Shamrock7r
Member
Amy Adams if 41. I think she is 7 or 8 years older than Cavil
Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
- Thread starter N7Commander95
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Amy Adams if 41. I think she is 7 or 8 years older than Cavil
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I would just like to apologize beforehand. If you read the following review, and feel that my critique is in anyway cheapened by what you consider hyperbole, then the only explanation that I can give is that I am a very passionate individual, and this is just the way I express myself.
THAT
BEING
SAID
There's a Maya Angelou quote that I would like to bring up. "Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns it all clean."
That's what I hope to do today NeoGaf. To use this public forum as an outlet for my anger. In doing so, I hope to cleanse myself of all this, to regain some measure of power over this unpleasant experience. The biggest regret I have in all this? That I am not a good enough writer to give everything I have to say the voice it deserves.
FUCK THIS MOVIE
What an absolute fucking disaster of a film. What an infuriating assault on both the sense and the senses and sensibility in general. Zack Snyder was handed the fire of creation, and has chosen to use it to burn the wheat fields down. I hesitate to call this a train wreck, because that implies there was some moment in time when this disaster was on the proverbial "right track". I'm not sure if I will even write a version of this review that includes spoilers, because I don't think I can be bothered to write a scene by scene break-down of this ENTIRE FUCKING MOVIE.
This isn't a film. This is Zack Snyder and company taking "The Dark Knight Rises" and another story that would be too spoiler-filled to name, stripping them of the context that made them important, slathered them in ultra-macho bullshit, and created some sort of unholy Frankenstein's monster that has captured me and is ordering me to help it reproduce, to justify its existence. And like Victor Frankenstein himself, I am horrified at the implications that may bring.
But you've heard enough of my opinions right? How about a film breakdown? That's what you want right?
This movie is a mess, it seems to want to rebel against the very notion of an establishing shot. We are dropped into scene after scene after scene after scene, with the flimsiest of narrative tissue to connect them. Scenes are scattered next to each other with no rhyme or reason. Each individual scene devolves into a very specific plot point, a sequence of audio-visual data, unrelated to the one before it, but without the strength to carry it on its own. The film cuts to black so often it feels like the work of an absolute rank amateur. And the dream sequences you may have heard about? They are illogical, intrusive, and laughable in their self-seriousness. Character agency? Drama? What's that? Why include those when you can hand wave everything with pure coincidence? I will not suffer any criticism of superhero film world-building without using this as rock bottom. If these are what passes as "easter eggs", then they are rotten to the core, and they are being flung straight at my face. It's so afraid to let a scene breath that it has to flash to an earlier scene to emphasize the point like an episode of CSI.
I don't know who to blame for this script. No one has an actual, believable conversation. All they do is spout big important ideas that I'm sure the screenwriter felt very proud in including. If Nolan's Batman films approached the genre with the depth of a lake, this film is as shallow as a murky puddle.
Let's get into our characters shall we? This film doesn't have the fucking time to flesh ANYONE out. First there's Batman, played by Ben Affleck. You may have heard praise for his portrayal of Batman and you know what? It was serviceable. Perfectly Fine. A handsome face to put in the cowl and nothing more. You know what is terrible about Affleck's Batman? That he is the vehicle for all of the films idiotic overuse of dream sequences. Have you felt worried about any rumors that Batman kills in this movie? He does, and the film treats that as something that is super awesome. He's not intelligent in the slightest, Alfred picks up most of the slack Jeremy Iron's Alfred? A decent job, even if his main job is delivering almost obligatory quotes from "The Dark Knight Returns".
Henry Cavill's Superman? Somehow even worse than his last outing. It's kind of ironic that his turn as Superman evokes the same feeling of the Golem of Jewish folklore, because he is a fucking BORE. If Man of Steel was a Superman film deathly afraid of showing Superman not fighting, then this movie is petrified of showing Superman doing ANYTHING competent, in the fear that the audience will see him as all powerful and untouchable. As such, Cavill's turn as Superman includes him looking pensive all of the time, eyebrows furrowed, and then occasionally looking to the left (or his right, whatever.)
