Aaronrules380
Member
Look at my other post. TP didn't require an extra peripheral that slowed it's sales. And again, pinning it on artstyle is really dumb, when by far the most divisive part of SS was its controls
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Look at my other post. TP didn't require an extra peripheral that slowed it's sales. And again, pinning it on artstyle is really dumb, when by far the most divisive part of SS was its controls
Tp is my least fav zelda game.
The game had many flaws.
Wasnt in for the art style.(huge impact for me)
Wasnt amused with the wolf gameplay. To repeative (attacking the enemies between walls) and more things which i didnt enjoy.
Collecting tears...
Training stuff at the beginning.
Repeative.
To huge large empty landscapes.
Endboss wasnt what i did wanted to see.
And more.
Anyway : The main theme was great. I know that other zelda games have the same but less of those points above. I'm also not saying its a bad game. I'm glad with the new art style from what we have seen so far for zelda u. I"m hoping that there is enough to do within those huge landscapes. The moving grass make it already less empty - aka more living world...
The game had many flaws.
Wasnt in for the art style.(huge impact for me)
Wasnt amused with the wolf gameplay. To repeative (attacking the enemies between walls) and more things which i didnt enjoy.
Collecting tears...
Training stuff at the beginning.
Repeative.
To huge large empty landscapes.
Endboss wasnt what i did wanted to see.
And more.
Anyway : The main theme was great. I know that other zelda games have the same but less of those points above. I'm also not saying its a bad game. I'm glad with the new art style from what we have seen so far for zelda u. I"m hoping that there is enough to do within those huge landscapes. The moving grass make it already less empty - aka more living world...
Wednesday at like 315 for me, 1215 AM (Tuesday night, technically Wednesday) for you if you're on the west coast IIRC.
Wii, DS and amiibo are all good. I don't think a bad name is any guarantee or necessary likelihood.
Based on Kimi-san's comments, we'll get one for sure.
LegendofLex
Member
The "extra peripheral" was included with every Wii sold after May 2010, and was selling pretty well before that. I don't see why it would have been such a deterrent to late buyers that TP would have had better tail sales five years after launch than SS did at any point after launch simply due to the peripheral.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I am central time
Aaronrules380
Member
Every *new* wii sold. I guarantee you most of the core who were buying wii's at that point were getting used systems.
Starchasing
Member
https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2016/04/24/email-nx-and-arm-practically-certain/
has this been posted?
Wordpress site
How did they find out the x86 isn't related to gaming?
They're using the anandtech story?
LegendofLex
Member
That's still tens of millions of systems sold with Wii MotionPlus on top of at least 16 million Wii MotionPlus accessories sold (with copies of Wii Sports Resort) before the peripheral was ever bundled, plus however many Wii MotionPlus units were sold on top of Wii Sports Resort (Accessory sales more than doubled Wii Sports Resort sales at launch.) Wii MotionPlus penetration seemed to be pretty good; while I'd expect it to impact sales somewhat, I wouldn't think it would cause them to basically vanish after launch especially insisting that the active userbase at that point is probably more likely to have one than not.
Besides, if people were actually interested in the game, I don't think the peripheral would stop them.
Aaronrules380
Member
You don't see how an extras $60 would deter people from buying a game? As opposed to TP, which was a $20 Nintendo Selects title?
He's a bit mistaken because there are actually three contracts, but yeah, every sign is pointing toward ARM at this point... which means we have our new made-up third-party excuse decided. :/
Seems that way.
They Would have made an excuse that the X86 CPU isn't the same as Sonys or Ms or not powerful enough or something like that just not to make any games on their platform
The Chinese joint venture is an IP licensing deal, not a semi-custom chip design. Furthermore, the deal has only been done this past quarter, so obviously wouldn't concern any of the already announced semi-custom wins (where, afaik, design work started in Q4 2014 for two of them, and Q2 2015 for the other).
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Why what happend?
LegendofLex
Member
I think if SS had the force behind it that Skyrim did (this was never going to happen given the type of game that SS was, and I'm not talking about motion controls), it'd have no problem selling better than Twilight Princess even at a higher price tag, even given that Wii was about to enter its sunset year, etc.
