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[Lemondish]

Well firstly, Tomb Raider got the exact same criticism. Secondly, I haven't played Quantum Break so I personally can't comment. What I've seen of it though is that it goes for a much darker, serious tone than Uncharted. Like you said, it takes itself seriously, and whilst UC definitely takes itself seriously there are comedic and light-hearted elements.

Personally I can look past Drake's killings because the character is so well done, and it's a bi-product of its TPS and Indiana Jones roots. Like I've said before, I don't agree with Jim's opinion, but he holds it because he personally cannot look over the fact that Drake kills so many people in the game/s.

Drake doesn't do any of that. The player does. The player is the one who kills.

Jim just can't come to terms with his own inner monster and instead blames Nathan Drake, a puppet who uses humour to combat the dark deeds Jim makes him do. Nate finds solace in his close relationships and they help him overcome this hellish existence. He thanks Straley for setting a line in the sand that Jim cannot cross, though he has tried many times to murder Nate's family.

Jim would have us believe in his opinion because it absolves him of any wrongdoing. But we know better.

We know Jim is the true monster here.

 

[Yurikerr]

Well firstly, Tomb Raider got the exact same criticism. Secondly, I haven't played Quantum Break so I personally can't comment. What I've seen of it though is that it goes for a much darker, serious tone than Uncharted. Like you said, it takes itself seriously, and whilst UC definitely takes itself seriously there are comedic and light-hearted elements.

Personally I can look past Drake's killings because the character is so well done, and it's a bi-product of its TPS and Indiana Jones roots. Like I've said before, I don't agree with Jim's opinion, but he holds it because he personally cannot look over the fact that Drake kills so many people in the game/s.

But this is what i don't understand...So now every game that has a character killing enemies need to be dark? Uncharted is light-hearted and there's banter and jokes, but it's not like Nate kills some guys and then say to Sully: "Look, i smoked another fool".

I don't know if his behavior is all that conflicting, he's a treasure hunter who faces some bad guys and hired mercenaries. It's kind obvious that he's going to need some bullets to accomplish the mission.

It looks like in order for a game not being dissonant you have to choose one of the options below:

A) Have a bland protagonist who doesn't have motivations, just pull the trigger
B) Kill anything that's not human. It can be aliens, zombies, monsters, robots
C) The protagonist being a outright asshole (like Kratos)

It's kind of funny as people claim for more interesting and developed characters, but get mad when they aren't one dimensional.

 

[ScaryShark]

That's a very simplified objective. But even then, let's go with it.

Drake doesn't shoot people because they are competition. He is shooting at them because they will kill him. The great thing about video games is you get to experiment and try again. I'm sure that anyone you don't kill in the game (but can), will Kill you if you walk up to them or let them see you.

That being said, he's walking in with a gun so he knows what he's in for. At worst you can say that in his pursuit of treasure, he doesn't hesitate to put himself in a position where people will try and kill him and he will have to kill them first if they do.

This has always been my response to the whole argument. How is he a 'serial killer' if these people would always shoot and kill him when he showed up at the same spot? It'd be a lot different if Nate could just waltz in to some ancient tomb and they wouldn't engage unless he did.

 

[Rozart]

what meltdowns?

i haven't been that active in this thread it's a busy day at work

Bait posts mostly tbh.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Jim & IGN reviews seem so arbitrary.

Let's just throw some rando numbers so we can be different from the club, even though it's better than x, y, z game that we assigned higher numbers to..

lol.

Once again, reviews are only the "subjective reflections of the author" when its some other game and not when its a game you're riding the hype train for.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

What evidence do you have that some of the posts are not genuine? I mean, if you're literally going to label people stupid for taking all of the posts at face value, then I can only assume you've some actual, tangible data to back up your needlessly condescending stance and not a hand-wavey "lol come on guys nobody actually thinks like that like omg".