Before I get to Wonder Woman, I just want to include this weird hyper-macho attitude that this film has. Hey ladies? Excited to see Wonder Woman? This film is the equivalent of that guy at the gym, who is all too happy to let you work in only to do bicep curls in front of you, darting his eyes occasionally to make sure you're watching. Every time Affleck does something Bruce Wayne related, it is with the caveat that he must be drowning in pussy. He knows Russian because (according to him), he fucked a Russian ballerina. After one of Bruce's most nonsensical of dream sequences, he wakes up with a naked woman next to him, who never wakes up. The rest of the supporting female cast is really just there to be taken hostage. Get Lois Lane in the Justice League, because apparently she has the power of teleportation and omnipresence.
Gadot's Wonder Woman is literally Anne Hathaway's Catwoman redux. A shoehorned Justice League tie-in with an obnoxious electric guitar soundtrack. All of her scenes could have and should have been excised completely.
Eisenberg's Luthor was not a performance. It was a series of mannerisms. The perfect foil to Superman has been reduced to wild gesticulations and squeaks. He's barely even a character, just a plot device. And in all the stupid bullshit included in this movie.
The action scenes? There are four. One is a Batmobile chase, composed almost entirely of CGI and lacking any of the narrative flourish of Nolan's tumbler segments. The titular fight? A nuisance to the film, just another scene. Instead of the culmination of two ideologies clashing together it has instead been reduced to a nonsensical gambit by Lex. It's maybe 8 minutes max of Batman doing slow martial arts moves to a kryptonite weakened Superman, who's only moments of strength have him acting like a roaring gorilla. And the climax is every bit as insipid and stupid as you might have heard. A throwaway piece of trivia blown into laughably operatic over importance. The Batman fight is fine, but it looks cool for the sake of being cool. It is stuffed into the narrative at the worst time. And the final fight against Doomsday? An excuse for Snyder to have his cake and eat it too, having large scale destruction with only the most obligatory mention that there are no civilians, to excuse the fact that we are watching rubber CGI models get punched back, fly back towards Doomsday, then get punched back. AT the end, no one in the theater cheered. They were shuffling in their seats, waiting to get out.
Fuck this movie. I despised every single second of it. I have never felt more powerless watching a movie then I was when this movie teased the Justice League. It felt like it was taunting me over the fact that it held the future of these characters. If you have any reservations about this film, then I assure there is no reason to see it anytime soon. Or do, I don't know you, do what you want with your money. I hated this movie. Every second of it.
TLDR: I didn't care for it.
One last thing.
This shot?
Fuck you. You didn't earn it.
THAT
BEING
SAID
There's a Maya Angelou quote that I would like to bring up. "Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns it all clean."
That's what I hope to do today NeoGaf. To use this public forum as an outlet for my anger. In doing so, I hope to cleanse myself of all this, to regain some measure of power over this unpleasant experience. The biggest regret I have in all this? That I am not a good enough writer to give everything I have to say the voice it deserves.
FUCK THIS MOVIE
What an absolute fucking disaster of a film. What an infuriating assault on both the sense and the senses and sensibility in general. Zack Snyder was handed the fire of creation, and has chosen to use it to burn the wheat fields down. I hesitate to call this a train wreck, because that implies there was some moment in time when this disaster was on the proverbial "right track". I'm not sure if I will even write a version of this review that includes spoilers, because I don't think I can be bothered to write a scene by scene break-down of this ENTIRE FUCKING MOVIE.
This isn't a film. This is Zack Snyder and company taking "The Dark Knight Rises" and another story that would be too spoiler-filled to name, stripping them of the context that made them important, slathered them in ultra-macho bullshit, and created some sort of unholy Frankenstein's monster that has captured me and is ordering me to help it reproduce, to justify its existence. And like Victor Frankenstein himself, I am horrified at the implications that may bring.
But you've heard enough of my opinions right? How about a film breakdown? That's what you want right?
This movie is a mess, it seems to want to rebel against the very notion of an establishing shot. We are dropped into scene after scene after scene after scene, with the flimsiest of narrative tissue to connect them. Scenes are scattered next to each other with no rhyme or reason. Each individual scene devolves into a very specific plot point, a sequence of audio-visual data, unrelated to the one before it, but without the strength to carry it on its own. The film cuts to black so often it feels like the work of an absolute rank amateur. And the dream sequences you may have heard about? They are illogical, intrusive, and laughable in their self-seriousness. Character agency? Drama? What's that? Why include those when you can hand wave everything with pure coincidence? I will not suffer any criticism of superhero film world-building without using this as rock bottom. If these are what passes as "easter eggs", then they are rotten to the core, and they are being flung straight at my face. It's so afraid to let a scene breath that it has to flash to an earlier scene to emphasize the point like an episode of CSI.
