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[lightchris]

Can someone explain what exactly the teraflops mean? 4TF, 6 TF its all Chinese to me.

That's actually pretty simple: The maximum number of floating point operations the GPU can do per second.
"Tera" stands for trillion, so we are talking about trillions of operations per second. Those numbers are that high because current GPUs can have up to a few thousand small processing cores (mostly called shader units or similar).

How to get to the exact numbers is simple to calculate too: You just multiply the number of shader units by their clock speed, and multiply that by 2 (because each shader unit can perform one addition and one multiplication at the same time).
For example, assume a GPU with 2560 shader units and a clock speed of 1.2 GHz, that would make 2560 * 1.2 * 2 = 6144 GFLOPS or 6.144 TFLOPS (about the same as the rumoured Scorpio).

Now how much that means for actual real world gaming performance isn't as easy to answer as there can be many more important factors. It definitely is an indication though, and in practice, given similar GPU architectures one can predict the actual performance pretty well based on the FLOPS.

 

[Bgamer90]

Plenty of people have pcs that can run tomorrow's xbox games at some capacity. Bringing the games to pc will have a huge influence on potential buyers, lol.

Huge? The majority of games that people are playing on consoles (third party multiplats) are on PC so how will it be "huge"? Really doesn't make any sense when people are buying consoles to mainly play action and sports games as sales have shown for a decent number of years now.

I really don't get this argument that people are buying consoles to play exclusives when it's VERY clear that many console users simply want to play a solid number of good games within the console space no matter if they're exclusive or multiplat.

 

[etta]

Huge? The majority of games that people are playing on consoles (third party multiplats) are on PC so how will it be "huge"? Really doesn't make any sense when people are buying consoles to mainly play action games and sports as sales have shown for a decent number of years now.

Exactly. Why aren't Call of Duty numbers the biggest on PC then?
Minecraft can run on any toaster, why are consoles selling so much more of it?

 

[icespide]

Huge? The majority of games that people are playing on consoles (third party multiplats) are on PC so how will it be "huge"? Really doesn't make any sense when people are buying consoles to mainly play action and sports games as sales have shown for a decent number of years now.

I really don't get this argument that people are buying consoles to play exclusives when it's VERY clear that many console users simply want to play a solid number of good games within the console space no matter if they're exclusive or multiplat.

people don't realize just how niche high end PC gaming really is

 

[Proelite]

Since I am getting both the Neo and Scorpio, I did rather have them come out a year apart and be vastly different.

 

[wachie]

If they are actually revealing or saying anything about Scorpio at E3, that thing has to be close, can't be one year out. It's gotta be this fall or next spring at the latest.
Hype intensifies!!!

Like I said earlier in the thread, people hoping for a balanced box, best to hope its not this year.

 

[Zedox]

Since software sales is king, they should release MS studio games on PS4 and NX too, lure those uses into "ecosystem" and lock them down.

They could, sure, but I think they still want to "own" everything and they are a major competitor to Sony in the game space, I don't think they want to do that all out. They have released some games on Steam, but I don't think you'll see that going forward (besides Minecraft or some other IPs that they buy that are already multiplat).

At that point, the question becomes 'What is the goal of this box?". If its just to maintain market presence for the brand due to how its been observed in the past, then thats one thing. I think that works out for everyone involved really, especially since its clear MS wants to do this market shift for how the business of Xbox gets conducted.

So as long as they are going into this thing knowing full well that they may very well take a wash on the hardware sales, but that they've established a wide enough net for gamers that they're going to grow their market userbase for potential software sales, thats one thing. However, if they are investing in this machine & its success being a core goal for Xbox going forward, then I think they need to stop & have a realignment of goals.

For starters, I just don't see either the Neo OR the Scorpio taking off in any major way on the market for the first year of their respective availability, if ever. Just observing the marketshare retraction that has definitely occurred this generation due to a variety of factors (Nintendo shitting the bed, mobile eating into genres that were normally console focused, etc.) I do believe that a console can still manage to sell up to 10 million units a year WW. I don't see Neo or Scorpio doing that. 5 million in their first year on the market (respectively)? Yeah, maybe, but thats a big if.

