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[Big Baybee]

I'm not saying it justifies it I'm saying, despite the signs most people assumed it was ok. That much is clear from what I dug up in mere seconds by searching conversations prior to this incident. On top of that a very basic google search brought up photos of children playing in that water.

So again the very basic point is that a kid playing in water that thousands of people play in, is in no way directly comparable to a child ending up in a gorilla enclosure. I can't pretend to know all the details of the gorilla scenario, but speaking at face value here, there is a clear difference between the two.

I think we can both agree that Disney is going to address this hard after what happened. Just be way more specific and probably put some kind of barrier. Not a huge barrier, just something small that also reminds people that we really don't wasn't you to go in this water.

As far as the gorilla thing, the parent in question didn't willfully drop her child into that enclosure. It was a freak accident that I'm honestly shocked hadn't happened before looking at the terrible fencing at that zoo. I mean, look at this:

Kid just fell through that and the mom got dragged for it. Here, a guy ignores posted instructions and a tragedy occurred. They aren't the same in the sense that one was an accident and the other was kind of done out of...........just disobedience?

 

[EBreda]

No swimming doesn't automatically mean "DO NOT TOUCH THE FUCKING WATER OR YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER".

Disney is gonna get properly sued and they should. They need better protection or AT LEAST better signs. I go to those resorts every other year and NEVER had a gator warning.

Those who are not from Florida (in other words, probably 90% os Disney's traffic) are not obliged to know every body of water poses a threat. Dipping my toes is not similar to swimming and the signs should reflect that.

As a father of a 7 yo girl and a 2 yo boy I feel for those parents. Poor family... I sincerely cried when I saw they found the body. Damn what a sad vacation.

 

[msdstc]

I think we can both agree that Disney is going to address this hard after what happened. Just be way more specific and probably put some kind of barrier. Not a huge barrier, just something small that also reminds people that we really don't wasn't you to go in this water.

As far as the gorilla thing, the parent in question didn't willfully drop her child into that enclosure. It was a freak accident that I'm honestly shocked hadn't happened before looking at the terrible fencing at that zoo. I mean, look at this:



Kid just fell through that and the mom got dragged for it. Here, a guy ignores posted instructions and a tragedy occurred. They aren't the same in the sense that one was an accident and the other was kind of done out of...........just disobedience?

But the 2 are different in that one is not something you'd say hey be careful here (which I agree that fence is ridiculous), where the other is a scenario where it's never actually happened. Point being hundreds of thousands of people have stepped foot in those waters, hell there were probably kids earlier in the day playing right there on the water... nobody had ever fallen in that enclosure.

edit- and adding to the above, I get that youre trying to say that we should obey all the rules, but I don't think it's safe to say those rules are in place to protect you at all times. It's often clear why certain rules are in place, and most of the time in the vast majority of states "no swimming" basically means- if you drown it's not our fault, not- careful you may be eaten.

 

[antonz]

The picture above of the chairs along the beach. That teenager in the sand in a matter of 2-3 seconds could be grabbed from behind and dragged into the water by a large alligator.

A sign simply saying No Swimming is not a valid shield to hide behind.

 

[EatinOlives]

The picture above of the chairs along the beach. That teenager in the sand in a matter of 2-3 seconds could be grabbed from behind and dragged into the water by a large alligator.

A sign simply saying No Swimming is not a valid shield to hide behind.

"No Swimming" doesn't even tell you why. Pollution? Sudden drops in depth? Debris?

 

[Big Baybee]

"No Swimming" doesn't even tell you why. Pollution? Sudden drops in depth? Debris?

I guess now they will have signs with more language. I bet they probably didn't want to scare people away from their resorts because they knew the waters are infested with gators.

 

[Saya]

Maybe Disney could alter one of these a bit and throw a Mickey Mouse logo on there and plant them along the beaches and walkways along the water. Should be enough to prevent future incidents, perhaps.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Did you read the post I quoted? Or are you just trolling?

I've read the entire comment chain.

You're saying they shouldn't have killed the gators because we encroached on their territory. But the slaughter of thousands of bugs to build your home is acceptable. They impose on your lifestyle, so I guess they're fair game.

 

[msdstc]

The picture above of the chairs along the beach. That teenager in the sand in a matter of 2-3 seconds could be grabbed from behind and dragged into the water by a large alligator.

A sign simply saying No Swimming is not a valid shield to hide behind.

