That's what I think they're going. In a very real sense that is the death of the xbox brand as we know it and it become MS TV.
Microsoft Releasing Exclusive Games on PC Is Great for Xbox Owners
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
That's what I think they're going. In a very real sense that is the death of the xbox brand as we know it and it become MS TV.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
What do you consider dead? If Xbone sales tank horribly and they won't gain momentum even at the holiday season, the installed base remains the same (look at Wii U), do you consider the console dead or a thriwing platform for players? If the sales tank, do you think MS will abandon ship along with a quite a few disappointed owners?
Can PC players bring enough money in (we need to remember that Win 10 store sucks) that MS justifies the horrendous 1st party game sales on Xbone (and eventually the expenses as well)?
How can they justify all this to their shareholders, whom have been loud for a few years already. They want sales, not MAU spins.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
That's cool, but I still see them putting out $400 Xbox. As stated, they want to make premium hardware to showcase their software and services. They aren't going to be doing that with a $99 device. Unless they completely kill off Microsoft Game Studios, of course.
Maybe also an enthusiast Xbox that costs a few hundred more that has additional horse power under the hood for 4K gaming.
Nope. It's good for Xbox gamers the moment I can play killer Instict, halo wars 2, gigantic, sea of theives with my friends on PC.
I'll also take comfort in knowledge that additional sales will encourage continued support for titles and franchises that I enjoy.
- more game sales, more money to dev, more chance for sequal
Yes. Likely. New iterations of QB/Halo/Gears etc... are more likely if they sell more copies no matter the platform.
- similar argument, more game sales, more money, more new IP
New IP's come independently unrelated to this. They would need a shift in management. A key failing of MS is the focus on successful IP's which has driven a lot of talent away. (Rare is a husk, Bungie jumped ship, Epic is out)
- more player populations
Sure.
- cross buy, free PC copy
Yes, consumer plus.
- lost Xbox sales is minimal and MS don't care because you are in the ecosystem anyway, MS win either way.
This one remains to be seen. We don't know. We're all guessing. The way the business worked in the past moves like this (Hudson making bonk for the SNES) are usually the harbinger of the end.
Also MS can lose-lose. Losing potential XB sales and having the W10 store flop anyways.
- if Eco system sucess, next box will be more attractive and competitive.
If the W10 Store is a massive success the next XB will be a Apple TV rip off and not a console per se. Win-Lose. Lose-Lose is still an option. W10 Store is their 3rd attempt at this on PC and given the same situation except dominating on consoles led to 2 previous failures.
(GFWL-W8 App Store). From the market standpoint they are repeating the exact same mistakes and offering less value than their competitors and hoping to win big anyways.
Market wise they're in a tough spot in both markets. I'm not sure if their leadership would sustain a war on 2 fronts.
Yeah. If the sales start looking like WiiU I would consider it dead... But there is no indication of that happening. Not even close.
The bulk of MS revenues in gaming has come from 3rd party licensing and services up until this point. That business isn't going anywhere. Now they have the potential to add 1st party PC sales to that list. That's how they justify it to shareholders it's more money coming in.
The win10 store sucks because there are no good games in. This initiative starts to change that.
wapplew
Member
I'm on the same page, I can see the lose-lose or win-lose situation.
For them to pull a win-win they need to have perfect execution plus something genius.
Everyone know Eco system is very profitable, but saying it is the future is like saying smart phone is the future in 2015, that ship have sailed like 5 years ago and I think MS is yet another late to the party on this one.
I agree. Aside from their core business (Azure, Office, OS) they seem to be chasing what their competition was doing a few years ago.
Anytime they are ahead of the curve some other portion of their business interferes and brings it down.
Steverulez
Member
2016
- Crackdown 3
- Gears of War 4
- Halo Wars 2
- Quantum Break New IP
- ReCore New IP
- Sea of Thieves New IP
- Cobalt (Co-published with Mojang) New IP
- Fable Legends
- Gigantic New IP
- Killer Instinct: Season 3
2017
- Scalebound New IP
That may have changed when Spencer took over. We know MS was beating the drum for their core 3 a lot (Halo, Gears, Fable) under Mattrick.
wapplew
Member
Luckily they can use their PC OS monopoly as leverage everytime. I don't know how much weight it will pull, given the state of Windows phone, I guess it will become the Origin/Uplay for MS.
But who knows, console and PC is relatively similar then PC and phone, maybe things will be different this time.
Memorabilia
Member
Agreed, especially if cross-buy/cross-play becomes standard.
