How.
Giant Bomb: PS4.5 / PS4K is codenamed NEO, more info
- Thread starter bananafactory
- Start date
How.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Yeah, I think how PS4 NEO is received will impact how PS5 will be designed. Though Sony had also been paying close attention to N3DS given how PS4 NEO adopts a very similar model to a hardware upgrade (the best they can do if they wish to retain binary compatibility with existing games).
There's also the matter of NX, from what we've read so far from Iwata, Miyamoto etc. it'll be a scalable platform like iOS, with a unified hardware and software architecture between devices.
That might mean that new hardware will give all existing games performance benefits "for free" like the PC, iOS and Android devices do, rather than require baked oi patches.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Really weird that they went with such a small cpu bump
The cpu is already the bottleneck with the hd7850 in the ps4.
pairing it with a 380x is like pairing a 380x on pc with an old phenom II, you still end up playing everything at low framerates due to the massive cpu bottleneck
Personally I would go back to using my hd6870 (xbox one level performance) with a fast cpu over going back to having to use my old phenon II with my gtx970 (3x ps4 performance), being cpu bottlenecked sucks
The cpu is already the bottleneck with the hd7850 in the ps4.
pairing it with a 380x is like pairing a 380x on pc with an old phenom II, you still end up playing everything at low framerates due to the massive cpu bottleneck
Personally I would go back to using my hd6870 (xbox one level performance) with a fast cpu over going back to having to use my old phenon II with my gtx970 (3x ps4 performance), being cpu bottlenecked sucks
foolishoptimist
Member
Woah! Seriously? Hyrule Warriors on the 3DS doesn't play in 3D?
ninjablade
Banned
Yea people comparing this to ps3 to ps4 is laughable, ps3 was ancient tech that most games couldn't even run better then 360 which was 8 years old when ps4 came out, the ps4 was 10x more powerful and yet 360/ps3 games were made, some even very playable.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Yes and the frame rate is awful. Much worse than the New 3DS one.
Zomba13
Member
Hyrule Warriors barely plays on a normal 3DS.
A bigger pool of end users if the thing is successful. Depending on the neo mode configuration, it could just be as simple as meeting the base requirement for PS4 games and upping the resolution.
Since the CPU is getting an upgrade, games by default will likely at the very least run locked at whatever framerate PS4 is aiming at, and better quality effects/higher res because of the GPU
Malcolm9
Member
Yeah because most games run at 20 fps on the PS4......smh.
If what they announced is true it's a good thing. I was worried that if the Neo had exclusive games then it would really divide the PS4 community.
Sony are making sure the original PS4 isn't gimped, and rather than just making a "Slim" version of the PS4, this will be enhanced to give extra performance for some who want it.
The console has been out nearly three years, so a mid gen refresh is a good idea personally, as well as not fencing out any current PS4 owner on future games released.
gundamkyoukai
Member
It would since they going to be 45 million plus PS4 out there .
It's the same way devs don't only target the highest end PC users .
wapplew
Member
Same concept.
I use steam box as example because it's the closest devices that have all the perk of a console.
Yes, it give us option to get better hardware and better performance if we want. It also might take away the option to have perk of a traditional generation like exclusive that target one specific hardware or introduce new invention with new generation.
It will take away a lot of things only to give you more option and this
I hope this is the official PR line of Sony.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
If it makes a big difference to the performance of PSVR then I'll have to buy it.
Bubba_Sparks
Member
So would that mean the new PS4 would be getting equivalent of a full Tahiti GPU, without any CUs disabled ?
I guess it would, given just 3.5 Teraflops for Tahiti.
Then the specific clockspeed of the new PS4 GPU (911 MHz) brings it to about 4.1 Teraflops.
Edit: I didn't see this:
The number of CU's would put it around a 280x. Which I believe is just a rebadged 7970 Ghz edition. Certainly not Radeon 390/GeForce GTX 970 level of performance as some are claiming. For example, a 290x has around 44 CU's and still falls short of a R 390/GTX 970 in most cases.
The GPU will still be a big upgrade though! 1080p with better fidelity and framerates will be quite easy. You might even see a base PS4 game running at 30 FPS pushed up to 60 FPS on this card. Also, if older games could be patched to take advantage of the hardware they could get a nice boost. The Witcher 3 for example could see a nice increase in things like foliage density, draw distance, Shadow quality, etc and still play at a solid 30 FPS.
What you won't see is 1440p for the more demanding games, let alone 4K. Those resolutions could be achieved with simpler games, but I think some people underestimate the GPU required to run at those resolutions. For example, a GTX 970 cannot maintain 30 FPS in The Witcher 3 at 4K even with the lowest settings.
The CPU is another bottleneck to consider. My own personal experience with CPU bottlenecking comes quite recently. I have what is now an archaic Intel Core i7 860 paired with my GTX 970. I've been meaning to upgrade, but for the most part it has done me good for five years. Dark Souls III was just released, and as it happens can be CPU constrained if you have an older processor. I should be able to get 60 FPS flawless at 1080p with everything maxed, but only get about 45 FPS on average. So that is just one example of what a weaker CPU can do when paired with a more powerful GPU.
In all, based on the information we have available I expect this to provide a nice boost to visuals for new PS4 buyers. I expect this boost will take place mainly in the relm of framerate and slight fidelity increases.
Lots of multiplayer games are running at 30FPS.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Wishful thinking. Their frame rate requirements show where their priorities are.
