This would create a situation where an abused wife would have to choose between her safety and her support.
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My ex wife is trying to destroy me...
- Thread starter ElfArmy177
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Ol No Bones
Banned
Wait.. They aren't?Honestly? Because she's not very smart..and I don't mean to be.. Mean but she doesn't know the difference between 1/2 cup and a 1/4th cup. She thought ducks were asexual, doesn't know the difference between horizontal and vertical... Told my 5 year old she can't help her with homework because she doesn't know what nouns are.
She even got pissed at me because on my taxes I'm claiming married but higher single rate because I thought the divorce would be over and I didn't want to claim married and then owe the IRS a ton of money. She said I only did it to make my checks lower to get rid of child support... I've explained numerous times that's not how it works but she says "no you're a liar and trying to get out of supporting your kids".
Fortunately for me the guardian even said " Mrs ********* is clearly not as intelligent as Mr. ********" to the judge (he said this behind closed doors infront of both lawyers and mine told me he said this" so I get to make 100% of all medical decisions.. But she gets to pick schools because she's the majority parent.. Ugh
Marty Chinn
Member
The guy has a responsibility if they made a joint agreement that he would work and she would stay at home to take care of the child. At that point the guy agreed she would sacrifice her career for him to support her. So the guy is on the hook to do so. You seem to make it sound like only one person made the decision.
Schwowsers
Member
To be fair, the judge has not yet ruled against him. This is merely ElfArmy117's lawyer's observation of the system. I find it hard to believe a judge would decide that this, now redundant, supplemental income is more valuable to a child than spending time with their father.
Did you sign any sort of paperwork or anything that would force you to give this much child support? Can't you just give her what's fair and force her to take it before a judge if she wants to press the issue? I can't imagine that a judge would find in her favor at that ridiculous percentage.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I am so sorry OP that's a horrendous story. I can't help thinking about your kids. This has to be a nightmare for them.
Bro this ain't exactly a common occurance
Bro this ain't exactly a common occurance
...Scatter...
Banned
In contrast, a good husband has to choose between being married to a crazy chick vs. living in poverty.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
You have made a lot of sacrifices and you probably need to make some more getting there. Argue that you make more money and that you're financially secure. My dad had my sister and I because he made way more money than my mom. You have to fight it like you're the better parent. Id even make an extra sacrifice by getting her out of your life. Maybe you do need to fight this again. Fight it until it's gone.
OP, I asked earlier, but didn't get a response. Are you confident that your ex-wife can adequately care for your three kids with less child support, than is being ordered? Three children are going to be terribly expensive and if her income is only $30,000, that's not going to cover much. I think you're looking at things incorrectly. It's not that you're being forced to give money to your ex-wife, you're giving the money to your children. Just as you thought two jobs were necessary to care for them before, wouldn't it still be necessary now? Really, the second job is to cover your new separate living expenses.
happend to my cousin not this severe and a couple of friends friends. and i laugh at lets get an prenup try actually bringing this up wtih your gf or potential wife she will get angry and say this marriage is already doomed from the start if u want a prenup.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
Always a bunch of angry men storming in to any talk about divorce complaining about alimony with claims of "How dare she take all my hard earned money!"
Decisions like having your spouse be a stay at home parent aren't made in a vacuum and the law isn't some hidden thing. The protections that come from marriage aren't some one-way street, they exist for both partners and as a stay at home dad myself (who just started working part-time), I'm glad these protections exist for me. If you aren't willing to support your spouse while they get back on their feet without you, someone you obviously cared for at some point in time, do some damn research and don't let yourself get into that situation in the first place. I think the OP is in a terrible situation, but he's made a lot of classic mistakes.
I really hope you find relief for your situation as you sound like a good dude, but there are a lot of lessons to be learned here as you move forward. I think it speaks a lot to your character that you're trying to work it out and not just run out on your children like some people here have suggested. You may just have to buckle down for the 3 years until the maintenance runs out (and in the meantime try to find a way to drop that second job). If you can, I might consider finding a second opinion as your lawyer sounds sort of shit.