The only thing is, I'm personally not too sure about buying games from the Windows store. I've already got enough clients to worry about with Steam and GOG. For the most part, I refuse to buy Ubi or EA games because of how shit-tastic their DRM clients have been. So, unless MS can come up with a seamless/unobtrusive/stable client (which is easy to launch thru Steam) then I'd probably pass up most games. I just dont need the aggravation.
Still, I can see the bonus of cross-buy titles I buy on Xbone and automatically have access to on my PCs as something that could entice me over time.
The only thing is, I'm personally not too sure about buying games from the Windows store. I've already got enough clients to worry about with Steam and GOG. For the most part, I refuse to buy Ubi or EA games because of how shit-tastic their DRM clients have been. So, unless MS can come up with a seamless/unobtrusive/stable client (which is easy to launch thru Steam) then I'd probably pass up most games. I just dont need the aggravation.
Still, I can see the bonus of cross-buy titles I buy on Xbone and automatically have access to on my PCs as something that could entice me over time.
LukasTaves
Member
Related to the first two but:
- More game sales, more 3rd party support, including from regions where devs are just ignoring xbone like Japan.
And also:
- Guarantee that your library will always be accessible on future consoles, no more begging for BC.
- With an expanded marketplace they also have more incentive to bring BC for 360, OGxbox and xblig into the store, as there will more potential new players.
#sorrynotsorry
Member
MS wanted to win the console generation, and it was certainly a goal. But it wasn't the goal. MS isn't investing in a highly volatile market with low profit potential for the money. That would be stupid.
The goal is to get the MS name out there. It ALWAYS has been. They need to do well. They don't need to win and they don't need to even make profit necessarily.
They tried to leverage that before. Valve was prepping an OS alternative rather than deal with MS trying to strangle them. The base system and libraries would be PS4 friendly (Linux like) so the game port path would be PS4 -> Steam OS.
Then MS backed off.
Do you have Windows 10? If not, the store is a preinstalled (uninstallable) app right on the taskbar. You download the app (game in this sense) and you have the icon for the game in which you launch it. There's no other launcher, it's just the app itself. No waiting for the W10 store to load. It's very seamless.
LukasTaves
Member
And another huge plus: You can log in tot he store using a different account and install any purchases from the other account. Great for family sharing as each purchase can give you 10 devices to install.
Yep, this is what I plan on doing with my friend.
Swass
Member
Internet Explorer came preinstalled as well, it didn't make a difference, Chrome, Firefox etc. still won out and IE is now dead..
What does that have to do with what I was talking about and responding to? Xbox is gonna die, ok, got it...moving on.
You must be joking.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Actually you can uninstall all these apps, but it needs some intense cutting (there's some 3rd party software for help). It's used to keep Windows spyfree, aka you'll uninstall/disable these prebuilt apps because they keep contacting Microsoft servers for reasons still unknown.
Also for anyone with Win10, please use Ultimate Windows Tweaker to disable everything under the Privacy tab. Windows 10 is terrific OS; it's fast, smooth and light (IMHO it's probably the best MS OS in that regard), but goddamn Microsoft wants to know what its users are doing. Full of spyware-esque code. It even actively scans your HDDs for torrent files/ware.
Wasn't his statement more like their 3rd attempt at a PC Store will fail to take hold again.
I think they're aspiring for the iOS app store.
The Mac App Store did mostly kill off what remained of the boxed software business for the Mac. It wasn't much to start with but the survivors shifted to the Mac App Store and it has tons of the iOS App put stuff there too.
Sure they do. Windows. They just con't control it in the same fashion and the players there would find other options if they tried to strong arm them.
Swass
Member
You were stating that the Windows 10 store comes pre installed, I assume you were making this point as an advantage it has over other PC stores like Steam.. My point was this doesn't really mean much and gave the internet explorer example. I did not use it as a reference to the Xbox brand, sorry it wasn't clear.
It's more sales because the games WEREN'T coming to PC eventually... MS simply hasn't been too open to bringing their 1st party titles to PC. That's why people scoffed everytime they said they were going to better support PC gaming.
Most games don't suffer the mouse controller issue... Outside of shooters, where does the discrepancy lie?
Why do you keep suggesting MS needs to aspire to control the market? Initially, they need to aspire to carve out an Origin style userbase.succeeding in that, maybe down the line they can be another option for third parties. But that isn't an immediate issue.