One thing I will say about Sony's approach with the Neo - they are obviously going to use a 4K angle to help market the Neo, and I do feel this is important. I think what will help these iterative models gain ground is a trojan horse of sorts. For Neo, its trying to cross-sell to the 4K TV market who are currently content strapped. If Scorpio is truly going to show up a year late, then they are going to need their own marketing trojan horse, and I dunno if raw power is a good enough selling point.

The goal of the box, easy. Fastest and easiest way into the Xbox platform. You can take the PC route, mobile route (to a less extent but still there), or you can take the console route. Consoles are the mainstream of gaming among people. I also feel that these consoles won't take off comparative to the beginning of this generation, and I also believe that both platform holders know this. What they do want to do is keep the hype going by innovating and making people have a reason to buy games more. "Oh look at this new shiny thing and what it can do." It's just apart of business.

The marketing Trojan horse for the Scorpio isn't the box itself but what can be done with it. MS has to get regular apps on the TV. Apps that you wouldn't find that you would want from 3rd parties. The Windows Store on the Xbox this summer and the apps that come out for it will be very paramount to Microsoft's plans. You can do this this and this, but also play hardcore games would be the marketing for the Scorpio. Also, when they do market it, they will be showing off "Scorpio footage" of games but at the end they'll say something like: "Xbox starting at $249" (meaning Xbox Slim) because they technically wouldn't be lying since the game would be on both but it would make people get an "xbox" period (which is part of the goal of getting people on the platform).

Scorpio is basically for the "hardcore" gamer. The XBO is for the "core" gamer. The xbox stick (in my eyes based off of what we know) is for people who want to stream the Xbox to another room without buying another Xbox or streaming from their PC (which I think will happen eventually). The "apple tv" type box is for the "casual" gamer. MS is just trying to make devices that hit all parts of the market.

But obviously we need to see what they show at E3 to make a more informed speculation on what they do. But talking about it is also fun.

Yep. With the amount of teasing etc, it has to be at E3.

And if it's at this E3 it has to be coming out this year.

Holy shit, it's happening isn't it?

Nah bruh. I don't think it's happening. Some teasing but not full on.

 

[Bgamer90]

people don't realize just how niche high end PC gaming really is

I wouldn't say it's very niche but there's definitely a difference between people who are interested in that type of gaming and people who play on consoles -- especially those that only own one relevant console instead of multiple; they simply care about having access to popular solid games... not the fact that those games are on other platforms.

PR/Advertising and "what my friends have" has played a far bigger role in consoles sales than true exclusives this gen.

 

[Zedox]

PR/Advertising and "what my friends have" has played a far bigger role in consoles sales than true exclusives this gen.

yurp.

 

[Purest 78]

Huge? The majority of games that people are playing on consoles (third party multiplats) are on PC so how will it be "huge"? Really doesn't make any sense when people are buying consoles to mainly play action and sports games as sales have shown for a decent number of years now.

I really don't get this argument that people are buying consoles to play exclusives when it's VERY clear that many console users simply want to play a solid number of good games within the console space no matter if they're exclusive or multiplat.

Lots of people buy certain console because of the games they offer. Multiplats alone aren't a big enough reason to game on PC. If all the Console exclusives I like went to PC, I'd buy a PC in a heartbeat. Play all those games and Multiplats at there best.

 

[etta]

Like I said earlier in the thread, people hoping for a balanced box, best to hope its not this year.

Why is Jaguar 480X GDDR5 not balanced?

 

[Zedox]

Lots of people buy certain console because of the games they offer. Multiplats alone aren't a big enough reason to game on PC. If all the Console exclusives I like went to PC, I'd buy a PC in a heartbeat. Play all those games and Multiplats at there best.

Majority of people aren't like that. That's what Bgamer90 is trying to say (and has been saying for several months).

 

[bidguy]

Okay putting on my tin foil hat:
Major Nelson was discussing the Halo 5 Turbo Warzone mode on "This Week on Xbox" which came out today. Turbo Warzone means you get the REQ levels much faster, and as he was explaining it how fast you get the REQ levels he said "time to Scorpion is very fast", drawing a parallel to "time to kill". But why did he say Scorpion? He could have used any other vehicle or weapon that can be unlocked with REQ levels.

I'll leave my hat on for now.

that wording is suspicious as fuck ... all this tease, i really hope they deliver

 

[wachie]

Why is Jaguar 480X GDDR5 not balanced?

It's not, which is why I dont like the rumored Neo specs with an overclocked Jaguar.

