No. A lot of posters now pretends like he didn't do anything impressive but there's a strong overlap with the group that said he hit a ceiling at 15%.
Super Tuesday 4. I'm really feeling (The After Bern) March 22, 26 contests
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No. A lot of posters now pretends like he didn't do anything impressive but there's a strong overlap with the group that said he hit a ceiling at 15%.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Until voting starts, and we gain some actually verifiable info it's all conjecture.
Most seemed to think that he would simply be a message candidate that left little mark on the process in the wake of the Clinton machine.
It turns out there's a large slice of younger voters that didn't feel the same way.
Live and learn.
You might find people retroactively changing opinions from 'he has no chance' to 'it doesn't matter'
Bernie could be elected POTUS and you'll be hearing how the presidency isn't really that important anyway.
vicissitudes
Banned
It was certainly gradual but if I had to pinpoint I would say it was when Biden announced he would not run and Bernie became the only viable not-Hillary option on the Dem side. Before that it was still possible that Biden would get in and Bernie would fade as a distant third, winning no states in the primary contest.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Well... it's only as important as what they bring with it.
If it's a Rep congress, then the presidency doesn't have much power for a Dem.
This is true whether it be Hillary or Bernie.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Seriously.
If this would have taken place last month, it could have been a real narrative changer.
As it stands it was a damn good showing, with the math still bad for him.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Can somebody whitesplain to me why minorities still don't like Bernie? The response seems to me to be out of all proportion to the things he's actually said and done.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Both candidates are loved by like 80% of the party.
I doubt it has anything to do with not liking the man. More to do with a general unease at his GE chances.
I'm a full blooded Kansas Socialist fighting for a guaranteed wage, and even I don't think his election would be easy. If at all possible in America in 2016.
Still love the man.
His limited racial equality plans always coming back to income inequality, which by all accounts is not enough. Considering for instance rich black kids get convicted more than poor white kids. His calling Planned Parenthood part of the establishment.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
The most compelling explanation I've heard is that Bernie's strongest demographics can more easily gamble on a far left candidate. A white guy will more or less be fine under President Trump so they can afford to hitch their wagon to the Bernie train. But someone who's not a white, straight male has more skin in the game the further they deviate from that mold. As such, they just need a democrat to win above all else and therefore stick with the safest option. Your consideration of who to vote for is drastically different when you don't just stand to gain good things, but also stand to lose good things depending on who wins.
hodayathink
Member
Yes, I'm referring to his campaign in general, and not today specifically.
He doesn't have major surrogates and the some of the surrogates(West, KillerMike) he has say unpopular things about Obama. But most of the things they say turn off people unlikely to vote for Sanders in any case - older voters.
It's more of a question why older voters don't like him and I'd say cynicism and lacking ties with their community. Being an old white guy who has spend the last decades in Vermont also doesn't help.
In pretty much every speech since getting interrupted by BLM he has said roughly what you wrote
Also the Sanders supporters reaction to BLM interrupting him was another "nope" moment for many
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
HI is really taking its sweet time with that last 12%
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm not even sure what's being argued anymore. This feels like when I say no one wants a Vita on Gaming side.
His strongest demographics are white men and young people, with ymmv on what "young" is. By corollary these are her weakest demographics.
Her strongest demographics are black women and older people. By corollary these are his weakest demographics.
There are still old black women voting for Sanders. There are still young white men voting for Clinton.
The places he wins in are less racially diverse, they tend to be open to independents, they tend to be caucuses, they tend to be more liberal. Places like Utah, places like New Hampshire. The exception to this has been probably Colorado, where there were no exit polls, Michigan and now Hawaii.
There is nothing controversial about these statements.
teruterubozu
Member
I'm surprised Hawai'i is so pro Bernie. It's Obama land and not very white.
It's still a caucus. They reward enthusiastic support especially with folks who can be at a specific place and time and can spent an hour or two to complete the process.
nature boy
Member
Clinton really needs a Sanders/Warren VP, otherwise she'll lose part of the Sanders base.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
teruterubozu
Member
It's Hawai'i, people have a lots of time - lots of retired people. Almost all the Hawai'i representatives endorsed Hillary too. It's definitely a strange blow for Hillary.
The delegate math still vastly favors Hillary, and she'll be the eventual nominee, but it's fascinating how this primary has gone. Sanders went from an absolute non-factor, to winning landslide victories in states as a 74 year old Jewish socialist. There IS a left-wing of our party. We will eventually be represented in the general election.
dozensofus.gif
No, but there are quite a few of us here. You aren't alone. Bernie is awesome, and when I cast my vote for him in two weeks, that will be most gratifying one that I have ever cast, including the two that I gave Obama as an African-American.
dozensofus.gif
No, but there are quite a few of us here. You aren't alone. Bernie is awesome, and when I cast my vote for him in two weeks, that will be most gratifying one that I have ever cast, including the two that I gave Obama as an African-American.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Hawaii and Alaska is pretty damn white. Hell, Alaska is the most white state in America.
She lost to Obama in the same way.
Places like NY she beat Obama with a big lead.
teruterubozu
Member
Honolulu is 60% Asian, and I'm not even counting Polynesians. Of course Alaska is white, I didn't mention Alaska.