I quoted what he was talking about using the apps from the store being seamless...which it is. It's not like running a Steam game (in which steam has to be running). That's all.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
I'm just putting what I thing of those arguments:
-It being on the Windows store doesn't guarantee more sale or at least in a substantial amount since the W10 Store as for now no core gaming userbase and the stigma of GFWL
-Same as above
-Same as above
-That's not a benefit for xbox owners since according to this thread they don't care about PC gaming
-I agree with this but that does not benefit Xbox owners
-Same as above
No. He was responding to a poster complaining that you have to install yet another store on the PC. He only said that's already installed\baked into Windows 10.
serversurfer
Member
"You know, we have a product for people who want something that's not as shitty as our primary offering; it's called XBox One."
Don? Is it really you?
Here's what you're missing; what initially precipitated these changes, and the fact that Phil is using an atypical though accurate meaning of "more" when he says, "This means Bone owners get more games."
So as Phil explained, having "XBox games" on PC is a good thing, because that means they can afford to make them. The alternative being to leave them XBox-exclusive and not being able to afford them, like poor, ol' Sunset Overdrive, right? So what you're missing is that even Microsoft can't afford to make exclusives for their own console. So you get ports of their PC games, or you get nothing. This isn't actually giving you more games than you had before, but rather, slowing the loss of games, and then only the Microsoft games, and then only if they find success on W10, and then only if Bone owners continue buying enough copies to justify the cost of the port, which I'm reasonably certain is still non-zero, despite the conventional "wisdom" on the subject.
The Hatter: Would you like some more tea?
Alice (bewildered): But I haven't had any tea!
The Hatter: Well then, this would be more, wouldn't it?
Phil is basically saying that from here on out, the best that Bone owners can hope for is ports from other platforms, but if nothing else, MS will keep porting their PC games for as long as they possibly can, and others may even do the same. So look on the bright side, at least they haven't given up on you completely yet! Yay for more support!! Es gibt noch mehr!!
It doesn't helpfully log you in to Live automatically when you log in to the computer so you can get your messages and invites and stuff? Are you certain?
I think you're grossly overestimating the cost effectiveness of your proposal. You're saying that all these games need do is generate foot traffic in their store, but that sounds like a dickload of money to have tied up in something that could just as easily be accomplished by a simple commercial or even a 10% discount on someone else's software. You know, the software you're hoping to make your real money on anyway? Sony and Nintendo's exclusives attract something far better than mere foot traffic. Their exclusives are the roller coasters that lure you in to the amusement park, where you spend the entire day buying junk food that costs a bit more than normal, but hey, these coasters can't be found anywhere else.
If potentially increased foot traffic justified investing in the development of exclusive games on any scale then why do we not see GameStop employing that strategy to increase traffic in their floundering stores? Not even Walmart have their own roller coasters. Gotta go to Six Flags if you want that shit.
I suspect the reasoning is more along the lines of, "Even if we can't lure the XBox faithful back to the Windows mothership, perhaps we can at least avoid having them talk bad about us by not pissing directly in to their mouths."
Why would you assume that, when Phil explained they can't afford to make them otherwise? We heard from insiders H5 had a worldwide launch of less than 1.5M units sold through. Should that remain Bone-exclusive, or would it benefit from an injection of PC cash?
Actually, it sounds like a lot of PC gamers are indeed choosing XBox for their console needs, but now that XBox doesn't offer anything unique compared to PC, they may well decide that PlayStation is the better compliment to their PC, because playing the same games in your choice of rooms doesn't sound as good as additionally being able to play Uncharted, Horizon, Dreams, and RIGS. But clearly PC/XBox owners aren't getting their multiplats on PC as a general rule, or XBox wouldn't have its famously high tie ratios.
So, we know from the infographic that there's actually a fairly strong overlap between PC and console gaming, and that while PC gamers are currently aligned more with XBox, the loss of new/exclusive content there should tip a lot of those XB360 towards PlayStation when it comes time to jump in to Gen8, which most consumers have yet to do at this point. Further, despite the apparently strong cross-over between PC and console gaming, it seems that whether you're PC/XB or PC/PS, most of your actual spending is being done on "the console." So yes, it seems like this would cause sales of 3rd-party multiplats to drop. Or rather, not grow as much as they might've. Of course, see above regarding "more" actually being the lesser of two evils in this particular case.
"I chose the Bone because it was more powerful. Yes, obviously it's not as powerful than the one I could've gotten for less money! I meant compared to the one I had before."
"I chose PS4 because of its awesome library of games, but fuck Kratos and his bitch, Drake! Pussies."