Decisions like having your spouse be a stay at home parent aren't made in a vacuum and the law isn't some hidden thing. The protections that come from marriage aren't some one-way street, they exist for both partners and as a stay at home dad myself (who just started working part-time), I'm glad these protections exist for me. If you aren't willing to support your spouse while they get back on their feet without you, someone you obviously cared for at some point in time, do some damn research and don't let yourself get into that situation in the first place. I think the OP is in a terrible situation, but he's made a lot of classic mistakes.
I really hope you find relief for your situation as you sound like a good dude, but there are a lot of lessons to be learned here as you move forward. I think it speaks a lot to your character that you're trying to work it out and not just run out on your children like some people here have suggested. You may just have to buckle down for the 3 years until the maintenance runs out (and in the meantime try to find a way to drop that second job). If you can, I might consider finding a second opinion as your lawyer sounds sort of shit.
JimmyRustler
Member
You know, being 29 and single gives me thoughts sometime, but reading stories like this always makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing.
Real sorry for this OP. Had a workmate that went through something similar. Poor guy was living off of bread and butter for some time - literally I mean. He had to give everything he had for child support and on top of that his wife made his children hate him. Still has a broken relationship with this son.
He did come through though because now all his kids are working and he doesn't have to pay anything anymore. Recently fulfilled his dream and bought an Audi A8. I was super glad for him. He deserved it.
Real sorry for this OP. Had a workmate that went through something similar. Poor guy was living off of bread and butter for some time - literally I mean. He had to give everything he had for child support and on top of that his wife made his children hate him. Still has a broken relationship with this son.
He did come through though because now all his kids are working and he doesn't have to pay anything anymore. Recently fulfilled his dream and bought an Audi A8. I was super glad for him. He deserved it.
Op. Is ypur brother Charlie Harper?
Because this is like a episode of two and a half men.
I hope you the best, regrdless of my crude post i have sympathy for you. Some of my friends and one of my brothers ended in bitter divorces (my brother's still ongoing) but now we can laugh and joke about them.
Just don't lost hope. We are all here for you.
Because this is like a episode of two and a half men.
I hope you the best, regrdless of my crude post i have sympathy for you. Some of my friends and one of my brothers ended in bitter divorces (my brother's still ongoing) but now we can laugh and joke about them.
Just don't lost hope. We are all here for you.
Yeah. Pretty much.
Tons of shitty fathers essentially ruined it for the rest of us.
What bothers me is the fact that she was allowed to keep the kids despite having punched him. That is ridiculous.
Feel bad for the kids, but I would be filled with so much spite that I'd probably disappear and make sure she got nothing.
Who knows maybe I could get the kids down the line when they end up in foster care b/c she couldn't care for them
The wife is now employed, and is dating someone who may be employed - depending on their living situation, I think this might be the biggest opportunity for payment negotiation (mind you, I am -not- even kind of a lawyer). And it's not as though he needs to provide the exact same amount of money as they were before - originally it was a family of 5 he was supporting, and now the money he is giving needs to support a family of 4.
Finally, the wife has primary care, but a lot of that is because he works so much - he wants to work less and have more time with his children. If the children are only with the mother 5 days out of 7, then you can make the assumption that the total financial burden on the mother is lower than if they were there 7 days. I imagine all this potentially goes into the costs.
Also remember that the OP isn't able to guarantee he'll be making the money he was making previously, as he had to fight extremely hard to get the hours he did, just to pay the mortgage and keep the family afloat. His weekend job can't seem to provide the same level of work anymore, so his income is decreasing no matter what - but the burden is not.
And finally... the mental strain of working 7 days a week for another 2-3 years to make ends meet is inhumane. I just mean absolutely ridiculous - the net negative that will have on the health of him, and his relationship with his children should offset any adjustments that they all need to make (including the children) in their quality of life.
Maybe secretly install cameras in the house, then in court just calmly play all the tapes.
