Sanders on breaking up banks "I have not studied... the legal implications of that"

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These are textbook "bailout" funds. The information was obtained in a FOIA request and it totaled about 8 trillion as of 2009. More has been given out since in additional bailouts, QE, and interest free lending.

Fuck, they handed out 1.4 trillion on December 5, 2008 alone and kept it hidden for years.

The fact most people think America was paid back for it all is sad and disheartening.

Are you talking about funds that were set aside or funds that were actually committed? In which specific programs? All of this has been outted already, and it's not nears as inflammatory as you suggest and all of it was necessary and most of it prudently invested not "given out" as you suggest.

The fact that you lump Quantitative Easing in with "bailout" funds shows you have little understanding of the purpose and source for the different funding programs stemming from the 2008 crisis.

Edit:

Now, I'm not saying that the bailouts are something we should look forward to doing during the next crisis, but they are an absolutely necessary tool and they were utilized wisely.
 
Finally, the comment on corporate media corruption really makes me wonder how much US-based media you consume.

It's easy to explain US corporate media corruption.

Time Warner owning CNN, Comcast owning MSNBC. They were almost the same company in 2014.

Either way, both are heavy political contributions to certain candidates, namely Hillary Clinton. They are lobbying to get things like net neutrality removed so they can make more profit on their internet services.

Of course they are going to control the discourse in favour of Hillary Clinton. Do you really not see that?

The US media is directly tied to corporations in politics. It's almost as bad as Chinese State run media.

*I won't even mention Fox News as that one is obvious.
 
lot of double standards going on. If Hillary had given interview responses like this, she'd be CRUCIFIED

And rightfully so. On the other hand, she actually knows what she's talking about so it's not an issue.

As somebody said, you might not always like the answers, but at least Hillary understands the questions. Bernie doesn't understand the questions and doesn't have the answers - and those are questions central to his entire Presidential campaign. That fundamental lack of understanding makes him unfit to be President.
It's easy to explain US corporate media corruption.

Time Warner owning CNN, Comcast owning MSNBC. They were almost the same company in 2014.

Either way, both are heavy political contributions to certain candidates, namely Hillary Clinton. They are lobbying to get things like net neutrality removed so they can make more profit on their internet services.

Of course they are going to control the discourse in favour of Hillary Clinton. Do you really not see that?

The US media is directly tied to corporations in politics. It's almost as bad as Chinese State run media.

*I won't even mention Fox News as that one is obvious.

In Bernie's mind he never screws up - it's always the fault of literally everything and everyone else. If you spend your entire candidacy blaming your failures on others then perhaps you should start looking at yourself for once.
 
These are textbook "bailout" funds. The information was obtained in a FOIA request and it totaled about 8 trillion as of 2009. More has been given out since in additional bailouts, loan guarantees, QE, and interest free lending.

Fuck, they handed out 1.4 trillion on December 5, 2008 alone and kept it hidden for years.

The fact most people think America was paid back for it all is sad and disheartening.

What?

You are conflating bog-standard monetary policy with TARP. What are you even talking about? Is the FED bailing out people every time they change the buying of assets to change the interest rate, in your view?
 
What?

You are conflating bog-standard monetary policy with TARP. What are you even talking about? Is the FED bailing out people every time they change the buying of assets to change the interest rate, in your view?

In some people's view, the FED artificially keeping interest rates low probably qualifies has bailout funds.
 
It's easy to explain US corporate media corruption.

Time Warner owning CNN, Comcast owning MSNBC. They were almost the same company in 2014.

Either way, both are heavy political contributions to certain candidates, namely Hillary Clinton. They are lobbying to get things like net neutrality removed so they can make more profit on their internet services.

Of course they are going to control the discourse in favour of Hillary Clinton. Do you really not see that?

The US media is directly tied to corporations in politics. It's almost as bad as Chinese State run media.

*I won't even mention Fox News as that one is obvious.
Fucking Tom Wheeler went for Net Neutrality.
What does that tell you about the influence of corporations on the political discourse?
Big Republican donors were unable to even have a candidate this turn around even.
e: and fucking MSNBC is like the rest of the media trying to make this done and over race be a dead heat, you're blind if you think they're pushing a pro Hillary narrative.
 
It's easy to explain US corporate media corruption.

Time Warner owning CNN, Comcast owning MSNBC. They were almost the same company in 2014.

Either way, both are heavy political contributions to certain candidates, namely Hillary Clinton. They are lobbying to get things like net neutrality removed so they can make more profit on their internet services.

