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[Dubbedinenglish]

I don't see the problem with insurance companies being like private schools. Everyone pays in to single payer, but if you want your own insurance, you can do that, too. I imagine private insurance companies will become something that middle-high class citizens participate in, like private schools.

Sure that's a significantly smaller marketshare meaning putting people out of work. Again what's Sanders' plan for those people, is the Fed going to hire them? Will they make the same or more if they become Federal employees? What about talent in HC companies, will the gov't under Sanders try to poach them? National HC needs technocrats to run it to a level of competence.

 

[Valhelm]

Given her overwhelming advantages, it's frightening that Clinton has lost so much ground to Sanders, a politically unprecedented insurgent. I'm really unsure that she could beat a more energized candidate in the general election, especially if Trump manages to sweep up independent support.

My hope is that either Cruz wins or runs as a third party. If this happens, Clinton could cruise to victory. Otherwise, I'm not so sure.

 

[Gutek]

How in the hell did you get that from my post?

According to you, black people don't know who Bernie is. How come? Are they not as informed as white people?

 

[eBay Huckster]

Because your friends list is composed of people who know he's going to lose and that last night's results , while good for him, don't matter.

the first thing's true, but i'm not convinced they think the results don't matter considering a lot of these people have been mirroring the more unsavory aspects of /r/s4p after losses

A couple months ago some people on GAF were saying Bernie wouldn't win any state outside of Vermont.

someone on gaf unironically believed in the concept of space moors, you're gonna need to make a stronger argument than that (especially considering OT is pro-bernie overall)

 

[Macho Madness]

Given her overwhelming advantages, it's frightening that Clinton has lost so much ground to Sanders, a politically unprecedented insurgent. I'm really unsure that she could beat a more energized candidate in the general election, especially if Trump manages to sweep up independent support.

My hope is that either Cruz wins or runs as a third party. If this happens, Clinton could cruise to victory. Otherwise, I'm not so sure.

I think people underestimated Bernie as a campaigner and how much his message could resonate.

It also shows the strength of online fundraising. Any other candidate would have bowed out by now because they'd be out of money. Bernie's campaign has a way of turning everything into a chance to raise money, and it's very successful.

She has a lot of faults, that's obvious. But there's definitely more to it than that.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

According to you, black people don't know who Bernie is. How come? Are they not as informed as white people?

Not sure how you get that.

Simply saying the Clintons have been far more visible to minorities over the decades and Sanders has not. Only when he needed the AA vote was when he started to be more visible, and that comes across as only lip service regardless of who he marched with. Pair that with his camp's attitude to black voters "smart enough to vote me" after SC and outright abandoning the black vote, he comes across a lot more insincere to minorities.

 

[royalan]

Most Clinton supporters would vote for Sanders. Many Sanders supporters wouldn't vote for Clinton. She's got a massive issue appealing to independents, especially when paired against Trump, and I'm not sure if she can bridge that very necessary gap.

Only 33% of Bernie's supports have said they wouldn't vote for Hillary. in 2008, the number of people who said they wouldn't vote for Obama was higher than that (around 50% I believe), and look what happened? The party came together to support the candidate who won fair and square. If Hillary goes into the convention with the clear delegate lead, and the DNC even thinks about taking the nomination from her based on some bullshit electability argument, good luck with the fallout. Luckily, I don't think they're that dumb.

As for Independents...hate to say it, but this is not RuPaul's Best Friend Race Independent Primary Race. This is the Democratic Primaries. This is about getting the BASE mobilized and excited. Because WE are the party. We're the people that's going to be out there stumping, and calling, and having the conversations, and helping to win over Independents for the general. We're going to be the ones out there twerking for votes. You want us involved, and Hillary's doing a much better job with us.

Not sure how you get that.

Simply saying the Clintons have been far more visible to minorities over the decades and Sanders has not. Only when he needed the AA vote was when he started to be more visible, and that comes across as only lip service regardless of who he marched with. Pair that with his camp's attitude to black voters "smart enough to vote me" after SC and outright abandoning the black vote, he comes across a lot more insincere to minorities.

Bingo.

 

[potatohead]

Given her overwhelming advantages, it's frightening that Clinton has lost so much ground to Sanders, a politically unprecedented insurgent. I'm really unsure that she could beat a more energized candidate in the general election, especially if Trump manages to sweep up independent support.

My hope is that either Cruz wins or runs as a third party. If this happens, Clinton could cruise to victory. Otherwise, I'm not so sure.

Bernie has almost raised as much as Clinton, which is amazing.

I agree, the advantages are incalculable for Clinton, and yet Sanders is doing amazing. I applaud him for his consistency and class.

