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[LCGeek]

Sorry but your in fantasy land, Pc's cant get 2 GPU's working and SLI, you think Nintendo can do what Nvidia and AMD struggle with lol.

They will be hiding GPU's in power supplies next like Misterxmedia...

If there is stronger CPU + GPU, there will be a new board..which has on all the expensive components imo. There are something you could reuse like power supply, disk, modem, box and the like, but most of the value is the main board.

Maybe the SCD is a slot in GPU card....cant see it though, but there will be no $ 99 plug in box boosting power

There are so many reasons for what you mentioned. SLI sucks and multi discrete adapters as DX12 or Vulkan allows is superior. Using two distinct gpus is possible and it offers more power than two of the same gpus in that mode or SLI.

We don't see SLI is because it's a pain to program games for. You would be right not expect nintendo to fail considering they lack expertise yet if any big company wanted to the time is right to make middleware that can be injected in to either of the APIS I mentioned that make it easier. Games make SLI problematic, yet if any of the big 3 were to build it up naturally so that it can be used easier games would go in to another mega era of computational improvements.

AMD/Nvidia don't struggle with SLI they did their part. The people that failed are devs, but to be fair SLI is rarely used. However a console designed like I mentioned would shit on any other console we have had to date or could have from that point on.

 

[geordiemp]

Nintendo patented the idea, so there must be something to it, even if it's minor offloading of processing. When I get some time I'll go through the patent specification in detail to see if they explain how exactly the SCD supplements the console.
.

Fair enough, I read it a while ago and it was intentionally vague, and given laptops can plug in an external GPU using thunderbolt, thats the only tech that it could be but a proprietary connector.

And even if it is that you cannot defend that as a patent as its been done too many times over last 5 years.

It would still be pointless, as the next gen will have APU's with stacked memory seems to be the way the tech will evolve......which would again be a new main board and so no benefit to a plug in at all imo.

SLI sucks and multi discrete adapters as DX12 or Vulkan allows is superior. Using two distinct gpus is possible and it offers more power than two of the same gpus in that mode or SLI.

.

Yeah I read that advanced Dx12 maybe allow 2 Gpu's to work together better even 2 different GPU types, but that is still a just a better driver for what has been done already with notebooks and external GPU's - you could not defend that patent when thunderbolt connected EGPU have been around for some time now.

 

[entremet]

Is Emily Rogers a pen name? Alias?

 

[Eolz]

Is Emily Rogers a pen name? Alias?

It's obviously not her real name, unless she wanted everyone to know her sources or cause her problems.

 

[ozfunghi]

It's obviously not her real name, unless she wanted everyone to know her sources or cause her problems.

You mean i've been stalking the wrong girl?!

Spoiler

KIDDING

 

[dacuk]

I could have posted this practically word for word, and I agree completely, though I don't even do the PC Gaming thing.

I've never owned a Playstation console (though I do have a PSP) and the only Xbox console I've ever owned was an Xbox 360. Otherwise it's just been Nintendo products for the last decade for me. The Wii/DS combo and now Wii U/3DS combo offers more games than I could possibly have time to play.

And yeah, I gave Assassin's Creed it's fair shake, twice even. Both times I found it pretty dull and medicore, and I doubt I'll ever buy a game in that franchise ever again.

I gave Call of Duty a shot with Black Ops 2 on my Wii U. It's blatant jingoism and over-the-top violence turned me off very quickly, and it doesn't help that multiplayer was a really bad time.

Never bothered with Grand Theft Auto at all. Like with Call of Duty, over the top violence just isn't my scene and as such I've never been interested in any of those titles.

But please don't label me a Nintendo Fanboy, because I'm anything but. Just because I prefer the types of software Nintendo tends to publish doesn't mean I automatically dislike everything else. Enjoy your games and let me enjoy mine, that's all I ask. Unfortunately these days that's easier said than done for a lot of folks.

Another one here, bro.

 

[squidyj]

Nintendo patented the idea, so there must be something to it, even if it's minor offloading of processing. When I get some time I'll go through the patent specification in detail to see if they explain how exactly the SCD supplements the console.