Of course they are going to control the discourse in favour of Hillary Clinton. Do you really not see that?

The US media is directly tied to corporations in politics. It's almost as bad as Chinese State run media.

*I won't even mention Fox News as that one is obvious.

First let me make it clear that it is not my position that there are no issues with corruption or bias within the US media.

You suggested that the media was pressing Sanders for details on his plans and not Clinton's as a result of corruption. The thing is, by and large, they haven't pushed Sanders for details, and to the extent that they have distorted the race the biggest distortion has been portraying the race as closer than it really is for the sake of ratings.
 
First let me make it clear that it is not my position that there are no issues with corruption or bias within the US media.

You suggested that the media was pressing Sanders for details on his plans and not Clinton's as a result of corruption. The thing is, by and large, they haven't pushed Sanders for details, and to the extent that they have distorted the race the biggest distortion has been portraying the race as closer than it really is for the sake of ratings.

This kind of misunderstanding on the basics of the way the media are working is enough to make me want to drown a box of kittens, no offense meant btw.
 
I feel bad. Even the left wing citizens, including a good number of members on GAF, are so enveloped in the American self-focused bubble that they can't see all that they are missing and what's wrong. They get bogged down in the minutiae (which is what they want you to focus on) instead of looking at the overall large issues facing your country. Or just accept that they cannot be changed, even though most modern nations on this planet were able to solve them over the last century.

Every time I'm in a US politics thread, which I'm in often as it's a fantastic drama to watch (it has replaced Game of Thrones and Suits for me while those are off air), it makes me grateful I'm not an American and live in a modern country.
 
Welp. "Let corruption run rampant, is human nature!" would be a great slogan.

And globalization is kind of a "fuck you, I got mine, buy it".

I never said to let corruption run rampant, but presuming you can build a regulatory structure people can't exploit is absurd. That is the whole point here. The lending crisis didn't occur because people were breaking the law and hiding it. Many of the worst offenders were entirely compliant with the letter of the laws, but the shape of the economy changes too rapidly and the minds working to crack the system are too many and too strong to be held off forever.

This is the beauty of Dodd-Frank. It's self policing in that the on-hand reserve requirements for "too big to fail" companies is substantial and the bill was structured such that any future financial crisis will first be bankrolled by the on-hand reserves of the failing bank(s) in question as well as that of their peers. Then government funding would step in for any shortfall. So if one fails they all take a hit. They've had responsibility for each other thrust upon them and will obviously be far more interested in their peers being well behaved actors going forward.

That doesn't mean we'll never have another financial crisis. It's only a matter of time.

Lastly, a globalized economy is the exact opposite of "fuck you I got mine". Sanders' proposals to gut free trade and destroy the large multinational banks is "fuck you I got mine" by the U.S. from the perspective of literally every other nation out there. The emerging world are able to emerge because of global banking entities that can lend meaningful amounts of money to them at reasonable interest rates. And by them I mean everyone. From small business owners to nation states themselves. Money needs to flow and the only way it flows without direct foreign government intervention is through the globalized banking system.

Every time I'm in a US politics thread, which I'm in often as it's a fantastic drama to watch (it has replaced Game of Thrones and Suits for me while those are off air), it makes me grateful I'm not an American and live in a modern country.

Don't worry, we're grateful you aren't too.

And you're welcome for not living under a Nazi or fascist regime, no thanks needed.
 
It makes little difference whether the Fed is insuring funds, investing them or lending them when they all constitute propping up a private entity. The point is, if you consider the entirety of the bailout to be 700 billion dollars you are delusional. The actual figure runs somewhere between a few trillion to over ten trillion.
 
I feel bad. Even the left wing citizens, including a good number of members on GAF, are so enveloped in the American self-focused bubble that they can't see all that they are missing and what's wrong. They get bogged down in the minutiae (which is what they want you to focus on) instead of looking at the overall large issues facing your country. Or just accept that they cannot be changed, even though most modern nations on this planet were able to solve them over the last century.

Every time I'm in a US politics thread, which I'm in often as it's a fantastic drama to watch (it has replaced Game of Thrones and Suits for me while those are off air), it makes me grateful I'm not an American and live in a modern country.



What condescending bullshit.


It makes little difference whether the Fed is insuring funds, investing them or lending them when they all constitute propping up a private entity. The point is, if you consider the entirety of the bailout to be 700 billion dollars you are delusional. The actual figure runs somewhere between a few trillion to over ten trillion.