 

[Purest 78]

I wouldn't say it's very niche but there's definitely a difference between people who are interested in that type of gaming and people who play on consoles -- especially those that only own one relevant console instead of multiple; they simply care about having access to popular solid games... not the fact that those games are on other platforms.

PR/Advertising and "what my friends have" has played a far bigger role in consoles sales than true exclusives this gen.

Wasn't that the case last generation as well? In the US at least 360 destroyed ps3, 360 didn't have more True exclusives as you say. 360 was the go to system just as ps4 is now.

 

[etta]

It's not, which is why I dont like the rumored Neo specs with an overclocked Jaguar.

Why isn't it though?

 

[Purest 78]

Majority of people aren't like that. That's what Bgamer90 is trying to say (and has been saying for several months).

How do you know This? People aren't ignorant about PC gaming anymore. If you could play all your favorite xbox titles on PC at there best plus multiplats, and free online It's an easy choice.

 

[KinofChaos]

people don't realize just how niche high end PC gaming really is

I wouldn't go that far, it's big enough to keep companies like Nvidia raking in profits, it's a big market, certain types of games though don't appeal to the PC market like console. COD is one, PC gamers thing COD is trash and have way better options even from F2p and cheaper games.

It's maybe a North America thing? PC gaming is huge WW but North Americans don't take to it as much. High end. PC gaming is not niche.

 

[LowSignal]

IMO the average console buyer AKA John/Joan Q public wants to pop a game in and have it work, not deal with Adobe updates,incompatibility problems and Driver issues that can be an issue on PC. Playstation, Xbox are brands people flock to because they know they can play games with minimum issues

 

[geordiemp]

How do you know This? People aren't ignorant about PC gaming anymore. If you could play all your favorite xbox titles on PC at there best plus multiplats, and free online It's an easy choice.

How, go read the thread on cheats in Overwatch - I bet its only the PC version. Then you have gaming mice, people with 120 Hz monitors, FOV changes, you can do macros and stuff to optimise rate of fire etc etc etc...We could go on all day...really, we could.

Some people just want to sit on the couch and play online using a controller against others in a controlled LEVEL environment. PC will never offer this.

You know this.

 

[Zedox]

How do you know This? People aren't ignorant about PC gaming anymore. If you could play all your favorite xbox titles on PC at there best plus multiplats, and free online It's an easy choice.

I would (and am) going to primarily play on the console. I will upgrade my current PC to run newer games but the console will still be my place of choice. Why? Because it's easy and quick. Can I do the same with a PC, I sure can.

Yes, people aren't ignorant...but you forget one small detail: convenience. People are lazy (PC building/buying requires time). And a big thing, kids (parents aren't going to do research on the best gaming pc rig when they can just buy a playstation or an xbox). The convenient factor plays a big role in what's the most popular. Changing oil isn't hard, changing brakes isn't hard either...but majority of people still pay someone else to do it...cuz it's convenient. It's the same thing with consoles.

 

[Purest 78]

I would (and am) going to primarily play on the console. I will upgrade my current PC to run newer games but the console will still be my place of choice. Why? Because it's easy and quick. Can I do the same with a PC, I sure can.

Yes, people aren't ignorant...but you forget one small detail: convenience. People are lazy (PC building/buying requires time). And a big thing, kids (parents aren't going to do research on the best gaming pc rig when they can just buy a playstation or an xbox). The convenient factor plays a big role in what's the most popular. Changing oil isn't hard, changing brakes isn't hard either...but majority of people still pay someone else to do it...cuz it's convenient. It's the same thing with consoles.

With the price of PC gaming hitting a all time low. You're underestimating the amount of people that would switch, If they could play their favorite games on PC imo.

 

[therealbigrich]

As a person that recently purchased a PC for gaming that has a X1 and Ps4 I just have to say I feel like we are a long way off from PC becoming mainstream for gaming. All the people I know play on Console and never gave PC gaming a thought . Even though building a PC is easy for most its adds to the inconvenience and people are pretty use just buying a console taking it home and playing .

 

[mosdl]

IMO the average console buyer AKA John/Joan Q public wants to pop a game in and have it work, not deal with Adobe updates,incompatibility problems and Driver issues that can be an issue on PC. Playstation, Xbox are brands people flock to because they know they can play games with minimum issues

You mean download system updates, day 1 patches and the like? Also driver issues happen way less than broken console games.