I'm one of you! Last non-Nintendo console I've owned is a PS2, and I barely got anything on that. I just am not a fan of shooters or story-based games in general, barring a few exceptions (Witcher), and I have had good enough PCs over the past decade which let me play pretty much any third party games which do align with my tastes (Diablo, Dark Souls, etc.) Really the only game I would buy on a PS4 right now is Bloodborne, and to me that's not worth dropping $400. Nintendo games just resonate with me in a different way, I guess because I'm an "older" gamer who grew up with gameplay focused games.

please stop with this.


Also I'm not sure what the point of these statements are? What are you trying to say in relation to the nx? you'll buy one? Nintendo can go it alone?

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

I think it's folks trying to say there's still a market for Nintendo's brand of content. Their stuff is generally a nice middleground between the story-heavy open world titles a lot of publishers are pushing these days and the "so simple it's not worth my time" nonsense a lot of mobile games tend to be.

 

[squidyj]

I think it's folks trying to say there's still a market for Nintendo's brand of content. Their stuff is generally a nice middleground between the story-heavy open world titles a lot of publishers are pushing these days and the "so simple it's not worth my time" nonsense a lot of mobile games tend to be.

I feel like Wii U showed us what that market really is.

 

[MuchoMalo]

You mean i've been stalking the wrong girl?!

Spoiler

KIDDING

She's a dude, bro.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

I feel like Wii U showed us what that market really is.

And it's really unfortunate that it's in the state its in, but here's hoping Nintendo manages to stay profitable somehow. Losing Nintendo would be a major loss to the industry, a bigger loss than any other publisher we've lost so far.

 

[LegendofLex]

I feel like Wii U showed us what that market really is.

Hard to say. Wii U was a giant middle finger to the expanded audience Nintendo courted with Wii (big complicated controller, expensive console, uninteresting games), and Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Splatoon, and lightweight collab titles aside, it was a big F-U to Nintendo's dedicated core, too.

 

[Dark Cloud]

She's a dude, bro.

Are you serious?

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

I feel like Wii U showed us what that market really is.

They also sold almost 60 million 3ds

 

[LCGeek]

Yeah I read that advanced Dx12 maybe allow 2 Gpu's to work together better even 2 different GPU types, but that is still a just a better driver for what has been done already with notebooks and external GPU's - you could not defend that patent when thunderbolt connected EGPU have been around for some time now.

Fair enough. I don't know the full extent of this SCD shit I hear so I have no reason to know why it's unique compared to what you mention or hogwash that won't go anywhere. I do know this nintendo doesn't spend time patenting things they don't intend to use at some point or that have no value.

 

[LegendofLex]

They also sold almost 60 million 3ds

3DS is not hugely encouraging, what with its relatively low software sales (which indicates either relatively low user engagement or that the install base is considerably smaller than the number of HW units sold suggests) and the fact that Nintendo keeps pushing out hardware refreshes which motivate upgrades and repurchases as much as they attract new users.

 

[MoonFrog]

I buy my western games on PC with my strategy games/other PC exclusives. I used to buy them on Xbox in the mid-2000s, until I realized that I could just consolidate the platforms as I wasn't on Xbox for its exclusives. I used to buy my Japanese titles on PS with the PSX and PS2 but that is mostly dead and PS is pretty much an Xbox 360 clone again with exclusives I won't buy a console for. My point is: unless PS4's Japanese support is a return to form in the end and NX gets it too or NX has exclusive and good support from Japan, I'm not going to be a big third party buyer on NX.

If I were, I'd be thinking about a PS4 right now for FFXV et. al. Instead, I think I'll probably not get that game but am quietly hoping I'll be convinced otherwise, but in any case I can wait for any PC or NX version that happens. Or Neo if I'm going to buy a PS4, but FFXV would have to be damn impressive to sell a system for me.

 

[Nanashrew]

Because the whole "Nintendo doesn't care for powerful hardware" thing is BS. They only released 2 weak consoles, but every other Nintendo home console was a powerhouse in their time.

Plus, the only reason the Wii U wasn't powerful is because they thought they'd get the same results the Wii did, which now they know DOESN'T WORK and you'd think they learned their lesson.

That said, "not x86" says nothing but "not as easy to develop for as the rest", and that has nothing to do with power.

