Weirdly adversarial. Why you gotta make like guy just isn't fun? Why you gotta make like guy is some aberration?
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Weirdly adversarial. Why you gotta make like guy just isn't fun? Why you gotta make like guy is some aberration?
Oh I loved the film. Easily in my top 3.
I'm not just going to ignore it's flaws because of the hype. Stuff was missing, and a lot was copied from ANH.
We can do a lot better in several areas.
It's a fantasy film. Not sci-fi. Have to just chalk it up to movie logic. And yeah...I thought they sucked up all the sun's energy at the end...which would mean death for the planet they were trying to destroy anyway, wouldn't it?
But it does tell you the situation. What you want is expanded info. That's fair but the movie does give a reason for all of that and they do tell you what happens even in the opening crawl. it's a summary but they do tell you. Sure I would love if that was expanded a bit, but the general message and point is conveyed.
If you want to know what exactly happened right after ROTJ leading up to TFA you're going to have to look that up.
This was all in the movie. New republic is aiding the resistance secretly. Hux wants to showcase the power of Starkiller base by destroying NR planets saying what they are doing in treachery. Starkiller destroys NR planets. New Republic is essentially crippled. That's it really. That imo is really all that's needed. That shows me that now there is going to be a power vacuum or maybe even what's left of the NR actually decided to declare war on the First Order.
excelsiorlef
Member
That's the problem.They could've tested it on Starkiller's own moon for all the difference it makes.
Nah. They later show that basically everyone we remember (Akbar, Lando's copilot guy, etc) are Resistance, not Republic.
Ok? They still tell you more than once that the Republic (or at least part of it) and the Resistance are allies. There's no reason to believe the Republic is corrupt and frankly just knowing that the entire Senate and several planets of innocent people got wiped out by literal Space Nazis should be enough to invoke a little sympathy at least
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
I'm going to have to disagree with you. The PT was chock full of reflective, long shots. No quick cuts at all and cry traditional camera angles like the OT. Literally from the first scene in this with the troops in the carrier and the quick cuts and the random gun sound effects, to Finn's flash cuts after the trooper leaves the bloody mark to all of the close ups and mid-shots, Rey's "vision"...storywise, yes, this is very much like the OT but on pure, editing and technical terms, no, this was way more fluid. The amount the camera moved and the angles it took (like being pointed under Ren's mask)...it's nothing like the rest. This was done on purpose. To keep things constantly moving and to make shots interesting if they so deemed rather than do one long shot after the other.
User 73706
Banned
I mean, they only need one star per system in terms of a power source. Maybe the entire planet was capable of FTL travel.
That's the problem.
Nah. They later show that basically everyone we remember (Akbar, Lando's copilot guy, etc) are Resistance, not Republic.
I was saying the names of the individual planets don't really matter. At the end of the day it's established that New Replubic planets were blown up. That's important and that sets up the future films as well.
The names of the planets really don't mean much in the grand scheme.
It's film editing for millennials. Most movies are like this now. I dare you to watch Paul Greengrass' Bourne movies and find one shot that's longer than 3-5 seconds. You can't do it.
excelsiorlef
Member
I'll disagree again as my mind just can't connect the overall package of the OT with the weird mess of the PT whereas this felt deeply like OT. There's more to the overall feel than just camera postitions and shot length.
If anything with it being set later in the story the slight modern changes drivebthsr home that we are in the future. Hard to do in a space series where real world technology has grown so much but in world (which was already far advanced from our own) hasn't.
Regardless even if I agreed with you the slight harmony of technical presentation isn't worth giving Lucas the reigns ir bringing him back in at all.
I will say this about my two viewings. On first viewing I thought there were a lot more long shots than their really wore.
Most long shots where action shots, were a camera panned neatly. Get into any conversation and it's cutting between each person. Most scenes are pretty fast too, and they cut between them faster as the movie goes on. The movie opened with a couple long scenes back to back, then it just picks up like crazy.
Most long shots where action shots, were a camera panned neatly. Get into any conversation and it's cutting between each person. Most scenes are pretty fast too, and they cut between them faster as the movie goes on. The movie opened with a couple long scenes back to back, then it just picks up like crazy.
Aldeeran was destroyed by the Death Star. We were told that's Leia's home. At the end of the day I could give two fucks about that planet. I wasn't emotionally attached to it or upset that it got blown up.
The moments in ANH and TFA were literally just to showcase the weapon and make a statement to the galaxy at large.
The moments in ANH and TFA were literally just to showcase the weapon and make a statement to the galaxy at large.
This is the true crime in modern cinema and why I'm cautiously optimistic about Rian Johnson directing the next film. Hopefully, he can slow things down and give scenes room to breathe instead of frantically trying to move us from one set piece to another.
What are you talking about? What in my comment is adversarial? I think most people were not thinking about these relatively minor issues based on reactions from this thread and the general high regard for the film.