Here's a shot of the beach he was pulled from

the woman in this photo appears to be splashing water near her child who is right on waters edge... awful parent apparently.

another shot of a child very clearly in the water. Pretty clearly the signage was not doing its job.


edit- point of all this being, for those rushing to cry negligence on the parents part, it's very sad to assume that a simple sign is enough to make you know the water is that dangerous. Regardless if the child was in the water or not, there are a ridiculous amount of people who have probably walked right along that water and had no idea there was a chance- an incredibly small chance, but a chance- that a gator was waiting for you to walk by to make his move. If the signs read differently I sincerely doubt this would've happened. I don't mean to be assigning blame all on disney here, but I think the idea that these signs were enough to keep people away from the waters is wrong.

edit- to point out one more thing, in the gorilla case, a gorilla was killed... whether you agree that it's fair or not people are obviously going to feel more anger and sadness over the loss of a gorilla rather than an alligator.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

They'll probably have to. No one wants to deal with alligators that attacks humans.

Besides, gator tail is delicious.



Nah, they'll just send the others off somewhere.

How else are they going to know? Gator will probably be turned into some fine shoes.

Spoiler

/s

How would they know without cutting up the gator first? And even then the gators have strong, strong stomach acid.

Ugh. Gators are no joke. Fucking scary as hell. What a tragic event.

 

[Darren870]

I've read the entire comment chain.

You're saying they shouldn't have killed the gators because we encroached on their territory. But the slaughter of thousands of bugs to build your home is acceptable. They impose on your lifestyle, so I guess they're fair game.

Use your brain a bit, we all know everything isn't black and white.

When people say, we should just get rid of (insert animal here) because they impose are way of life we set a dangerous precedent. This is no different then many culls that we've had because we don't like something. We've fucked up eco systems plenty already.

It was only 20 years ago when alligators were on the endangered species list. It doesn't take long to put an animal back on one.

---

I still say the signage should have advised one why they shouldn't go into the water. I would have expected that.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Use your brain a bit, we all know everything isn't black and white.

When people say, we should just get rid of (insert animal here) because they impose are way of life we set a dangerous precedent. This is no different then many culls that we've had because we don't like something. We've fucked up eco systems plenty already.

It was only 20 years ago when alligators were on the endangered species list. It doesn't take long to put an animal back on one.

Again, you clearly have no issue killing bugs when they impose on your way of life.

 

[msdstc]

Use your brain a bit, we all know everything isn't black and white.

When people say, we should just get rid of (insert animal here) because they impose are way of life we set a dangerous precedent. This is no different then many culls that we've had because we don't like something. We've fucked up eco systems plenty already.

It was only 20 years ago when alligators were on the endangered species list. It doesn't take long to put an animal back on one.

---

I still say the signage should have advised one why they shouldn't go into the water. I would have expected that.

I'm so confused by your point, again you seem to be valuing the life of the gator more than other creatures such as insects... If we're really splitting hairs I don't see the difference.

 

[AkumaNiko]

What gets me is that the water looks gross. Im pretty sure that feeds in and out of the same lake River Country did, and thats bad.

Disney wont get sued, they will comp the parents when they are ready.

But lest the people in gaf need a reminder, Disney owns ESPN, Star wars, marvel and abc. They get almost 20 million visitors to the magic kingdom park ALONE, not counting epcot, animal kingdom, hollywood studios, merch, food and resort stays. If disney wanted to, they would just wait for the parents to sue and bury them in litigation for 20 years. But they wont, they will change the signs to be a little more descriptive, give the family a few mil at best and a life time pass should they want it.

And in the end, millions will pour into disney world every day and forget this poor kids name.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Here's a shot of the beach he was pulled from

the woman in this photo appears to be splashing water near her child who is right on waters edge... awful parent apparently.

another shot of a child very clearly in the water. Pretty clearly the signage was not doing its job.


edit- point of all this being, for those rushing to cry negligence on the parents part, it's very sad to assume that a simple sign is enough to make you know the water is that dangerous. Regardless if the child was in the water or not, there are a ridiculous amount of people who have probably walked right along that water and had no idea there was a chance- an incredibly small chance, but a chance- that a gator was waiting for you to walk by to make his move. If the signs read differently I sincerely doubt this would've happened. I don't mean to be assigning blame all on disney here, but I think the idea that these signs were enough to keep people away from the waters is wrong.

