X-Men Apocalypse Review Thread

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Jorok Goldblade said:
Fox's last Marvel film was Fant4stic, and there next one is a Wolverine solo film which have historically never been good. Deadpool was an accidental success on the studio's part (not accidental on the director/crew's part, but the studio didn't think it was worth making until someone went behind their backs and leaked footage to fans)

Deadpool's going to keep it in Fox's hands at least until Wolverine 3 and Gambit bomb, and will probably give Fox some leverage when they do strike a shared custody deal with Marvel, but they can't keep throwing good money after bad if they're batting average is going to keep declining.
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The x men films make them a lot of money and dead pool is getting a sequel.
So yea x men ain't going anywhere
 
ElBoxyBrown said:
Believe in Bobby's word.
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Bobby's_World_Promotional_Poster,_Blue.gif
 
Jorok Goldblade said:
Fox's last Marvel film was Fant4stic, and there next one is a Wolverine solo film which have historically never been good. Deadpool was an accidental success on the studio's part (not accidental on the director/crew's part, but the studio didn't think it was worth making until someone went behind their backs and leaked footage to fans)

Deadpool's going to keep it in Fox's hands at least until Wolverine 3 and Gambit bomb, and will probably give Fox some leverage when they do strike a shared custody deal with Marvel, but they can't keep throwing good money after bad if they're batting average is going to keep declining.
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Uh, both critic and anecdotal consensus point to 'The Wolverine' being considered a good movie.

Origins was garbage as we all know. So that is 1:1.
 
Oh, so the trailers were accurate after all.

Interested to see if I like this better than BvS, which was better than I expected, as in more enjoyable than Man of Steel.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
I don't think it's bad.

I'm also pretty confident in saying your win-win scenario is more like wish-wish, because that shit is never going back to Marvel. Not after Deadpool.

(not before, either)
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I'd like to introduce you to a hit trilogy called spiderman...

Shit does good, and then it doesn't. If they keep releasing bad xmen movie and the audience suffers because of that, they'll cut a deal.

Deadpool, an R rated franchise, can't keep the whole x-men boat afloat itself for a sustained period if they continue to falter with the main franchise.

Not saying that's GOING to happen, but just clarifying my statement.
 
NimbusD said:
I'd like to introduce you to a hit trilogy called spiderman...

Shit does good, and then it doesn't. If they keep releasing bad xmen movie and the audience suffers because of that, they'll cut a deal.

Deadpool, an R rated franchise, can't keep the whole x-men boat afloat itself for a sustained period if they continue to falter with the main franchise.

Not saying that's GOING to happen, but just clarifying my statement.
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F4 bombed so hard it left crater and Fox is still not giving up the property.
BLACKLAC said:
If people didn't know which studio it came from most people would probably guess Marvel Studios.
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It has X-Men characters and audiences know, X-Men = Fox.
 
I was afraid of this. They have kept escalating every X-Men movie to the nth degree. World ending, adding 20 or so mutants because yeah let's do it like the Avengers or whatever. I mean, I get that it's the most logical thing to do, but it really seems like with each successive movie each character has less and less room to breath.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
You guys feared some pretty fearful shit, so I dunno.

I wasn't fond of it, really. She's the catalyst/conduit by which a lot of what happens in the movie gets moving, but she's not the main character by any stretch. She's kinda like Wolverine in Days of Future Past that way.

But she really is turning in some half-ass Katniss. Shit is lazy. I don't know that it's bad. But it's not really doing anything, either.
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Lawrence's Katniss in Mockingjay was already half-ass Katniss, Bobby. So this is like quarter-ass Katniss?
 
Well that sucks. It's been looking like shit from the trailers though so not really surprising. Will see with and open mind but I'm kinda sick of these young whipersnapper X-Men. Ditch them and bring back the old folks please.
 
Jorok Goldblade said:
Fox's last Marvel film was Fant4stic, and there next one is a Wolverine solo film which have historically never been good. Deadpool was an accidental success on the studio's part (not accidental on the director/crew's part, but the studio didn't think it was worth making until someone went behind their backs and leaked footage to fans)

Deadpool's going to keep it in Fox's hands at least until Wolverine 3 and Gambit bomb, and will probably give Fox some leverage when they do strike a shared custody deal with Marvel, but they can't keep throwing good money after bad if they're batting average is going to keep declining.
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The Wolverine was good until the last part. Better than Iron Man 2, 3, and Thor 2.
 
guek said:
I'll try to answer as best as I can.

