on PS4. I'd be more than happy if they just support the PS2 Classics. Even better if they start adding more titles regularly.
charlequin
Banned
You would put the disc in the drive... and then it would read the game off the disc... and then it would play it... exactly the same way it did on three previous Sony Playstation systems...?
Unfortunately the Wii had to have a costly and complex special mechanism to play those stupid little discs the Gamecube uses, so there's an actual physical reason not to support GCN games from disc.
To be fair there are pressed DVDs that authenticate as legit PS2 games but are really cheat discs and will happily run unsigned code from a USB drive. The simple answer there is a whitelist of legit releases, should keep a couple interns busy doing SHA1 hashes of every archived game from every region for a couple months.
Exactly, locking out discs really won't take away too much in sales. In today's digital world people like convenience and good luck finding the good ps2 games consistently for 10 bucks or less. Hell I still have 100 or so ps2 games and I'd still buy some digitally to support it. To me using the original system doesn't compare to an emulator with stable frame rate and higher resolution.
If there's no disc support then oh well. But we could do without the shitting on the hopes of a few who want it.
If there's no disc support then oh well. But we could do without the shitting on the hopes of a few who want it.
Beer Monkey
Member
Well, they could do what Nintendon't already does. Of course, they could support GBA games on 3DS. But if they can't get it perfect, they don't do it at all. See also: Yoshi's Island SNES.
BaraSailey
Member
Awesome! I know it's a long shot, but I really want some obscure horror games like Haunting Ground and Siren since I never got to play those and I would love to have a chance to play them on PS4.
Danlord
Member
I recently bought Haunting Ground and it was really fun, so whilst I have the disk for that and hoping for local emulation, I would like to have digital download of it regardless. I am 99% sure Siren is coming because a during the beta phase of PS4 Firmwre 3.00, someone was broadcasting Siren on PS2 through the Live at PlayStation and someone managed to snag a screenshot.
Link - http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...s4-thanks-firmware-update-3-00-beta/#/slide/1
Agent X
Member
How do you figure? If anything, the historical precedent here is a good reason to lean toward the probability that the PS4 would support PS2 discs.
Before you ask about the software emulation used for downloadable PS2 classics on the late-model PS3 systems, let me respond to the following quote about that subject:
No, I believe they've also locked it out because releasing an "open" emulator with glaring incompatibility issues could lead to poor customer experiences and technical support nightmares.
How would you like to play through 3/4 of a lengthy adventure game, only to find out that the game constantly locks up at an unavoidable point and/or corrupts your saved game data?
LewieP and charlequin both addressed this nicely in the following quotes:
That's what I'm hoping, too. If PS4's version of PS2 emulation is highly compatible and reliable, then there's a great likelihood they would allow this to be used with PS2 disc games. This would be reinforced by the fact that Nintendo and Microsoft are also offering disc compatibility. It wouldn't look good for Sony to be the odd man out here, and I'm sure they know it.
I recently bought Haunting Ground and it was really fun, so whilst I have the disk for that and hoping for local emulation, I would like to have digital download of it regardless. I am 99% sure Siren is coming because a during the beta phase of PS4 Firmwre 3.00, someone was broadcasting Siren on PS2 through the Live at PlayStation and someone managed to snag a screenshot.
Link - http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...s4-thanks-firmware-update-3-00-beta/#/slide/1
Does Siren currently have a PS2 Classic release?
Yes please. This will be completely worthless if it isn't disc based. Crossing fingers fort PS1 émulation as well.
Danlord
Member
I don't know, I can't access PS2 store on the PC and I no longer have a working PS3.
If it did, this still wouldn't be possible since this is being broadcast on a PS4 as it's appearing in the Live at PlayStation tab, so it has to be done on PS4 via emulation.
I'm gonna make a thread about this cause i'm absolutely baffled by it. How is PS2 games coming to PS4 in higher res, with better performance and trophies worthless in the least without disk support!?