Not really. Everything supports ARM these days, it's in no way exotic like Nintendo's past choices. This would be standardized as there is no advantage or disadvantage between x86 and ARM for gaming machines. Everything runs on engines these days and don't require much for you to switch between platforms or architecture.

The differences between the two architectures is practically nothing.

 

[gamerMan]

You know, I'm part of the "third-party" conundrum. People joke about not owning only a Nintendo console, but I have for years. Even if I eventually acquired a PlayStation from a friend throughout the generations, I barely ever played on it. I just don't play those usual AAA games. I've never played Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, or Metal Gear Solid (unless you count Revengeance). I'm perfectly happy with having Nintendo as my primary, and in many cases, only console.

I get that idea is foreign to most people. They can't imagine anyone enjoying gaming without playing the other companies' offerings. I was given a PS4 as a gift, and since then have only been exposed to the Uncharted series and Infamous Second Son. Both series were fun; I had a great time with them, but they're not something I would buy a console for. I have a gaming PC, and even then, I don't buy a lot of those AAA games, if any. It's used mostly for League of Legends, MMOs, and the occasional Steam game like Rocket League or as previously mentioned, Metal Gear Rising. I will say sales helped my Steam library immensely, and the only reason I even bought Second Son was because it was $20. If it had been $60 like most Nintendo games, I wouldn't have gotten it. It's the reason I don't have Uncharted 4 even though I kinda do want to play it. Only Nintendo has been able to get me to drop $60 on games at launch. It's just my weird tastes, though, I'm not saying other games aren't as good. The only third party games I have an interest in are the two Final Fantasies and Kingdom Hearts 3. If they come to NX, great, I'll get them, but I still can't see myself buying the Call of Duties, Grand Theft Autos, Assassin's Creeds, etc, on NX or any other console. I'm one of those fabled "only plays Nintendo games" you heard about, I guess. I was embarrassed to say that in the past because an idea like that seems laughable to most people on NeoGAF.

I own both a PS4 and Xbox One and rarely play them except for sports games and a few exclusives. I feel games on the other boxes have simple point A to point B gameplay. There is no real design. The games requires no real skill.The best parts of these "games" are found in the cutscenes.

Nintendo games are weird in the sense that they look so cute on the outside but have tremendous depth. If you buy a Nintendo game for $60, you are guaranteed to get your money's worth 90% of the time. To make it through a Zelda game, you will have to think. To pass a Mario level, you will have to have skill. I can play the time trial over and over in Mario Kart, because there is something about the controls that requires complete mastery. Every turn and every twist exists for some reason. It's not just there to be there.

Nintendo is a master in level design and design in general. The sad part they are the only ones left making games that require skill. Most other games play themselves and you are simply left watching cut scenes and jamming the buttons during quicktime events. Either that or you spend a whole game shooting people in the head over and over again. That's the extent of the design. As graphics get better, the gaming industry is moving from skill based game play to passive cinematic experiences that only exist to tell a story or kill people in the most brutal way possible.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Fair enough, I read it a while ago and it was intentionally vague, and given laptops can plug in an external GPU using thunderbolt, thats the only tech that it could be but a proprietary connector.

And even if it is that you cannot defend that as a patent as its been done too many times over last 5 years.

It would still be pointless, as the next gen will have APU's with stacked memory seems to be the way the tech will evolve......which would again be a new main board and so no benefit to a plug in at all imo.

Possibly off topic, but the bolded is not how patent law works. Nintendo filed a very specific set of claims with the patent which are the legal bounds of the invention. The patent has been granted, so the USPTO has effectively said that these particular claims are novel and unobvious, so the claims are considerably different than what others have been doing (Alienware off the top of my head). Other companies can for sure try to challenge it in court, but the fact that it has been granted says it's got a good chance of holding up.

please stop with this.


Also I'm not sure what the point of these statements are? What are you trying to say in relation to the nx? you'll buy one? Nintendo can go it alone?