You make strange assumptions
Okay, now I'm pretty sure you're just making this stuff up. Do you have a source for any or all of these claims? I'm pretty sure this was asked of all Gen8 owners, whether they upgraded within their ecosystem, cross-upgraded, were multi-console owners, or were complete virgins, and I think the only question asked of them was, "And why did you decide to buy that one?" Then NPD counted up the boxes that were ticked most for each console, giving us the Top 5 for each.
Not exactly. Actually, Phil's argument is that rather than slowing the growth of the Bone, this move is meant to slow its decline, and he makes a fair point.
Maybe we're not talking about the same thing? I don't think anyone is questioning whether this is a good move for MS; it clearly is. I thought the question here is whether or not it's a good thing for Bone owners specifically, and it sounds like it's either bad news being delivered in the best way possible, or it's straight up good news, like hearing your execution has been delayed for up to a month, while they try to come up with a more humane method.
Seriously, even porting from iPhone to iPad isn't quite that easy, and you'll actually need to put some effort in to the iPad version if you don't want people to think of it as ass.
Ports aren't free.
I'll bite. What would you call a console that can't support first-party exclusives? A Vita?
Yup. Not only have they not already tried and failed there *cough*
WebTV
bruno_spec
Neo Member
I guess the majority of people are not seeing PC as a gaming platform like Xbox. PC has its exclusives like Wow, Starcraft 2, lots of moba. Without exclusives Xbox is offering less than PC in terms of titles, let alone graphical quality. I'm sorry, but i cant see how this is good for Xbox as a brand.
Case 1:
- I have a gaming PC and i want a console
PS4 and Wii U bring new titles to the table , Xbox does not
Case 2:
- I do not own a gaming PC and i want a console
PS4 and wii u games arent coming to pc anytime soon, i'll choose between them since i can play Xbox one games on PC when i get the money to buy a gaming PC
Case 3:
- I have an Xbox One and a PC
Redundant
Case 1:
- I have a gaming PC and i want a console
PS4 and Wii U bring new titles to the table , Xbox does not
Case 2:
- I do not own a gaming PC and i want a console
PS4 and wii u games arent coming to pc anytime soon, i'll choose between them since i can play Xbox one games on PC when i get the money to buy a gaming PC
Case 3:
- I have an Xbox One and a PC
Redundant
wapplew
Member
Wow, hold on now, how these become the result of Xbox exclusive release on Windows store?
Releasing console titles on PC is not the new thing, Japanese publisher have been doing that lately on PS4 and steam.
Secondly, unified Eco system doesn't guarantee your library always be accessible in the future, not from that guy who made your GFWL library disappear.
Wait, Did I just reply to /s post?
Interesting observation and quite logical with just one caveat...we don't know how bad it's inside the house of Xbox yet (to say they can't afford to make Xbox One exclusives with absolute certainty going forward). It's an interesting PR read from Phil's words - if he were on a leash to improve ROI to justify the budgets. We do agree however that at the very least it's bad enough that a shift in strategy (that is going to weaken the Xbox console business) has taken place. No way to sugar coat it. The business is predicated on adoption, PERIOD. Anything that weakens that in a multitude of ways like this does just serves as a signal of things to come. A company in the console business acts actively to improve adoption, not weaken the prospects of hardware adoption. This move plays into competitor hands like Sony's and plays into consumers with PC's who no longer have a need to adopt an Xbox One (hardware cut $$, Xbox Live $$, third-party royalty cut, any other miscellaneous royalty cut aka the business). That and the context in which all of this is developing - Xbox's diminished brand in both the U.S and much worse worldwide.... it all adds up.
I do believe that if Phil is any sort of savior, he's the savior that saved the public-relations side of the Xbox brand. Cause the Xbox console business is certainly not going to be it by the looks of it.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Obviously we don't know that. But if we follow the "this move will bring more games to XBOX One!" line of thinking then this also means that serversurfer's right with that one: Right now, the argument "it's too risky or not promising enough to release a game on XBOX One alone, hence this move is the savior" doesn't work unless you agree that exclusive games aren't viable on XBOX One alone. If "delivering / securing more exclusive games" was part of MS's specification book within this strategy, than this says a lot about the state (and future) of XBOX One.
Case 4:
-I don't want or can afford to build a gaming PC and want a console
PS4, Wii U and Xbox* have each own exclusives, so I choose the one with the exclusive I like.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Yes, but then the true differentiator for XBOX One is "price", not "exclusives". Hence, you choose XBOX One because you cannot afford the other option, but you choose PS4 or WiiU because you cannot have their exclusives anywhere else. And that might hurt XBOX brand more than you think.
wapplew
Member
His somewhat right thou, if you want QB and don't want a PC, you only have one choice.
If one don't have any preference, then your case is true.
