I mean, not really? Transformers 1 has an 86%.
I think BVS is going to have a similar split, a high audience rating and bad to mediocre reviews.
Batman v Superman - New Clip
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I mean, not really? Transformers 1 has an 86%.
I think BVS is going to have a similar split, a high audience rating and bad to mediocre reviews.
This sounds much worse
And Transformers 1 is regarded as being an actual decent film by most people. I don't quite get what you're trying to get at with that one.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
He's getting at that movie was awful.
Public reviews are always generally higher than critic scores, even look at the splits on the Fantastic Four films. People with attachments to these characters are invested and tend to like these films more.
Which is fine, and thats totally a cool metric to use.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Even though the general public and Transformers fans would disagree?
Couldn't you say that critics are also overly negative due to their attachments to the characters? "this isn't the superman/batman/whatever of the 60's so this movie sucks" sure seems plausible. Fantastic 4 is an awful movie, but not like 9% awful. It's only scored lower due to the source material and the attachment for the characters.
Well congrats on having the minority opinion. This is what causes these dumbass arguments. You somehow think that just because you didn't like something it becomes "wrong" that other people liked it. Transformers 1 was well received amd so was MoS. It's not some sort of fabrication or exaggeration of the truth. It is the truth. Your unwillingness to accept that in favor of your own opinion doesnt change that.
I fuckin' hated The Dark Knight Rises and as a Batman fan it almost literally pained me. However I don't go around running my mouth in every thread about it like everyone else on the planet who loved it has terrible opinions.
Sure. I'm not saying audience polls or reviews don't matter. I just assumed when you refer to how well received something is, you're talking about the critical reception.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I'm guessing this is the kind of reaction that will happen when BVS gets savaged by critics and has a high audience rating, huh.
Edit: Which again, is fine. I don't hold it against people liking stuff. Liking stuff is good. And that doesn't really discredit one measurement stick or the other. I do think MoS is going to be a monster at the BO, and generally - look at Snyder's past audience/review splits - he connects with people in a way that perhaps critics don't appreciate. That happens to Michael Bay too.
DrGonzo615
Banned
This is the first thing I thought. The more I see of this the more Im convinced its gonna be bad.
SlowRevolution
Member
Save 2016, Margot Robbie in Suicide Squad
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Man of Steel: The Michael Bay Transformers of our generation
DarkJediKnight
Member
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Next week the first real trailer for Suicide Squad will release, quite excited to see the reaction to that.
BFIB
Member
Cavill's delivery can sometimes be off putting. I'm hoping this is just one of those cases, and is not indicative of the rest of the film.
But the last two spots haven't been the best, however, they both are at this timeframe in the film, so hopefully its just this one scene that doesn't look the best.
Still have high hopes!
Look at Snyder's past review history and the reviews of the first film?
Led_Zeppelin
Member
No it doesn't, mostly because Batman is the personification of fear and threat. He has never threatening someone at their backs. And if he has not a lot of writters would have done that. Batman is the character that wouldn't wait for you to turn around to issue a threat. That is Bats 101. He always has a plan, he is always thinking of all possible outcomes he is always speak his mind and to your face. He isn't backstabbing, he isn't a chicken.
The scenes wants to show Batman as a badass for threatening freaking Superman, that is great that is something Batman would do. Threatening Superman when he has his back turn on him? No way in hell. Also since we don't know how the scenes continues, lets say that Superman hears it (how couldn't he? He is freaking superman) and comes back? How does the scene continues? Does Batman back down of their threat? Because that is what most people do when they issue a threat when someone is turning their back, it never comes as bad ass but something a coward or a comedy relief character would do.
People here gives too much credit to Snyder, specially considering that Snyder doesn't have almost any recognition to be a good director and even his most successful movies are full of terrible directed moments, he isn't Nolan or Affleck or anyone he hasn't earned the credibility and the benefit of doubt. And I doubt this movie is going to be his redemption.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The last movie by this team of not being well received critically?
