Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son

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The Boat said:
I have to wonder if people actually pay attention to the movie when they're watching it, the amount of stuff that people say are plot holes that aren't is astounding. I guess that's what happens when mob mentality kicks in. *hides behind shield*
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Nevermind plot holes, I still don't understand the nonsensical sequence of why they had Lois dump the kryptonite spear into the pool(?) for absolutely no reason other than to create the situation where she had to be rescued when retrieving it later.

Henkka said:
But is that, like, somehow implanted by future-Flash? Or was it coincidental? Why would Bruce have visions of possible futures?
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I just assumed the Flash's time traveling antics affected Bruce during that moment and caused him to have the vision. It's a blatant Justice league setup, so I didn't think so hard on it.
 
Caja 117 said:
Because he didnt knew were she was, and had less than an hour to find her?

Im interested anout how much Lex learned about the upcoming danger, and he made it sound that they have been watching and the presence of Superman kept them away.
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My issue is that he is shown finding Lois multiple times within seconds. First, he shows up to save Lois in the opening scene. He was either sitting back watching Jimmy Olson and the village get shot, or he detected something was going on from far away and showed up. Same thing later on when he saves Lois from falling off the building. He either hung out and watched her get kidnapped without doing anything, or he could pinpoint her scream from a distance.

Second, even if this weren't the case. Superman has super speed, super hearing, and xray vision. He's shown appearing around the world saving people with little warning.

Everything happened so quickly, I did miss how Batman was able to find Martha so quickly without those super powers.
 
FunnyBunny said:
Examples would help.

And lack of clarity on some plot points speaks to poor writing, directing, and editing. When large portions of the audience struggle to understand elements of film it's the fault of the filmmakers.
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I know, but honestly, there are so many examples (that I already replied to previously) and so many people hating on it that I would be arguing forever.

I just think there's an incredibly disproportional and unjustified amount of hate towards the movie and that leads to a predisposition to not even try to understand things that honestly are very simple.
 
Firemind said:
He promised Clark he would save his mother and he's running out of time. Do you really think he'd be that naive to let goons casually shoot his plane in that situation? What if they have rocket launchers again? This whole sacred no-kill rule people have is ridiculous.
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No, it's not. It's one of the defining features of the character. Batman has two rules:

1. Don't kill.
2. Don't use a gun.

If he is doing either of those things then you have fucked up his character beyond measure. Even Based God Nolan understood these two basic rules. Batman only "kills" in the Nolan movies when he has absolutely no other choice and even then he would prefer to save them. Remember, the entire ending of TDK is him fighting both the police and the Joker's henchmen and managing to not kill a single one of them. It's brilliant.

Batman doesn't just kill people in BvS because he's backed into a corner facing an impossible choice, he straight up murders people and seems to actually enjoy doing it. He just starts straight up shooting people in the Batmobile and the Batwing, he uses the Batmobile to crash into a car full of thugs, drag the wreck of said car with thugs inside along with him, and then fling said car with thugs into another car killing everyone inside both vehicles.

THAT IS NOT BATMAN.

And, let me just say this. In Batman Beyond, Batman retires after being forced to use a gun to scare away some punks. And, even in Batman Begins he looks at the revolver he was going to use with disgust before throwing it in the river and running away.
 
Alandrus Sun said:
No, it's not. It's one of the defining features of the character. Batman has two rules:

1. Don't kill.
2. Don't use a gun.

If he is doing either of those things then you have fucked up his character beyond measure. Even Based God Nolan understood these two basic rules. Batman only "kills" in the Nolan movies when he has absolutely no other choice and even then he would prefer to save them. Remember, the entire ending of TDK is him fighting both the police and the Joker's henchmen and managing to not kill a single one of them. It's brilliant.

Batman doesn't just kill people in BvS because he's backed into a corner facing an impossible choice, he straight up murders people and seems to actually enjoy doing it. He just starts straight up shooting people in the Batmobile and the Batwing, he uses the Batmobile to crash into a car full of thugs, drag the wreck of said car with thugs inside along with him, and then fling said car with thugs into another car killing everyone inside both vehicles.

THAT IS NOT BATMAN.

And, let me just say this. In Batman Beyond, Batman retires after being forced to use a gun to scare away some punks. And, even in Batman Begins he looks at the revolver he was going to use with disgust before throwing it in the river and running away.
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Burnett/Dini/Timm have understood Batman the best so far. Mask of the Phantasm remains my favorite theatrical Batman film.
 
Alienous said:
He does it when he isn't sleeping he's smanging models in his glasshouse.

He's Batman when he has time to spare.
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Ein Bear said:
Batman sure does sleep a lot in this film. I wonder how he manages to fight crime by night when he's so sleepy all the time.
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His dreams take less than 15 minutes, meaning he isn't sleeping more than a couple of minutes, in some comic book version Bruce sleeps around 30 minutes every 5 hours, So, I don't see the problem with this.