Bernie has raised 100 million about and Clinton 130 million I think.

The crazy thing is the great majority of Bernie's donations, about 70% I think, are under $200 which means he has many, many more individual donors.

Sanders deserves this nomination. And I hope he wins.

Clinton is just a representation of the cheap status quo for Americans.

 

[Valhelm]

Well pardon me, you are correct. I'll research more thoroughly next time. I believe I may have mistaken the welfare issue for the crime bill in 1994.

Since your research skills seem better would you mind pointing out the other policies? Your post implies there are many.

The passage of NAFTA disproportionately affected African American workers. I disagree with Sanders' decision to vote on the 94 Crime Bill, but given that the Clintons actively fought for it, often armed with coded racial language, that's not much of a stain against Bernie's record.

Rhetorically, Clinton's record on race is checkered. The most that can be said about Sanders is that he has blind spots, but he's trying very hard to connect to black voters and address issues specific to their communities.

Hillary Clinton generally is not. She has a lot of support among these voters, for generally understandable reasons, but has proven herself to be less proactive and less progressive when it comes to racial equality. She's taken the African American demographic for granted.

Only 33% of Bernie's supports have said they wouldn't vote for Hillary. in 2008, the number of people who said they wouldn't vote for Obama was higher than that (around 50% I believe), and look what happened? The party came together to support the candidate who won fair and square. If Hillary goes into the convention with the clear delegate lead, and the DNC even thinks about taking the nomination from her based on some bullshit electability argument, good luck with the fallout. Luckily, I don't think they're that dumb.

As for Independents...hate to say it, but this is not RuPaul's Best Friend Race Independent Primary Race. This is the Democratic Primaries. This is about getting the BASE mobilized and excited. Because WE are the party. We're the people that's going to be out there stumping, and calling, and having the conversations, and helping to win over Independents for the general. We're going to be the ones out there twerking for votes. You want us involved, and Hillary's doing a much better job with us.

Only 33% is a huge, troubling number. Bernie will need to do everything in his power to steer the attention of his supporters toward Clinton. Because Sanders and Clinton differ so much politically, I'm not sure if we'll see the same begrudging loyalty that happened after Obama's nomination.

 

[Gutek]

Not sure how you get that.

Simply saying the Clintons have been far more visible to minorities over the decades and Sanders has not. Only when he needed the AA vote was when he started to be more visible, and that comes across as only lip service regardless of who he marched with. Pair that with his camp's attitude to black voters "smart enough to vote me" after SC and outright abandoning the black vote, he comes across a lot more insincere to minorities.

What a bullshit argument. The Clintons have been far, far more visible to everyone. I'm going to pull a number out of my ass to illustrate a point: I would bet over 95% of Bernie Bros had no idea who he was 4 years ago.

 

[potatohead]

What a bullshit argument. The Clintons have been far, far more visible to everyone. I'm going to pull a number out of my ass to illustrate a point: I would bet over 95% of Bernie Bros had no idea who he was 4 years ago.

Yup.

Me included.

I simply love his policies and priorities which I think would do good by the vast majority of Americans.

The best thing about his policies is that even publications in the UK and around the world find it terribly ironic that poorer and middle-class Americans that always vote Republican insist on voting Republican despite the clear advantages to their wallets if they would vote for populist policies focused on increasing basic things like the minimum wage.

I don't think people realize how rich a country like the U.S. really is and how well it could easily afford bringing income for low and middle-class well beyond other countries and for the better of their economy too.

 

[Goro Majima]

Clinton could have all the problems in the world with the Sanders base and independents and still win the election against Trump. 75% of all women and probably just as many of minorities won't be voting for him as things stand...that's just unelectable.

Worst case scenario is that we get a president that not many were really excited about despite being the first woman president.

 

[Macho Madness]

That 33% is nonsense when you realize it's 33% of Bernie voters which is about 10% of those who responded in total.

 

[Xe4]

Just woke up. Got dam Bernie, good job in Hawaii. Definetly his best night so far. Probably gonna be the best night his campaign has, unless he pulls a major upset in New York or something.

 

[potatohead]

Clinton could have all the problems in the world with the Sanders base and independents and still win the election against Trump. 75% of all women and probably just as many of minorities won't be voting for him as things stand...that's just unelectable.

Worst case scenario is that we get a president that not many were really excited about despite being the first woman president.

Agreed, still hoping for Sanders though.

I wish Clinton actually gave a fuck. I would support her. But her policy wise she seems to want to maintain what Obama is already doing, and what any other more conservative democratic president would do anyway.

A moral victory for the country that sadly probably won't translate to any tangible victory anywhere else.