What? I'm not trying to make a point, I'm just giving my personal experience and my tastes in video games. It was relevant to the poster I quoted, and it was relevant to the thread because people have been saying "no one games only on Nintendo consoles anymore." I know that's a purposefully hyperbolic statement but I figured it can't hurt to add in my personal experience.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

3DS is not hugely encouraging, what with its relatively low software sales (which indicates either relatively low user engagement or that the install base is considerably smaller than the number of HW units sold suggests) and the fact that Nintendo keeps pushing out hardware refreshes which motivate upgrades and repurchases as much as they attract new users.

They been doing that since the Gameboy

The attach rate is the 2nd best for a Nintendo handheld ds- 6.11 3ds-4.65 GBA-4.63 GB/GBC-4.22

I just don't think you can look at the Wii U and say maybe 5-7 Million is the hardcore Nintendo fan-base

 

[ozfunghi]

I own both a PS4 and Xbox One and rarely play them except for sports games and a few exclusives. I feel games on the other boxes have simple point A to point B gameplay. There is no real design. The games requires no real skill.The best parts of these "games" are found in the cutscenes.

Nintendo games are weird in the sense that they look so cute on the outside but have tremendous depth. If you buy a Nintendo game for $60, you are guaranteed to get your money's worth 90% of the time. To make it through a Zelda game, you will have to think. To pass a Mario level, you will have to have skill. I can play the time trial over and over in Mario Kart, because there is something about the controls that requires complete mastery. Every turn and every twist exists for some reason. It's not just there to be there.

Nintendo is a master in level design and design in general. The sad part they are the only ones left making games that require skill. Most other games play themselves and you are simply left watching cut scenes and jamming the buttons during quicktime events. Either that or you spend a whole game shooting people in the head over and over again. That's the extent of the design. As graphics get better, the gaming industry is moving from skill based game play to passive cinematic experiences that only exist to tell a story or kill people in the most brutal way possible.

I'm a Ninty only gamer as well. I do have a gaming capable laptop, and desktop before it. I do own a vectrex, and some Sega consoles, but the only new games i buy are on Nintendo platforms.

Even though i agree with you about level design and depth in Nintendo games (how about those Pikmin 3 missions!) and even though i agree that many 3rd party efforts (mutliplat games) i've played over the years usually end up in "do what the game tells you to do... then wait for the cutscene" gameplay, there also are plenty of exceptions. Personally, i was blown away with Deus Ex HR on WiiU. For an "old" game, it was so refreshing, after having played Assassins Creed 3 to completion. I also hugely enjoyed Splinter Cell Blacklist (a far better game than AC3).

Surely you've played 3rd party games on Nintendo platforms, over the past few years, that showed that not only Nintendo can create such marvelous games. There are a few on WiiU even.

 

[Aroll]

Well, we don't know if all of these things will actually factor into the NX when it's released as a product, but we do know for sure that these are things Nintendo is focusing on simply because they've said as much.

The poster I was responding to was saying he sees the death of Nintendo's dedicated hardware business, and my main point was that, if we take Nintendo at their word, they are working hard to actually fix many of the problems that exist with their previous dedicated hardware, which shouldn't lead one to the conclusion that their dedicated hardware business is dying.

Actually, fixing all the issues the Wii U had doesn't mean Nintendo is necessarily in any better position. Every generation since the NES has sold less and less save the Wii. They haven't actually had a long term solution to that downturn, and until they can actually prove they have one that works, nothing we say about what Nintendo claims or does matters. Nintendo themselves are in good position to push hardware for decades even if they all fail, but that's because they are very smart financially. Doesn't mean the relative death of hardware isn't easy to be seen, it just won't be the sort of death some think it will be.

I think they can certainly turn it around, but they need a longer view than a single generation. They have been so focused on "new gameplay experiences" with hardware that they end up having no continuity. They talk a good game, but even if they make it so all future generations of hardware after NX releases play nice together with unified accounts, transferrable games - basically becoming a consumer friendly PC for the living room - it doesn't mean that it will be successful in doing it.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

You mean i've been stalking the wrong girl?!

Spoiler

KIDDING

Do you sure Emily is a girl?

 

[MuchoMalo]

Are you serious?

The world may never know.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

please stop with this.


Also I'm not sure what the point of these statements are? What are you trying to say in relation to the nx? you'll buy one? Nintendo can go it alone?