If she suspects anything just say its for
your own
Outtrigger888
Member
I've got 2 kids with my girlfriend of 10 years. I refuse to get married because of shit like this. Our house is in her name so if she wants me gone I have no baggage but the kids. Sorry OP and good luck.
CornBurrito
Member
Laughable.
I think we're crossing into reddit red pill territory now
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
There's nothing that says the man HAS to be the one to make all the money. A man could be the one that stays home with the kids. A man can sacrifice his career to raise kids too you know.
I'm sure his kids will be grateful. "Thanks for walking out on us dad and leaving us with our crazy mom to fend for ourselves. Father of the decade!"
And I'm glad that men (though let's be honest, you just mean you) are always innocent victims. Never any mistakes or fault there ever.
Agreed, you don't really know how it's going to work UNTIL you've had your first fight and gotten over it.
I was married less than 3 years; no kids. There was no abuse or anything like that; I just really fell out of love for a variety of reasons and left my wife. She said "well you paid for everything, so I guess you get everything" and I told her "I plan on helping you out."
A few weeks passed and neither of us had filed, then I get served papers randomly. It was full of lies, massive demands beyond my means, and she expected spousal support for years. It made no sense to me; no kids.. she was laid off from her job and I'd already been paying for her schooling since before we were even married.. none of my debt was listed, whereas she ltierally listed a credit card debt for me to pay that she had brought into the marriage and I had helped pay down, etc. Even her lies completely contradicted each other; she claimed I told her not to work and that I wanted her to be a house wife... but then she put in the divorce that she wanted me to pay for her to go to college for 2 more years... because.. she had been in college that I'd been paying for for 2 years.
Went to a lawyer, a good one, and he essentially told me that I had 2 choices.
1) Try to reason with her to get it lowered slightly, but still pay her far more than what should be the legal settelement.
2) Pay a laywer 10's of thousands of dollars, be embroiled in a lawsuit for years, and probably still have to pay her a good chunk of the money because of how female-centric the system is.
I opted for option 1. We haven't seen each other or spoken on the phone since the day she served me those papers. She basically chose to lose me as a friend forever so she could get some money out of me. She even got a bunch of shit off of me that I'd paid for before I even met her.. simply because she refused to budge on them and knew I wouldn't want to play hardball with her.
Felt like shit; in the end it was over $100k worth of cash and goods. For a 2.5 year marraige with no kids..
Honestly it's all rather sexist against women; I understand the concpet when it comes to kids particularly if the woman ends or forgoes a career in order to be more available for childcare.. but with no kids involved why in the world would a woman need tons of cash for a divorce for such a brief marriage? It's because the system basically treats them like children not adults.
A few weeks passed and neither of us had filed, then I get served papers randomly. It was full of lies, massive demands beyond my means, and she expected spousal support for years. It made no sense to me; no kids.. she was laid off from her job and I'd already been paying for her schooling since before we were even married.. none of my debt was listed, whereas she ltierally listed a credit card debt for me to pay that she had brought into the marriage and I had helped pay down, etc. Even her lies completely contradicted each other; she claimed I told her not to work and that I wanted her to be a house wife... but then she put in the divorce that she wanted me to pay for her to go to college for 2 more years... because.. she had been in college that I'd been paying for for 2 years.
Went to a lawyer, a good one, and he essentially told me that I had 2 choices.
1) Try to reason with her to get it lowered slightly, but still pay her far more than what should be the legal settelement.
2) Pay a laywer 10's of thousands of dollars, be embroiled in a lawsuit for years, and probably still have to pay her a good chunk of the money because of how female-centric the system is.
I opted for option 1. We haven't seen each other or spoken on the phone since the day she served me those papers. She basically chose to lose me as a friend forever so she could get some money out of me. She even got a bunch of shit off of me that I'd paid for before I even met her.. simply because she refused to budge on them and knew I wouldn't want to play hardball with her.
Felt like shit; in the end it was over $100k worth of cash and goods. For a 2.5 year marraige with no kids..