 

[DR2K]

Bernie has almost raised as much as Clinton, which is amazing.

I agree, the advantages are incalculable for Clinton, and yet Sanders is doing amazing. I applaud him for his consistency and class.

Bernie has raised 100 million about and Clinton 130 million I think.

The crazy thing is the great majority of Bernie's donations, about 70% I think, are under $200 which means he has many, many more individual donors.

Sanders deserves this nomination. And I hope he wins.

Clinton is just a representation of the cheap status quo for Americans.

At this point he's just raising money on a message with no chance at the nomination. It's the equivalent to big banks taking your money for their own self interests.

 

[Gutek]

At this point he's just raising money on a message with no chance at the nomination. It's the equivalent to big banks taking your money for their own self interests.

Wow! I'm gonna add that one to my anti-Sanders bullshit bingo. "He's basically the big banks now!!!"

 

[royalan]

What a bullshit argument. The Clintons have been far, far more visible to everyone. I'm going to pull a number out of my ass to illustrate a point: I would bet over 95% of Bernie Bros had no idea who he was 4 years ago.

We we say visibility we're not just talking about their status as former President and First Lady, we're talking about visible Democrats. Visible within the party, visible within the black community, and visibly supporting black politicians running for office. I've said it once and I'll say it again: there's a REASON Hillary is getting so much support from black members of congress, and it ain't because they're all shills or low-information.

 

[DR2K]

Wow! I'm gonna add that one to my anti-Sanders bullshit bingo. "He's basically the big banks now!!!"

what do you call taking money for a nomination that can not happen?

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Agreed, still hoping for Sanders though.

I wish Clinton actually gave a fuck.

Me too.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

What a bullshit argument. The Clintons have been far, far more visible to everyone. I'm going to pull a number out of my ass to illustrate a point: I would bet over 95% of Bernie Bros had no idea who he was 4 years ago.

Sure but his camp and himself have handled the AA vote abysmally. His campaign strategy was win before minorities mattered, then southern blacks don't matter/ aren't "smart enough" to vote for him and western blacks should be more receptive.

For all the drum beating of marching with MLK, he has been ignoring the black electorate.

 

[Amir0x]

Agreed, still hoping for Sanders though.

I wish Clinton actually gave a fuck. I would support her. But her policy wise she seems to want to maintain what Obama is already doing, and what any other more conservative democratic president would do anyway.

A moral victory for the country that sadly probably won't translate to any tangible victory anywhere else.

Oh it'll be plenty tangible, since the Supreme Court will be shifted to the left for a generation, and millions will face the benefits of that choice.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Probably not the right site to ask this question but, Americans, how does winning a state as big as Washington fair for Bernie's chances for a nomination? How big is the gap? Too big?

 

[Kyosaiga]

Can't wait for this primary to be over and Sanders goes back to irrelevance like he was a year ago.

 

[Sean C]

Just woke up. Got dam Bernie, good job in Hawaii. Definetly his best night so far. Probably gonna be the best night his campaign has, unless he pulls a major upset in New York or something.

I guess this is debatable, but I'd say the best night of his campaign was the Michigan upset. That briefly led to people wondering whether the polls in other major states were off, which was what he needed to have a chance at winning. That hope was subsequently crushed, but it was a huge night for him at the time.

Agreed, still hoping for Sanders though.

I wish Clinton actually gave a fuck. I would support her. But her policy wise she seems to want to maintain what Obama is already doing, and what any other more conservative democratic president would do anyway.

A moral victory for the country that sadly probably won't translate to any tangible victory anywhere else.

Frankly, the next Democratic president is not going to pass any major new domestic legislation, regardless of who it is. The GOP has the House of Representatives through to the next redistricting, absent the Supreme Court taking the hammer to gerrymandering (which would happen, probably, once Scalia is replaced with a liberal).

At this point he's just raising money on a message with no chance at the nomination. It's the equivalent to big banks taking your money for their own self interests.

I wouldn't say that's quite true. Prolonging the campaign at this point serves to make his message stick more.

Probably not the right site to ask this question but, Americans, how does winning a state as big as Washington fair for Bernie's chances for a nomination? How big is the gap? Too big?

He was expected to win Washington, though not by quite as much as he did.

In terms of delegates, Clinton's lead is about 220. The current wave of Sanders-friendly states will probably, in the end, about reset the race to where it was prior to Clinton's huge wins in Ohio, Florida and North Carolina, i.e., a delegate lead of around 200. That's unassailable, absent some sort of cataclysmic event.

 

[Real Hero]

Can't wait for this primary to be over and Sanders goes back to irrelevance like he was a year ago.

why do you want him to go away?

