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[Michael F. Assbender]

Didn't you just get done saying this?

Yep. My point is I don't like to argue about who is more ______ and who is less ________. You're either _______ or not.

In the case of Sanders supporters voting for Clinton, that's pragmatism, not semantics. If she's the only Democratic candidate left (which she'd have to be in the general), don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

[googleplex]

Republican response to Hillary's win:

Lol the Republicans hopping and praying the Bernie wins the nomination speaks volumes.

 

[Touchdown]

Yeah, this is the most concerning thing. I know I know, anecdotes and all that, but from my observation the language being aimed at Hillary from the Sanders camp is unlike anything I remember seeing between Hillary and Obama's campaigns in 2008 in how vicious it is. The most you really see from Clinton supporters is concerns about Bernie promising things he couldn't possibly deliver and being a bit naive, but most people that I know generally like the guy and I think a lot of the party generally agrees with Bernie's destination even if we seriously disagree with the way to get there. But the attacks on Hillary from his supporters range from disliking her policies to pissing on her as a person. It's terrible, and as bad as any Republican onslaught.

Going forward, I'd definitely like to see Bernie keep fighting (because he HAS made Hillary a stronger candidate), but as the writing becomes a bit more clearer on the wall I hope he changes his language to discourage some of the vitriol being stirred up among his supporters.

Roy as usual your post is on point here. Agreed.

 

[Kthulhu]

Is that why he's never been a Democrat?

He didn't need to be a Democrat up until now. If he was running as an independent, I wouldn't call him pragmatic.

 

[Mecha]

How many times is Bernie going to repeat the word "establishment"?

Bernie without the establishment is like Trump without Mexico, China, or the wall.

 

[sphagnum]

Then the candidates would be openly talking bad about themselves.

Nothing wrong with a good old class traitor.

 

[massivekettle]

Expect it to be a new attack on Obama.

It's been widely used as an attack.

http://bfy.tw/4Mpy

explain this further?

Popularity-wise. His ratings are better than Bush's but trailing Clinton and Reagan.

 

[Manmademan]

I dont get this, whenever the low turnout gets brought up people bring up Bernie not being as exciting as obama. Well that maybe true but he does have excitement. No one thinks about the low turnout for the lack of excitement for Hillary, let not forget that. The turnout is low bc no one cares about Hillary OR the fact that the dnc tries to hand her the nomination so why bother voting in the primary.

don't get defensive.

Obama was an extraordinary, exceptional candidate that managed to beat hillary clinton at the peak of her popularity which was no small feat. 08 broke records when it happened- it's not just "lack of excitement" that's responsible for lower numbers, Obama created enthusiasm across the board because he was so transformative.

Hillary '16 isn't Hillary '08, clearly- but the lack of someone of Obama's stature in the race competing with her means that turnout simply isn't going to be here. And sanders interesting as he is, is going to get bodied on super tuesday and is pretty much the walking dead. Obama drove turnout to a victory damn near all the way to the convention- Sanders isn't in this class. His coalition is far narrower and can't sustain the kind of numbers that Obama could, especially since its so reliant on young voters who are notorious for not showing up to polls.

 

[Trouble]

Republican response to Hillary's win:

Damn, they are terrified of a 68 year old grandmother.

 

[Manmademan]

Popularity-wise. His ratings are better than Bush's but trailing Clinton and Reagan.

Obama is EXACTLY as popular as Reagan was at this point in both their terms.

Republican revisionist history has convinced a lot of people that Reagan was more popular than he actually was.

 

[Mecha]

Lol the Republicans hopping and praying the Bernie wins the nomination speaks volumes.

It double sides as an attack towards Hillary, saying how weak her support is.

 

[Holmes]

Watching The Young Turks on YouTube and they are mad salty.

"Shes more unelectable"
"Timing of caucuses were in favor of older voters, favoring Clinton"
"Sanders OBLITERATED her lead with Latinos"
"He only needs to win everything else"
"Its not really a win for her, only 5%"

The mental gymnastics......................