While I agree with you and I din't blame the parents, those people are not in the beach after dark, and I certainly would not be with my children. Yes, there is a billion chance that those people could be attacked in daylight, but alligators are night hunters, so the chances would be highter by night.

I don't blame Disney too. They did something to avoid accidents, but if course more can be done. And they will. Probably close the beach at night.

It was an accident. It is not like Disney put alligators in its lake.

 

[TheSeks]

I spent two weeks in Orlando and don't think I saw a single gator. Didn't realise they were as common as folk here are talking about.

In inner cities/towns, they aren't going to be very common. They may be in certain lakes (like Disney) but you aren't going to see them strolling down Downtown Avenue.

So the boy's body was found with only a few puncture wounds?

Yes. Because Gators don't CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP (HEY-HO! UF #1!) their food. They take little bites out of it, keep the food somewhere they know of and come back later when decomposition softens it up.

 

[RyanW]

As a father of two little ones I can't even imagine.......


Regarding whether Disney knew, I believe they did.

Stay at the Polynesian sometime and check out what workers do on the beach during the early morning hours......

I think it's no question they knew. Pretty sure they've stated they work with local wildlife control to keep gators out. It's not like it's some huge mysterious conspiracy.

 

[Ensoul]

Yes the sign said no swimming but the kid wasn't really swimming. From my understanding he was playing in a foot of water.

This is just a tragic event. This could happen to any parent as well. How many parents a year let their kids play along the shore of this man made lake and go into the water? My guess is a ton.

At this point it's a good bet that Disney removes the no swimming signs and puts a "stay out of the water because there are alligators" sign in it's place.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

My take on "no swimming sign is not enough": Yes, it lacks description. Could be due to the depth of water, could be pollution, could be parasites, risk of sickness, animals, all above". In the lack of further clarification, I would have stayed away, not entering the water at all. However at a luxery resort it could also mean that it is because the area is not supervised at the time. I guess that was the take of many people there, no bigger risks. But still their decidion.

 

[AkumaNiko]

whoops. deleted.

 

[Cimarron]

So sad. I am glad that they at least found the body. But on the other hand I wonder why the gator did not eat him?

 

[The Lamonster]

When it comes to blame, I think Disney is culpable. There should have been signage referencing alligators.

I don't think the parents did anything wrong. This is a family from Nebraska vacationing in Disney World. I'm sure the potential threat of alligators was the last thing on their minds.

This is just so sad, and has really been bumming me out this week. I'm usually not affected so much by news stories but I have a 1.5yr old and it hits close to home. I can't imagine a more horrifying thing for a child and for the parents.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

So sad. I am glad that they at least found the body. But on the other hand I wonder why the gator did not eat him?

The fact that the body was found intact makes sense, said Jeff Corwin, host of "Ocean Mysteries" on ABC.

"That gator came in, grabbed that boy, pulled him, the dad startled that gator, the gator let him go and then the boy drowned," he said.

Alligators don't swim that far -- they sink into the murky water and lurk there -- which explains why the father did not see the boy when he jumped into the water to try and save him, Corwin said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/15/us/alligator-attacks-child-disney-florida/index.html

 

[The Shadow]

This story made me cry 3 times today. I just keep imagining the parents fear. The kids fear. The pain. My daughter is only 6 months old, but man I would literally not be able to come back from this if it happened to me.

I know people just come here to fight about shit, but I was honestly shocked to click this thread and see people found a way to turn it into a fight.

I know the feels. I can't imagine the fear the kid had. Or how the dad must feel now, having tried to fight with the gator and losing, and now his son is dead.

Fucking brutal. I'm at work and my eyes are burning just thinking about it. I need to turn the internet off for a few days. -_-

 

[Vyer]

As far as the discussion about how preventable this would be; personally I wouldn't have likely been in this situation, though I have been criticized for being overly cautious before. But the combination of - the signs, the water itself (even if the rest looks like a beach that water isn't looking too good) and most importantly it being after dark/9 pm at night - would have been too much for me when it comes to my kids. That said, if the signage needs to be improved and if Disney has to take 'people being people' into account and put up more a physical block to save folks from themselves then it's something they will have to address.

just overall a terrible, unthinkable thing and I feel for the family. going home from what was supposed to be a happy vacation time without their kid is just.....

 

[Chucker]

Christ what a nightmare. The parents are probably never going to fully recover.

I mean this is the thing. The father basically has the image of his kid being taken away etched into his brain. That image will likely never go away.