 

[Bedameister]

How many delegates did Bernie win with these 3 states (were all 3 of them winner-takes all states? If not then how many did Hillary get). I couldn't find that information anywhere, sorry.

 

[B-Dubs]

Probably not the right place to ask this question but, Americans, how does winning a state as big as Washington fair for Bernie's chances for a nomination? How big is the gap? Too big?

Lemme put it this way: when Hillary won Florida she equaled all of Bernie's delegate gains from yesterday. All he did was cancel out her win in Florida.

 

[Macho Madness]

Probably not the right place to ask this question but, Americans, how does winning a state as big as Washington fair for Bernie's chances for a nomination? How big is the gap? Too big?

The problem is bringing up "winning" as if it matters more than it should (and this is something we're all guilty of). It's all proportional so he caught up by some but he's still down by a lot. What matters now is what happens in New York.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

why do you want him to go away?

He has shown zero interest in helping electing other Democrats at local level.

 

[faint.]

someone on gaf unironically believed in the concept of space moors, you're gonna need to make a stronger argument than that (especially considering OT is pro-bernie overall)

Not sure why you quoted me as I'm not arguing anything. I simply replied to a guy who heard that Bernie had no chance in Alaska.

 

[googleplex]

According to you, black people don't know who Bernie is. How come? Are they not as informed as white people?

Oh we know who Bernie is. We just don't give a shit because we know snake oil when we see it.

 

[Hellwarden]

At this point he's just raising money on a message with no chance at the nomination. It's the equivalent to big banks taking your money for their own self interests.

Wow.

 

[Amir0x]

Oh we know who Bernie is. We just don't give a shit because we know snake oil when we see it.

If you got to know him more, though...

 

[Suikoguy]

How many delegates did Bernie win with these 3 states (were all 3 of them winner-takes all states? If not then how many did Hillary get). I couldn't find that information anywhere, sorry.

The estimates currently put it at 68. It was a great night for him, and will probably be his best. However, that only makes up the amount he lost in Florida.

Wow.

It would be nice if he was more realistic, many of these donaters do not have spare income to donate but are finding money to do it anyway.
Point out how the money will continue to be used to spread the message of his campaign, and that his chances are slim but not impossible. (Although, after the 16th it might as well be impossible)

 

[Armaros]

But that's false. Bernie Sanders does address racial justice, more proactively than Clinton does. She has stronger ties to African American communities, but she takes these votes for granted.



Most Clinton supporters would vote for Sanders. Many Sanders supporters wouldn't vote for Clinton. She's got a massive issue appealing to independents, especially when paired against Trump, and I'm not sure if she can bridge that very necessary gap.

Besides the fact that he hasent done anything legislatively or protest oriented about racial inequality or just even working with black communities since he ran for political office?

A campaign plateform does not make up for absence.

 

[Sean C]

How many delegates did Bernie win with these 3 states (were all 3 of them winner-takes all states? If not then how many did Hillary get). I couldn't find that information anywhere, sorry.

Dems don't do winner-take-all.

Alaska and Hawaii are tiny (16 and 25 delegates, respectively); Washington is a big prize (101 delegates; I believe it's the second-largest state Bernie has won). He got 104 delegates; Hillary got 38. So Bernie made a net gain of 66 delegates.

Next up are Wisconsin (86) and Wyoming (14), both of which Bernie should win, then New York (247 delegates), which will go for Hillary.

 

[noshten]

Sure but his camp and himself have handled the AA vote abysmally. His campaign strategy was win before minorities mattered, then southern blacks don't matter/ aren't "smart enough" to vote for him and western blacks should be more receptive.

For all the drum beating of marching with MLK, he has been ignoring the black electorate.

That's entirely the narrative some people have while convienietly forgetting he did contest SC, NV, FL, NC, AZ - SC heavy loss meant he needed to focus his resources on States he could actually win. Money is finite resource despite Sander's capability to raise it, I know some people would have been a lot happier if he went for broke in Super Tuesday and lost the subsequent contests due to a lack of funds.

Through most of 2015, Sanders had resisted bringing a pollster on full time, saying he wasn't going to tailor his message to what day-to-day polls said was popular. But Devine persuaded Sanders to sit down with Tulchin in the fall of 2015. Tulchin formally announced joining the Sanders campaign in January.

"I suspect a lot of that was to try to figure out" which states to target, Shrum said of the campaign's polling budget. "Because if you target the wrong state you're wasting a lot more money than the pollster cost."

Both Sanders' fundraising and spending were up significantly from January, when his campaign raised $20 million while spending $32.4 million. Sanders ended that month with $28.3 million cash on hand.