I have no idea what you're getting at anymore. That critics are always right and the public opinion doesn't matter? Consensus changes over time, it happens. IIRC Indy 3 was poorly received when it came out and is now considered one of the best of the trilogy. There are dozens of other examples.
Octavianus
Banned
Yikes... That was all kinds of awful
I literally said that in that post that you quoted that public opinion DOES matter. I also appreciate that the public opinion in review aggregator websites skews higher than critical reviews, and in many cases there is a divide between critical and public reception. I'm not sure any metric is more relevant or important, it just means that a film connects with the general population differently than with critics.
The scene is Batman being out of his depth. From the batmobile (arguably one of his biggest toys that does damage) getting spun out of control, then having the doors ripped off like paper show that. You're projecting your interpretation of the character into the film.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Its gonna be interesting as to whether you admit disappointment at the strange choice in characterization should the film go the way it seems to be going, or if there will be some deeper rationalization for why Superman is acting the way he is that aims to tell people how they're interpreting the performance incorrectly.
To clarify, I'm not taking "Knightmare" or Nu52 Superman into account at all despite your insistence on suggesting they've poisoned the well. I'm taking the stuff we've seen at face value based on how they've chosen to present it.
Its also possible (and seems probable) that Cavill simply botched the fuckin line. There doesn't have to be an in-universe reason for it. Probably isnt.
I tried watching this because of all the recommendations involving Cavill's "range" and, well, he was boring and wooden. Lacked a certain charm you'd need to pull off that role.
keltickennedy
Member
He was the only charming part of that movie honestly. I thought him and Armie had great chemistry but the movie didn't really give them a whole lot. I don't want to spoil it but the escape sequence with the boats was so fucking funny. I was in tears.
Led_Zeppelin
Member
No I am not, that is what Batman is, that is what people expect from a Batman movie and character. If Batman was a whimp then the scene works perfectly. Again we haven't seen the scene completely only the last 10 seconds of what could have been a long ass action sequence or a 1 minute superman wipes the floor with Batman sequence. That again doesn't mean anything with what the dialogue that was delivered convey.
Batman being out of his depth is obvious, is in the title of the film. Batman vs Superman. What makes this type of stories interesting is how Batman undercut the terrible handicap he has when facing Superman. Batman moment and dialogue is obviously to show a badass moment for him, despite what the rest of the scene may entail but the delivery and visual queues work completely against that. Batman comes out as a complete coward and out of character by threatening someone at their backs. That is something not even the worse Batman movies of all time (The Schumacher's ones) got wrong.
But hey, Snyder is a genius! I mean look at his history record and critical reception of all his films, he certainly is a better director than Nolan and Affleck and deserves the benefit of doubt! I mean is not like he isn't Brett Ratner tier.
Nothing I saw from that movie suggested that Cavill had some hidden acting skills that were waiting to be unleashed.
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Snyder gave us the best CBM ever with MoS so yeah, he does deserve the benefit of doubt.
Man I don't get the Man of Steel hate. I get the tornado scene, but I just can't fathom why people enjoy Boy Scout Gold and Silver age Superman. His power list and too good to be true personality really make him less human to me, not more. I always found those versions of Supes to be really boring and out of touch. No one is that nice, no one is that selfless. I like the more human stories around him (like For Tomorrow) where you can tell he's been living on Earth and has really adopted our insecurities, emotions etc. Richard Donner's movies (the first and second) were fine for what they were, but I think Man of Steele has way more flavor.
I also think this trailer is pretty good, though I do agree that Supe's delivery is a bit weird, maybe a bit deadpan. I do like that they are at odds with each other. Even the best World's Strongest showed them working on 2 different levels back in the Bruce Timm era.
I also think this trailer is pretty good, though I do agree that Supe's delivery is a bit weird, maybe a bit deadpan. I do like that they are at odds with each other. Even the best World's Strongest showed them working on 2 different levels back in the Bruce Timm era.