Not really. You can apply that logic to any ecosystem regardless of its performance in isolation. Let's for example assume SFV happened, but is reliant on the existence of the PC port in order to make sense. Does this then say a lot about the state (and future) of the PS4?
Maybe a $40m Quantum Break is feasible on the Xbox One alone, but a $40m Sunset Overdrive isn't. Maybe a $60m Quantum Break becomes feasible with the addition of Windows 10. There's no point trying to simplify everything down as far as "the platform can't sustain an exclusive"... that's just stupid.
But games that sell consoles are often passion games. Stuff that you REALLY want and can't have elsewhere.
QB doesn't look like that. I think Gears or Crackdown later might be that sort. QB is like Heavy rain/Until Dawn. Nice if you already have the system but not something you'd miss otherwise.
It doesn't have a strong individual draw.
They can get the Xbox brand stronger, the one that maybe can get hurt is the console (Xbox One). For this to happen they need to make the games section of the W10 store, the Xbox pc store or something like that, so when you buy or play a game you are using the xbox app or store. But lets see if they do that.
And the console personally I don't think it will be affected like some people are trying to say and wanting to happen.
It's very clear it's more about trying to push the W10 store and they don't care much about what ti does to the XB1.
When those games were planned the amount they would sell on the XB1 must have been considered.
MS is too good at the fundamentals of the project cycle. They also have enough capital to eat the loss if they wanted. Eat a lot of loss if they felt there was a good reason (OXB. first 4 years of 360).
I have to start the Xbox app every time. I just looked at the settings in the app and there is no option to automatically launch it on login.
I think you're grossly underestimating the potential affects of repeatedly drawing in consumers to a store and cross sells. I remember Jeff Bezos saying like 10 years ago around 35% of their sales were from cross sells. They say the easiest time to upsell someone is when they have their wallet open.
Since MS has a strong lineup of game IP it seems like a good place to start building more Windows Store consumers. Over time they may start offering additional exclusives (lord help GAF the first time they do a third-party timed release in there). They're starting at the ground floor with this thing, so it makes sense to leverage what they can to drive as many people in it as possible.
Additionally, we can't forget that Nadella is the one who pointed out that gaming is the biggest category in terms of time spent and revenue in the mobile world. In other words, a successful digital ecosystem has to have games, so they need to get as many gamers using it as possible to show devs it's worth making more games for.
All of the digital stores need their hooks. They do it by way of exclusive offers, sales, membership rewards, etc. Amazon has Prime that gives you discounts on shipping plus access to their TV selection, and they're developing some of their own shows to drive more subscribers. Apple will sometimes have a music artist with a time-exclusive digital release to drive more music sales. They don't need to do anything to drive app sales, because they already have those locked down.
Brick and mortar stores do it, too. Gamestop has a reward program (not a very good one), gives credit back for used games, or buys them back from you. Best Buy now has a Gamer Club that gives big discounts on pre-orders. Wal-Mart doesn't do those, so some consumers will find those offers valuable and may even become loyal, repeat buyers.
I read your amusement park analogy like 7 times and it doesn't make sense in any context I can imagine, but couldn't make sense of it.
This would still depend on the criteria they're using. You have to launch the Xbox App manually if you want to do something directly with it... however if someone else sends you a message or invite etc, it'll always be ready to notify you, even if you haven't launched the app since the last reboot.
They have to convince publishers there is value to give MS a percentage on a previously free and open platform where there are a multitude of other distributors. If the price is low enough may they'd do it as a experiment.
The rub is they've done this before and it generate more ill will than sales (windows 8 app store) or outright failed due to preposterously bad execution (GFWL)
What's in it for the publishers? Right now they feel fine cutting valve in because valve had the largest distribution and takes care of some problems for them.
If the publishers aren't in then it's just MS Uplay. The thing you install for that 1 game, hate the fact they did this and begrudgingly run.
Also the majority of the PC market is Blizzard, Riot, and Valve non including steam. CD Project red and Valve again if you include the stores. Each of those players have their own shops. If MS is too forceful then those players would look for an alternative. Steam OS is a bit of joke now because Valve is only doing it half heartily but if MS leverage Windows to make Steam impossible then they will get on it and if MS endangers bnet or League; valve might find allies.
Most home PC's run windows because it's convenient and has the games. If the games go, the OS may find it's markets hare shrink.
MS can't push too hard, but if they don't there just isn't a great value proposition there. They might be able to convert XBox fans but a lot of the rest of the game market is wary of shenanigans and MS has a long history of shenanigans in other market segments.