It makes a whole fuckload of difference how the money flows, what the stipulations are, how the policy was applied, and what it actually entails. You don't get to open that box, throw everything under the term bailout, and then stop right at the "it's a huge number, let's just leave it at that and not be concerned with the actual details".
 
This is fucking hilarious.

No, Sanders voters, this is not the corrupt media sabotaging Bernie.

You wanted him to be taken seriously as a candidate? This what it looks like.

Remember when people who have been following elections for longer than a year said that the reason Bernie was winning in electability against Repubs slightly more than Hillary was because he was a virtual unknown, never having been grilled or vetted, being compared to someone who has been taking it on the chin from the right for 20 years?

Remember when they said that he would be torn apart in the general once the right wing's canons were aimed his way?

He's already faltering and he hasn't even been attacked yet. He's just being asked questions and he's already shittting the bed.

Welcome to the real world.
 
Welcome to the real world.

The real world has heavy banking regulations, universal healthcare, universal education programs, paid maternity leave, etc, etc.

What you mean to say is "Welcome to the USA"

That's the point I'm trying to make. You have one candidate who is telling you things are wrong fundamentally and showing you that it's not normal for it to be like this. And you're getting bogged down in the minutiae like a bad interview. Also expecting someone to have answers to everything without the time it'll take to analyze how to fix the problems using the resources of the federal government. Bernie's strength is recognizing that there is a problem and being only one with the courage to say it instead of being bought out to run his career.

EDIT - And my commentary on corrupt media was in regards to these line of questions not hitting Hillary Clinton. She gets everything soft. Why isn't she being constantly grilled about her Goldman Sachs speeches? About her campaign financing? Exact specifics on her education program? Fracking support? Etc. The answer is due to the corruption of your media.
 
I feel bad. Even the left wing citizens, including a good number of members on GAF, are so enveloped in the American self-focused bubble that they can't see all that they are missing and what's wrong. They get bogged down in the minutiae (which is what they want you to focus on) instead of looking at the overall large issues facing your country. Or just accept that they cannot be changed, even though most modern nations on this planet were able to solve them over the last century.

Every time I'm in a US politics thread, which I'm in often as it's a fantastic drama to watch (it has replaced Game of Thrones and Suits for me while those are off air), it makes me grateful I'm not an American and live in a modern country.

If you stop to look the world around you instead of navel gazing so much you're talking to your esophagus you would know that the issue of healthcare for example is very far from being "solved" in Europe for example.
Even in UK and in France for example, there's constant talk on how to finance the whole thing and avoid a total failure of the system.
The situation is not as dire as the US but it's so far from perfect it might as well be on another continent.

And for the record there's no universal healthcare in the EU, there's multiple systems that strive to cover people living in these countries.
As for banking regulations, lol it's not that different from what's in the US.
 
The real world has heavy banking regulations, universal healthcare, universal education programs, paid maternity leave, etc, etc.

What you mean to say is "Welcome to the USA"

That's the point I'm trying to make. You have one candidate who is telling you things are wrong fundamentally and showing you that it's not normal for it to be like this. And you're getting bogged down in the minutiae like a bad interview.

We actually have more than one candidate telling us that. Clinton also supports banking regulation, college education, universal health care, and paid maternity leave. Getting bogged down in the minutiae of these plans is how we ensure that we get one that works.
 
Serious question: what the fuck are you talking about?

Having investment and commercial banks separate is a thing. We used to do it. Many economists support it. So, yes, it is complicated when you get to the details and Sanders will have to learn a lot more about that were he in a position to try and move on it, but acting like he needs be the economic expert who figures it all out when creating the law is just nonsense. Since when is this how American lawmakers make laws?

So when Barney Frank helped create and pass Dodd-Frank he had no knowledge about how to accomplish the things he wanted done?
 
Bernie said a tremendous amount of stupid and scary things in that interview. The quote in the topic title is a really poor representation of that. In that quote he was just saying that he didn't know about a recent legal case, which is understandable.

The rest of the interview though, shit. Dude is a fraud and should be nowhere near the presidency.
 
Start with Dodd-Frank being a joke of a regulation legislation. It's ineffective.

See this as a quick example of how Dodd-Frank doesn't work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYtSMLgaW6U



The Clinton have collected a total of $153 million from speaking fees. Clintons have done very well for their donors, especially Wall Street. Show me something they've done to harm their donors. Not what they've said, but what they've done. Your entire political system is corrupt.

.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...y-clinton-says-she-called-wall-street-regula/

Hillary in 2007 proposed regulations on the financial industry, as in actually sponsored legislation as Senator. It didn't pass but I don't see how you can fault Hillary on that.