I don't know who to blame for this script. No one has an actual, believable conversation. All they do is spout big important ideas that I'm sure the screenwriter felt very proud in including. If Nolan's Batman films approached the genre with the depth of a lake, this film is as shallow as a murky puddle.
Let's get into our characters shall we? This film doesn't have the fucking time to flesh ANYONE out. First there's Batman, played by Ben Affleck. You may have heard praise for his portrayal of Batman and you know what? It was serviceable. Perfectly Fine. A handsome face to put in the cowl and nothing more. You know what is terrible about Affleck's Batman? That he is the vehicle for all of the films idiotic overuse of dream sequences. Have you felt worried about any rumors that Batman kills in this movie? He does, and the film treats that as something that is super awesome. He's not intelligent in the slightest, Alfred picks up most of the slack Jeremy Iron's Alfred? A decent job, even if his main job is delivering almost obligatory quotes from "The Dark Knight Returns".
Henry Cavill's Superman? Somehow even worse than his last outing. It's kind of ironic that his turn as Superman evokes the same feeling of the Golem of Jewish folklore, because he is a fucking BORE. If Man of Steel was a Superman film deathly afraid of showing Superman not fighting, then this movie is petrified of showing Superman doing ANYTHING competent, in the fear that the audience will see him as all powerful and untouchable. As such, Cavill's turn as Superman includes him looking pensive all of the time, eyebrows furrowed, and then occasionally looking to the left (or his right, whatever.)
Before I get to Wonder Woman, I just want to include this weird hyper-macho attitude that this film has. Hey ladies? Excited to see Wonder Woman? This film is the equivalent of that guy at the gym, who is all too happy to let you work in only to do bicep curls in front of you, darting his eyes occasionally to make sure you're watching. Every time Affleck does something Bruce Wayne related, it is with the caveat that he must be drowning in pussy. He knows Russian because (according to him), he fucked a Russian ballerina. After one of Bruce's most nonsensical of dream sequences, he wakes up with a naked woman next to him, who never wakes up. The rest of the supporting female cast is really just there to be taken hostage. Get Lois Lane in the Justice League, because apparently she has the power of teleportation and omnipresence.
Gadot's Wonder Woman is literally Anne Hathaway's Catwoman redux. A shoehorned Justice League tie-in with an obnoxious electric guitar soundtrack. All of her scenes could have and should have been excised completely.
Eisenberg's Luthor was not a performance. It was a series of mannerisms. The perfect foil to Superman has been reduced to wild gesticulations and squeaks. He's barely even a character, just a plot device. And in all the stupid bullshit included in this movie.
The action scenes? There are four. One is a Batmobile chase, composed almost entirely of CGI and lacking any of the narrative flourish of Nolan's tumbler segments. The titular fight? A nuisance to the film, just another scene. Instead of the culmination of two ideologies clashing together it has instead been reduced to a nonsensical gambit by Lex. It's maybe 8 minutes max of Batman doing slow martial arts moves to a kryptonite weakened Superman, who's only moments of strength have him acting like a roaring gorilla. And the climax is every bit as insipid and stupid as you might have heard. A throwaway piece of trivia blown into laughably operatic over importance. The Batman fight is fine, but it looks cool for the sake of being cool. It is stuffed into the narrative at the worst time. And the final fight against Doomsday? An excuse for Snyder to have his cake and eat it too, having large scale destruction with only the most obligatory mention that there are no civilians, to excuse the fact that we are watching rubber CGI models get punched back, fly back towards Doomsday, then get punched back. AT the end, no one in the theater cheered. They were shuffling in their seats, waiting to get out.
Fuck this movie. I despised every single second of it. I have never felt more powerless watching a movie then I was when this movie teased the Justice League. It felt like it was taunting me over the fact that it held the future of these characters. If you have any reservations about this film, then I assure there is no reason to see it anytime soon. Or do, I don't know you, do what you want with your money. I hated this movie. Every second of it.
TLDR: I didn't care for it.
One last thing.
This shot?