The clear sarcasm of many of the posts? I mean, it doesn't take a degree in mind reading to read many of the posts, knowing the posters, and figure out than many are just taking the piss. I'm not saying none of them are real. Many are. A bunch are people having a laugh though. I know I do it in review threads too, parodying stupid posters' outrage over reviews.

I mean are you really so stupid that you only take things you read at face value? Because if that's the case, I can't help you.

 

[msdstc]

That's a very simplified objective. But even then, let's go with it.

Drake doesn't shoot people because they are competition. He is shooting at them because they will kill him. The great thing about video games is you get to experiment and try again. I'm sure that anyone you don't kill in the game (but can), will Kill you if you walk up to them or let them see you.

That being said, he's walking in with a gun so he knows what he's in for. At worst you can say that in his pursuit of treasure, he doesn't hesitate to put himself in a position where people will try and kill him and he will have to kill them first if they do.

Like I said I think the argument is ridiculous and I agree with your point he's doing it to defend himself. That being said the core motive is that he wants the treasure and he knows he will have to murder people along the way to get it. Its a dumb argument, but I myself have struggled to pin down direct comparisons. Lara croft is the closest for sure from what I've seen, but it was more of a revenge story in the past.

 

[The Artisan]

OK explain then. This makes 0 sense. I asked if the guy had his copy yet.

maybe his thought process was "that look on nathan's face is like, damn I wish I had that!"

Bait posts mostly tbh.

not cool not cool

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Can't wait!

 

[gai_shain]

Did you even read the post I was quoting?

I have no idea who this Jim guy is. Why should his opinion matter so much to so many people. Why is he getting riled up and tweeting about other people getting riled up? I'm not seeing any other reviewers attacking the "rabid fanboys" in tweets. Dude needs to get out the business of he can't hack a bit of fanboyism.

Why should the opinion of any review site matter to so many people?

 

[Rozart]

This has always been my response to the whole argument. How is he a 'serial killer' if these people would always shoot and kill him when he showed up at the same spot? It'd be a lot different if Nate could just waltz in to some ancient tomb and they wouldn't engage unless he did.

Maybe the stealth sequence with the security guards in UC2? He doesn't kill the guards though, I don't think.

 

[RespectThySole]

Jim & IGN reviews seem so arbitrary.

Let's just throw some rando numbers so we can be different from the club, even though it's better than x, y, z game that we assigned higher numbers to..

lol.

Lol

 

[JaseC]

The clear sarcasm of many of the posts? I mean, it doesn't take a degree in mind reading to read many of the posts, knowing the posters, and figure out than many are just taking the piss. I'm not saying none of them are real. Many are. A bunch are people having a laugh though. I know I do it in review threads too, parodying stupid posters' outrage over reviews.

What makes the sarcasm "clear"? You cite "knowing the posters" as appropriate data, but can you provide examples of the posts that are misaligned with how the user actually felt about the game prior to their playing it? Show your working. It's certainly very possible that at least one of the posters jumped on the embarrassing bandwagon purely for the sake of their own amusement, but there's a difference between "It's likely that some of the posts are not genuine" and "Some of the posts are absolutely and unequivocally not genuine and you're a dope if you believe otherwise".

 

[sems4arsenal]

Pre-ordered already, usually street release is broken here so anyday now.

 

[The Artisan]

Can't wait!

Spoiler

Drake can't wait to play Drake

 

[Lemondish]

Once again, reviews are only the "subjective reflections of the author" when its some other game and not when its a game you're riding the hype train for.

Well, for IGN it feels more like the subjective reflections of the author's mood that day with no consistency in scoring or relationship to previously established opinions.

 

[Alienous]

But this is what i don't understand...So now every game that has a character killing enemies need to be dark? Uncharted is light-hearted and there's banter and jokes, but it's not like Nate kills some guys and then say to Sully: "Look, i smoked another fool".

I don't know if his behavior is all that conflicting, he's a treasure hunter who faces some bad guys and hired mercenaries. It's kind obvious that he's going to need some bullets to accomplish the mission.