Also Hillary's central idea for campaign finance reform is matching small donor donations, which would be highly effective and reduce need to rely on large financial donors
 
The real world has heavy banking regulations, universal healthcare, universal education programs, paid maternity leave, etc, etc.

What you mean to say is "Welcome to the USA"

That's the point I'm trying to make. You have one candidate who is telling you things are wrong fundamentally and showing you that it's not normal for it to be like this. And you're getting bogged down in the minutiae like a bad interview. Also expecting someone to have answers to everything without the time it'll take to analyze how to fix the problems using the resources of the federal government. Bernie's strength is recognizing that there is a problem and being only one with the courage to say it instead of being bought out to run his career.

EDIT - And my commentary on corrupt media was in regards to these line of questions not hitting Hillary Clinton. She gets everything soft. Why isn't she being constantly grilled about her Goldman Sachs speeches? About her campaign financing? Exact specifics on her education program? Fracking support? Etc. The answer is due to the corruption of your media.

This such a shitty shit post that I don't even know where to begin.

Your point is pretty much "none of it matters, platitudes are just fine because these things exist somewhere else". It's so patently absurd, especially coupled with your ridiculous condescension.
 
It's easy to explain US corporate media corruption.

Time Warner owning CNN, Comcast owning MSNBC. They were almost the same company in 2014.

Either way, both are heavy political contributions to certain candidates, namely Hillary Clinton. They are lobbying to get things like net neutrality removed so they can make more profit on their internet services.

Of course they are going to control the discourse in favour of Hillary Clinton. Do you really not see that?

The US media is directly tied to corporations in politics. It's almost as bad as Chinese State run media.

*I won't even mention Fox News as that one is obvious.

... This is like saying that because the Huffington Post is owned by Verizon that they're pro-republican.
 
We actually have more than one candidate telling us that. Clinton also supports banking regulation, college education, universal health care, and paid maternity leave. Getting bogged down in the minutiae of these plans is how we ensure that we get one that works.

Luckily I've been on GAF for over a decade. I remember posting on GAF during 9/11 actually, back when it was on ezboards, so 15 years soon? So I should be here in 4 years to come back to you guys to see how that banking regulation, college education, universal health care, and paid maternity leave is going.

You will see shifts the same way she was against the bankruptcy bill before getting elected then voted for it due to her senator contributions from major banks.
 
Luckily I've been on GAF for over a decade. I remember posting on GAF during 9/11 actually, back when it was on ezboards, so 15 years soon? So I should be here in 4 years to come back to you guys to see how that banking regulation, college education, universal health care, and paid maternity leave is going.

You will see shifts the same way she was against the bankruptcy bill before getting elected then voted for it due to her senator contributions from major banks.

I thought you weren't worried about sweating the details?

Only championing for the ideas mattered?
 
Luckily I've been on GAF for over a decade. I remember posting on GAF during 9/11 actually, back when it was on ezboards, so 15 years soon? So I should be here in 4 years to come back to you guys to see how that banking regulation, college education, universal health care, and paid maternity leave is going.

Expecting any of that to change in just 4 years is being entirely ignorant to American culture and how the government was set up to function.
 
This such a shitty shit post that I don't even know where to begin.

Your point is pretty much "none of it matters, platitudes are just fine because these things exist somewhere else". It's so patently absurd, especially coupled with your ridiculous condescension.

I know. It's like "Let's build the tallest building in the world! All we need to do is keeping putting bricks on top of each other!" And when someone mentions that maybe that's a naive and simplistic attenpt at describing how to build a skyscraper and we should come up with a more detailed plan, the response is "Gosh, you Americans get too bogged down with minutiae! Tall buildings exist all over the world! I'm so glad I live in a civilized country where building them isn't a concern!"
 
The real world has heavy banking regulations, universal healthcare, universal education programs, paid maternity leave, etc, etc.

What you mean to say is "Welcome to the USA"

That's the point I'm trying to make. You have one candidate who is telling you things are wrong fundamentally and showing you that it's not normal for it to be like this. And you're getting bogged down in the minutiae like a bad interview.

If any of the big banks go belly up everyone on this planet will be hurting, that's just a fact of life. No country is so isolated as to no be impacted by the too big to fail banks/companies. Also, I like Bernie and support all his major talking points but, even if you ignore congress, without a concrete plan they are nothing more than pie in the sky.
 