By the end of February, Shrum noted, it was no surprise that Sanders finished the month with less cash on hand than Clinton despite having raised more: He's using his bank account to try to catch up.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/bernie-sanders-rallies-money-221201

 

[Prologue]

Oh we know who Bernie is. We just don't give a shit because we know snake oil when we see it.

So thats just snake oil in other european nations then huh?

 

[Bedameister]

Dems don't do winner-take-all.

Alaska and Hawaii are tiny (16 and 25 delegates, respectively); Washington is a big prize (101 delegates; I believe it's the second-largest state Bernie has won). He got 104 delegates; Hillary got 38. So Bernie made a net gain of 66 delegates.

Next up are Wisconsin (86) and Wyoming (14), both of which Bernie should win, then New York (247 delegates), which will go for Hillary.

Ok thanks.
When is California? (that's the biggest one right?). What are Bernies chances there?

 

[Suikoguy]

So thats just snake oil in other european nations then huh?

It's a shame the US does not have a European electorate.

Ok thanks.
When is California? (that's the biggest one right?). What are Bernies chances there?

Better than New York, but still not good.

 

[nib95]

Oh we know who Bernie is. We just don't give a shit because we know snake oil when we see it.

Bernie is less snake oil than any other candidate running right now. His history and lack of corporate shillings highlight as much. Just because you've been misinformed in to thinking his policies have no potential future or possible benefit, doesn't make it true.

 

[harSon]

So thats just snake oil in other european nations then huh?

Completely different political climates between the United States and Europe.

 

[N.Domixis]

Can't wait for Bernie to drop out, so much anger from Bernie fans for no reason.

 

[ezrarh]

Besides the fact that he hasent done anything legislatively or protest oriented about racial inequality or just even working with black communities since he ran for political office?

A campaign plateform does not make up for absence.

Most of his political history is as a mayor and congressional representative in Vermont...not exactly a place with a lot of black people to represent. A Congress person's duty is to their constituents and when you're not involved in nationally, I think that would explain a big part of the absence. Hillary has been involved in national politics for a lot longer so it makes sense that she has tried to do more for black communities.

 

[Korigama]

The problem is bringing up "winning" as if it matters more than it should (and this is something we're all guilty of). It's all proportional so he caught up by some but he's still down by a lot. What matters now is what happens in New York.

And in regards to New York, there's nothing suggesting that he would actually win there (the demographics don't favor him there, Hillary remains popular there from her time as senator of that state, and it's also a closed primary). Furthermore, he's even further behind than Hillary already was eight years ago against Obama, and she had no realistic path to the nomination by then either.

He has shown zero interest in helping electing other Democrats at local level.

This is definitely something that's bothered me about him, particularly if he's set on even attempting to pass the sort of lofty reforms to healthcare and college education that he's proposing.

 

[Sean C]

Ok thanks.
When is California? (that's the biggest one right?). What are Bernies chances there?

California (475 delegates) is on June 7, the last big night of the primary calendar, as it also features Montana (21), New Jersey (126), New Mexico (34), and North (18) and South Dakota (20).

Hillary will win California (huge numbers of minority voters) -- as well as New Jersey and New Mexico. Bernie will win Montana and the Dakotas.

 

[nib95]

Completely different political climates between the United States and Europe.

Which is a sorry way to excuse a lack of progress. The political climate may be different, but that's just all the more reason it's in urgent need of a major change and shift right now, not less.

 

[Armaros]

Most of his political history is as a mayor and congressional representative in Vermont...not exactly a place with a lot of black people to represent. A Congress person's duty is to their constituents and when you're not involved in nationally, I think that would explain a big part of the absence. Hillary has been involved in national politics for a lot longer so it makes sense that she has tried to do more for black communities.

He wasnt even involved with the small minority outreach in his state. Those leaders have said as such.

And never addressed how horrible the black incarceration rate is in Vermont. the ratio is absurd, like 15x the average population.

He wants to talk about the injustice about incarceration rates for blacks, yet Vermont has one of the worst rates vs population and he never adressed it before his campaign,

 

[Hellwarden]

It would be nice if he was more realistic, many of these donaters do not have spare income to donate but are finding money to do it anyway.
Point out how the money will continue to be used to spread the message of his campaign, and that his chances are slim but not impossible. (Although, after the 16th it might as well be impossible)

Don't get me wrong. I wish Bernie would drop out too, despite supporting him. He basically can't win, and he has a lot of asshole supporters who can't accept that.

That said, I think comparing him to a large bank that systematically abuses its power might be the most absurd shit I've heard all day.