What about those people who dont have PS2 disks, or god willing, never owned a PS2 before and would like to play those games? Is that such a farfetched concept to immediately dismiss?
WORTHLESS
Hades Hotgun
Banned
Yeah, it was on sale around Halloween in fact.
edit:
My bad, I was not aware of that. Thanks for the info.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
There's going to be such a major meltdown when it's revealed PS2 emulation won't support discs. It's going to be fun 
Ok FYI, I have no idea how emulators really work but could there be some sort of a profile system within the emulator like an ini file for each game that could be maintained and updated by Sony. For instance at it's lowest form the emulator is just a baseline PS2 emulator, no upscale, no fps increase, no trophies and this would work and be safe for a majority of games with no prior testing, similar to how the PS3 BC was. Then as these games are tested or updated by the publishers and approved for certain features such as trophies or a testing of 60 fps not breaking the engine, then the game's profile could be updated for everyone to enjoy the new features?
That way you could play practically any game from the get go, (maybe with rare exceptions) and publishers/Sony could upgrade games as they wish.
That way you could play practically any game from the get go, (maybe with rare exceptions) and publishers/Sony could upgrade games as they wish.
Even without trying to enhance the games, compatibility is still a question for a portion of titles just by very nature of emulation not being 100%.
With that said...i'd assume they'll have an "original" setting, where the original res is presented and a new "enhanced" option where the internal res is boosted...and i guess that may apply to FPS as well
I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't support discs, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it does.
Whatever happens, when it comes to releasing PS2 classics on PSN, Sony will probably continue to focus on games that currently have ridiculous scalper prices. Maybe it'll eventually start releasing import games too like it's been doing with PS1 classics.
Whatever happens, when it comes to releasing PS2 classics on PSN, Sony will probably continue to focus on games that currently have ridiculous scalper prices. Maybe it'll eventually start releasing import games too like it's been doing with PS1 classics.
Veritigo_X
Member
Would like disc support, but I'd be happy if they just let me use the PS1/PS2 Classics I've already purchased. I've already got a pretty good collection of good games that way.
Do you know of many games that didn't work though? I mean I know there were a few but looking at the only real list I could find quickly at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ompatible_PlayStation_2_and_PlayStation_games , it seems like the vast majority of games worked, although maybe a bunch had minor graphic bugs as opposed to outright not working.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
gimme...
While cool, I want Final Tuned instead. However FT never got a port.
There's going to be such a major meltdown when it's revealed PS2 emulation won't support discs. It's going to be fun
I cannot grasp this way of thinking.
That compatibility list is referring to hardware-based BC (or partial hardware in the case of later PS3 revisions), which is almost always more reliable than software-based emulation.
autoduelist
Member
Yeah, I'm having a really hard time finding these 'lost sales' too. It makes no sense -- so allowing physical BC 'loses sales' from that small segment of people who kept large stockpiles of PS2 games, but sold their PS2, but want to play PS2 games on PS4, and now can only 'rebuy' a ps2 game because it's only available digitally?
Um. Yeah. It requires a ridiculous amount of contortion... Sony isn't going to lose any great amount of sales if they allow physical. Heck, many people already rebuy their physical as digital for convenience if the price is right.
Personally? I don't care either way. While I prefer allowing physical on principle, I know my PS4 will have a PS4 disc in it. If I play PS2 games on it, I'll buy them digitally, even if I already own it in my large stack of PS2 games in the garage [yes, I have a ps2 setup in the garage].
2blackcats
Member
I really don't think there will be disc support. There are patched ps2 isos out in the wild that have circumvented the ps2 security.
We can't have nice things because, pirates.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
I don't see the "meltdown", if at all the other way around that would be huge. It's amazing how people wanted this, now we get it with better image quality, framerate and trophies (All this is based on the Star Wars game right now). Yet people are already crybabies, because it might not be disc-based. Hilarious.
Software BC vs Hardware BC.