I feel bad. Even the left wing citizens, including a good number of members on GAF, are so enveloped in the American self-focused bubble that they can't see all that they are missing and what's wrong. They get bogged down in the minutiae (which is what they want you to focus on) instead of looking at the overall large issues facing your country. Or just accept that they cannot be changed, even though most modern nations on this planet were able to solve them over the last century.

Every time I'm in a US politics thread, which I'm in often as it's a fantastic drama to watch (it has replaced Game of Thrones and Suits for me while those are off air), it makes me grateful I'm not an American and live in a modern country.

Absolutely agree, but you aren't going to many others in these threads. Instead you'll have to revel in the hyperbole of "keep this fucking fraud as far away from the presidency as possible," and "the worst political response I've ever seen." Are you serious? Have you watched any other interviews this week alone? And as far as I remember, even if most of Hillarys questions are softballs sometimes she screws up those.


And no, Tabris' post is not condescending.

This is fucking hilarious.

No, Sanders voters, this is not the corrupt media sabotaging Bernie.

You wanted him to be taken seriously as a candidate? This what it looks like.

Remember when people who have been following elections for longer than a year said that the reason Bernie was winning in electability against Repubs slightly more than Hillary was because he was a virtual unknown, never having been grilled or vetted, being compared to someone who has been taking it on the chin from the right for 20 years?

Remember when they said that he would be torn apart in the general once the right wing's canons were aimed his way?

He's already faltering and he hasn't even been attacked yet. He's just being asked questions and he's already shittting the bed.

Welcome to the real world.

This is condescending.
 
Luckily I've been on GAF for over a decade. I remember posting on GAF during 9/11 actually, back when it was on ezboards, so 15 years soon? So I should be here in 4 years to come back to you guys to see how that banking regulation, college education, universal health care, and paid maternity leave is going.

You will see shifts the same way she was against the bankruptcy bill before getting elected then voted for it due to her senator contributions from major banks.

I never said it would take 4 years. I never said that Clinton would even be able to accomplish it in 8. Don't put words in my mouth. All I said was that Clinton supports these things, in addition Bernie. If we want them to work, and we want to do what we can to improve the lives of all of us, I think maybe there's an argument to be made for checking the details of the plan before we pick it, don't you?

Hell, honestly, the degree to which you scrutinize the details of a plan should go up in proportion to how much benefit the plan is proposing. More extraordinary claims should be analyzed more.
 
The real world has heavy banking regulations, universal healthcare, universal education programs, paid maternity leave, etc, etc.

What you mean to say is "Welcome to the USA"

That's the point I'm trying to make. You have one candidate who is telling you things are wrong fundamentally and showing you that it's not normal for it to be like this. And you're getting bogged down in the minutiae like a bad interview. Also expecting someone to have answers to everything without the time it'll take to analyze how to fix the problems using the resources of the federal government. Bernie's strength is recognizing that there is a problem and being only one with the courage to say it instead of being bought out to run his career.

The problem isn't just one interview. Not having anything close to a workable plan for implementing any of his ideas is hardly minutiae. I've said before that I'm glad Bernie is there to talk about the big problems facing the country, but being president isn't just about saying the right things, it's also about getting things done. That means putting justices on the Supreme Court who won't strike down progressive legislation, it means helping your allies get elected to Congress, it means putting in the effort to win the statehouses where a huge share of the governing in this country actually occurs. I'm sure if Sanders were to become president he'd appoint fine justices, but he's basically done nothing in his career with the other two. Instead he has this fantasy that a bunch of young people are going to convince Republicans in gerrymandered safe districts to vote for free college education.

Some day soon I hope to vote for someone who has as strong of a big picture vision as Sanders (not to say that I don't have my disagreements with some aspects of his overall vision), but who can also build a coalition and actually accomplish things. For now I'll have to "settle" for someone who still agrees with Sanders on most of the issues. I agree, for example, that it's a huge problem that we don't have national paid maternity leave in the US. That's why I'm glad it's part of Hillary Clinton's platform. She may not actually be able to pass it, but I'll take some chance over zero chance.
 
I just can't take him seriously as a presidential candidate

I figured he would at least get into more specifics as the primary went on, but other than providing a tax plan, which every candidate has, he has not.
 
Luckily I've been on GAF for over a decade. I remember posting on GAF during 9/11 actually, back when it was on ezboards, so 15 years soon? So I should be here in 4 years to come back to you guys to see how that banking regulation, college education, universal health care, and paid maternity leave is going.

You will see shifts the same way she was against the bankruptcy bill before getting elected then voted for it due to her senator contributions from major banks.