For me, I brought it up because there is a problem with the sentiment that people who buy Nintendo consoles generally don't buy third party games on the system. I think there is truth to that, so I was just saying that I personally contribute to that problem and that I'm one of those people who, generally, only buys Nintendo games.

 

[Theanine3D]

Not really. Everything supports ARM these days, it's in no way exotic like Nintendo's past choices. This would be standardized as there is no advantage or disadvantage between x86 and ARM for gaming machines. Everything runs on engines these days and don't require much for you to switch between platforms or architecture.

The differences between the two architectures is practically nothing.

I don't understand why this has to be repeated over and over.

UE4 and Unity have supported ARM for ages. It's not some arcane voodoo tech. There are probably more ARM games released with Unity than x86, considering how many games are released daily on mobile vs PC/console.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Actually, fixing all the issues the Wii U had doesn't mean Nintendo is necessarily in any better position. Every generation since the NES has sold less and less save the Wii. They haven't actually had a long term solution to that downturn, and until they can actually prove they have one that works, nothing we say about what Nintendo claims or does matters. Nintendo themselves are in good position to push hardware for decades even if they all fail, but that's because they are very smart financially. Doesn't mean the relative death of hardware isn't easy to be seen, it just won't be the sort of death some think it will be.

I think they can certainly turn it around, but they need a longer view than a single generation. They have been so focused on "new gameplay experiences" with hardware that they end up having no continuity. They talk a good game, but even if they make it so all future generations of hardware after NX releases play nice together with unified accounts, transferrable games - basically becoming a consumer friendly PC for the living room - it doesn't mean that it will be successful in doing it.

I can't argue with that. My main point though is that looking at Nintendo's dwindling support of the Wii U as an indicator that they're beginning to slowly die as a console maker is pretty short sighted when we have direct quotes from them talking about how they are making drastic changes in an effort to improve their dedicated hardware.

They're seemingly putting it more effort in launching the NX than they did for the Wii U, that doesn't sound like a business which is slowly dying.

 

[Aldric]

Hard to say. Wii U was a giant middle finger to the expanded audience Nintendo courted with Wii (big complicated controller, expensive console, uninteresting games), and Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Splatoon, and lightweight collab titles aside, it was a big F-U to Nintendo's dedicated core, too.

Which is a bit worrying because l remember one of Iwata's stated goals with the Wii U was to satisfy both casuals and dedicated gamers after the Wii was seen as a system that focused too much on the expanded audience. In the end they pretty much failed. This shows that even when they're aware of their issues they have a hard time fixing them.

 

[RedSwirl]

You know, I'm part of the "third-party" conundrum. People joke about not owning only a Nintendo console, but I have for years. Even if I eventually acquired a PlayStation from a friend throughout the generations, I barely ever played on it. I just don't play those usual AAA games. I've never played Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, or Metal Gear Solid (unless you count Revengeance). I'm perfectly happy with having Nintendo as my primary, and in many cases, only console.

I get that idea is foreign to most people. They can't imagine anyone enjoying gaming without playing the other companies' offerings. I was given a PS4 as a gift, and since then have only been exposed to the Uncharted series and Infamous Second Son. Both series were fun; I had a great time with them, but they're not something I would buy a console for. I have a gaming PC, and even then, I don't buy a lot of those AAA games, if any. It's used mostly for League of Legends, MMOs, and the occasional Steam game like Rocket League or as previously mentioned, Metal Gear Rising. I will say sales helped my Steam library immensely, and the only reason I even bought Second Son was because it was $20. If it had been $60 like most Nintendo games, I wouldn't have gotten it. It's the reason I don't have Uncharted 4 even though I kinda do want to play it. Only Nintendo has been able to get me to drop $60 on games at launch. It's just my weird tastes, though, I'm not saying other games aren't as good. The only third party games I have an interest in are the two Final Fantasies and Kingdom Hearts 3. If they come to NX, great, I'll get them, but I still can't see myself buying the Call of Duties, Grand Theft Autos, Assassin's Creeds, etc, on NX or any other console. I'm one of those fabled "only plays Nintendo games" you heard about, I guess. I was embarrassed to say that in the past because an idea like that seems laughable to most people on NeoGAF.

...nah.