Love it! Unfortunately I'll be hearing it tonight when my husband listens to it.

 

[Effect]

How's that working out in general? I think it's much easier said than done.

As for Obama campaigning alongside Clinton, I wouldn't be so sure. First off, not sure that they are seeing eye-to-eye, and second, whilst Obama is no W (towards the end of his presidency), he's definitely no Clinton or Reagan.

There is no way Obama won't do everything he can to help Clinton win. A republican destroys his legacy and she makes sure it stays. It's no secret she's his choice going by what is being said. A full court press to get out votes for the actually nominee is different then what happens during primary season.

 

[Rubenov]

Yeah, he came off well spoken and intelligent in the town hall. Him and Nikki Haley would be scary to face the dem candidate in the general.

How many times are you going to repeat this? Rubio is a child with no accomplishments and hard right positions. Not buying it.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

You get to say this because you don't get hurt.

I get directly hurt by the GOP getting control of the executive office - losing backing for LGBT support in the DoJ is a huge setback that will actively hurt many people.

I would like to live in the dream world some of these people are in. Voting for Hillary if Bernie doesn't get the nomination is about, at the very least, keeping the progress that has been made the past 8 years. If a Republican gets into office(with a GOP House and Senate) there is no guarantee that a lot of that stuff won't be immediately roll'd back and have to be fought over again.

Forget about not getting new stuff you want, it's about keeping the stuff you already have fought for.

 

[Trident]

Yep. My point is I don't like to argue about who is more ______ and who is less ________. You're either _______ or not.

In the case of Sanders supporters voting for Clinton, that's pragmatism, not semantics. If she's the only Democratic candidate left (which she'd have to be in the general), don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

"Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" is an argument in favor of recognizing degree over simplistic binary analysis. You can't have it both ways - either you recognize nuance and degree, or you don't.

 

[Trouble]

Obama is EXACTLY as popular as Reagan was at this point in both their terms.

Republican revisionist history has convinced a lot of people that Reagan was more popular than he actually was.

Also that he was a lot more conservative than he actually was.

 

[Box of Kittens]

I'd rather watch the Republicans burn everything to the ground to prove that they're legitimately crazy than to have another term of stagnant progress.

This never works. It's basically a strategy to allow your opponent to inflict the maximum possible damage. And crazy has surprisingly many supporters, no matter how miserable of a job they do. Don't be at all surprised if a Republican president elected in 2016 gets re-elected in 2020, just like George W. Bush did. Then you'll have a Democratic president after that who has to devote way to much time and energy to cleaning up the mess left behind instead of actually making real progress, and doing so in a situation where the Republicans have cemented conservative rule of the Supreme Court for another generation.

 

[Manmademan]

Also that he was a lot more conservative than he actually was.

This also.

 

[Mecha]

I don't like these weird sport event promos for the primaries that CNN makes.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Yeah, he came off well spoken and intelligent in the town hall. Him and Nikki Haley would be scary to face the dem candidate in the general.

"No abortions, even in the case of rape" is not going to play well with centrists with Supreme Court seats on the line.

Rubio won't stand up to the slightest bit of pressure. He's an inexperienced spaz.

 

[renegade_dewitt]

Man, I don't understand why Bernie is going through the touch Democratic nomination route. He could've easily ran as an Independent and wouldn't have had to go through this and still have gotten votes. Am I missing something here?

 

[Blader]

I'm not going to lie, that's how I feel right now. Hillary Clinton is just another 90s centrist who actively supported DOMA and NAFTA and only within the last five years has pushed for more progressive measures. I'll give her points for pushing for a single payer system but now that she's the highest donated candidate from pharmaceutical and insurance companies I don't see her doing much to push that forward if she became president.

If Hillary wins the nomination, I honestly don't know if I'll come out to vote. I don't want another centrist president that vaguely pushes the status quo that Reagan set in 1980. I'd rather watch the Republicans burn everything to the ground to prove that they're legitimately crazy than to have another term of stagnant progress.