These two might have been the best parents ever, and this could still happen in the blink of an eye, to anybody. Toddlers love getting into things they shouldn't, only because they don't know better.

They may not mean to, but each parent may start to blame the other for not paying enough attention, in addition to probably beating themselves up for not paying enough attention themselves. A sign that says Warning: Alligators Present might have kept the parents from bringing the young kid to the beach, but that toddler doesn't care about signage.

It sucks, it's horrible and as a father to two it breaks my heart. It'll take two incredible people to make it out of this in one piece.

Disney won't get hit in court because it'll never make it to court. The parents are going to get paid before a suit can be filed.

It's a bad scene all around.

 

[May16]

I don't have my own kids, but I'm the oldest kid in the family, went to Disney World twice with the whole family together. I can't imagine what it would have been like for something like this to have happened.

You go on this vacation and there's that buildup... that excitement leading up to it, and then for this to happen. Jeez, every time they see a Disney logo, which is often in this society, it's going to come up in the backs of their minds now. They might need some PTSD therapy. This will never stop haunting that family.

Tragic.

 

[Xun]

I can't stop imagining the whole thing happening in my head.

It's incredibly upsetting.

I knew something like this would happen one day and I always personally felt having open beaches at the SSL without barriers would eventually lead to disaster.

 

[Tom Nook]

Maybe Disney could alter one of these a bit and throw a Mickey Mouse logo on there and plant them along the beaches and walkways along the water. Should be enough to prevent future incidents, perhaps.

Or maybe Disney can use him advertise their Peter Pan movies:

"NO SWIMMING OR YOU'LL GET EATEN BY TICK TOCK" in a playful matter....

In all serious, my heart goes out to family. This is probably the family's first time in Disney world Florida and had learn the hard way about the gator problem in the state.

At the end, Disney may have to change the signs to be clear on why no swimming. As for a lawsuit coming up, Disney will reach out to the family and settle out of court for X amount of dollars. Parents sign a NDA contract to not discuss their meeting and that's that.

 

[Keri]

Disney won't get hit in court because it'll never make it to court. The parents are going to get paid before a suit can be filed.

An early settlement would be best for the family. I doubt that Disney would pursue this one, but if this went to trial it would be devastating for the parents. Contributory negligence would definitely come up and the parents will be asked why they let the child in the water. A trial won't be good for anyone, basically.

 

[MogCakes]

The look of the lagoon water is definitely not swimming quality. Deep green, murky...

 

[Haruko]

Agreed 100%. Like I said I've seen my fair share of people in these waters... hell they allow canoes and paddle boats in these waters. I'd be willing to bet the number of people on or around these waters plummets outside of the purpose of seeking out gators.

I agree that the lagoon resort marinas will probably lose some business from guests for a while after this.

The kayak/canoe rental is currently only at Fort Wilderness (for use on its inlets), I think. The rental watercraft on Seven Seas Lagoon is motorboats/pontoon boats.

I know Bay Lake (adjacent to the lagoon) has water-skiing, parasailing and jet ski rental from the marina @ the Contemporary Resort. Those will probably take a huge hit.

The water in Bay Lake appears a little "cleaner" as well, from satellite view:

I've never taken time/the extra money to rent any watercraft at WDW, but I imagine they run you through a brief primer on what to expect + waivers before letting you take a boat, at least. They also end services before dusk, which would help prevent most alligator incidents

 

[chuckddd]

Of the many things I don't understand, the main one here is the incessant need to place blame. It's a terrible situation all around. Bad for the parents. Bad for Disney. Bad for alligators. Worst for the child.

 

[AkumaNiko]

Of the many things I don't understand, the main one here is the incessant need to place blame. It's a terrible situation all around. Bad for the parents. Bad for Disney. Bad for alligators. Worst for the child.

Its easier to place blame in a time of grief. Its one of the many things that make us human. Rather than blaming the parents, its easier to blame the multi billion dollar company.

 

[EvilEvoVIII]

Living in Minnesota, we're taught from a young age that if there's a lake, you swim in said lake, regardless of time of day. I would have no idea idea there were alligators in that lake, to be honest. Especially when you're in the friendly confines of Disney, I would have thought all wildlife would be evacuated from that park. It's not like you're staying in a wild animal park or something. Poor family.

 

[AkumaNiko]

Great Read

http://www.scarymommy.com/perfect-parents-put-down-pitchforks/?utm_source=FB

 

[GatorBait]

What's up with all the smarty pants regarding the signs?

