Kilgrave. Kingpin. Loki.
- Thread starter Malyse
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ratcliffja
Member
Kilgrave for sure. Yellowjacket was easily the worst. He felt like a kids' movie villain from the 90s.
shinra-bansho
Member
Probably Kilgrave, because of David Tennant more than anything else really.
For the most part in these films and shows the actor maketh the villain. Although James Spader couldn't save Ultron from being bland as hell.
For the most part in these films and shows the actor maketh the villain. Although James Spader couldn't save Ultron from being bland as hell.
It's a great reply. And why I love the Netflix shows. They take the time to explore the villains. The films just can't quite manage it.
Cipher Peon
Banned
Kilgrave is the best, but I like Kingpin better. Ward is alright.
I hate Loki.
I hate Loki.
Discotheque
Banned
most definitely. Kilgrave had potential but the show's doing a good job of squandering that.
Kingpin
Drunk Mandarin
Justin Hammer
Vincent Alexander
Member
Spoilers if you haven't finished JJ:
I feel like Kilgrave's weakness was Jessica. It is a messed up moment when he claims he didn't rape her, then goes on to claim it's hard to tell the difference when people are doing things because they want to or because of his power. Next great messed up moment is when he tells Jessica that he didn't tell her to kill anyone, but instead to "take care of". These are both extremely fascinating arguments, and the kind you'd love to see Jessica and him get into it over. But the character of Jessica is a brash one that can't control her emotions, and her reaction both times is to get angry. The latter incident she throws and breaks a bottle then we jump to another topic. We don't get to see them go back-and-forth and dig into the logic (flawed or not) of Kilgrave. Doing so probably would've revealed some much more interesting depth to the both of them. At least that's my opinion. I truly still like Kilgrave. I just wish we could've gotten more.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
I like David Tennant, he really sold Kilgrave to me but what they had given him to work with in JJ was a little disappointing for me. He didn't have much outside of the arc of being the jilted, creepy, petulant ex-bf throughout season 1 and then they killed him :< Tennant was the star of that show, hands down. The only other thing he had going was resolving his dark past with regards to his parents. Which, even Kingpin had, except that Kingpin had other stuff going on aside from Matt Murdock. His arc with Vanessa, for example, didn't have anything to do with Matt. He found her and they fell in love. He also had aspirations and friends, and I'm not talking about the age old villain's 'taking over the world'. He truly was somehow in the belief that he could redefine his city for the better. It's stilted, but what they gave Kingpin to work with was more layers than what they gave Kilgrave.
Tennant > D'onofrio though. I was a bit sad about that :<
Loki is a personal favourite. He's a full tilt diva :> He's not gritty, like Kilgrave and Kingpin, so I dont consider him in the same vein. And boy, he's very entertaining to watch :>
Tennant > D'onofrio though. I was a bit sad about that :<
Loki is a personal favourite. He's a full tilt diva :> He's not gritty, like Kilgrave and Kingpin, so I dont consider him in the same vein. And boy, he's very entertaining to watch :>
spoilered just in case :>
I kind of disagree. I'd say overall all of Marvel Studio's villain casting has has been solid. They're almost all good actors who could do a lot better if given the screen time and material. At least on the TV shows they're given the screen time. Bridges, Roth, Weaving, Rockwell, Pearce, Kingsley, Eccleston and especially Spader are all much more capable.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
omg agree so much. i had such excitement when these kinds of dialog popped up on JJ. they are trying to tackle complex issues, but i was penultimately disappointed that these conversations were never followed through. instead they were raised and then they kept going back to stressing how tantrummy kilgrave was. i mean, i get it. he's a twat, but i think they really should have explored these dialog deeper and they should give kilgrave room to articulate his character beyond the obsessive loser angle :3
when they faced off and he was saying she was free for 18 seconds, like you said, that was such a great example. and she was like, nuh-uh, you crazy. i was about to escape. aaaaa. i really was looking forward to a real back-and-forth, but i dont think the show ever really delivered on these more complex platforms :<
when they faced off and he was saying she was free for 18 seconds, like you said, that was such a great example. and she was like, nuh-uh, you crazy. i was about to escape. aaaaa. i really was looking forward to a real back-and-forth, but i dont think the show ever really delivered on these more complex platforms :<
JJ has so much more potential than DD, i think. DD is basically a good guy hero doing good guy hero things. JJ has darkness in its premise, but i think the writers squandered some of the story's complexity.
I still enjoy it, but I wish it was.... more.
shinra-bansho
Member
TBH I didn't even remember that half those actors were in any Marvel films and/or still don't recall the character they played. Although, yes, I'll agree the material is often not much to work with either.
Kilgrave's statements to Jessica really are textbook examples of gaslighting and manipulation - he knows exactly when he's controlling someone else, down to the last second
.
Nah.
(or 18 seconds)
He ain't shit to the real SWAG
Nah.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
The best Villian was a # 2 guy.
Yep.
Actually, its for reasons you just didn't pick up on. They weren't particularly difficult to grasp either.
He's initially presented as straight up monster because that's how Jessica remembers him. He slowly shifts from that to a more of a stalker which fits perfectly in line with the shows themes. Real life abusers aren't ephemeral monsters after all, they're real people with fucked up motives. Then he tries to become more relatable to both Jessica and the audience but that's clearly a ruse, both intentional and unintentional. You pretend that having him try to ingratiate himself to the viewer is poor writing but that's missing the point of those scenes entirely. He's lying! To both Jessica and the audience. He has a distorted world view which materializes in selective and altered memories of prior relationships. He truly believes his parents abandoned him because they were terrible parents, not because he terrified them. He also believes that Jessica, whom he raped repeatedly, actually wanted him deep down inside as evidenced by how he chooses to remember the balcony scene where she almost escaped. Again, very typical of real life abusers and rapists who claim their victims enjoyed their assaults. Finally, he's shown to be sniveling coward when fully exposed because that's what most rapists are. Even his anti-climactic death is purposefully done in such a way to rip control away from him only when he thinks he's won. The character doesn't have a development arc but he does work as a character study with layers slowly being peeled away each episode.