And what do you think Sanders would accomplish on these fronts in four years?
 
It's easy to explain US corporate media corruption.

Time Warner owning CNN, Comcast owning MSNBC. They were almost the same company in 2014.

Either way, both are heavy political contributions to certain candidates, namely Hillary Clinton. They are lobbying to get things like net neutrality removed so they can make more profit on their internet services.

Of course they are going to control the discourse in favour of Hillary Clinton. Do you really not see that?

The US media is directly tied to corporations in politics. It's almost as bad as Chinese State run media.

*I won't even mention Fox News as that one is obvious.
Wait a minute. Do you actually have any evidence that corporate ownership actually leads to editorial control? Or are you just talking out of your ass.
 
And no, Tabris' post is not condescending.
Really? Between a lack of knowledge of how the American politic system functions, the speed at which it's functioned for 200 years, and ridiculous comparisons between US media and Chinese propaganda? To come in and then judge the entire country with huge holes in knowledge of how it works? That's not condescending?
 
....

I can't even begin to explain to you how ignorant this statement is.

You aren't Chinese. You aren't American. You don't know anything about either. You have no fucking clue what it means when you reference the politics behind Chinese media.

Please, please, don't ever make this comparison seriously again.

Ah, but I think we just don't understand, you see! He's from a civilized country. He knows more about the two countries' media and politics than I'll ever learn, what with my subpar American education! We're just too focused on minutiae, I think. Like whether or not comparisons make sense.
 
Wait a minute. Do you actually have any evidence that corporate ownership actually leads to editorial control? Or are you just talking out of your ass.

There are numerous confirmed reports of clinton staff ghostwriting articles or blackmailing journalists for scoops. So there are probably some strands of evidence for financial control to editorial control
 
In 2013 Bernie proposed legislation to break up the banks. It's called the "Too Big to Fail, Too Big to Exist Act".

It's two pages long. So you can easily read it for yourself

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s685/text

Actually here I'll just post the entire thing

This Act may be cited as the" Too Big to Fail, Too Big to Exist Act ".

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, not later than 90 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of the Treasury shall submit to Congress a list of all commercial banks, investment banks, hedge funds, and insurance companies that the Secretary believes are too big to fail, which shall include, but is not limited to, any United States bank holding companies that have been identified as systemically important banks by the Financial Stability Board (in this Act referred to as the"Too Big to Fail List").

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, beginning 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of the Treasury shall break up entities included on the Too Big To Fail List, so that their failure would no longer cause a catastrophic effect on the United States or global economy without a taxpayer bailout.

For purposes of this Act, the term Too Big to Fail means any entity that has grown so large that its failure would have a catastrophic effect on the stability of either the financial system or the United States economy without substantial Government assistance.

That's not a summary. That's the actual bill.
 
Wait a minute. Do you actually have any evidence that corporate ownership actually leads to editorial control? Or are you just talking out of your ass.

There's so much evidence to the contrary that it's not even worth discussing. Hell, just look at the night and day political difference between fox news and fox entertainment channels.
 
The real world has heavy banking regulations, universal healthcare, universal education programs, paid maternity leave, etc, etc.
So where is this utopia you describe then? Please give an example (hint: I'm going to point out to you afterwards how that country has a ton of shitty elements too, because they all do).

What you mean to say is "Welcome to the USA"
Well, the rest of the world runs through the lone superpower, so I'd say the two are synonymous.

That's the point I'm trying to make. You have one candidate who is telling you things are wrong fundamentally and showing you that it's not normal for it to be like this. And you're getting bogged down in the minutiae like a bad interview. Also expecting someone to have answers to everything without the time it'll take to analyze how to fix the problems using the resources of the federal government. Bernie's strength is recognizing that there is a problem and being only one with the courage to say it instead of being bought out to run his career.
We have a few candidates running on populist platforms built around pointing out the alleged boogieman. I'm sure Ted Cruz supporters would make this exact same statement with his name in place of Bernie. They blame everything on the gays and muslins taking over Amurica. Trump supporters claim it's all the dirty mexicans, blacks, and, again, muslins, taking over Amurica and stealing jerbs.

Just because Sanders' populist boogieman is somewhat articulately stated and it dovetails with the "Europe is a utopia" young liberals are so willing to believe doesn't mean he isn't telling a fairy tale.

A few quick facts:
1. His universal healthcare policy will result in major economic hardship on the American middle class, which is the entire core of the economy. So it would effectively force a recession. What a fucking genius.