Honestly it's all rather sexist against women; I understand the concpet when it comes to kids particularly if the woman ends or forgoes a career in order to be more available for childcare.. but with no kids involved why in the world would a woman need tons of cash for a divorce for such a brief marriage? It's because the system basically treats them like children not adults.
Yeah some of the shit people are saying is pretty gross. He should not run, he had kids he very much loves and worse case scenario, while he might get fucked and have his ex hang this over his head, it's all for the kids. And even his wife, as terrible and abusive as she's been, deserves a level of humanity expressed her way. She shouldn't live in squalor.
The best thing he can do, like someone else said earlier, is persevere and succeed. I have a feeling in enough time, with the right attitude he'll come out on top. Until then, I think he needs to get more legal advice and find out what his best options are.
FlyStarJay
Member
i say quit the second job to spend time with the kids, as long as money is ok they should be fine, the kids needs your attention
Doubt it will happen she will figure out a way to get money out of him
prag16
Banned
I can agree with most of this, but #2 is crazy town. No relationship would ever last ever if everyone adhered to that. #1 is a little conservative too imo.
hey_monkey
Banned
Some of this advice... lord. There's no secret formula to the perfect marriage. You can date for five years and then get married and in year seven, someone starts to change. You can get a prenup and it fails. You can work a lot or a little or whatever and the results will all be different.
You need to be able to live and work with someone who can live and work with you, and then you have to keep actually working at it. It might not feel like work, but it is. That's it. There's no guarantee it'll stay like that, but you can try and if it doesn't work, you can choose to stay together or not. And all that looks different for different people.
The system, like all our systems in the US, is broken, but so are many relationships.
You need to be able to live and work with someone who can live and work with you, and then you have to keep actually working at it. It might not feel like work, but it is. That's it. There's no guarantee it'll stay like that, but you can try and if it doesn't work, you can choose to stay together or not. And all that looks different for different people.
The system, like all our systems in the US, is broken, but so are many relationships.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Sounds like a horrible situation op, I hope you can get out of it. While I don't know anyone personally that's been through this, your story reminds me greatly of actor Dave Foley's account of the ongoing nightmare that is his child support situation. Made a ton of bank off a sitcom he was on before the divorce, during the proceedings the usual "quality of life they were accustomed to" was used to force him to pay exorbitant amounts to the ex even though this was far from his income situation anymore. Guy can't even go back to his home country of Canada or he'll be arrested at the border due to tons of back payments being owed. Tales like his and yours terrify me of marriage+kids should things go down the divorce path. I hope you figure things out.
edit: Here's that Foley story for anyone interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaC-2lj6HNg
edit: Here's that Foley story for anyone interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaC-2lj6HNg
prag16
Banned
Yep, however it's almost guaranteed that any calls to alter the system to make it "kinder" to men would be met with strong resistance and charges of sexism. Double-edged sword.
Mr. Blonde
Member
OP,
If you dont mind saying, how old were you and her when you guys started dating, got married, and now? And how old are the kids?
If you dont mind saying, how old were you and her when you guys started dating, got married, and now? And how old are the kids?
I understand your point (that the ex-wife's living expenses are less if she's living with another man), but I also understand why the Court can't take that into consideration, especially in the case of child support. Unless she marries her boyfriend, any support she's receiving from him is completely voluntary and not guaranteed.
Also, I appreciate all of the points you've made, but I still wonder to what extent the lower payments would affect the children. The OP has new, separate living expenses now, which are probably significant. If he drops down to one income, it seems like it would obviously affect their quality of life. My perception might be biased though, because where I live, $75,000 would not cut it for 3 children.
I don't mean to discount how hard this is obviously going to be for the OP, because it sounds terrible. But I think he might be making it worse, by viewing it as an example of his greedy ex-wife trying to destroy him, instead of a possibly necessary sacrifice for the sake of his children.