It simply didn't have that buzz, and Twilight Princess was the better game being sold at a better price.
I think this is true for Wii U as well to some extent. I don't think a Nintendo console should ever be priced at $350 again, but the real problem with Wii U wasn't the number per se, it was that there wasn't enough of a value-add over the $250 price tag Wii had for Wii U to succeed at that price point. That's why I really hope NX is targeting a $250 price with a vast library with mass appeal, instead of a $300-400 price targeted at core gamers.
FloweryMarston
Member
Skyward Sword is the only console zelda released since twilight princess. Super mario galaxy came in 2007 and sold around 12 million copies. new super mario bros wii came in 2009 and sold around 30 million copies. You would think that the sequel to super mario galaxy would generate a lot of interest to these 30 million possible new fans. But what happened? it sold less than smg1, at around 7.4 million copies. After this EAD tokyo tried to make 3d mario more similar to 2d mario and appeal to these fans, and while the success of the wii u undermined the potential sales of these games, super mario 3d world sold much more closely to new super mario bros u to what smg 1 and smg 2 did compared to nsmbwii. SS sold less than TP and they recognize that.
SS in my opinion is great and i think that they needed to make a zelda with motion controls considering the rage that was the wii, but they took their time and it released in a year that people were much less excited about motion controls than before. The reception to motion controls was even negative rather than positive.
Before the release of the game they even went to state that they could not go back to the past control scheme, and the new zelda would have the same controls. Shortly after the fan reception, they went back on what they said and stated that they would analyze what went right and wrong with the game. Zelda U is a direct response to that, it is an open world game and is trying to rethink the convention of the series, which fans stated that they were tired around the release of SS.
Zelda U got a loooooot of positive buzz and while the art style is cel shaded, link is adult and showed already some cool moves. It's true that i think a realistic art style resonates with NA audience more than a cel shaded one. But i think that they made the right decisions to make a beautiful game with a different style that doesn't make it look childish at all in my opinion. The art style of wind waker didn't piss off people, it was more the way it was implemented, having too link being a kid and all. So i think that they managed to strike a balance better than before now. At least for what they showed. The game is also in a much better position than SS. Zelda U will come at the end of the Wii U life but also at the start of the NX. If they play their cards well, the game will see a lot of success.
In the handheld space though Zelda is selling well and around the same amount that it always sold. in fact, even the spin-off triforce heroes is sold better than minish cap for example. MM 3d was the best selling title of the month that it released, ALBW sold really well and OOT 3d too. The remasters also are having great success on the wii u.
I think aonuma and his team listen really carefully to what people want of the series and they always try to respond to that in the title that they are working on. They managed to make the series sell really well. Zelda will never face the fate of metroid or f-zero, where you wouldn't see any title of the series for a long time. It has a dedicated producer and it consistently sells well.
the final point is: give me zelda u now ;;
SS in my opinion is great and i think that they needed to make a zelda with motion controls considering the rage that was the wii, but they took their time and it released in a year that people were much less excited about motion controls than before. The reception to motion controls was even negative rather than positive.
Before the release of the game they even went to state that they could not go back to the past control scheme, and the new zelda would have the same controls. Shortly after the fan reception, they went back on what they said and stated that they would analyze what went right and wrong with the game. Zelda U is a direct response to that, it is an open world game and is trying to rethink the convention of the series, which fans stated that they were tired around the release of SS.
Zelda U got a loooooot of positive buzz and while the art style is cel shaded, link is adult and showed already some cool moves. It's true that i think a realistic art style resonates with NA audience more than a cel shaded one. But i think that they made the right decisions to make a beautiful game with a different style that doesn't make it look childish at all in my opinion. The art style of wind waker didn't piss off people, it was more the way it was implemented, having too link being a kid and all. So i think that they managed to strike a balance better than before now. At least for what they showed. The game is also in a much better position than SS. Zelda U will come at the end of the Wii U life but also at the start of the NX. If they play their cards well, the game will see a lot of success.