So rather than incremental progress, you'd rather undo all of the progress made the last 8 years just to prove a point to...nobody in particular I guess? Because it's not as if conservatives will ever believe their party is "legitimately crazy" and vote Dem, or that liberals need any more convincing not to vote GOP.

 

[Basileus777]

Man, I don't understand why Bernie is going through the touch Democratic nomination route. He could've easily ran as an Independent and wouldn't have had to go through this and still have gotten votes. Am I missing something here?

He doesn't want to hand the Presidency to the Republicans by running as a 3rd party?

 

[Oriel]

Is Michael Bay directing tonight's CNN coverage? It's all very exciting.

 

[crimsonspider89]

Man, I don't understand why Bernie is going through the touch Democratic nomination route. He could've easily ran as an Independent and wouldn't have had to go through this and still have gotten votes. Am I missing something here?

He wouldn't of gained core democratic party votes and just split liberal votes allowing a conservative into the white house which isn't what he wants.

 

[Kyosaiga]

Man, I don't understand why Bernie is going through the touch Democratic nomination route. He could've easily ran as an Independent and wouldn't have had to go through this and still have gotten votes. Am I missing something here?

He would've guarantee a GOP presidency. That would've been a massive massive mistake on his part

 

[Chindogg]

You get to say this because you don't get hurt directly by the social policies.

I get directly hurt by the GOP getting control of the executive office - losing backing for LGBT support in the DoJ is a huge setback that will actively hurt many people.

Obama is a center-left guy, and look at how far things have been pulled in his two terms - nothing happens lightning fast.

Not a whole lot was pulled by him. The populace changed for LGBT and forced the issue of change upon the Supreme Court. He himself had to shift because Biden opened his mouth on public TV.

I understand your fears and I deeply apologize, but I'm tired of our generation being completely fucked over because the previous generation shorted us for their brief prosperity. I'm not going to keep struggling for another 20 years in hopes that it'll get better.

At this point it's more prudent for things to just collapse with people being so pissed that they actually vote in midterm elections and throw out the Republicans than to go through another four years of bullshit stagnant gridlock and voter apathy where corporations continue to fuck us over.

This never works. It's basically a strategy to allow your opponent to inflict the maximum possible damage. And crazy has surprisingly many supporters, no matter how miserable of a job they do. Don't be at all surprised if a Republican president elected in 2016 gets re-elected in 2020, just like George W. Bush did. Then you'll have a Democratic president after that who has to devote way to much time and energy to cleaning up the mess left behind instead of actually making real progress, and doing so in a situation where the Republicans have cemented conservative rule of the Supreme Court for another generation.

So rather than incremental progress, you'd rather undo all of the progress made the last 8 years just to prove a point to...nobody in particular I guess? Because it's not as if conservatives will ever believe their party is "legitimately crazy" and vote Dem, or that liberals need any more convincing not to vote GOP.

I'm not convinced that we'll get incremental progress with Hillary, unlike Obama. That's just how I feel, sorry.

This whole notion that I have to vote for a lesser evil every four years has become tiresome and I'm just done with it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm not going to lie, that's how I feel right now. Hillary Clinton is just another 90s centrist who actively supported DOMA and NAFTA and only within the last five years has pushed for more progressive measures. I'll give her points for pushing for a single payer system but now that she's the highest donated candidate from pharmaceutical and insurance companies I don't see her doing much to push that forward if she became president.

If Hillary wins the nomination, I honestly don't know if I'll come out to vote. I don't want another centrist president that vaguely pushes the status quo that Reagan set in 1980. I'd rather watch the Republicans burn everything to the ground to prove that they're legitimately crazy than to have another term of stagnant progress.

Women, minorities and queer folk thank you for sacrificing their lives and safeties so you can have your ego bonfire

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Alright, best site for watching the primary results as they come in?