According to the article Neo mode games need to meet or exceed original PS4 framerates. Although of course they could impose 60fps later on.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Like the n3DS and Gameboy Color, right?
Keep thinking companies care about those 45 million users and are not going to use PS4K's improved hardware to sell more games.
"We have a product for people who can't afford the NEO. It's called the PS4" -Shuhei Mattrick
/s
PS4 Tsuyoi mode is coming to PS4 after all.
Performance switching profiles were predicted in June 2015, albeit, on the same hardware.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=986408&highlight=tsuyoi
Performance switching profiles were predicted in June 2015, albeit, on the same hardware.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=986408&highlight=tsuyoi
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Yes I know. Sony lucked out when 256MB GDDR5 modules became available just in time to be used in PS4. Nobody in their right mind expected them to use 32 128MB chips, so 4GB was max they could use... and then Cerny dropped the bomb.
If the PS4 wasn't underpowered, it would costed more and it would sold less, and switch to nextgen games would be even slower than we got, and more powerful model will most likely come anyway.
gundamkyoukai
Member
You think the going to sell more games on user base that going to be very small?
They only ways this happens if is PS4K start selling at a crazy rate .
And i don't see that happening .
Omnii-chan
Member
This sounds fantastic, day one upgrade for sure. I hope they patch old games to run better or run at better frame rates.
SkylineRKR
Member
I doubt the likes of EA and Acti are going to bother with Neo mode btw.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
The framerate target will probably stay the same. But expect a more stable Framerate and better effects etc
AusRoachman
Member
I'm assuming this is purely to get better performance for vr? If so how long until your required to get a neo for your vr games to work?
Personally I think games this gen already look stunning and those devs who really focus on the hardware are getting great performance plus amazing gfx (uncharted, halo ).
So don't really see a need for a new machine yet . Either way I will be happy with my current box and playing the stunning games I'm playing now . Developers are only just working out how to maximise the power of current boxes so adding more targets is just going to delay games.
Personally I think games this gen already look stunning and those devs who really focus on the hardware are getting great performance plus amazing gfx (uncharted, halo ).
So don't really see a need for a new machine yet . Either way I will be happy with my current box and playing the stunning games I'm playing now . Developers are only just working out how to maximise the power of current boxes so adding more targets is just going to delay games.
Its not weird...they wanted zero compatibility problems very easily and a quick CPU solution. This thing is not supposed to be a generational upgrade to begin with to the point where they are switching out with all new components, its a stop gap solution to increase the gen's lifespan and satisfy some of those people complaining about the PS4's performance in games.
The upgrade to the CPU at the very least promises very stable and locked framerates of games with varying performance on PS4 because of the upclock along with better graphics, effects, IQ and res among other things.
Your not thinking clearly, there is literally no controversial statement in there. They will not allow the PS4K to run at a lesser performance metric than the PS4. So most devs might lock the FPS to the base framerate the PS4 runs at and it will be far more solid.
Its probably literally just a software configuration. "Upgrade resolution, upgrade framerate, test, ship". I don't see how taxing you think it could be.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Uhm i think the Frosbite Engine Team at DICE will probably be very happy about this. I wouldnt be shocked if they already have the specs and maybe some prototype hardware
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
You don't think DICE would be interested in this? That would be all it takes as the Frostbite engine will be integral to many EA games in the future.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Doesn't sound optional and if they going ahead with this it all the major publishers must have OK'd it.
I'm Dice would love to use the extra power on their Frostbite engine. No more 900p Battlefield and Battlefront games.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Strange choice of CPU (probably to keep cost down), although I guess the next revision could potentially only be 3 years away.
Why would it make more sense to target the PS4K, when 90% of the PS gamers have a PS4 and only 10% have a PS4K?
Calm? How? Why?
Not that I am crazy about it, but all the things that people are scared of in this scenario are still legit. Some completely predictable PR sugarcoating by Sony is not going to calm anybody down.
Bioware last week called this situation as nightmarish for developers.
And I am very interested to see how currently sloppy devs are going to handle things now with 2 versions for 1 console.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I'd suggest around the launch of PS VR.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
The next revision will be PS5.
Nightmarish? Oh please. How can it be any more 'nightmarish' than having to optimise for god knows how many PC configurations?
No, I think 95% of PS4 user base are going to see PS4K games and buy them thinking they will run the same on their PS4. Marketing magic.
gundamkyoukai
Member
DICE games on PS4k will most likely be 1080p@60fps with better effects .
No more 900p for there 60fps games.
Your post makes no sense most 3rd party games already get show off to a high level thanks to a PC version .
Or CGI trailers etc etc etc .
It might not have a big difference to performance because Sony will still be very strict on PS4 games hitting at least 60fps.
It might be more likely to have a difference to image quality - the extra power allowing better AA, or supersampling by rendering at a slightly higher resolution, or simply providing more detail on screen.
Some games might be able to get from 60->90, or 90->120, but the CPU isn't a big improvement so that might not be possible in many cases.
SpideySenses
Member
New Nintendo 3DS was pretty fucking stupid, going from black and white to colour was huge at the time so I've always considered Game Boy Colour it's own console and similar to DS>3DS.
Needless to say I agree with the person you quoted, it's stupid.
CosmicQueso
Member
Right, a guy that's been retired since 2012 and who now makes craft beer for a living. Doing great work I'm sure, but certainly not someone I expect Sony had walked through its plans.
Hopefully before Horizon & last guardian.
That is exactly why they are going to do it.