I don't think Singer's X-men movies are completely bereft of what's core to the comics but there are definitely areas where they are sorely lacking - not as films but as an adaptation. Singer gets a lot of stuff right though. His casting is usually pretty good, he incorporates franchise staples like Cerebro and the school very well, everyone's powers work as they should more or less, he keeps the central conflict on point, and he understands Xavier and Magneto. That last point is probably his greatest strength in terms of adapting the source material.

Where he falls short though are some of the more intimate aspects of the X-men. While all the pieces are there, most of the relationships are a superficial facsimile at best, especially in his first two movies. That's because the first two movies use Logan as the POV character and primary protagonist without ever really establishing his role among the X-men. He's still an outsider in X1 and X2, a loner who plays by his own rules. What Singer fails to establish is a sense of family and belonging the X-men are meant to represent. Logan never really becomes part of that family in either of the first X-men movies. This would be fine if Logan weren't the center point to both those films but unfortunately that's how they're constructed. The result is this constant outside looking in perspective which makes the sense of teamwork and unity that's core to the franchise notably absent. There was nothing inherently wrong with making Logan the central protagonist but he never really makes him an X-man. Logan doesn't live at the mansion, he doesn't train with the X-men, and he fails to develop strong believable bonds with the other characters.

When you look at it that way, it's easy to see why so many of the relationships feel off. Logan continually creeps on Jean but why? He has like three conversations with her in X1 before leaving and about the same in X2 before she dies. And it's not like they develop any of their relationship off screen, we literally see everything that ever happens between them because the movies follow Logan so closely. So where does this deep seeded love for Jean come from? This problem extends to his relationship with Cyclops and Storm as well. He's supposed to be rivals with Cyclops but they should also develop a mutual respect between one another and a bond over their love of Jean. That never happens and instead they never go beyond merely hating each other. Logan and Storm's relationship is even worse considering it's basically nonexistent despite their history of being incredibly close in the comics.

So Logan is the center of these movies and yet his relationships with everyone are shallow at best. Everything about them is told to the viewer instead of shown or developed on screen. And with such a strong emphasis on Logan the outsider, Singer spends most of his energy making sure Logan looks badass instead of developing any kind of group dynamic either on or off the battlefield. So Storm, Cyclops, and Jean all get their moments to show off their powers but never as a coordinated team because that doesn't work when Logan fights alone all the time. Instead what you mostly get from them are these brief snippets of special effects in lieu of compelling action sequences. The vast majority of the standout action in X1 and X2 is centered around Logan fighting by his lonesome.

I want to reiterate here that most of this doesn't make for a bad movie if you're willing to focus solely on Logan like Singer wants you to. But if you care at all about doing the other characters justice, you're sore out of luck. To make matters worse, Singer also liked to throw in popular characters as glorified cameos or just shells of their actual comicbook counterparts. Seeing Colossus in X2 for something like five seconds was such a cocktease. Kitty Pryde is in X1 sorta kinda not really. Lady Deathstrike is a major villain in X2 but shares no similarities with her comicbook character apart from her claws. That just stings because the movies can't even get the core relationships right but still flaunts these other beloved characters in front of you. The major exception is Xavier and Magneto whose relationship is pretty damn good. I thought Singer nailed their dynamic in all his films.

I hope that helped illustrate how these movies feel a little hollow. Again, not necessarily as films but definitely as X-men movies. I should also point out that a lot of these problems were much improved in DoFP - mostly because of the decreased focus on Logan and the use of Xavier and Magneto to drive the story forward.
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perfection.gif

In regards to the bold, the X-men are the most cohesive, coordinated team in comics. They're one of the only superhero teams that live and train together, and they do the latter habitually. X-men movies should have the most amazing teamwork-centered action sequences, but we've never seen it. Instead, the Avengers films regularly have much better team battles even though the characters are group of people who kind of hate each other and only randomly get together during emergencies.
 
kame-sennin said:
perfection.gif

In regards to the bold, the X-men are the most cohesive, coordinated team in comics. They're one of the only superhero teams that live and train together, and they do the latter habitually. X-men movies should have the most amazing teamwork-centered action sequences, but we've never seen it. Instead, the Avengers films regularly have much better team battles even though the characters are group of people who kind of hate each other and only randomly get together during emergencies.
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It's why I have a hard time going back to X1 and X2 despite them being pretty good movies. I can't get invested in any of the action because I don't really care about any of the characters when they're mostly just there in service of Logan's development.

Jorok Goldblade said:
Huh. Okay. The impressions I had read made it sound like it was alright for wasting a Saturday afternoon on FX or Spike TV, but not worth dropping money on.
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The Wolverine is really underappreciated considering how fun it is (I'm also obligated to mention how absurdly attractive Tao Okamoto is). The last act is admittedly pretty bad though. The director's cut is a little better in that regard so that's what I'd recommend.
 