 

[kirblar]

"No abortions, even in the case of rape" is not going to play well with centrists with Supreme Court seats on the line.

Rubio won't stand up to the slightest bit of pressure. He's an inexperienced spaz.

The leading GOP candidates all being extremists has been completely obscured by the crazy primary.

 

[Suikoguy]

This worries me for the GE. Do we know how numbers for primaries translate to the GE? I'm hoping for a lot of interest from the democratic base in November so I hope this isn't a precursor.

It's only a part of the whole picture. The Republican side is far more fractured then the Dem side this election.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Man, I don't understand why Bernie is going through the touch Democratic nomination route. He could've easily ran as an Independent and wouldn't have had to go through this and still have gotten votes. Am I missing something here?

Running as an Independent in the general would basically ensure a Republican becomes President and would have completely alienated the Democratic party. Sanders got in the race to get his message out and has managed to strongly influence the race.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Christ, almost 75% of Republicans in SC want to ban all Muslims. They do know, even if Trump was President, he can't do that, right?

 

[massivekettle]

Obama is EXACTLY as popular as Reagan was at this point in both their terms.

Republican revisionist history has convinced a lot of people that Reagan was more popular than he actually was.

Reagan's ratings reached 60% at the end of his last term. Obama, depending on the source, is barely hitting 50%.

 

[Touchdown]

Christ, almost 75% of Republicans in SC want to ban all Muslims. They do know, even if Trump was President, he can't do that, right?

I really think they think he can. It's scary.

 

[Black Republican]

The wife of Republican presidential hopeful Ted Cruz sat on the board of a group that unanimously voted to support a 2014 Houston ballot measure designed to offer protections to LGBT individuals, according to BuzzFeed News.

i know she didnt vote, but Heidi Cruz has a good heart if she really was against this bullshit but the campaign is just shutting her up about it

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...at-on-board-that-backed-houston-bathroom-bill

 

[Downhome]

What is the link to watch returns in the various counties here in SC?

 

[Blader]

Not a whole lot was pulled by him. The populace changed for LGBT and forced the issue of change upon the Supreme Court. He himself had to shift because Biden opened his mouth on public TV.

I understand your fears and I deeply apologize, but I'm tired of our generation being completely fucked over because the previous generation shorted us for their brief prosperity. I'm not going to keep struggling for another 20 years in hopes that it'll get better.

At this point it's more prudent for things to just collapse with people being so pissed that they actually vote in midterm elections and throw out the Republicans than to go through another four years of bullshit stagnant gridlock and voter apathy where corporations continue to fuck us over.

Obama has done a lot more good than just advancing the cause of LGBT rights on a national stage. And frankly, if your outlook is to just let things collapse because fuck it, then you need to re-think your priorities.

 

[The Lamonster]

Not a whole lot was pulled by him. The populace changed for LGBT and forced the issue of change upon the Supreme Court. He himself had to shift because Biden opened his mouth on public TV.

I understand your fears and I deeply apologize, but I'm tired of our generation being completely fucked over because the previous generation shorted us for their brief prosperity. I'm not going to keep struggling for another 20 years in hopes that it'll get better.

At this point it's more prudent for things to just collapse with people being so pissed that they actually vote in midterm elections and throw out the Republicans than to go through another four years of bullshit stagnant gridlock and voter apathy where corporations continue to fuck us over.

Dude...how old are you? Do you have any empathy for the minorities that would get screwed if the GOP won?

 

[RPGCrazied]

I really think they think he can. It's scary.

But he can't. It wouldn't pass through congress.

 

[Miles X]

Christ, almost 75% of Republicans in SC want to ban all Muslims. They do know, even if Trump was President, he can't do that, right?

You don't know that that's the reason they're voting for Trump, it might mean they don't care, but it might not mean they specifically want it.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Here you go. Its annoyingly vague, but is what happens every time a movement liberal gets to the general (see McGovern and Mondale).