Yes the film has some flaws, but I think these desires for more details regarding the universe are not among them. I think SW fans want to know more about the worlds, the characters, the state of the galaxy, etc but these elements are properly relegated to other media like novels, comics, etc while the movie focuses on the narrative and drama. And in the film, they clearly state that the planets destroyed are the heart of the New Republic and the Republic fleet. So the filmmakers stick in enough for people to pick up on, but it's also not necessary to enjoying the drama or understanding the narrative.
I agree, just naming them isn't sufficient. At least "Corruscant" signifies *something* instead of this empty sound and fury.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
I don't disagree but that's my point. From the very beginning with the quick cuts and the random gun sound effects and close-ups, I knew this going to be very different. Transition wipes where you'd expect them weren't there. This was all done on purpose though, to show change. No character really had time to reflect, the close-ups are metaphorical in that sense. This is why I believe 8 will be different as well. It will slow down a little and allow the characters to reflect.
Don't get me wrong, Lucas almost completely killed the series and I don't want him near it. I'm only making a point that within a minute from it starting, I could tell from editing/sound/cinematography, this was going to be fast paced and very "modern". Again, 8 will give the breathing room these characters need and I guarantee much less close-ups and more wide-angles.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yeah I know, but I had to read a synopsis of the books and comics to know that, which I feel is unnecessary.
excelsiorlef
Member
But could you imagine if they did blow up Coruscant, they'd probably get shit for it considering the planet itself doesn't fucking matter it's who is on that does.
I mean fuck ST 09 pisses me off because they in one movie blew up Romulus and Vulcan which especially in light of Into Darkness meant fuck all. Total waste.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
by all means, elaborate
^ ding ding ding. You guys nailed it. This is the first Star Wars film to feel cinematically different from the other 6.
There's an editing and pacing quality to some of Star Wars' most iconic scenes under Lucas' watch. I always go back to the Death Star escape battle and the trench run attack scenes in ANH. They feel deliberately paced, with smart edits jumping between the heroes and the enemy attacks, and they build up to a high point of excitement at the moment of a John Williams crescendo. The thing is, that quality is even in the prequels... I'm thinking of the Obi Wan and Grevious fight in ROTS. Even though it's a very modern and silly CGI extravaganza, there's something classically Star Wars about the quality of that sequence. And as MMarsden said, even Kirshner and Marquand stayed close to it.
I had expected JJ to try and clone it... I'm coming to terms with the fact that he didn't, and next time I'll watch TFA for what it is, not for what it is not. But it certainly marks the moment that Star Wars shifted from having a trademark editing/pacing style to something more generically Hollywood.
And if we're going back to my original comment... I never said I wanted Lucas back. I'm just getting wistful about the fact that his trademark style has now been put to bed for good. I don't miss the aw shucks dialogue, the "droid humour" or the kind of dad joke quality many of the quirky characters had.
excelsiorlef
Member
Fair enough. For me the difference was negligible especially in light of how everything else was just so vastlt different between OT and PT.
Like I said this still felt more closer to the OT than the PT ever did.
Blueboys1306
Banned
No I'm sorry, but the prequel trilogy is shot/framed/edited similar to the original trilogy. Episode 7 mimics the environments and ships and characters etc... from the OT but everything else is totally different. It's shot differently. Edited far quicker for today's bored audience. It's a different beast to the previous 6 and suffers for it in my opinion.
Good Job Bob
Member
Yes, I expect and hope that Rian will slow it down a bit as well.
We'll see. Either way, I'm really excited to see where it goes. My favourite scenes in TFA were the ones given room to breathe.
-Ren/Rey torture scene
-Rey flashback scene and opening scene in the Star Destroyer
-Ren/Han on the bridge
-Ending with Luke
Blueboys1306
Banned
It's weird cause that's the 1 thing I missed from episode 7- was George Lucas. You can feel it misses his vibe straight away and I couldn't get involved in the film because of that. Just felt like someone mimicking him, but poorly.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The biggest thing I felt after watching the film was that at the end, though it was a good movie and fun, it never FELT like the real Episode 7 to me. It felt like a movie version of what someone thought Episode 7 would be like.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
You're all correct and that's mostly thanks to the dialogue, the characters and the character designs. I've seen the movie a few times now but even from the first time, the energy isn't just from the story or the characters, it has completely modern editing and cinematography. Almost like J.J. saying you're going to get some of the old with some of the new. I'm not complaining if that's what people think. Lucas didn't make the best choices with his camera in the prequels (Episode 2 was downright a snoozefest), I'm merely stating that the energy in this will make it stand out when watched with all 9 completed, I guarantee that. Pay attention to all the quick cuts, close-ups and moving camera angles...it's a mix of your father's Star Wars with a touch of modern.
My absolute favorite scene in the whole movie? Rey's intro. A day in her life. And I didn't know why. It's because it takes it's time, builds a lot visually and is a great window into the character.
and I completely disagree with you. The movie was fine and Lucas needed to get out the way. He had his moment and failed with the PT.
It's funny. People complain about this movie being too much like ANH. Now we're getting a new argument that this movie isn't edited or paced like any of the previous movies.
I think the movie does exactly what it needed to do and that's the reason it's a critically and commercial success.
I didn't bother me at all until the last shot before the swipe to credits....