I only owned a Gamecube during that generation until I bought a PS2 in late 2005. I spent probably most of 2006 or at least the early half of it buying up tons of cheap PS2 games I'd wanted to play but never got the chance: Metal Gear, Tekken, Final Fantasy X, Devil May Cry, etc.

That said, today the situation is much different. The WIi U is the only current-gen console I own... because I also own a gaming PC on which I play pretty much every non-Nintendo game. I don't think any console can ever completely pull me away from PC at this point. The main reason is because I've simply come to prefer having an open platform. If one of the console manufactures suddenly made their platform open, or at least more open than consoles currently are with some kind of long-term backwards compatibility guarantee I'd think about it.

That said AGAIN, the best thing Nintendo can do for me is give me a good handheld platform. That's pretty much the last space PC hasn't made redundant for me. For every one else that job has probably been done by mobile but I (and likely a lot of GAF) just don't play mobile games. I buy a shitload of them but when given more than a few minutes of free time with handheld devices my top two choices for killing time are either reading on my phone or playing a 3DS game. Being able to pull Super Smash Bros. out of my pocket and play a two-minute match anywhere is much more valuable to me than any mobile game or probably even the Wii U version of Smash.

I just hope Nintendo can put together a handheld NX that can consolidate the Japanese handheld third party developers who haven't already gone to mobile -- the ones currently still making 3DS and Vita games. The new Nintendo machine I'd buy the most software for a this point would be a handheld that does this, consolidates all my Wii U and 3DS Virtual Console games, and establishes some kind of enduring operating system that keeps getting support through multiple hardware iterations for the foreseeable future without completely resetting the software library ever again.

 

[Nanashrew]

I don't understand why this has to be repeated over and over.

UE4 and Unity have supported ARM for ages. It's not some arcane voodoo tech. There are probably more ARM games released with Unity than x86, considering how many games are released daily on mobile vs PC/console.

Yeah. I wish stuff about the architectures and how unimportant it is to focus on were in the OP. Could help to clear some things up before many post.

 

[Father_Brain]

They also sold almost 60 million 3ds

3DS "proves" that its successor can sell 60 million in the same way that DS "proved" that its successor could sell 50 million or that PSP "proved" its successor could sell 80 million.

 

[NeonZ]

Which is a bit worrying because l remember one of Iwata's stated goals with the Wii U was to satisfy both casuals and dedicated gamers after the Wii was seen as a system that focused too much on the expanded audience. In the end they pretty much failed. This shows that even when they're aware of their issues they have a hard time fixing them.

The main issue is that they just can't support an advanced portable and an hd console at the same time, which crippled their software output during the Wii U generation, even if you ignore the 3rd party issues. Now, they've talked about combining the development of portable and consoles and making it easier to share content between them. If they really push that idea forward, that could solve their problem regarding limited development resources.

Of course, it could also end up as an ineffective half-measure if the two hardware aren't that close in spite of what they've said. Then, there's also the price issue. The 3ds almost ended up as a catastrophic failure due to bad launch prices and, up to a point, support. They eventually managed to fix those issues, but I don't think it ever recovered completely from those initial problems.

 

[James Scott]

3DS is not hugely encouraging, what with its relatively low software sales (which indicates either relatively low user engagement or that the install base is considerably smaller than the number of HW units sold suggests) and the fact that Nintendo keeps pushing out hardware refreshes which motivate upgrades and repurchases as much as they attract new users.

I'm pretty sure major titles sell like 10 million units on occasion (6 titles according to Nintendo) so their stuff sells very well there. These are also more expensive portable titles in comparison to last gen's $30 while competing with mobile at full swing.
I think it's fairly encouraging showing that people do want Nintendo only systems for the right price.
As for the hardware sales, the 3DS is still at around $170 which was its first price drop with every newer model releasing being actually more expensive and not dropping from that point (both 3DSs available right now are $200). I'd imagine if they were willing to drop the price further the sales would see an increase.
The 2DS was likely their attempt at this, but it's apparently very undesirable as hardware.
The hardware refresh is usually just slightly adjusting the form factor and not intermals.
The N3DS is the difference and even that hasn't had almost anything to take advantage of.
Their new development ecosystem could theoretically allow them to release new hardware refreshes every other year with new internals and games could actually take advantage of it. A developer could feel more comfortable releasing a more ambitious game exclusively for the *New* NX (please don't call it that) if they can also release it on the console instead of having to rebuilt the install base every time which is a point Iwata made when discussing a shared library