In the handheld space though Zelda is selling well and around the same amount that it always sold. in fact, even the spin-off triforce heroes is sold better than minish cap for example. MM 3d was the best selling title of the month that it released, ALBW sold really well and OOT 3d too. The remasters also are having great success on the wii u.
I think aonuma and his team listen really carefully to what people want of the series and they always try to respond to that in the title that they are working on. They managed to make the series sell really well. Zelda will never face the fate of metroid or f-zero, where you wouldn't see any title of the series for a long time. It has a dedicated producer and it consistently sells well.
the final point is: give me zelda u now ;;
It really isn't debatable that the cell shading art style isn't as appealing as a realistic one in the West. NoA has said it. Aonuma has said it.
Any other reasons for why SS sold *significantly* worse than TP is just conjecture, unless you have some detailed study that shows otherwise. The simplest explanation is the art style.
I'm sure other factors contributed but it also had some things for it that TP didn't. Like a much higher install base. It's not like those core gamers sold off their Wii. They still had them and could have dusted them off to play SS if it appealed to them (that's what I did).
Any other reasons for why SS sold *significantly* worse than TP is just conjecture, unless you have some detailed study that shows otherwise. The simplest explanation is the art style.
I'm sure other factors contributed but it also had some things for it that TP didn't. Like a much higher install base. It's not like those core gamers sold off their Wii. They still had them and could have dusted them off to play SS if it appealed to them (that's what I did).
Aaronrules380
Member
No the simplest explanation is motion controls
LegendofLex
Member
I'd go further and say the simplest explanation is that it wasn't as appealing.
That encompasses everything from the art style to the gameplay style to the less open world to the content in that world to the central concept to the story. I literally cannot think of a single thing going on in SS that I could point to and say, "yeah, the average person probably thinks it was more exciting than TP in this department."
There isn't an inverse relationship between sales and the presence of motion controls, though.
The guy did some digging & found a tech announcement from last week concerning the Chinese x86 server build from AMD. The other x86 build is most likely for the PS4K.
I doubt that the art style would have done major damage to Skyward Sword's sales. If anything, the Wii was on a decline at the time of Skyward Sword's release.
Schnozberry
Member
See Thraktor's post above. The Chinese joint venture is not a semi-custom design win.
You are correct on Skyward Sword. Wii Software sales had plummeted drastically at the end. The Wii U's reveal with the Zelda Demo six months prior to the release of Skyward Sword probably didn't help either.
"Herp derp I can't port this to ARM even though this engine has full ARM support"
I doubt that the CPU will be slower than PS4's or even XBone's. They'd also want to avoid saying something that's too easy to call them out on, and nobody would buy that a newer version of the same core is incompatible. They'd come up with a better excuse than those if it's x86, like "I don't want to optimize for it because PS4k is the lead platform and porting over the base PS4 version doesn't work because reasons."
Well, that's good to know.
By the way, what happened to all of the GAF insiders I heard about? Did they all go into hiding this year?
Correlation does not equal causation.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Skyrim was in HD, even if there was a skyrim on Wii wouldnt of sold as much as the HD twins versions. Even though Wii had a larger install base
DeployThatPizza
Member
A lot of them got banned after the fake NX controllers thread. Many "insiders" claimed the controllers were real and got themselves banned. Some other new insiders have come out, but their info has been proven false. Also, things seems to be tighter this time. Nintendo doesn't want people leaking NX stuff.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
There really is no real Nintendo insiders on GAF. All of the ones we had got banned for lying apparently. 10K flew close to the sun but he wasnt lying just bad sources.
Angry Chair
Member
I've seen this quoted multiple times saying how everything it says is correct and that's not even close to being true. Zelda stopped being inspired by western fantasy not long after it was created. Making it more western will get the series more sales (it could also lose sales if it becomes to homogenous with the industry) but it's not going to make them better nor will it result in them coming faster. The whole thing about leading the industry again is just idealistic, A-grade bullshit and only makes sense if you are a fan of dick-measuring contests. Western studios may have found success on the backs of Zelda 1 and OoT but they don't care about the series anymore because they've forged their own paths. Even if Zelda U/NX "perfects" open-world gaming, they will take little from it if they take anything at all. If you really want Zelda to be the biggest franchise again, you should be advocating they turn it into the fantasy answer to The Division and Destiny.