It looks like in order for a game not being dissonant you have to choose one of the options below:

A) Have a bland protagonist who doesn't have motivations, just press the trigger
B) Kill anything that's not human. It can be aliens, zombies, monsters, robots
C) The protagonist being a outright asshole (like Kratos)

It's kind of funny as people claim for more interesting and developed characters, but get mad when they aren't one dimensional.

Or you could have a well-written character for whom the gameplay sections don't conflict with the narrative. And Naughty Dog has done that with Joel (although I suppose you'd just label him an "outright asshole").

But it really is something that should be discussed in its own thread.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I think any reviewer that says there's no innovation in a game should have to qualify that statement with an example of what innovations they'd include. As it stands it comes over in the same way sites were talking about 'potential' with Kinect but never once mentioned what that 'potential' could be. I buy Uncharted, RAC, Souls or GOW because I like the way they play. Change that and I will no longer like to play them, improve on the core mechanics and I'll play them more often. ND get this.

 

[Hedrush]

Why should the opinion of any review site matter to so many people?

Thats a very good point. Although other review sites aren't attacking their readership by calling them "shitheads" be they fanboys or not.

 

[Plum]

Drake doesn't do any of that. The player does. The player is the one who kills.

Jim just can't come to terms with his own inner monster and instead blames Nathan Drake, a puppet who uses humour to combat the dark deeds Jim makes him do. Nate finds solace in his close relationships and they help him overcome this hellish existence. Jim would have us believe in his opinion because it absolves him of any wrongdoing. But we know better.

We knew Jim is the true monster here.

So, by playing UC4, I am unwittingly murdering hundreds, if not thousands, of people by my own hand? Christ, what have we become!

But this is what i don't understand...So now every game that has a character killing enemies need to be dark? Uncharted is light-hearted and there's banter and jokes, but it's not like Nate kills some guys and then say to Sully: "Look, i smoked another fool".

I don't know if his behavior is all that conflicting, he's a treasure hunter who faces some bad guys and hired mercenaries. It's kind obvious that he's going to need some bullets to accomplish the mission.

It looks like in order for a game not being dissonant you have to choose one of the options below:

A) Have a bland protagonist who doesn't have motivations, just press the trigger
B) Kill anything that's not human. It can be aliens, zombies, monsters, robots
C) The protagonist being a outright asshole (like Kratos)

It's kind of funny as people claim for more interesting and developed characters, but get mad when they aren't one dimensional.

What is it with people telling me my own opinion today

I agree, although he does quip a lot during battle, not to an "I smoked that fool" extent though. Ludonarrative dissonance is a legitimate problem in gaming, but frankly it's a problem that's very easy to look over. To "fix" it in the UC series you'd have to completely overhaul the gameplay, make it more Metal Gear Solid and less Gears of War. If you did that you'd of course ruin a lot of what makes UC fun in the first place. It's like being stuck between a rock (changing UC's core gameplay) and a very soft, not that detrimental place (ludonarrative dissonance).

 

[orthodoxy1095]

This has always been my response to the whole argument. How is he a 'serial killer' if these people would always shoot and kill him when he showed up at the same spot? It'd be a lot different if Nate could just waltz in to some ancient tomb and they wouldn't engage unless he did.

I think the more important issue that many people raise isn't that he kills. Yes, Drake very often kills out of necessity. Fine.

I think the weird issue is that we have a game where the protagonist, for argument's sake, out of necessity kills people but then doesn't react to it. It's a weird limitation of the medium at times that we have to kill dozens of people but we never have to think about what we're doing. Like people say, Drake just mows people down making jokes.

That's one thing I remember thinking was cool about that one ROTR teaser where she was with that psychologist type person. Actually trying to think about how all the adventuring and trauma and killing has an effect on the protagonist.

That's not to say that every game has to do it. But it's something some more games could do.

 

[Always-honest]

Holy shit... It's about Drake being a mass murderer again. Haha, wtf?!

 

[AHA-Lambda]

So people are getting mad at Jim for his review being equal to QB?
He tweets about people being mad about it, and then people get mad some more?