 

[Father_Brain]

I'm pretty sure major titles sell like 10 million units on occasion (6 titles according to Nintendo) so their stuff sells very well there. These are also more expensive portable titles in comparison to last gen's $30 while competing with mobile at full swing.
I think it's fairly encouraging showing that people do want Nintendo only systems for the right price.
As for the hardware sales, the 3DS is still at around $170 which was its first price drop with every newer model releasing being actually more expensive and not dropping from that point (both 3DSs available right now are $200). I'd imagine if they were willing to drop the price further the sales would see an increase.
The 2DS was likely their attempt at this, but it's apparently very undesirable as hardware.
The hardware refresh is usually just slightly adjusting the form factor and not intermals.
The N3DS is the difference and even that hasn't had almost anything to take advantage of.
Their new development ecosystem could theoretically allow them to release new hardware refreshes every other year with new internals and games could actually take advantage of it. A developer could feel more comfortable releasing a more ambitious game exclusively for the *New* NX (please don't call it that) if they can also release it on the console instead of having to rebuilt the install base every time which is a point Iwata made when discussing a shared library

IMO, the key fact regarding 3DS demand is that sales peaked in 2012, much earlier and at a much lower level than GBA or DS did, and have been in near-continuous decline (absent a brief blip upward when N3DS launched) ever since. To me, that suggests a structural shift in the market for portable gaming much more than it does a reflection of anything specific to 3DS as a platform.

 

[RedSwirl]

IMO, the key fact regarding 3DS demand is that sales peaked in 2012, much earlier and at a much lower level than GBA or DS did, and have been in near-continuous decline (absent a brief blip upward when N3DS launched) ever since. To me, that suggests a structural shift in the market for portable gaming much more than it does a reflection of anything specific to 3DS as a platform.

I expect handheld NX, with its (hopeful) consolidation of current 3DS and Vita third party developers, to essentially be the ultimate last stand of Japanese dedicated handheld gaming. If Nintendo is smart it'll never reset the architecture and software library again and just keep doing hardware refreshes of that platform periodically, iPhone-style, for the foreseeable future.

If Nintendo actually does launch NX as just some kind of hardware-agnostic operating system shared between console and handheld, then somewhere years and years down the line it can eventually introduce a handheld hardware revision powerful enough to natively run the games of the inaugural NX console. From there, dedicated handheld gaming presumably lives on as a true extension of console gaming -- a console in your pocket in literal terms instead of figurative terms. Maybe SEGA's Nomad is the best existing example. Ideally in my mind Nintendo would just keep going through that cycle continuously, with the latest handheld always being a few steps behind the latest console.

 

[cartman414]

I don't understand why this has to be repeated over and over.

UE4 and Unity have supported ARM for ages. It's not some arcane voodoo tech. There are probably more ARM games released with Unity than x86, considering how many games are released daily on mobile vs PC/console.

This would admittedly be the first time downporting wouldn't be involved.

 

[Theanine3D]

This would admittedly be the first time downporting wouldn't be involved.

Not necessarily. The engine could run just fine on NX, but if the hardware is significantly weaker, game assets can still need downgrading sometimes. Shader complexity might need to be toned down, polygon counts and texture resolutions lowered, and the number of NPCs on-screen at a time lowered too. Stuff like that.

All of that is MUCH less of an obstacle compared to having to port the entire engine code over. But it's still added work. However, multiplatform developers are already having to do this work anyway if they're releasing on PC and including a "Low" graphics setting. So, even if NX ends up being slightly weaker than PS4/XBO, it's still in an okay position to receive ports from a tech standpoint. The main obstacle to ports for NX will be business-related in most cases, not tech-related.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Summary: It's not ARM but it's ARM but it's not because it's based on ARM but isn't straight ARM. That's literally what he's saying here.