I'm hearing good things about Jean Grey and Cyclops.
That's very good.
And the next X-men movie will be set in the 90's!
 
guek said:
This problem extends to his relationship with Cyclops and Storm as well. He's supposed to be rivals with Cyclops but they should also develop a mutual respect between one another and a bond over their love of Jean. That never happens and instead they never go beyond merely hating each other. Logan and Storm's relationship is even worse considering it's basically nonexistent despite their history of being incredibly close in the comics.
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One of the aspects of Cyclops and Wolverine that I don't think I've seen explored anywhere that could serve as fuel both for rivalry and kinship is the danger that both of them pose. They both have this incredibly dangerous, destructive force pushing to get out of them (Cyke's uncontrolled Optic blasts and Logan's berserker rage) that they must constantly maintain a sense of discipline to keep from hurting everyone they care about. They can see in each other the thing that the fear about themselves.
 
Singer showed us some X-Men teamwork in the DoFP opening future fight. That sequence was partially why I was optimistic about Apocalypse. That shit should have been there since X1.

guek said:
I'll try to answer as best as I can.

I don't think Singer's X-men movies are completely bereft of what's core to the comics but there are definitely areas where they are sorely lacking - not as films but as an adaptation. Singer gets a lot of stuff right though. His casting is usually pretty good, he incorporates franchise staples like Cerebro and the school very well, everyone's powers work as they should more or less, he keeps the central conflict on point, and he understands Xavier and Magneto. That last point is probably his greatest strength in terms of adapting the source material.

Where he falls short though are some of the more intimate aspects of the X-men. While all the pieces are there, most of the relationships are a superficial facsimile at best, especially in his first two movies. That's because the first two movies use Logan as the POV character and primary protagonist without ever really establishing his role among the X-men. He's still an outsider in X1 and X2, a loner who plays by his own rules. What Singer fails to establish is a sense of family and belonging the X-men are meant to represent. Logan never really becomes part of that family in either of the first X-men movies. This would be fine if Logan weren't the center point to both those films but unfortunately that's how they're constructed. The result is this constant outside looking in perspective which makes the sense of teamwork and unity that's core to the franchise notably absent. There was nothing inherently wrong with making Logan the central protagonist but he never really makes him an X-man. Logan doesn't live at the mansion, he doesn't train with the X-men, and he fails to develop strong believable bonds with the other characters.

When you look at it that way, it's easy to see why so many of the relationships feel off. Logan continually creeps on Jean but why? He has like three conversations with her in X1 before leaving and about the same in X2 before she dies. And it's not like they develop any of their relationship off screen, we literally see everything that ever happens between them because the movies follow Logan so closely. So where does this deep seeded love for Jean come from? This problem extends to his relationship with Cyclops and Storm as well. He's supposed to be rivals with Cyclops but they should also develop a mutual respect between one another and a bond over their love of Jean. That never happens and instead they never go beyond merely hating each other. Logan and Storm's relationship is even worse considering it's basically nonexistent despite their history of being incredibly close in the comics.

So Logan is the center of these movies and yet his relationships with everyone are shallow at best. Everything about them is told to the viewer instead of shown or developed on screen. And with such a strong emphasis on Logan the outsider, Singer spends most of his energy making sure Logan looks badass instead of developing any kind of group dynamic either on or off the battlefield. So Storm, Cyclops, and Jean all get their moments to show off their powers but never as a coordinated team because that doesn't work when Logan fights alone all the time. Instead what you mostly get from them are these brief snippets of special effects in lieu of compelling action sequences. The vast majority of the standout action in X1 and X2 is centered around Logan fighting by his lonesome.

I want to reiterate here that most of this doesn't make for a bad movie if you're willing to focus solely on Logan like Singer wants you to. But if you care at all about doing the other characters justice, you're sore out of luck. To make matters worse, Singer also liked to throw in popular characters as glorified cameos or just shells of their actual comicbook counterparts. Seeing Colossus in X2 for something like five seconds was such a cocktease. Kitty Pryde is in X1 sorta kinda not really. Lady Deathstrike is a major villain in X2 but shares no similarities with her comicbook character apart from her claws. That just stings because the movies can't even get the core relationships right but still flaunts these other beloved characters in front of you. The major exception is Xavier and Magneto whose relationship is pretty damn good. I thought Singer nailed their dynamic in all his films.

I hope that helped illustrate how these movies feel a little hollow. Again, not necessarily as films but definitely as X-men movies. I should also point out that a lot of these problems were much improved in DoFP - mostly because of the decreased focus on Logan and the use of Xavier and Magneto to drive the story forward.
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This is a good post. Pretty much nails how I feel about X1 and 2.
 
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