Hawaii is primarily Asian and native.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Not even a quarter of the population in Hawaii is white. And I don't think Alaska is even in the top ten of most white states.
Edit- I was right. Here's the top ten whitest states:
Maine
Vermont
New Hampshire
West Virginia
Iowa
Wyoming
Idaho
Montana
Kentucky
North Dakota
Alaska is like 66% with a big Native American & Asian populations
Bernie's worldview is that all boils down to class-based economic warfare in the end - it's core to his socialist worldview. (Wall St = bourgeoisie, Main Street = proletariiat) He has said many things that indicate he sees racial issues as merely a subset of these economic issues, and that by fixing the economic issues, you'd be fixing the racial ones at the same time. He faced major criticism for this early in the campaign and attempted to change the messaging, but it still seeps through when he's speaking.
This is not a point of view that reflects many minorities' lived experiences (especially black people) and it also doesn't match up to the data we have. What Bernie's views translate as, if you don't buy into his "class as the root of all evil" philosophy, is that Sanders is willing to tackle issues affecting minorities.....as long as they happen to affect white people too. Drug decriminalization, police violence, income redistribution - these are all things where the white population is going to see benefits in addition to minorities. The problem comes when trying to discuss issues that are explicitly about race- things like housing/hiring discrimination. Purely economic solutions don't address those, because you have to acknowledge a need for explicit protections and bulwarks.
To use a recent example- we've found out that banning credit checks decreases black employment, and that allowing drug testing increases black employment. The laws are sold as helping minorities, but it turns out they end up helping white people w/ bad credit at the expense of black people in general.
Bernie's support among black voters in the US is also noticeably worse in the South. There was an article about Sanders'/Cinton's outreach to black communities there, and one interesting takeaway was that many of Sanders' black supporters doing the outreach were from outside the region, and there seemed to be a big gulf/disconnect between them and the people they were talking to. This tweetstorm is one of the best things I've seen this election cycle, and it's a great explanation of why many people aren't hopping on board the Sanders train- https://storify.com/docrocktex26/when-racism-gets-in-socialism
This tweet in particular stood out to me as a distillation of the core issue:
ROFLMAO xD
Great post. It is indeed very exciting to see an energised progressive movement in the US.
According to the 2010 census, Hawaii is the least white state in the country and Alaska is the ninth least white state.
That ship has sailed, Sanders has poisoned the well too often and too consistently. She needs to pick an up and comer, someone who can be a viable 2024 candidate.
Because of marginalized ethnic populations with limited participation in the U.S. electoral process, stemming from decades of disenfranchisement.
Alaska has a large indigenous population who are generally isolated from the rest of the state.
Hawaii's indigenous population of pacific islanders weren't even tracked as a separate demographic until the 2000 census. Hawaii also has a large Asian population, with compelling research emerging of late that shows Asians and partial Asians are by far the fastest to adopt white American culture.
They have sizable "minority" populations but they aren't at all like the demographics that break massively towards Clinton (Hispanics and African Americans) for a variety of pretty obvious reasons.
This post, man. Even the non-white votes Bernie gets may as well be white.
The idea that Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, and other groups can all be coalesced into a single "non-white" category is asinine.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
'He has no minority support!' narrative has to be perpetuated or whitesplained.
teruterubozu
Member
Why are you putting minority in quotes?
The Librarian
Banned
Because your friends list is composed of people who know he's going to lose and that last night's results , while good for him, don't matter.
Tesseract
Banned
1611, King James Version of the Bible, Book of Proverbs, 16:18,
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
The Librarian
Banned
It's over. It's been over since NV. It's been REALLY over since last Super Tuesday.1611, King James Version of the Bible, Book of Proverbs, 16:18,
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/bernie-sanders-rallies-money-221201
how much trust should I put into these politico stories?
Tesseract
Banned
Douglas MacArthur would not agree. I choose the matrix.
Because there are multiple definitions for minority. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/minority
In the context of this discussion, the groups in question obviously fall under definition 1. But that's not really the definition that's giving Sanders problems. People who are part of groups falling under definition 4 are where Sanders is having the most trouble making inroads.
TheBritishBear
Banned
For now it is, but for Bernie to make a dent and seriously take the nomination, he has to win every state in the north and west with a 58% lead. Right now, hes been getting 70 to 80 percent of the vote.
If he carries on these similar results, then he's not out. But right now, Hillary had a better chance than Bernie.
If you're a minority and vote for Sanders, you're basically white. Also, if you have to win 58% of the upcoming votes, and start winning states with 70-80%, you're toast anyway. Clinton is unstoppable, also the Bernie Bros are way too racist. Oh, and did you know poor republicans and Bernie Bros constantly vote against their own interests? So, Hail to the Queen, Baby!
boiled goose
good with gravy
I dont agree with everything in the post.
As a person of color I would argue instead that minorities can't afford the status quo.
Now, something interesting in your post that is definitely worthy of discussion is this idea that Bernie will play less ball with Democrats simply because they are Democrats.
He is definitely more in the "principle" over "partisanship"end of the spectrum than Clinton. Which approach is ultimately better? I dont know, hence the justifiable room for disagreement.
To me personally, the "principles" approach resonates better with me and how i ultimately act irl. And on top of that, when it comes to whose underlying values i would ultimately trust more i might lean sanders.
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