Henkka said:
It's still a plothole why Superman just assumed Batman would be able to find Martha in a matter of minutes while he went after Lex.
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Because this was his area of expertise and Superman knew it? there are plotholes in the movie, but this isn't one.
 
Razorback PT said:
What a total lack of understanding of how character development works.

So Superman dies, and everything about that falls completely flat. There's no foreshadowing at all to prepare us for the moment, and when it comes they haven't established why a sacrifice is the only choice, so during his lame goodbye speech there's no way you can be invested in the scene, because all you're thinking is, why does he have to die? Can't he just stab him and not die? And haven't we established three seconds ago that he can't be the one doing the stabbing, because he can't even lift the spear without passing out? Oh apparently he can pick it up, and fly. Just give it to wonder women, you don't have to do it yourself. Oh I guess It's too late, you already stabbed him. Good job man, you did it. Let go of the spear now. Just leave. Let go dude. Ok now Doomsday grabbed you and stabbed you. Dumb. Oh you're impaling yourself further into the spike, so you can make the spear penetrate all the way through? Why? You're taking the kryptonite out of his body. You fucking idiot. This is your great sacrifice, you stupid idiot. Jesus christ. I don't believe for a second that you're actually dead. So, just stop pretending and get up now. No, you're really going to just stay dead? Ok so we're at your funeral now, wow I guess you really want to make a point that you're actually dead for real here. Ok 15 minutes of funeral stuff. Guess they're serious about this. Ok now this farce is finally coming to an end... and the dirt moves.... Fuck you.
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giphy.gif
 
ghostwritingduck said:
My issue is that he is shown finding Lois multiple times within seconds. First, he shows up to save Lois in the opening scene. He was either sitting back watching Jimmy Olson and the village get shot, or he detected something was going on from far away and showed up. Same thing later on when he saves Lois from falling off the building. He either hung out and watched her get kidnapped without doing anything, or he could pinpoint her scream from a distance.
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Both those times Lex wanted him to show up and save her. Clark probably heard her name or something.

ghostwritingduck said:
Second, even if this weren't the case. Superman has super speed, super hearing, and xray vision. He's shown appearing around the world saving people with little warning.
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Clark is Superman but he isn't all-powerful. It doesn't require much suspension of disbelief to realize how powerless he is in that situation.

ghostwritingduck said:
Everything happened so quickly, I did miss how Batman was able to find Martha so quickly without those super powers.
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That part was pretty dumb I agree. Basically Alfred shows up and tells Bruce he found the Russian.
 
thecouncil said:
What was that scene about in a museum with Bruce and Diana? She was trying to steal a blade or something? I forget.
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I think she was looking at a blade. I took the subtext to be that she had actually used or seen the original in all the years she had lived, or something like that.
 
JB1981 said:
Man some of you guys really get lost in the weeds ferreting out these plot holes in movies.
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Well yeah, but it's mostly just for kicks at this point. :P

I'm well aware that most movies have plot holes. But good movies hide them well, which BvS fails to do. I was actively taken out of the movie by things not making logical sense.
 
I know Injustice went the same route, but I much prefer Kindom Come's take on Superman's reaction to Lois Lane being killed than the Injustice/BvS scenario.
 
Alienous said:
I think she was looking at a blade. I took the subtext to be that she had actually used or seen the original in all the years she had lived, or something like that.
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I just took it as Batman trying to show off his knowledge to a girl, and then realizing that she knows her shit.
 
Henkka said:
I'm well aware that most movies have plot holes. But good movies hide them well, which BvS fails to do. I was actively taken out of the movie by things not making logical sense.
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Well in a good movie you can ignore the issues if the movie overall is enjoyable. However, I did not really enjoy it so mostly reflecting back I pick apart the plot issues.
It is common thing for humans to do.

I am trying to find positives which is mostly the part where Bruce sees the events of MoS in person, the armor for Batman was neat, and I laughed hard at the courtroom scene. Sad Superman...
 
Henkka said:
Well yeah, but it's mostly just for kicks at this point. :P

I'm well aware that most movies have plot holes. But good movies hide them well, which BvS fails to do. I was actively taken out of the movie by things not making logical sense.
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Yea I just find that a lot of these mega threads tend do this very thing with every new movie. It gets kinda crazy at some point
 
Firemind said:
Both those times Lex wanted him to show up and save her.


Clark is Superman but he isn't all-powerful. It doesn't require much suspension of disbelief to realize how powerless he is in that situation.


That part was pretty dumb I agree. Basically Alfred shows up and tells Bruce he found the Russian.
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Lex may have wanted him to find Lois, but it's not like he called him or anything. Clark is just perceptive enough in these movies to find her. In MOS, he is able to detect government drones following him. The movie didn't even take the effort for her to be held some place where she wouldn't easily be detected.
 