To make this post semi-relevant to the thread, I don't expect much from these briefings NX-wise; a name and confirmation it's coming this year is the most we will get. I'm more interested in what they say about their mobile plans to be honest.
So you're saying that Zelda U's art style was a mistake?
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Please continue to PREACH! to these clowns.
GustyGardens
Banned
So, I took the leap and reached out to one of my sources in hope that she could shed some light on the NX. She works for a pretty big studio and I trust her, but treat this like a rumor. Anyway, she says that the NX will for sure play games of some sort. She also claims that some games will have an online component. Again, this is just a rumor. I'll do my best to verify this with others.
Finally we're getting something. You should definitely ask if these games can be played with a controller, it's a major concern of mine; not ready for min-only controls, honestly.
Nintendo Game Platform
FloweryMarston
Member
nintendo is doomed if this is true
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Ask if the new Zelda is still cell shaded. They might be losing out on sales if this is the case.
Milly Osworth
Member
Nintendo Entertainment System NES would work well.
reelbigtink
Member
It's going to be called the Nintendo IN, NIN for short, and Trent Reznor is writing the UI music.
God Dayumm
Banned
LOL, bullshit
DownGrader
Member
Fun fact of the day: CD module for PC Engine (Turbografx-16 for us Westerners) was called CD-ROM², which was pronounced as 'CD-ROM-ROM."
Is the case made of plastic or bacon?
Spirit Icana
Member
Twilight Princess sold a million on the completely dead GameCube, which had a much smaller install base than the Wii had at the end of it's life. Wii was still selling some hardware when SS came out. Dying maybe, but hardly dead. Where as PS3 and Xbox 360 were coming back to life thanks to games like Minecraft (block graphics in HD lol) and Skyrim (realistic fantasy) among other titles.
I remember when Morgann Webb complained about SS being stale and that it should be more like Uncharted. Many flamed her for that comment, but simply read between the lines and it's clear Zelda was losing older people to other, more edgier games, because of its kid friendly, non-intense tone, and SS pushes that narrative further with cartoon characters flying on cartoon birds.
There was incredible excitement for TP before it was even a Wii game. It was originally suppose to be GameCube's last great exclusive.
TP had the job of selling Wii's. SS had the benefit of sold Wii's and sold Wii Motion Plus', thx to Wii Sports Resort driving an install base for that controller. SS was simply a game the masses didn't want. Only the core wanted it. The "casuals" that bought TP moved on to other things like 360 and Skyrim. The expanded audience and kids were looking at kinect, minecraft, or moving on from gaming. Wii still had the most women though, and that probably helped titles like Just Dance. The kids were moving to 360, as Skylanders started to show.
Artstyle plays a role in setting a tone, just like music, dialogue, etc. Most people recognize Zelda from the Ocarina of Time, which had dark atmospheric dungeon tunes, some jumping moments like the crawlers and Skulltulla's in the Shadow and Forest Temples, and even red blood if you got the gold cartridge. TP looked like a natural evolution of OoT. SS and all the cel-shaded Zelda games appear as evolutions of the Wind Waker, which was highly panned by fans many years ago for turning Zelda into a "kids game" and turning one of Nintendo's few "mature" titles into another Mario/Pokemon/Kirby cute and friendly kids franchise.
How many of those folks play Zelda anymore is a good question. I imagine those who don't like Zelda's current direction don't talk about it anymore and have moved on. Those who still love the series, and have played them all with intent to play more, might hold MM and WW to high esteem.
Based on sales, most people who have played TP, have never played MM or WW so many simply can't have standards based on those two games. TP's audience, at large, was thanks to either new people playing Zelda for the first time, and/or a large number of OoT's audience coming back to play Zelda once again.