Fuck you. You didn't earn it.
exmachina64
Banned
It wasn't part of a dream sequence, it was part of Bruce's flashback. The horse was part of a mounted patrol and lost its police officer.
Amy Adams is 41 (she was 38 when Man of Steel was released); Henry Cavill is 32 (he was 30). Her casting was notable for an "older" actress, but it was at odds with how young they cast Clark. Cavill and Eisenberg are the same age.
Edit: Gadot is 30 and Affleck is 43. It's going to be harder for Gadot because her character is supposed to be eternally youthful and ageless.
Finaika
Member
I've always wondered about this for the longest time too.
This movie is actually the first to address it.
exmachina64
Banned
I went in with expectations of him killing everyone from the Snyder interview and what people on GAF were saying, but outside of the Knightmare, the only death I counted was the lead kidnapper with the flamethrower (and I thought someone was standing next to him).
What did he mean by this?
Member
Manslaughter, not murder. His car did it with or without his knowledge. But if he picked up that gun pulled the trigger, instead of pushing a button that pulls the trigger, now that's crossing the line!
You see, this Batman is older, aged, more wurll-weary, brutal, cruel...
Finaika
Member
Finaika
Member
TheChewyWaffles
Member
You're absolutely kidding right?
AlfredX1990
Banned
My mom has the same name, am I Batman's and Superman's best friend yet?
jack_package_200
Banned
I will say I would have climbed into that bathtub too.
On my second viewing I counted. 8 kills. A couple I just assumed were deaths.
Then I laughed when John Schnepp said it was no less than 100.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I'm still of the belief that there was a Superman movie made 5 or so years ago with Eisenberg as Lex that has never been released, and that they just edited him into this film. Because he didn't fit the movie at all.
MaulerX
Member
You're damn right about that. In fact, the way they did it suggests that even if Batman would have impaled Superman at the end of their fight, Superman would not have died anyway. Which ultimately means their fight was pointless.
I want to add something to this. This is a very minor piece of the film, but the dialogue kept bringing it up.
It framed any kind of femininity as a bad thing. When that terrorist guy introduced himself to Lois, he sneered he didn't expect to be talking to a woman. Lois, not to be put down, says "I'm not a woman, I'm a journalist." I swear there is atleast one other incident like this, but I can't remember it.
Conversely, 'being a man' is treated as a good thing. I'm fuzzy on how much this is exactly mentioned, but I remember Batman putting down Superman as not being a real man atleast once in their confrontation and I am pretty sure it comes up more than once. Like you said, it's a very machismo laden film, and having Bruce wake up to that woman whose face we never even see is like Snyder going "LOOK, HE GETS PUSSY, ISN"T HE FUCKING AWESOME?!" That shit is just really embarassing.
On top of everything else it does wrong, I'm sure someone will point this out in a feminist critique of the movie, or maybe I'm just projecting here, but as of right now, this was just this really weird ultra-macho worship to it that felt a bit uncomfortable to me.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
1. The "you're not a man" dialogue has nothing to do with being a man, and everything to do with Supes being an alien/God, and saying "you're not a human" isn't really the best word choice
2. Part of Bruce Wayne is that he's shallow when it comes to women. He can't commit to anyone, and seeing the billionaire playboy aspect even in the slightest was cool because it was never really touched upon before. Dudes full of himself.
DedalusJoyce
Member
wow, thanks, I just got back and this is the first thing i read after seeing it and this sums up my thoughts on this shitfest. This is not a film, I walked out of the theater on movies that were far more competent than this POS. I want to actively dissuade people from seeing this now.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Guess vehicle kills don't count.
Batmobile (and it's tire) took out some baddies and the Batwing put a few baddies and trucks "to sleep" [with fire]
TheSchwab_7
Member
What was the point of making Doomsday? What was Lex's end game there? I mean let's say that Doomsday straight up destroys Superman, Batman, and Wonderwoman. Then what? Doomsday then destroys LexCorp and the rest of the world?
I hated Batman in this movie. I haven't read the comics or anything, but my god man Superman saved your ass from Zod in the first movie. For the world's greatest detective, he was a complete idiot and wouldn't listen to anyone and just went nuts.