It sucks but basically it comes to this: if you plan to divorce, don't say a single word. Fake it as much as you can and make it seem like everything is perfect. Use that time to create as much evidence as you can that will be used in your favor. Get a lawyer and start preparing your case. Make a list for every financial thing. Then, when you are ready, serve her the papers for divorce, preferably the very same day you've bought a camera and get U-haul truck so you can record it all. And have a lawyer with you when you move out.
How sad is it that a person needs to be underhanded as shit just to get a fair shot at a divorce? The court is supposed to be there to ensure everything is fair civil. Instead it always ends up being a war that makes all parties bitter as all hell. Even in cases where the divorce is amicable the lawyers instigate all kinds of shit to make a relatively painless process make you prefer to have your kidney forcefully removed without anesthetics instead.
How sad is it that a person needs to be underhanded as shit just to get a fair shot at a divorce? The court is supposed to be there to ensure everything is fair civil. Instead it always ends up being a war that makes all parties bitter as all hell. Even in cases where the divorce is amicable the lawyers instigate all kinds of shit to make a relatively painless process make you prefer to have your kidney forcefully removed without anesthetics instead.
Polioliolio
Member
Feel so bad for you.
My father went through hell and paid pretty much all the money he made for years and years to my mother, and fought tooth and nail in the courts to make sure he had part custody. The stories are crueler than one can even imagine.
If there really is no chance, you might just be better off going bankrupt, leaving the country, and promising to your children to come back someday and reconnect when they come of age.
My father went through hell and paid pretty much all the money he made for years and years to my mother, and fought tooth and nail in the courts to make sure he had part custody. The stories are crueler than one can even imagine.
If there really is no chance, you might just be better off going bankrupt, leaving the country, and promising to your children to come back someday and reconnect when they come of age.
TheVampire
Banned
what would happen if you actually did that?
Sell everything, keep the money and run away overseas?
Marty Chinn
Member
Nothing? I'm approaching 10 years of marriage in a 22 year relationship with two kids. I'd hardly say I'm getting nothing out of this. In fact, splitting bills, splitting chores, having someone that I can rely on to help me in life, especially if I'm feeling deathly ill in bed, and having double the income seems like a lot to gain rather than nothing. Not to mention some of the happiest moments in my life. I can't say I'd be happier without all that.
You might want to look up common-law marriage and see if it affects you. In some places, the situation you're in makes you married under common law marriage even if you didn't file for marriage.
On the surface this sounds right, but given how our society is heavily weighted in favor of males over females, the fact that females have one advantage in one area makes it hard to be completely upset over it. Maybe if guys want equality when it comes to marriage and children, they should start fighting for equality in the workplace and other areas.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
You innocent fool. The state takes a cut of child support, and probably alimony/palimony as well. It takes years to get the amount reduced because it's a source of income. Once an income is stated, that's it, they never let it go down. If it goes up, of course, they'll take more in a heartbeat.
LMFAO
Are you joking? Don't you think you doing the whole deadbeat dad softshoe would automatically disqualify you? You know, for doing the exact kind of thing that lead to this sort of family law system needing to exist in the first place?
He would be abandoning his children.
This is complete nonsense.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Your story makes is making me fucking seethe.
Nope. People can be such fucking cunts. I can assure you that gender has nothing to do with the ability to be a cunt. :3
This thread is really getting me angry. Prenup confirmed for me.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Prenuptial agreements are one thing, when kids are involved, all bets are off. You are better off fighting for custody at that time. That was my mistake.
Frozenprince
Banned
So what you're saying is you've never been emotionally invested in another human being to the point where you miss these things because you didn't have the benefit of hindsight and outside observation.
Gotcha.
This is how abusive relationships are. Are you saying every person that's been a victim of an abusive relationship deserved it because they didn't recognize the warning signs?
Marty Chinn
Member
I think a lot of people in this thread are confused how a prenup works. A prenup protects assets you had before you got married. Anything made after you get married gets divided up. A prenup doesn't mean you break it off without splitting assets or owing alimony.
He had outside observation told to him and he ignored it. He had blatant in your face things that took place, and he ignored it. You don't need hindsight in his case.
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