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/berned-up

The Mondale and Mcgovern lefts in their time are nowhere near the same as the modern left in any shape or form, and its ridiculous to even claim such a thing and act like it would lead to a Bernie Sanders defeat in the general(it would not)

The working poor, and the unions were against Mcogovern for example, and had a lot of racists, bible thumpers and contained therein, which fought against the largely antiwar leftist movement.

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/01/the...rs_isnt_the_second_coming_of_george_mcgovern/

www.salon.com/2016/02/01/the_electa...rs_isnt_the_second_coming_of_george_mcgovern/

 

[kirblar]

Not a whole lot was pulled by him. The populace changed for LGBT and forced the issue of change upon the Supreme Court. He himself had to shift because Biden opened his mouth on public TV.

I understand your fears and I deeply apologize, but I'm tired of our generation being completely fucked over because the previous generation shorted us for their brief prosperity. I'm not going to keep struggling for another 20 years in hopes that it'll get better.

At this point it's more prudent for things to just collapse with people being so pissed that they actually vote in midterm elections and throw out the Republicans than to go through another four years of bullshit stagnant gridlock and voter apathy where corporations continue to fuck us over.

The administration was refusing to defend problem laws in court and giving as much implicit support as they could. That was important in making this happen.

Obama got to appoint 2 justices to keep the 5/4 split on gay rights intact on the Supreme Court. That was critical to making this happen.

Letting a hyper-conservative majority emerge on the court is disastrous not just for these issues, but for countless others.

The stagnant gridlock isn't because of "policians from the '90s" - its due to the gerrymandering/lackluster Dem turnout/voter surpression/polarization leading the GOP to get midterm gains (outside of Obama's wave election) and subsequently refuse to do ANYTHING that could be seen as supporting him (because they're scared of being primaried from the right.)

I'm not convinced that we'll get incremental progress with Hillary, unlike Obama. That's just how I feel, sorry.

Your feelings are deceiving you. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/how-hillary-clinton-won-harlem.html

You're also describing the reason Obama got a backlash election in 2010 when the economy didn't magically recover 2 years after the biggest crash in modern history.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Lol the Republicans hopping and praying the Bernie wins the nomination speaks volumes.

Yep, they want Bernie to win this. So obvious on Fox News. He's an easy target for them.

How many times are you going to repeat this? Rubio is a child with no accomplishments and hard right positions. Not buying it.

Rubio also will be the one with multiple republican billionaires behind him like the Koch brothers dumping huge amounts of money into his campaign flooding the air waves with ads. He can also take away hispanic voters in the general, despite his immigration claims right now. He also is very charismatic, good, and a somewhat good looking guy. Nikki Haley is also well spoken, good looking, young, and would take alot of the women voters with her.

 

[GK86]

Ugh, Bernie lost. He made it close though.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Christ, almost 75% of Republicans in SC want to ban all Muslims. They do know, even if Trump was President, he can't do that, right?

These people dont even know what a muslim is. They think muslim means middle eastern.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

At this point it's more prudent for things to just collapse with people being so pissed that they actually vote in midterm elections and throw out the Republicans than to go through another four years of bullshit stagnant gridlock and voter apathy where corporations continue to fuck us over.

That's basically what happened in 2008 / 9 and while it did get Obama into office, people were so upset they turned around and gave the Republicans control of everything else in 2010. Or look at 9/11. Instead of blaming Bush for what happened they rallied around the flag and it got him re-elected. You can't assume that a crash is going to lead to the policies you want, and in the meantime millions of people suffer through it.

 

[Trident]

This whole notion that I have to vote for a lesser evil every four years has become tiresome and I'm just done with it.

Do you not realize that the next President will likely get to nominate 2-3 Supreme Court Justices, which will largely shape the future of our country for the next 30 or so years? Whether or not Presidents can accomplish much, the Justices they appoint can and very often do.

 

[Touchdown]

But he can't. It wouldn't pass through congress.

Yes of course but they think it could.