AlteredBeast said:
Wasn't that a part of Bruce's dream?
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That's one of the many reasons why this movie is so shit. Many people have difficulty understanding the dreams and stuffs. The knightmare scene probably leave a lot of movie-goers confused than anything.
 
Houndi101 said:
To be fair Comedians
funeral
was one of the best scenes in Watchmen
(And it even used the same Simon & Garfunkel song as sadfleck)
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That scene is the weirdest thing. The way Snyder shoots it (along with the musical choice) he makes it seem poignant and almost celebratory, as if people are gathering in remembrance of a great person. And then the movie shows the guy beat and almost rape a woman, murder surrendered viet soldiers, and kill a woman that was pregnant with his own child. And it keeps going back to this sequence before each scene. Then the movie goes on to show him break in tears, as if we were meant to feel something for this guy.

I really don't know what's wrong with Snyder.
 
Alienous said:
I think she was looking at a blade. I took the subtext to be that she had actually used or seen the original in all the years she had lived, or something like that.
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She was an antiquities dealer. Of course that's never explained in the film, but it's in her bio in a lot of related merchandise.
 
ghostwritingduck said:
My issue is that he is shown finding Lois multiple times within seconds. First, he shows up to save Lois in the opening scene. He was either sitting back watching Jimmy Olson and the village get shot, or he detected something was going on from far away and showed up. Same thing later on when he saves Lois from falling off the building. He either hung out and watched her get kidnapped without doing anything, or he could pinpoint her scream from a distance.

Second, even if this weren't the case. Superman has super speed, super hearing, and xray vision. He's shown appearing around the world saving people with little warning.

Everything happened so quickly, I did miss how Batman was able to find Martha so quickly without those super powers.
Click to expand...

In any version of Superman, Lois can be on the other side of the planet and Superman will save her in second, is the mot classic things regarding Superman. Lex was smart enough to hide Martha in a way Superman couldn't find her, but he wasn't counting on Batman to look for her.
 
jett said:
That scene is the weirdest thing. The way Snyder shoots it (along with the musical choice) he makes it seem poignant and almost celebratory, as if people are gathering in remembrance of a great person. And then the movie shows the guy beat and almost rape a woman, murder surrendered viet soldiers, and kill a woman that was pregnant with his own child. And it keeps going back to this sequence before each scene. Then the movie goes on to show him break in tears, as if we were meant to feel something for this guy.

I really don't know what's wrong with Snyder.
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To be fair, that's the point. Watchmen is one of those few decent Snyder flicks. However, it's still not great even with the DC because the source material is way too hard to translate into a film. Watchmen would work better as a one season mini-series.
 
KingBroly said:
But as for him dying out of the blue, you're not supposed to expect it. It's supposed to catch you off guard. Superman is built up as this indestructable thing that Batman must kill (and, coincidentally does since he made the Spear). You're supposed to laugh at that idea and go 'nah, they'd never do that' then they do it.
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Yet it's the biggest non-issue ever. His death isn't earned and it's not as though they're going to kill off Superman the 2nd move in, so instead of saying "holy shit he's dead" you're saying "See you in the next movie, Supes" as though nothing really happened and nobody really learned anything.

It was a plot device to instigate the Justice League for Batman and Wonder Woman. That's it. And Superman deserves better than being a f'n plot device.
 
ghostwritingduck said:
My issue is that he is shown finding Lois multiple times within seconds. First, he shows up to save Lois in the opening scene. He was either sitting back watching Jimmy Olson and the village get shot, or he detected something was going on from far away and showed up. Same thing later on when he saves Lois from falling off the building. He either hung out and watched her get kidnapped without doing anything, or he could pinpoint her scream from a distance.

Second, even if this weren't the case. Superman has super speed, super hearing, and xray vision. He's shown appearing around the world saving people with little warning.

Everything happened so quickly, I did miss how Batman was able to find Martha so quickly without those super powers.
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Alfred was tracking the phone that Bruce cloned earlier in the film...I think.
 
People are all about Batman killing. But according to Snyder all it takes is for Lois or his mom to die for Superman to start cutting captured people in half with his laser-vision.

For me, that was the most gross thing in this movie, and I'm not even that much of a Superman fan.
 
jett said:
That scene is the weirdest thing. The way Snyder shoots it (along with the musical choice) he makes it seem poignant and almost celebratory, as if people are gathering in remembrance of a great person.
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I don't think there was anything wrong with that, because that's how he was remembered and idolised; which highlights the contrast with his actual personality.
 
The superman funeral is the most overblown and unnatural scenes I've seen in a film in a long time. The big cannon shell falling down in slow motion was approaching Baz luhrman levels of self indulgence.
 
