Vault Dweller 111
Member
These Love takes stink.
He's playing awful, stop trying to defend his useless ass.
He's playing awful, stop trying to defend his useless ass.
NBA Finals 2016 |OT| - The King demands seconds. The Chef delivers.
- Thread starter Gully State
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LyleLanley
Banned
I still think Love can be really good with the right team, a trade would make sense for everyone.
Kevin Love can probably be part of a big two, in other words he can be productive if he's first or second fiddle. He clearly is a volume scorer. I dunno where they could send him and get back value, though I wonder if the Clips could be persuaded to trade Griffin for him. Love would clearly be the #2 guy over there and Griffin is athletic enough to get his alongside Lebron and Kyrie. Lebron would want to choke him to death, but that's another story.
CopperPuppy
Member
All these Love takes are blowing my mind. Great player - fine. Guy is still a textbook poor fit in Cleveland.
highrider
Banned
Meh, to be honest there's a few guys here that really know basketball, but it's a combination of bandwagon gs guys and people that saw LeBron crush their home team's dreams.
To be fair, LeBron can be a passive aggressive baby at times. It doesn't make him any less of a great player to me, but if you already don't like the guy..
Ninja Scooter
Member
"Killer instinct" or being "clutch" is something that is easy to argue because it's not tangible. It doesn't mean anything. Once people have decided that one player is clutch and the other isn't, future evidence or performance is only taken into account if it reinforces that prior belief.
IIRC Lebron has the highest PPG average in elimination games in NBA history.
As Ninja said, stuff like that is sort of a silly debate because there's no concrete way to argue it, but Lebron is plenty good in pressure situations.
The 18th Letter
Banned
The problem is LeBron doesn't come out to play every game like he did game 5. He more often that not plays like Game 4 where he wants to be John Stockon instead.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
If 2012 Game 6 in Boston didn't disprove 'bad under pressure' LeBron. nothing will.
Ninja Scooter
Member
if he played in every game like he did in Game 5 he would have to be tested for supersoldier serum. You can't hold him to one of the best playoff games of his career and say "Because he doesn't do that every night, he's coming up small". He's been incredible this entire series, and was in last year's Finals as well.
I'd say he's the best defender in the league, honestly. I don't have any links though.
LyleLanley
Banned
This video shows how how he uses his size and quickness to defend multiple positions which allows the Warriors to play small ball while still defending at a high level. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyKYiC7lHvY
Is he better at defending wing players than Butler or Leonard?
His interior defense is topnotch, especially for his size.
reelbigtink
Member
"The Look" game is the most fun I've ever had watching an NBA game. My buddies were all big Celtics fans (dunno why, we're all in Alabama) and watching LeBron decimate them was fantastic.
No I wouldn't say he's the best wing defender, but I think he has an elite combination of wing and interior defense that you can't find anywhere else. He's the elite tweener that teams have been looking for.
The 18th Letter
Banned
I don't expect him to put up 41 every game, I just mean how he approached the game. He looked like he wanted to win and if he had to do it all by himself he would have.
Bogut has been trash all playoffs long save for maybe 1 game.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I mean, he's human. Things like fatigue and pace come into play. He has to defer some to save energy. He's still averaging 28/12/8 on 40 minutes per game in this year's Finals , after averaging 35/13/8 in 45 minutes per game in last year's Finals. For his career he's 27/7/7 in the playoffs on 42 minutes per game. I get that he was awful in the 2011 FInals, but this idea that he, historically, doesn't step up in big games, or do "enough" is pure narrative driven fabrication and is not at all supported by the stats. The struggles that great players in their own right like Klay and Curry are having from game to game in both last year and this year's Finals should be a testament to how amazing LeBron is. Even great players don't normally do what he's done.