 

[Ozium]

Jim & IGN reviews seem so arbitrary.

Let's just throw some rando numbers so we can be different from the club, even though it's better than x, y, z game that we assigned higher numbers to..

lol.

lol.

 

[Memento]

This gif lmao

 

[Elfstruck]

Holy shit... It's about Drake being a mass murderer again. Haha, wtf?!

Ahahaha, we gone full circle.

 

[Loudninja]

Holy shit... It's about Drake being a mass murderer again. Haha, wtf?!

Always bro always.

 

[redflamingolingo]

Do you already have your copy of uc4?

Yea, got it three days ago.

 

[antitrop]

Or you could have a well-written character for whom the gameplay sections don't conflict with the narrative. And Naughty Dog has done it with Joel (although I suppose you'd just label him an "outright asshole").

I think the scene where Joel tortures two guys for information and then murders them anyway says pretty much everything about his character that needs to be said.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Jim & IGN reviews seem so arbitrary.

Let's just throw some rando numbers so we can be different from the club, even though it's better than x, y, z game that we assigned higher numbers to..

lol.

the mental gymnastics people go to...

or maybe, just maybe, those are their actual opinions?

 

[pixellated_man]

Thanks for the replies people.
Can see some people not taking the rave reviews too well though, haha. As some predicted there seems to be more people disappointed by the lack of actual meltdowns than there's actual meltdowns, lol. Don't worry guys there's still the 'last Guardian' to pin your hopes for an entertaining thread.

Pathetic really.

 

[gai_shain]

Thats a very good point. Although other review sites aren't attacking their readership by calling them "shitheads" be they fanboys or not.

Well yeah other reviewers are hired and they certainly wont do anything that might get them in trouble, fired or whatever.
Im not saying they would say stuff like this if this wasnt the case but I seriously doubt they are sitting there thinking, "yeah I deserve to be insulted".

 

[TheOfficeMut]

I think any reviewer that says there's no innovation in a game should have to qualify that statement with an example of what innovations they'd include. As it stands it comes over in the same way sites were talking about 'potential' with Kinect but never once mentioned what that 'potential' could be. I buy Uncharted, RAC, Souls or GOW because I like the way they play. Change that and I will no longer like to play them.

People who say they are looking for innovation are looking for something they can't imagine yet, so I can understand why the criticism "lacking innovation" is so ambiguous because the reviewers themselves don't know what it is until it happens, in which case the issue of innovation shouldn't be brought up because if such an innovative mechanism doesn't exist yet, then you shouldn't judge a product based on hypotheticals, especially when they haven't been thought of. Judge the merits as they currently exist.

 

[Hedrush]

When does the preload go live on PSN? I believe the game is over 50gb and that could take me a while to get

 

[Elfstruck]

the mental gymnastics people go to...

or maybe, just maybe, those are their actual opinions?

Well, you are actually replying to the poster's opinion too

 

[ScaryShark]

Maybe the stealth sequence with the security guards in UC2? He doesn't kill the guards though, I don't think.

They don't. Game even makes a point to show that he doesn't.

I also forgot to add that Nate ends up stopping people who are unleashing ancient powers/plagues/curses in the end from being released on the world. It's a calling card of the series at this point. His journey starts selfish and ends up being selfless and for the greater good.

 

[brau]

When does the preload go live on PSN? I believe the game is over 50gb and that could take me a while to get

Is there gonna be a preload?

 

[orochi91]

Holy shit... It's about Drake being a mass murderer again. Haha, wtf?!

Ludonarrative dissonance will forever haunt this franchise.

XD

 

[HooYaH]

When does the preload go live on PSN? I believe the game is over 50gb and that could take me a while to get

Probably Sunday.

 

[sheepishlord]

reading this thread and seeing all these scores..... can't wait to play this.