That was some bullshit. All previous 6 end in a still image of a meaningful moment with the characters front and center, beautiful music transitioning into the ending theme, really memorable...on 7 we get a nice cliff.
Other than that it wasn't a problem for me.
excelsiorlef
Member
Each to their own perception I guess because for me there is exactly one moment that felt truly like the OT to me and it was he scene in RotS where Vader is standing on the deck of a Star Destroyer looking out at the construction of the Death Star.
Wait what?
I don't want Lucas back on Star Wars, he already ruined the PT, I don't want him to ruin this.
excelsiorlef
Member
Yeah my favorite shot was the long shot of her sitting outside eating, it was calm and almost meditative. Honestly it's what sells me on Rey's ability to tap into the force. That much isolation either makes you insane or capable of entering into states of deep calm and control. I bought that she basically teains herself to embrace the clarity of isolation, if only as a means to survive (mentally)
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
These movies are all about change. I think episode 8 could easily break another rule: when it cuts to Rey's first scene, open it exactly where 7 ended. I think this could happen because hearing Luke's first words are really important to the audience. There is definitely a 50/50 chance this is happening and that's another bold move for a traditional SW film.
Nobody misunderstand what I'm saying: Lucas made lazy films and they suffered. This is what SW needed and it will slow down for sure. The whole point of this film was to wash away the bad taste which meant no meetings and no sitting down to have long talks. Or cutting to a saber every single time it fell but this will stand out the most because of the modern editing and camera work. I don't care, I'm not arguing for Lucas back (that's the worst idea you could ever have) or a slower film. It worked because of the characters and the designs and the dialogue.
That was never the problem with the prequels.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The story elements themselves were more like the OT of course. Not just the echo of Empire/Rebels imagery... but the heroes who actually have a pulse.
I'm calming down about TFA.... I saw it not 72 hours ago and to my great surprise it gave me a bad feeling when I walked out of the theatre. Much of it was the cinematic disconnection with the other movies, which I just described.. something that I realize won't affect 99% of the audience.
For 3 years I had been hearing that this movie would bring back the magic of the originals. I had visions of it being a revival of the classic Star Wars films in filmic style and pacing terms.... Lucas in 1977 resurrected. Now I realize they just meant it would have stormtroopers, X-wings and heroes with swagger in a rather typically shot Hollywood package. Well, that's okay... I can deal with that type of a product... I just have to mourn the loss of a certain style of SW that probably can't come back after this set the stage.
Same here.
Well the last shot is certifiably awful but we do still get some nice music with it. If the shot was different the scene would still be a great SW style ending because the 2 figures are still and isolated. It could have been a great ending.
excelsiorlef
Member
Please please tell me the first thing you said after the movie ended was "I have a bad feeling about this"
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Went ahead and took a crack at editing a (close as I can get) film version of The Ways of the Force.
There's about a minute long piece of music I couldn't find anywhere on either the official or the For Your Consideration versions of the soundtrack, so this won't be film perfect, but aside from that one minute, it's pretty much how it goes. Hopefully an official release will come soon that renders this completely useless.
There's about a minute long piece of music I couldn't find anywhere on either the official or the For Your Consideration versions of the soundtrack, so this won't be film perfect, but aside from that one minute, it's pretty much how it goes. Hopefully an official release will come soon that renders this completely useless.
Hey guys, if you know any ESL learners who are into Star Wars, feel free to direct them to this video:
Learn English with Star Wars:
http://youtu.be/UpksX5p0J9k
I'll do Empire if this hits 100,000 clicks by February 18th.
Learn English with Star Wars:
http://youtu.be/UpksX5p0J9k
I'll do Empire if this hits 100,000 clicks by February 18th.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I kind of had the "great disturbance in the force" look
That last scene in TFA of Luke... I don't know if I ever had a more conflicted response to a movie scene. I thought it was one of the most trite and predictable ways to tease a new character (standing on a cliff looking cool... who couldn't have wrote that?), and one of the least Star Wars endings ever, and I couldn't believe it was ending like that.... and yet, the very presence of Luke welled up emotion in me.
Can't wait to watch it again, sans my fanboy baggage.
excelsiorlef
Member
Yeah I remember it being solid. Saw it like 3 times. Saw TFA and then watched part of it and was like wtf...
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
I kind of had the "great disturbance in the force" look
That last scene in TFA of Luke... I don't know if I ever had a more convicted response to a movie scene. I thought it was one of the most trite and predictable ways to tease a new character (standing on a cliff looking cool... who couldn't have wrote that?), and one of the least Star Wars endings ever, and I couldn't believe it was ending like that.... and yet, the very presence of Luke welled up emotion in me.
Can't wait to watch it again, sans my fanboy baggage.
A problem I had with the final shot was not the camera moving around Luke and Rey (again, hammering home change) but it was the speed of the sound editing. It's almost as if they didn't have a better take from filming that day so the music felt like it was on 1.5 speed. It rushed because the shot was about to end and it had to cut to the credits so the last few seconds of the song move much quicker than the rest.
LegalEagleMike
Member
We remember it fondly because it was best of the prequels. But it still sucked.
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