SeanC said:
Yet it's the biggest non-issue ever. His death isn't earned and it's not as though they're going to kill off Superman the 2nd move in, so instead of saying "holy shit he's dead" you're saying "See you in the next movie, Supes" as though nothing really happened and nobody really learned anything.

It was a plot device to instigate the Justice League for Batman and Wonder Woman. That's it. And Superman deserves better than being a f'n plot device.
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Once again, this movie proves that the team behind the DCEU has no idea what to do with Superman as a character. Everything good about this movie revolves around Batman or Wonder Woman. All the Superman stuff is convoluted and pointless.
 
jett said:
People are all about Batman killing. But according to Snyder all it takes is for Lois or his mom to die for Superman to start cutting captured people in half with his laser-vision.

For me, that was the most gross thing in this movie, and I'm not even that much of a Superman fan.
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Welcome to the Injustice Universe. That whole story is a piece of shit.
 
jett said:
People are all about Batman killing. But according to Snyder all it takes is for Lois or his mom to die for Superman to start cutting captured people in half with his laser-vision.

For me, that was the most gross thing in this movie, and I'm not even that much of a Superman fan.
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Well, Batman was right about him. He was always right!
 
jett said:
People are all about Batman killing. But according to Snyder all it takes is for Lois or his mom to die for Superman to start cutting captured people in half with his laser-vision.

For me, that was the most gross thing in this movie, and I'm not even that much of a Superman fan.
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"She was my world"

Wah, wah.

Snyder just doesn't like Superman, and doesn't understand Batman. Flash tells Bruce that he was right about Superman; he really is just a dude with superpowers in this universe. He's no Superman, certainly.
 
Alandrus Sun said:
To be fair, that's the point. Watchmen is one of those few decent Snyder flicks. However, it's still not great even with the DC because the source material is way too hard to translate into a film. Watchmen would work better as a one season mini-series.
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ChasingComets said:
I don't think there was anything wrong with that, because that's how he was remembered and idolised; which highlights the contrast with his actual personality.
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I guess, it's just tonally off for me.

I like Watchmen the best of Snyder's movies, but I think Watchmen is only meant to be a comic book, it's tied way down to its original form. Alan Moore might be a nutcase, but in this instance I agree with the guy.
 
Caja 117 said:
In any version of Superman, Lois can be on the other side of the planet and Superman will save her in second, is the mot classic things regarding Superman. Lex was smart enough to hide Martha in a way Superman couldn't find her, but he wasn't counting on Batman to look for her.
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What did Lex do to make it so Clark couldn't find her? She was in the same city next to a window.
 
jett said:
People are all about Batman killing. But according to Snyder all it takes is for Lois or his mom to die for Superman to start cutting captured people in half with his laser-vision.

For me, that was the most gross thing in this movie, and I'm not even that much of a Superman fan.
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To be fair, that's not a NEW idea

The basis of the INjustice universe.

And I wanna say it was similar on Superman TAS a Brave New World.

And the death of the Flash made him kill Luthor in JL
 
The movie has such gigantic issues that I haven't even heard the nitpick of the conviniently placed server room of Lexcorp right next to Lex Luthor's kitchen, that's protected by an open glass door.
 
Alienous said:
"She was my world"

Wah, wah.

Snyder just doesn't like Superman, and doesn't understand Batman. Flash tells Bruce that he was right about Superman; he really is just a dude with superpowers in this universe. He's no Superman, certainly.
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Can we talk about that bullshit Flash Future scene? Why the fuck is Flash delivering cryptic messages to Bruce in the past? Why he can't he just travel right back into the past and talk to Bruce? He's the fucking Flash! He can run through space and time, he has no need to deliver half-messages through some portal all he has to do is run real fast and end up in the past. Has Snyder managed to fuck up Flash as well?

Penguin said:
To be fair, that's not a NEW idea

The basis of the INjustice universe.

And I wanna say it was similar on Superman TAS a Brave New World.

And the death of the Flash made him kill Luthor in JL
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MoS and BvS makes Brave New World Supes look like the shining example of a superhero.
 
You remember that video of Matt and Trey Parker saying how every scene needs to affect the rest?

"This happens, that causes this to happen, and because that happens, this happens."

This movie is the embodiment of what happens when you don't follow that rule.
 
DerZuhälter;199274368 said:
The movie has such gigantic issues that I haven't even heard the nitpick of the conviniently placed server room of Lexcorp right next to Lex Luthor's kitchen, that's protected by an open glass door.
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LOL. I stopped eating my popcorn at that moment too.
 
T'Zariah said:
You remember that video of Matt and Trey Parker saying how every scene needs to affect the rest?

"This happens, that causes this to happen, and because that happens, this happens."

This movie is the embodiment of what happens when you don't follow that rule.
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and then

and then

and then

and then
 
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