Schrodinger's ARM.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

My point was more on the fact that Neo configurations are forced, and are non-zero effort required due to the various mandates Sony has put in place (and apparent changes in uarch which is going to fuck with dependencies depending on the APIs). So whether or not anyone is making games that will need that hardware or even come close to it, Sony is still 100% requiring ALL games ship with Neo mode.

This, I believe is where ani and others are coming from when they question the current steps.

We don't know this for sure yet though lol Nothing has been confirmed and given the nature of what that would entail, it wouldn't even make sense. I'm skeptical as to the idea that Sony would mandate Neo mode for everyone, including the likes of NISA, Gust, Atlus etc. It could simply be that all games will be mandated to run on Neo, which from the sounds of it, wouldn't be nearly as much of a development nightmare as some people seem to think. We're not looking at two different platforms here after all.

 

[YoYo Switch]

speaking to the third party conundrum

i always own a playstation and nintendo consoles and an xbox

i just get all my nintendo exclusis and i purposely on purchase my third party content on playstation. for consistency...brand loyalty and trophies

i think the only way nintendo gets the support they need, it needs to become the "default" console again. and i think that will be impossible for NX cuz it's launching so late in the cycle.

i think the only reason xbox third party sells pretty decently is because the actual first part content is few and far between. while nintendo actively develops and supports their console with titles from their software groups. they don't hold back just so EA and the like can succeed. they just wanna make games!

 

[Roo]

Haven't been around in a while.
What's the latest news/rumors?
Is NX more powerful than a potato yet?

 

[MCN]

Why are people acting like ARM is some weird, arcane architecture instead of one of the most supported and widely-used architectures in the world?

 

[AdventureRacing]

IMO, the key fact regarding 3DS demand is that sales peaked in 2012, much earlier and at a much lower level than GBA or DS did, and have been in near-continuous decline (absent a brief blip upward when N3DS launched) ever since. To me, that suggests a structural shift in the market for portable gaming much more than it does a reflection of anything specific to 3DS as a platform.

I think this is likely true but it's hard to judge when the 3DS was such a failure of a product. It was far too expensive and had a poor line-up particularly early on. It's main hook, the 3D, was completely shunned by the market and was almost a detriment to the console. That plus it was gimped in terms of power and features.

The 3DS is such a sub par product that I don't think you can judge the whole market based on it (even though I think your conclusion may be true).

 

[Goo]

Why are people acting like ARM is some weird, arcane architecture instead of one of the most supported and widely-used architectures in the world?

I think the halo effect is strong with x86. People probably think x86 = core i7 = fast or PC processor in my PS4 / XBox One is fast like a gaming PC.

 

[NateDrake]

Haven't been around in a while.
What's the latest news/rumors?
Is NX more powerful than a potato yet?

It's around the power of a twice baked potato with cheese.

 

[GhostTrick]

Why are people acting like ARM is some weird, arcane architecture instead of one of the most supported and widely-used architectures in the world?

People associate ARM with small, low powered, slow, phone CPU while they associate x86 with big, power hungrh, fast, PC CPU.

 

[KingBroly]

People associate ARM with small, low powered, slow, phone CPU while they associate x86 with big, power hungrh, fast, PC CPU.

It's not like 99% developers have their engines up and running on ARM for mobile phone games or anything...oh wait.

Ultimately, if Nintendo goes with ARM, which I think they will, they're seeing it as a middle ground for mobile phone developers to put their games on Nintendo hardware. It's an easier bridge to cross.

I still think Nintendo is going to try and make a bigger push for more...kid friendly core titles like Madden, FIFA, NBA and Skylanders, since hey, kids love those kind of games, too.

 

[KingSnake]

I still think Nintendo is going to try and make a bigger push for more...kid friendly core titles like Madden, FIFA, NBA and Skylanders, since hey, kids love those kind of games, too.

I'm not so sure about this. It took them so damn long to get Minecraft, which is the most kid friendly game these days.

 

[KingBroly]

I'm not so sure about this. It took them so damn long to get Minecraft, which is the most kid friendly game these days.

I don't know what the hold up on Minecraft was, honestly. I don't know what the hold up on Nintendo getting a lot of games is, honestly. But it feels like Nintendo is getting more developers lately. At least outside of EA, Activision, Take Two and Ubisoft, who are the bane of the industry right now.