None of that means you have to actually enjoy the character of course, just that you don't seem to have understood him in the slightest. The show has plenty of faults but your criticism of Killgrave is laughable. The fact that you want a rapist to be "cool" instead of despicable, petty, and small is just bizarre.
Kingpin > Loki > Kilgrave
Still preferred Kingpin but he was definitely more entertaining than Loki and Kilgrave.
The best Villian was a # 2 guy.
Still preferred Kingpin but he was definitely more entertaining than Loki and Kilgrave.
This is a problem with everything dealing with comic book material, not just Marvel and not just in movies. Nothing is ever really given time to be built up and have a real payoff.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Wait, this is Iron Man 2...right?He ain't shit to the real SWAG
Jesus. I remember NOTHING from that damn movie.
The best Villian was a # 2 guy.
Oh yeah the Kingsman guy was good.
And ironically enough, the one guy they've had come back multiple times, Loki, is starting to turn into an anti-hero now that Marvel realized he was a fan favorite after his actions in the Dark World.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Ultron.
This guy was a fucking idiot.The best Villian was a # 2 guy.
EDIT: Seriously. About as dumb as the fucking "Doctor" in Jessica Jones.
"You can't only take Reds, Simpson. Now I'm gonna leave ALL THE REDS HERE WITH YOU and walk off. Don't do anything I wouldn't do!"
Vincent Alexander
Member
Why was he an idiot? For
taking his eyes off the gun?
Violence Jack
Member
Kilgrave was pretty fucking scary, but charming.
Kingpin was portrayed excellently.
Never gave a damn about Loki.
I'd say Grant Ward is in the top 3.
Kingpin was portrayed excellently.
Never gave a damn about Loki.
I'd say Grant Ward is in the top 3.
1. Kilgrave
2. Loki
3. Anyone other then Kingpin.
Just such a whiny character at the end of the day. And D'Onofrio is such a hit and miss actor. He goes for it and has had some amazing performances, but Kingpin is not one of them. He has one great scene involving a car door, and the rest is I dunno how to describe it. An insecure fat ass hole who constantly cries, and occasionally makes decisions.
2. Loki
3. Anyone other then Kingpin.
Just such a whiny character at the end of the day. And D'Onofrio is such a hit and miss actor. He goes for it and has had some amazing performances, but Kingpin is not one of them. He has one great scene involving a car door, and the rest is I dunno how to describe it. An insecure fat ass hole who constantly cries, and occasionally makes decisions.
Extra Sauce
Member
Trevor >>>>>
needs to be in better quality for the leg moves at the endHe ain't shit to the real SWAG
Kevin or Kilgrave? Because if your name is Kilgrave, that would be odd.
soapypanda
Member
James Wesley
Brock Rumlow
That Bill Paxton character from SHIELD
It's all about the side characters.
P.S. Wow there have been no cool/charismatic female villains so far. Trinity was alright I guess.
Brock Rumlow
That Bill Paxton character from SHIELD
It's all about the side characters.
P.S. Wow there have been no cool/charismatic female villains so far. Trinity was alright I guess.
Dottie/Black Widow
Raina (although she's more of an antagonist)
Jia Ying
Nebula
Lorelei
unpopularblargh
Member
Loki in the first Thor was really good and well fleshed out character but then they turned him into a Joker knock off in Avengers who just wants to rule the world which sucked. They tried to give him depth again in Thor 2 but the less said about that film the better.
Anyways my list would be:
Kilgrave
Kingpin
Loki
If we were to count the FOX films Magneto and Stryker would easily be top two. Shaw would be somewhere between Kingpin and Loki.
Anyways my list would be:
Kilgrave
Kingpin
Loki
If we were to count the FOX films Magneto and Stryker would easily be top two. Shaw would be somewhere between Kingpin and Loki.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Lorelei is barely worth a mention but I really like Nebula - glad she'll continue to have a bigger presence so she can be fleshed out more.
Dottie and Raina are both great
CopperPuppy
Member
Grant Ward, easily.
Marvel hasn't excelled at villains, but Ward is on point.
Marvel hasn't excelled at villains, but Ward is on point.
Dark Ninja
Member
Kingpin just cause of the door kill.
BKatastrophe
Member
Baron Wolfgang von Strucker
I honestly preferred MCD's (RIP) portrayal over D'onofrio.
in my heart
Yeah I'm not sure how people are saying that any villain is worse than him, mostly because I forgot everything about him in that film. I don't even recall if he had dialogue. Kurse had more presence than him.
Anyone could have taken him. By basing his character on that premise, he's completely shit. By then end of the series he's a legit threat, but even then, the conflict is extremely personal. Plus,
for 2/3 of the show, Jess isn't trying to kill him. She's trying to imprison him and prove that he (and others like him) exist. A literal game changer that still manages to work in the end.
I would actually spoiler tag that. Just saying.
I honestly preferred MCD's (RIP) portrayal over D'onofrio.
I think it is the only reason they brought him back for Avengers and The Dark World in the first place.
Disagree on that. The DC shows have a clear building on their villains Deathstroke, Reverse Flash, Zoom, the Dark Archer, Blaine DeBeers, Penguin. Flash even uses its filler to build up villains like Cold. SHIELD messed up on their villains, but they are clearing that up with Ward, they are building up Kingpin for that. It is not something that is automatically better on TV, but it is something almost impossible to do on movies.
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