I felt bad for Superman, and I wish they would have just made Man of Steel 2. I like the Superman character in Man of Steel and in this movie, but it just feels so rushed and there wasn't enough time to develop his character. Spend some more time developing his mourning of his dad, his love for Lois and his mom while dealing with the questions of should he answer to anyone and stuff.
Wonder Woman was pretty cool, wish they would have spent more time making me give a crap about her character though. Guess we will see in her movie.
I hated Batman in this movie. I haven't read the comics or anything, but my god man Superman saved your ass from Zod in the first movie. For the world's greatest detective, he was a complete idiot and wouldn't listen to anyone and just went nuts.
I felt bad for Superman, and I wish they would have just made Man of Steel 2. I like the Superman character in Man of Steel and in this movie, but it just feels so rushed and there wasn't enough time to develop his character. Spend some more time developing his mourning of his dad, his love for Lois and his mom while dealing with the questions of should he answer to anyone and stuff.
Wonder Woman was pretty cool, wish they would have spent more time making me give a crap about her character though. Guess we will see in her movie.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
This is just ignorance. Part of Bruce Wayne's cover is that he's just a partying playboy looking out only for himself. Did you not see this in the Nolan trilogy either?
vvvv what??? He leaves with entire goddamn Russian ballerina team on a yacht in the TDK. He had women on both arms waking into a restaurant at the beginning of the same film. This is NOT a Snyder thing, whatever else was wrong with the film.
Yeah, exactly. There are plenty of lines that basically place the worth of a character by their perceived masculinity. Glad I'm not just going crazy here.
1. Given the ultramachoism that is going on, there is no reason it can't mean both. Keep in mind, plenty of people say shit like "Be a man" without actually meaning to be sexist or even realizing they are, because it's just accepted as a powerfully evocative phrase.
2. Part of Snyder's Bruce Wayne? Yeah, sure, definitely. Not part of Bruce Wayne in general. Just look at Nolan's. All he wants is a companion throughout the films, he just can't commit in the first and second because Rachel doesn't want him and in the third, what turns him around is finding someone he can share his life with. He dates supermodels because he wants to keep up the act, but he doesn't actually care about the sex with random women part of his life, and there are plenty of comics that show he avoids it when possible.
Who was he covering for in his mansion? In the nolan trilogy, he specifically did it in very public events. With the woman in BvS, it looked like it was just a regular night for him.
And lets be clear here. If bruce just wants some nooky, that's a healthy thing. Not every batman has to be disinterested in sex unless it's necessary or with his "one true love". It's just the placement of it is weird, and it communciates a different message than I think the director intended. Or maybe it's the exact message snyder wanted, mostly because of the context of the rest of the film being untra macho.
Correction: he leaves Alfred with a russian ballerina team. He's seen hanging out with them, but not actually romancing them or oogling them or even giving the implication that he's interested in them. He probably did have sex with some of them, but, again, his utter disinterest in them when we actually see them with him implies to me that he just does it as part of his cover.
peaceiscloser
Member
Luthor as a Nietzsche fanboy and neckbeard atheist was pretty bad, IMO.
Schnozberry
Member
I agreed with most of your take except about Eisenberg. A younger, unhinged Luthor that was more profoundly affected by the mental and physical abuse of his father made sense in the context of the way Snyder was telling this story. Batman's PTSD from Murder Alley was explored heavily, as was Superman's, who was still carrying the burden of allowing himself to hold on to his father's myopic world view long after it had caused his death. Luthor, on the other hand, had become obsessed with destroying Superman, because much like Batman his psychosis had led him to identify Superman as a metaphor for everything he hated. Where Batman finally snapped out of it when he recognized Superman's humanity, Lex went over the edge when the Kryptonian ship explained to him how much power existed elsewhere in the Galaxy.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
This is a movie I can't wait to see again, because now that the hype is out of the way, and I know what I like/dislike, it'll be a far smoother watch. I'll keep all of that in mind. See all you wrote makes a lot of sense to me.
I caught a showing earlier tonight. I can see where all the criticism is coming from, but I think going in with the expectation of a shit show helped a bit. I didn't hate it. It was too long, and a number of scenes had no reason to be there, but I liked some aspects of the film.
Doomsday was garbage though. I wish movies would come up with CGI monsters that didn't look like variations of the cave troll from LOTR.