Randolph Freelander
Member
And then there's MLE Barnes.
beat
Member
It's not so much that he's a lockdown defender on the ball as it is that he's integral to their team/system defense. I wouldn't say he's the wing stopper level of those two but he's got the strength to defend 5's on switches or even as his main assignment in the SBDS lineup... But he can still switch on screens and credibly defend wings, which you can't say of most good defensive bigs.
I think I heard on ESPN earlier that he is leading both teams in rebounds, assists, steals (tied with Kyrie), blocks (tied with Bogut), and has 1 less point than Kyrie.
You are correct.
Hahaha.
That 10-12 minutes on the floor is more important than his stats show.
The majority of LeBron's points came when Bogut was still playing (he had 25 at half)
In a game without green
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
He was benched last year. I agree that he buys minutes but you'd think Ezeli and Varejao could buy some time if they actually played with some damn sense. Ezeli looks like he forgot how to actually play the game, it's bizarre.
I don't think anyone is going to argue that Green being out didn't impact the game, but looking at the shots LeBron and Kyrie were hitting (LeBron's jumpers that the Warriors were giving him all series with Green in the game; Kyrie hitting high-difficulty shots from all over the floor with Klay draped all over him), I think it's safe to say that those two were still going to put up crazy numbers regardless of Green's presence. Great offense still beats great defense in basketball.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
Unfortunately for the Warriors, it wasn't Kyrie's or Lebron's 41pts that lost the game for them... It wasn't even Green's absence that changed the outcome.
It was Curry missing so many wide open looks, and Barnes not being able to hit the ground if he fell off a ladder.
Max Barnes was soooo bad, that he couldn't hit Adam's nuts w/ Greens foot.
Had Curry just made 30% of his missed shots, and all of Barnes shots went to anyone else capable of making a shot, while also continuing to feed Klay's hot hand, historic performances from both Lebron and Kyrie might not have mattered. Certainly would have been a much closer one.
Game 6 outta be a good one.
beat
Member
This is from last season and before: Dray's defensive highlights.
SlackAdjuster
Member
Here is a quick look at main stats for just the Finals. This is a worksheet for a little fantasy football draft position game we use but it shows main stats from the main players on both teams.
SlackAdjuster
Member
Leonard is way better at defending wing players. When he goes into octopus mode he just swallows players up. Green can get exposed if he is left by himself against an elite guard in open space. This is true of most NBA players though.
Green is as you said really great in the interior but what makes him special is his defense on the pick and roll. You will have to read a few Zach Lowe articles to understand why exactly he is so great, but suffice it to say he is the heart and soul of the GS defense, which is the main reason they won the title last year and are in position to repeat this year.
LyleLanley
Banned
ESPN/ABC is going to have Craig Sager on as a sideline reporter for game 6.
http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2016/06/turners-craig-sager-join-espns-nba-finals-game-6-broadcast-team-sideline-reporter/
http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2016/06/turners-craig-sager-join-espns-nba-finals-game-6-broadcast-team-sideline-reporter/
Awesome.
friskykillface
Banned
believe in Max Barnes
thought the game was tonight lol, blah tomorrow
thought the game was tonight lol, blah tomorrow
Gully State
Member
He can check 1-5 and basically captains the defense. He makes sure that players are in the right spots and covers up any bad switches. I don't think he's as good as Leonard on the perimeter but at the same time, Green is tasked to do way more from a team defense standpoint
LyleLanley
Banned
Warriors fans should be ashamed of themselves.
Every fan base in the NBA would have signs that say "Free _____" if one of their players got suspended in the middle of the finals.
Warriors fans should be ashamed of themselves.
If the Celtics were in the finals and Isaiah Thomas was suspended a game in the middle of the series you'd see "Free Isaiah" signs at the Garden.
LyleLanley
Banned
That's not why they should be ashamed of themselves.
not a jackson 5 fan?
LyleLanley
Banned
I'm arguably the biggest Jackson 5 fan.
LyleLanley
Banned
Bogut out for the rest of the series.
Stabby McSter
Member
nooooo bogut nooooo
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