Now, to bring this to topic about NX. I hate to say it, but Studio Ghibli is not that mainstream. Not to blockbuster level, at any rate. I say the probability of Final Fantasy XV outperforming Zelda NX is high, based on presentation and not just the fact that PS4 is already a solid hit. FF XV will help keep the PS4 running. Will Zelda NX help NX get off the ground? I doubt it, unless the tone shifts to something more akin to LoTR/OoT/TP's reveal trailer, or some kinda of breakthrough elsewhere.
I'd argue NX could very well be a hit, and Zelda NX could very well sell no better than SS did, while having NX's whole life span to sell.
Summary: Masses wanted TP. Masses didn't care much for SS. Masses don't care much for Zelda U/NX at this time.
I still think Zelda has potential to grow bigger than TP/OoT though. If it ever will remains to be seen.
I remember when Morgann Webb complained about SS being stale and that it should be more like Uncharted. Many flamed her for that comment, but simply read between the lines and it's clear Zelda was losing older people to other, more edgier games, because of its kid friendly, non-intense tone, and SS pushes that narrative further with cartoon characters flying on cartoon birds.
There was incredible excitement for TP before it was even a Wii game. It was originally suppose to be GameCube's last great exclusive.
TP had the job of selling Wii's. SS had the benefit of sold Wii's and sold Wii Motion Plus', thx to Wii Sports Resort driving an install base for that controller. SS was simply a game the masses didn't want. Only the core wanted it. The "casuals" that bought TP moved on to other things like 360 and Skyrim. The expanded audience and kids were looking at kinect, minecraft, or moving on from gaming. Wii still had the most women though, and that probably helped titles like Just Dance. The kids were moving to 360, as Skylanders started to show.
Artstyle plays a role in setting a tone, just like music, dialogue, etc. Most people recognize Zelda from the Ocarina of Time, which had dark atmospheric dungeon tunes, some jumping moments like the crawlers and Skulltulla's in the Shadow and Forest Temples, and even red blood if you got the gold cartridge. TP looked like a natural evolution of OoT. SS and all the cel-shaded Zelda games appear as evolutions of the Wind Waker, which was highly panned by fans many years ago for turning Zelda into a "kids game" and turning one of Nintendo's few "mature" titles into another Mario/Pokemon/Kirby cute and friendly kids franchise.
How many of those folks play Zelda anymore is a good question. I imagine those who don't like Zelda's current direction don't talk about it anymore and have moved on. Those who still love the series, and have played them all with intent to play more, might hold MM and WW to high esteem.
Based on sales, most people who have played TP, have never played MM or WW so many simply can't have standards based on those two games. TP's audience, at large, was thanks to either new people playing Zelda for the first time, and/or a large number of OoT's audience coming back to play Zelda once again.
Now, to bring this to topic about NX. I hate to say it, but Studio Ghibli is not that mainstream. Not to blockbuster level, at any rate. I say the probability of Final Fantasy XV outperforming Zelda NX is high, based on presentation and not just the fact that PS4 is already a solid hit. FF XV will help keep the PS4 running. Will Zelda NX help NX get off the ground? I doubt it, unless the tone shifts to something more akin to LoTR/OoT/TP's reveal trailer, or some kinda of breakthrough elsewhere.
I'd argue NX could very well be a hit, and Zelda NX could very well sell no better than SS did, while having NX's whole life span to sell.
Summary: Masses wanted TP. Masses didn't care much for SS. Masses don't care much for Zelda U/NX at this time.
I still think Zelda has potential to grow bigger than TP/OoT though. If it ever will remains to be seen.
Father_Brain
Banned
My inside source told me it's the next-gen Nintendo Cereal System, so pretty sure you're full of it.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
That's lazier than a band calling their new album self-titled.
Great... Looks like a lot of franchises will get milked on an annual basis.
Based on?
Duh, but there is more data than just sales data that suggests cell shaded is less appealing than a realistic style in the West.
I'm not really sure why people want to debate this. We aren't saying it is a better style. Just that the West likes it better. Is this really surprising?
Schnozberry
Member
An exhaustive analysis of his personal opinion.
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