2. His model for free tuition a. requires states to match federal funds 1:1, which almost none can afford, b. expects GOP governors who refused 90% of medicare expansion funds to deny healthcare to their citizens to suddenly jump on board with this idea. c. does nothing to fix the real problem of post-college underemployment and prevalence of junk degrees and lastly d. tries to pay for all of this using a transaction tax on Wall St., a system he clearly doesn't understand, based on one economist telling him it would raise way more than the $75B his campaign claims this needs. Other estimates suggest it would provide less than half of it and some that it would provide zero additional money.

3. He wants to break up big banks but as seen in this thread doesn't know how and can't even really articulate why. Barnie Frank, someone who actually knows what the hell they're talking about on this, has routinely tore him apart in every written and verbal statement he's made in response to Sanders questions.

4. Claims that all of this will get passed on the grounds of young people standing in front of state houses and shouting at politicians. Literally not even trying to make real change through the democratic process, just cry for what you want and expect to have it handed to you. What a fucking plan.

He's a sham propped up by the corporate controlled media you're railing against because he makes headlines. He also peddles in the same vacuous no substance or merit soundbites they live off of. As a result there are large chunks on either end of the political spectrum who lack the ability to understand policy and instead just believe the guy who tells them what they want to hear. On the far left that is Sanders. On the right it was Cruz, then he got Trumped.

EDIT - And my commentary on corrupt media was in regards to these line of questions not hitting Hillary Clinton. She gets everything soft. Why isn't she being constantly grilled about her Goldman Sachs speeches? About her campaign financing? Exact specifics on her education program? Fracking support? Etc. The answer is due to the corruption of your media.
Yep, Hillary Clinton, the woman who has been the subject of constant attack for nearly thirty years by the GOP, the primary target of Citizen's United, a woman who's emails are the go to filler story across all media outlets, is getting a free pass. Sure.

No one grills her on policy because they've tried and she makes them look like a goddamn fool. Congress has tried and the only result was a bunch of funny gifs starring Clinton. Her policy is day one ready while Sanders can't even articulate a general concept worth a shit for any of his proposals. The intellectual merit gap here is literally as wide as it could possibly get yet false equivalency bullshit earns Sanders a free pass from the "corrupt media" until he steps in it like this interview.

As for her GS speeches, who gives a fuck? As I said in another thread - what would be the purpose? What kind of smoking gun do you think is in there? She isn't the one calling for the destruction of Wall St. as part of her political platform. Should we get to hear the voicemails she left Chelsea after the birth of her grandchild? I mean, how do we know it didn't include secrets about what she did to Dr. Benjamin Ghazi, god rest his patriotic soul!

Her campaign financing is going to win the Senate, so uh, yeah.

On education - she has been an intellectual of merit on child education policy since she was 22 and wrote papers still referenced in research and studies today. She is a fucking GIANT on education policy and unlike Sanders gets that free tuition isn't worth a shit if we have poor head start and K-12 funding for low income neighborhoods, baking in an economic and racial divide.

Fracking support? The same as Obama. Demure and let it continue as it is the single biggest tool we have to avoid a deeper conflict with Russia and in the Middle East.

She has answered all of this, multiple times. That's the whole goddamn point. The media keeps propping Sanders up and presenting the race as closer than it is because they know Hillary isn't going to give them something shocking or fresh. She is going to hit the talking points, crush them on policy questions, and walk away with the same boring news that killed viewership of the national nightly programs years ago. It isn't corruption, it's boredom in a cycle filled with caricatures and cartoons other than her.
 
Look, I'll just say this and I'm out. This is not the best response, but it's not nearly as bad as I expected based on the title and some of the comments in here. We can pretend like he has no plan and is just ideas, but he has passed more (roll call) amendments than any member of the house in his time there, and he actually has outlined how he plans to pay for some of these "lofty" goals. You can find them on his website.

What I'm looking for in a presidential candidate is someone who doesn't flip flop his or her opinions for what is politically convenient, someone who has historically fought on the right side of issues as much as possible, and probably most importantly someone I believe will make a huge effort to put an end to our campaign finance problems that are absolutely infuriating to me.

And you know what? I don't care what this post says about me, but ive spent a year in Europe including a large chunk of that time staying in Europe with my Girlfriend. I've seen how things are over there. I don't care if it seems hard to pass some of the things he wants, I want to vote on someone who is going to try rather than settle for the status quo.

This thread is just far too nasty.
 
Here's an example of some of the data regarding media blackouts on candidate not reflective of the popularity of candidate:

http://decisiondata.org/news/political-media-blackouts-president-2016/

First, this does not make the upstream and downstream connection you implied in any way.