Man, I hope the scene works in the film.
After witnessing Superman's power in Metropolis I'd hope that Batman had a plan beyond crashing the Batmobile into Supes. Comic Batman would probably analyse the boot in-print in his car, use that to create a 3D model of Superman's feet then use that to deduce that he is Clark Kent.
I really hope he didn't just get his car kicked for no good reason.
what is a CBM?
Glass Shark
Banned
so grimdark
ViewtifulJC
Banned
At least Schumacher's Batman was honest in its corniness. This shit is sooooo self-serious, it spins around into being goofy. A dick measuring contest between two broody macho douchebags.
I disagree. Face value is that he uses the word "mercy", doesn't lay a hand on Batman, doesn't immediately threaten him (only if he does something in the future), doesn't threaten him bodily (only his cowl), and flies off rather than engaging.
Irrespective of performance, just the facts of that situation have to be tortured to imply someone who is supposed to be really into threatening someone.
If you add in more facts and context from MOS (pacifist whose only violent encounter was traumatizing), trailers (wanting Batman to stay down even in a heightened engagement), or actor comments (everyone saying Supes is holding back). That seems the more likely intention.
The face-value reading is that Superman's not into this, which is exactly how it plays and how it is presented.
"Botched" is relative to expectation, which is why I'm saying it misses the mark for anyone to be expecting Superman to be brilliant at delivering threats. If everything in-universe is pointing one way and your expectation is not only universe-contradictory but also meta-critical (so, "This is my interpretation contrary to what little we do know, but it also has to be a mistake outside of the story too.") I'd point to the expectation as the more erroneous position than the performance.
It's not as egregious, but it's like the "Superman doesn't kill / why doesn't he smile?" line of criticism. Nothing in-story prevents him from killing or inspires him to smile so those things happen as they would naturally.
It's a weird criticism to object to natural in-world consequences of what's happening... so the criticism becomes the ancillary, "Why did they write him to kill and not smile?"... in which case the issue is with the expectation not the action. Here, you're expecting Superman to be gung-ho and brilliant at threats... that's in-story contrary, so you blame the performance for not meeting an expectation that isn't setup by the context... then later some are probably going to blame the story for not setting up the context of your expectation. So we get a crazy, tautological: "He wasn't good at threats; The story didn't support him being good at threats; He should have been good at threats and his performance at being good at threats was bad."
This is often used with the death of Zod, people say, tautologically: "They were trying to make killing a big deal." / "They failed to build up that killing was a big deal." - Rarely realizing they're pointing out a failure of a goal they created and that the film didn't support, which is the very point they're trying to use as a criticism the second time around.
Thanks. I mean, if you think that MoS is the best comic book movie of all time, then you'll probably love BVS, and thats dope. I'd just say you're a small minority with that viewpoint.
I love the voice modulator personally. Makes a lot more sense than just making your voice deeper.
That said, the movie looks to be even worse than Man of Steel was.
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Well, if you don't mind mild spoilers (and we don't know whether or not this is really true):
Batman was chasing criminals or escaping (something like that) and Superman came out of nowhere and Batman didn't see him until the last seconds (that is why he's braking as you see in the previous spot). Dunno if this is all true or not, but it was something along those lines.
Maybe. I don't direct movies or write screenplays for a living. But I definitely think it would be an improvement if Batman had something more potent in his utility belt than a "Yeah, you better run!"
That scene doesn't shine a particularly flattering light on either Batman or Superman. Which is impressive for a movie that has both of their names in the title.
Wait, are you and PBY the same person? Lol Or did you just read his post in the BvS community thread and go "Yea, yea I'm gonna say that too"?
No, the face value reading is that Cavill is a bad actor who can't convincingly portray someone delivering a threat.
I'm genuinely curious as to how many more shit posts you've got in you.
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