 

[mosdl]

Button?...no (not quite). There IS a converter program though. MS used it to convert a steam version of Witcher 3 to UWP for Build recently. I dunno how long that took, but from what I can tell apps are converted literally in minutes as an essentially one step process.

That doesn't mean the conversion will pass certification or that it will perform well since it hasn't been optimized for whatever platforms the UWP can run on.

 

[Brewmont]

I'm lolling at people who even remotely think PC gaming will ever take off amongst the mainstream. As an above poster said, people don't have the time or energy for that shit. They just want to buy the thing that lets them play with minimal effort. That's it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a bubble.

 

[see5harp]

I know I wasn't at all a hardcore PC guy until this gen. I still play quite a few games on my xbox one just because of how easy it is to rent games. Releasing brand new games at lower resolutions and framerates than the competition definitely didn't encourage me to actually pay for games on the platform. Basically a game had to be exclusive for me to even consider it.

EDIT: that is saying nothing about the success or popularity of the pc gaming platform. Who the fuck cares about that? It doesn't matter to me how mainstream or popular pc gaming is. It's cheap as fuck for games, the online is free, and I can continue to use my preferred xbox one controller.

 

[Bgamer90]

Lots of people buy certain console because of the games they offer. Multiplats alone aren't a big enough reason to game on PC. If all the Console exclusives I like went to PC, I'd buy a PC in a heartbeat. Play all those games and Multiplats at there best.

And that's you and that's fine. I'm the same way in terms of consoles. I have all three due to exclusives. I know that I'm a minority though (American Wii U sales show this alone).

But anyway, there are millions of people who are buying PS4s and Xbox Ones to simply play yearly shooters and yearly sports. Many of these people will be sticking to consoles no matter how many games move over to PC.

I would agree with many of these arguments if we were talking about console exclusive games becoming games that are available on two/three relevant console, but these games are still going to be exclusive within the console space; Therefore, people will continue to buy consoles (instead of PC) for these titles.

 

[Mr Swine]

Why isn't it though?

It's like pairing a Pentium CPU with a Titan X. Having a weak CPU paired with a reasonable powerful GPU is not optimal, it's freaking unbalanced and no amount of gpgpu will offset that

 

[Bgamer90]

Wasn't that the case last generation as well? In the US at least 360 destroyed ps3, 360 didn't have more True exclusives as you say. 360 was the go to system just as ps4 is now.

Yeah but also, the 360 in the US crushed PS3 far more than what PS4 is doing to Xbox One in US; It's comparing a ~70/30 to a ~55/45 when it comes to splits.

360 took off due to it being a great multiplat box and to be honest, I would say that this is the most important trait for a modern gaming console. "Does this box have popular multiplats?" -- If so, then the console will more than likely not be a complete flop.

 

[...Scatter...]

What does PC gaming have to do with the Scorpio again? If you prefer PC gaming and are going there that's cool. Enjoy it. Bye.

 

[Bsigg12]

What does PC gaming have to do with the Scorpio again? If you prefer PC gaming and are going there that's cool. Enjoy it. Bye.

Microsoft is trying to exit the console market didn't you hear?

 

[presagetogood]

I wouldn't say it's very niche but there's definitely a difference between people who are interested in that type of gaming and people who play on consoles -- especially those that only own one relevant console instead of multiple; they simply care about having access to popular solid games... not the fact that those games are on other platforms.

PR/Advertising and "what my friends have" has played a far bigger role in consoles sales than true exclusives this gen.

Demonstrably true, by all metrics. Exclusives sell better on ps4 this gen because that is the platform with more users and hype, that doesn't necessarily mean there is this in borne preference, desire or anything like that amongst all the people who do end up buying ps4 exclusives. It's just the way the cookie crumbles in terms of which platform has mass appeal and which doesn't.

Multi plats, casual gamers who only buy a couple games at most... This is where the majority is at. Exclusives are a talking point that gets the base riled up on each side, they have some limited effect, but it's far less effectual than people make it out to be on hardcore gamers forums.

 

[Zedox]

What does PC gaming have to do with the Scorpio again? If you prefer PC gaming and are going there that's cool. Enjoy it. Bye.

It an impact on sales of the console of Scorpio but I personally don't think the effect is that huge.