Doomsday was garbage though. I wish movies would come up with CGI monsters that didn't look like variations of the cave troll from LOTR.
broncobuster
Banned
My read on the woman in his bed is just about the opposite or yours. The scene is immediately followed by Alfred scolding Bruce for his boozing. Both, among other signs, convey Bruce as a hollow guy. It's in tow with his aggression as Batman. I'll admit, Snyder tries to make it cool. But those actions, his brandings, are showing there's something wrong with Bruce. The film needed to lean harder into it.
Okay, take his first appearance. The people he saved are afraid of him. It's played like he's a monster in a horror film. I've seen others comment that he's cool there. But I don't believe that's the message.
thecouncil
Banned
Can anyone explain to me what Wonder Woman did in this movie, beyond appearing in costume, that makes people suggest she was so great?
Or is it really just that she held a lasso around Doomsday at one point?
If she hadn't appeared in costume, I wouldn't have known who that person was supposed to be, honestly.
Or is it really just that she held a lasso around Doomsday at one point?
If she hadn't appeared in costume, I wouldn't have known who that person was supposed to be, honestly.
Dreams-Visions
Member
day 2 and this movie is still fuckin awesome.
you mean other than her damn near single-handedly bodying Doomsday? Laughing off his attacks? Showing her physical strength eclipsing just about everyone else's by restraining him? Yea, I can't think of anything.
you mean other than her damn near single-handedly bodying Doomsday? Laughing off his attacks? Showing her physical strength eclipsing just about everyone else's by restraining him? Yea, I can't think of anything.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Bruce Wayne sleeps with women?! The travesty! Your critique is very hilarious.
The movie is made by Zack Snyder, this was par for the course.
Both Martha Kent and Lois Lane are damsels in distress throughout the entire movie.
Wonder Woman looked like she enjoyed the beat down (one of the few characters who actually grinned and it was WW getting beat up). Mercy got blown up for being a loyal lap dog of Lex as did Holly Hunter.
Not a single fuck was given writing wise for women in BvS.
And yeah the movie was macho as hell. From Batman's work out Montage to his talk to Superman about what it means to be a man. It was all very 90-esque.
The Bruce Wayne sleeping with women isn't a big deal because that's how he has always been portrayed.
You should be glad this wasn't rated R otherwise there would've been a rape scene in it too.
Keep in mind that this isn't a criticism of bruce the character, but how the film depicts women in general. The distinction I'm making between Nolan's portrayal and Snyder's is that Nolan had Bruce be a playboy, but they it felt less exploitative because it's the women that really dragged bruce at their happy fun time adventures. The girls in Begins jumped into the hotel bath, the russian women were enjoying the cruise, etc. Bruce cooperated with them, but I got the idea of some sense of agency in their activities with him.
With Snyder's Batman, we see a woman's body, we don't even see her face, she's just laying there to show that Bruce himself had sexual relations with a woman. Forget about what this says about Bruce, that's not important here. Think about how this depicts the woman herself, because you can't say it's depicting her character in any way, her body is being used to convey a message (good or bad) about bruce. So the critcism I'm making isn't "Bruce having sex with a women is questionable", it's "The way the film depicts the woman here is questionable".
And you know, that might have been fine, if not for every other part of the movie depicting women. Batman's introduction is saving a bunch of sex slaves. So you open your scene depicting women as victims, and they aren't really doing anything except trembling with fear. One of the first scenes with Lois (I was going to say first scene, but then I remembered the actual first scene is her being rescued by superman from the terrorist guys) is depicting her in a bath playing "keep the naught bits off camera" before her concerns are quelled by Superman going down to have sex with her. Is there really NO other way that conversation could have possibly taken place? Does her being naked inform us of anything we couldn't find out otherwise in any way? And what is Lois' role in the film? To be rescued. Once from Lex Luthor as a pawn to get Superman's attention. And then when she actually tries to take an active role in the fight against Doomsday, instead of playing a minor but critical role, she fails and Superman has to go down to save her again. Same thing with Martha. Her only two scenes is to soothe Superman's insecurities, and then be captured so she has to be rescued.
And then there's the aforementioned dialogue that glorifies 'being a man' and has women deny that their women to give them some authority.
On it's own, individually, maybe these wouldn't be too bad. But combined, they form a really weird atmosphere.
It's like you play Telephone with every post you read, and then reply to whatever you get by the 20th person.