 

[icespide]

Batman v Superman review thread will never be topped. We ascended to a whole nother plane of existence in that one. Truly the GOAT review thread.

that one was nice because it was mainly people just goofing off and posting crazy RT comparisons. there weren't really a lot of meltdowns or insults being thrown around

 

[ta155]

Don't read the Empire review, basically tells you what happens in the game's first hour. Reviewers can be real jerks.

 

[Shambala]

When does the preload go live on PSN? I believe the game is over 50gb and that could take me a while to get

Mines said May 7th

 

[generic_username]

That's a very simplified objective. But even then, let's go with it.

Drake doesn't shoot people because they are competition. He is shooting at them because they will kill him. The great thing about video games is you get to experiment and try again. I'm sure that anyone you don't kill in the game (but can), will Kill you if you walk up to them or let them see you.

That being said, he's walking in with a gun so he knows what he's in for. At worst you can say that in his pursuit of treasure, he doesn't hesitate to put himself in a position where people will try and kill him and he will have to kill them first if they do.

So like Indiana Jones and Han Solo?

 

[Loudninja]

Don't read the Empire review, basically tells you what happens in the game's first hour. Reviewers can be real jerks.

I would not read any reviews actually.

 

[Hedrush]

Is there gonna be a preload?

I hope so.

Probably Sunday.

Sunday would be ideal.

Mines said May 7th

That would be even better

 

[Plum]

Ludonarrative dissonance will forever haunt this franchise.

XD

Much like how the ghosts of Nathan Drake's victims will always haunt him! Just you watch, Nathan Drake's Mansion where he has to kill them all over again coming soon.

 

[Servbot24]

Jim & IGN reviews seem so arbitrary.

Let's just throw some rando numbers so we can be different from the club, even though it's better than x, y, z game that we assigned higher numbers to..

lol.

Scores are not formulas. They may reflect how someone feels at a particular time. As they should. The goal is not to objectively define the game, but gain new perspectives on the game.

 

[Acquiescence]

What evidence do you have that some of the posts are not genuine? I mean, if you're literally going to label people stupid for taking all of the posts at face value, then I can only assume you've some actual, tangible data to back up your needlessly condescending stance and not a hand-wavey "lol come on guys nobody actually thinks like that like omg".

I wrote a little something a couple of days ago about how I, who features in that post more than anyone, was misrepresented two out of three times in the "wall of shame." If that was just my own personal case then yes, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there were others there who were not being wholly serious in their posts.

 

[Yurikerr]

Or you could have a well-written character for whom the gameplay sections don't conflict with the narrative. And Naughty Dog has done it with Joel (although I suppose you'd just label him an "outright asshole").

Seriously, i can't see where the gameplay sections conflict with the cutscene Drake.

What he does that is so conflicting?

And yes, i think Joel is an asshole.

Spoiler

But he's a product of the environment that he lives now and things that happened to him. You can see at the start of the game that he's not a maniac. He's an overprotective adult.

It's difficult to use The Last Of Us as a example, as it's IMO the pinnacle of narrative games, and it's a new IP. ND had all the past Uncharted experience when they started working on TLOU. It's easier to make something "right" when you have a clean slate.

So, by playing UC4, I am unwittingly murdering hundreds, if not thousands, of people by my own hand? Christ, what have we become!

What is it with people telling me my own opinion today

I agree, although he does quip a lot during battle, not to an "I smoked that fool" extent though. Ludonarrative dissonance is a legitimate problem in gaming, but frankly it's a problem that's very easy to look over. To "fix" it in the UC series you'd have to completely overhaul the gameplay, make it more Metal Gear Solid and less Gears of War. If you did that you'd of course ruin a lot of what makes UC fun in the first place. It's like being stuck between a rock (changing UC's core gameplay) and a very soft, not that detrimental place (ludonarrative dissonance).

It wasn't directed at you, sorry! =]

It's just something that i wanted to post before the craziness of the Jim Sterling tweet.

Yeah, he quips like "Wow, that was close" and "We got lucky this time". I, personally, don't see this as a some kind of mass murderer trait.