 

[KinofChaos]

Yeah but also, the 360 in the US crushed PS3 far more than what PS4 is doing to Xbox One in US; It's comparing a ~70/30 to a ~55/45 when it comes to splits.

360 took off due to it being a great multiplat box and to be honest, I would say that this is the most important trait for a modern gaming console. "Does this box have popular multiplats?" -- If so, then the console will more than likely not be a complete flop.

No it did not. I was games like Oblivion, Bioshock, Mass effect being exclusive for a year plus and the system being cheaper and having a year on the market to itself. Not to mention MS getting huge marketing deals as COD was taking off, GTA DLC exclusives.. Being 599 and a year late really hurt sony in the US and early game support, not the power difference which as the gen went on did not exist except a few exceptions. 360 didn't take off until Gears of War and after PS3 launched and was more expensive. World Wide it is even less of a factor, Sony can just stay close in the US and dominate the world wide market, that is the difference between the 2 console manufacturers.

 

[RedAssedApe]

I'm lolling at people who even remotely think PC gaming will ever take off amongst the mainstream. As an above poster said, people don't have the time or energy for that shit. They just want to buy the thing that lets them play with minimal effort. That's it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a bubble.

just wait for the steam box. you'll see.

 

[jet1911]

What does PC gaming have to do with the Scorpio again? If you prefer PC gaming and are going there that's cool. Enjoy it. Bye.

MS will release their games on PC so that mean that there's no need for anyone to buy an Xbox.

 

[...Scatter...]

Microsoft is trying to exit the console market didn't you hear?

Yep. LOL

It an impact on sales of the console of Scorpio but I personally don't think the effect is that huge.

Can't wait to hear them mad about UWPs. I would bet most PC gamers have a console too for relaxed gaming. I look at XBOX games releasing on PC as a boon because it will make first party more profitable and maybe it will keep more IP alive.

 

[rrc1594]

Yo this thread is 143 pages! What if they don't even show it?

 

[...Scatter...]

Yo this thread is 143 pages! What if they don't even show it?

I'll be sad

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Yo this thread is 143 pages! What if they don't even show it?

I don't even understand...lol, so much excitement/fear (with delusional theories) being thrown around here. Just reading and enjoying it all, can't wait for the announcements (or no announcements) to watch the meltdowns.

 

[therealbigrich]

Seeing a lot of post about MS games going to PC so. Ppl wouldn't buy they Scorpio. Just makes me think if ppl buy W10 games full price from Windows store vs how most ppl buy games like gamestop, amazon BB etc is that the reason MS don't need XbL on PC like on console?

 

[etta]

It's like pairing a Pentium CPU with a Titan X. Having a weak CPU paired with a reasonable powerful GPU is not optimal, it's freaking unbalanced and no amount of gpgpu will offset that

Ah, bottlenecked.

 

[sunshine and gasoline]

Yo this thread is 143 pages! What if they don't even show it?

Massive case of blue balls on gaf.

 

[Black Hat]

What if they don't even show it?

I can't imagine they'd reveal it a year out anyway.

Marketing nightmare.

 

[AzBat]

I can't imagine they'd reveal it a year out anyway.

Marketing nightmare.

Didn't you hear? That's why it's coming out this year.

 

[jet1911]

Didn't you hear? That's why it's coming out this year.

I don't believe that for a second lol.

 

[ATOMICJORGE]

If they are really moving all in on PC then I will save the money of the Scorpio and I will build a better PC but it's cool to have options

 

[wachie]

Why isn't it though?

Even in the current gen consoles (Xbox One/PS4), the CPU is holding back. Hence there are ways (ACE, SHAPE) that the CPU tasks are offloaded. You also have some examples that the minor clock boost on the Jaguar CPU results in a better performance. Imagine those weak cores paired up with a GPU that is four times more powerful. If Microsoft/Sony learned something from current console's spec, the CPU should be the #1 priority.

 

[truth411]

It's like pairing a Pentium CPU with a Titan X. Having a weak CPU paired with a reasonable powerful GPU is not optimal, it's freaking unbalanced and no amount of gpgpu will offset that

I think that's where Sony is kinda surprising folks. Uncharted 4 is the first game that really dips it's toes into Gpgpu to offset the jaguar cores. Does a pretty dang good job, there even running some of there A.I. code on the GPU (I didn't know that was possible). In other words I wouldn't underestimate them.