Shit, yeah, I forgot about Mercy. What was the point of including her if he was just going to kill her off. But atleast Snyder is unisex in that aspect. He also included Jimmy Olson just to kill him off.
But yeah, I don't particularly care for overly macho movies. We're in an era were I believe we should leave that shit dead and buried.
The sick thing is, you're probably not even wrong. Can't wait for that R rated Bluray edition.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
day 2 and this movie is still fuckin awesome.
you mean other than her damn near single-handedly bodying Doomsday? Laughing off his attacks? Showing her physical strength eclipsing just about everyone else's by restraining him? Yea, I can't think of anything.
How did she "body" Doomsday? None of her attacks really do much damage. Her biggest contributions are giving Doomsday the means to kill Superman and hold him still for a second.
WW's main contribution to the fight was saving Batman and holding down Doomsday long enough for Superman to impale him. She didn't really body Doomsday, instead she was getting smacked around but she was still integral in taking out Doomsday who at one stage looked unstoppable. She played her role.
Yeah she caused Doomsday to grow that spike which also impaled Superman but let's be real here.. Superman isn't dead.
Yeah she caused Doomsday to grow that spike which also impaled Superman but let's be real here.. Superman isn't dead.
Dreams-Visions
Member
You're right. She didn't fight him single-handedly for about 5 minutes, get in some nice slashes causing screams of agony from Doomsday (something nobody else achieved outside of Batman's spear) or anything. In 5 minutes of combat, she proved herself Superman's equal if not superior. The status that took Superman 2 movies to earn she snatched in 5 minutes. In doing so, she also established that she could probably body Superman and earned "secret OP weapon" status.
But you're right. She did nothing at all. Carry on. You guys are being silly on purpose so I'll leave you to your own devices.
thecouncil
Banned
day 2 and this movie is still fuckin awesome.
you mean other than her damn near single-handedly bodying Doomsday? Laughing off his attacks? Showing her physical strength eclipsing just about everyone else's by restraining him? Yea, I can't think of anything.
Ok, so it WAS just the costume then.
I liked how it seemed Batman was going to get blasted until she dropped down, and the music amped up for her showing she has arrived.
I also enjoyed her showing possibly a sense of enjoyment? Like she knew that she couldn't get hurt, and so was finding it amusing.
I think it seemed the most joyous and exciting moment in the whole picture. Her smiling, almost laughing, and the music just made it a great standout moment against all of the previous darkness.that had come before. Then I guess Batman and Superman not really understanding who she was but seeming that she had came to help added to the greatness of the moment.
Though it was extra special for me just as I was interested in Wonder Woman before this film so I was just so hanging for her big reveal. Still from others who didn't have much interest in her before seemed to enjoy her big moment as well.
Ok, that I am not a fan of though. Well not that it didn't make an appearance but I do not like the invisible plane. Hope it isn't in the films. It just makes cringe and glad it's mostly in the past just like the groovy Adamn West Batman. If she needs to fly somewhere, fly by her own ability.
Wonder woman was mostly the exception that proved the rule as far as female depictions went. And she wasn't around long enough to suffer from the pitfalls of Snyder's awful directing.
Her role was minor, and it's a blessing it is.
As far as I'm concerned, Wonder Woman is the ONLY future DC movie that has a shot of being decent.
Her role was minor, and it's a blessing it is.
As far as I'm concerned, Wonder Woman is the ONLY future DC movie that has a shot of being decent.
roflwaffles
Member
She emoted and didn't look sad, which is more than you can say about anything else in the movie.
exmachina64
Banned
Honestly, I thought he wasn't killing the people in the vehicles.
It goes against her character to be traveling in visible planes. Might as well have Batman view snuff films in his spare time as a hobby if we're gonna live in this chaotic world. It took me out of the whole movie.
I'm joking. No one wants the plane.
By the way, in the dream within Batman's dream...was that cosmic treadmill Flash?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Solo Batman movie by Ben Affleck?
She did the best of the three by far, but I wouldn't say she bodied Doomsday. Cutting off the arm is inconsistent with the rest of the film's logic and it's implied that WW would have lost a one on one fight.
she did smirk that one time
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Wonder Woman would have eventually been ripped apart by Doomsday. This isn't even a contest, he too OP unless magic space rock stabs him.
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