Second, a negative correlation between online searches and media coverage is not media bias. This is why there's whole fields and decades of study dedicated to understanding causality.

Here's an actual, proper empirical study peer-reviewed into a top journal on media bias, identifying that the bias is mostly driven by demand rather than supply:

http://web.stanford.edu/~gentzkow/research/BiasReputation.pdf
 
This is essentially the primary reason I support Clinton over Sanders. He's great at liberal rhetoric, but he seems to collapse when pressed for details. He also seems to be fairly well versed in issues regarding the 1% and campaign finance, but I'm hard pressed to find examples of his expertise in any other area. He just isn't prepared for the job. Hillary has immense and diverse experience, and knows how to play the game to get things done.

I'm so confused by this statement. California has a budget surplus right now. But their budget problems were actually due in part to a lot of social programs. California basically has half of what Sanders is campaigning on enacted already (i.e. helathercare, minimum wage increases, free college, etc.) and has had them for awhile. Are you pointing to those as examples of democracy gone wrong?

You must not live in California. Medi-cal is Medicaid, otherwise you're buying on the exchange or getting it through your employer. As far as free college, there hasn't been tuition free college since the 70's, and before that there were still all kinds of fees for students to pay.
 
Look, I'll just say this and I'm out. This is not the best response, but it's not nearly as bad as I expected based on the title and some of the comments in here. We can pretend like he has no plan and is just ideas, but he has passed more (roll call) amendments than any member of the house in his time there, and he actually has outlined how he plans to pay for some of these "lofty" goals. You can find them on his website.

What I'm looking for in a presidential candidate is someone who doesn't flip flop his or her opinions for what is politically convenient, someone who has historically fought on the right side of issues as much as possible, and probably most importantly someone I believe will make a huge effort to put an end to our campaign finance problems that are absolutely infuriating to me.

And you know what? I don't care what this post says about me, but ive spent a year in Europe including a large chunk of that time staying in Europe with my Girlfriend. I've seen how things are over there. I don't care if it seems hard to pass some of the things he wants, I want to vote on someone who is going to try rather than settle for the status quo.

This thread is just far too nasty.

If you want someone who will tackle campaign finance, you're in luck, you have two candidates to choose from.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/campaign-finance-reform/

Overturn Citizens United. Hillary will appoint Supreme Court justices who value the right to vote over the right of billionaires to buy elections. She’ll push for a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United in order to restore the role of everyday voters in elections.

End secret, unaccountable money in politics. Hillary will push for legislation to require outside groups to publicly disclose significant political spending. And until Congress acts, she'll sign an executive order requiring federal government contractors to do the same. Hillary will also promote an SEC rule requiring publicly traded companies to disclose political spending to shareholders.

Amplify the voices of everyday Americans. Hillary will establish a small-donor matching system for presidential and congressional elections to incentivize small donors to participate in elections, and encourage candidates to spend more time engaging a representative cross-section of voters.

The one thing Hillary doesn't touch on, and I wish she would, is public financing of campaigns. A matching donor system like advocates is a big step in the right direction. But getting rid of the need to ask for donations at all is far more desirable. This is something that Bernie has over Hillary.
 
Really? Between a lack of knowledge of how the American politic system functions, the speed at which it's functioned for 200 years, and ridiculous comparisons between US media and Chinese propaganda? To come in and then judge the entire country with huge holes in knowledge of how it works? That's not condescending?

I was responding to his first post, not what came later including that analogy about the media that is off. But you know what? The media is a huge problem. They are actually the people I am angriest at this election. I've never had anything against Hillary besides the fact I think she's untrustworthy. Some of her artful smears lately have been posting me off, but even still to rank who deserves my ire it's: The Media>>>>>>DNC>>>Hillary.

And no, I really don't see his posts as condescending compared to half the shit in here.
 
Umm... that's pretty damning. If his entire campaign has been built around baseless Trump-level rhetoric, that's a pretty big problem.

I'd still be happy to take him over any of the Republican candidates, though. No question.
 
Am I misreading something in this exchange:

Isn't this about the removal of MetLife's "too big to fail" designation last week? Who has had the chance to study the legal implications of that?

Yeah, now that I've reread it, this whole premise of this thread is a joke. Seems like a lot of people didn't read or understand what the question was. Me included.

Besides the fact that he did talk about possible solutions for how to break up banks elsewhere in the interview, people are extrapolating this answer to mean that he doesn't even have any ideas for how to do it.
 
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