Just from the discussion with several people it should be obvious that "no swimming" is not a clear sign for many people not to get close to water or they might get dragged to death by a gator.

Yeah, some of you might know better but it seems like people should be more informed about that.

I'm a little confused why this argument has gone on many pages, as well. There is already established legal precedent for this type of thing happening. An ROTC student tried to sue the University of Florida when an alligator bit off his hand in a lake used for recreational and club sports by the university.

 

[Coppanuva]

Living in Minnesota, we're taught from a young age that if there's a lake, you swim in said lake, regardless of time of day. I would have no idea idea there were alligators in that lake, to be honest. Especially when you're in the friendly confines of Disney, I would have thought all wildlife would be evacuated from that park. It's not like you're staying in a wild animal park or something. Poor family.

Outside of the Animal Kingdom which literally IS a wild animal park?

Also do they not talk about how the park is also a wildlife sanctuary or something any more? I think they used to talk about it on the Monorail ride over to EPCOT (which admittedly isn't much messaging, or something everybody rides), just curious if they still do though.

 

[caramac]

WDW covers around 40 sq miles and around a third of that is conservation area, there'll be thousands of gators on Disney property.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Or maybe Disney can use him advertise their Peter Pan movies:

"NO SWIMMING OR YOU'LL GET EATEN BY TICK TOCK" in a playful matter.....

I know you are kidding, but the signs should not be playful but as serious as possible. After all, some Disney Resorts, like Port New Orleans, have playful alligators everywhere in its decoration. I remember alligator band statues at the entrance of the kids playground.

 

[140.85]

Great Read

http://www.scarymommy.com/perfect-parents-put-down-pitchforks/?utm_source=FB

This is great. This mentality has seeped into every tragedy in America lately.

 

[msdstc]

Of the many things I don't understand, the main one here is the incessant need to place blame. It's a terrible situation all around. Bad for the parents. Bad for Disney. Bad for alligators. Worst for the child.

I know personally the reason I'm flipping this on Disney is not so much to pile on them, but to dispel this notion that the parents are at fault for ignoring the sign. My argument is that sign is far from clear of just how dangerous the water really was.

 

[EvilEvoVIII]

Outside of the Animal Kingdom which literally IS a wild animal park?

Also do they not talk about how the park is also a wildlife sanctuary or something any more? I think they used to talk about it on the Monorail ride over to EPCOT (which admittedly isn't much messaging, or something everybody rides), just curious if they still do though.

Proved my point; I have NO idea about Disney. I went there once when I was a kid about 25 years ago and haven't been back since. I would be oblivious to any danger, outside of the gator signs which I would now take very, very seriously if I ever go back.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

I know personally the reason I'm flipping this on Disney is not so much to pile on them, but to dispel this notion that the parents are at fault for ignoring the sign. My argument is that sign is far from clear of just how dangerous the water really was.

So you feel the need to blame someone, and of course a rich company is an available target. I am not saying that Disney should not improve things, but saying that even eith our best efforts accidents can and will happen. You can grieve without the need of blame.

 

[Futureman]

is there a picture of the sign or what it says?

those photos of the beach are pretty wild. Why would they have a beach there if you can literally be killed just standing ankle deep in the water? Do the staff at the resort tell you about the alligators when you check in?

 

[msdstc]

So you feel the need to blame someone, and of course a rich company is an available target. I am not saying that Disney should not improve things, but saying that even eith our best efforts accidents can and will happen. You can grieve without the need of blame.

No I'm saying for those blaming the parents I'm refuting the idea that Disney provided sufficient signage. This notion that the dangers of Gators in Florida is common sense is ridiculously close minded. That being said I DO feel Disney and other areas were negligent in allowing people to get so close to the water, even encouraging it, when all it takes is a slit second for a gator to snap you in the water.

 

[trembli0s]

Of the many things I don't understand, the main one here is the incessant need to place blame. It's a terrible situation all around. Bad for the parents. Bad for Disney. Bad for alligators. Worst for the child.

Agreed. I don't think anyone is at "fault" here. I imagine Disney and the family will settle out in exchange for improved signage and money. The money will never fix what happened but it's more than nothing.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

No I'm saying for those blaming the parents I'm refuting the idea that Disney provided sufficient signage. This notion that the dangers of Gators in Florida is common sense is ridiculously close minded. That being said I DO feel Disney and other areas were negligent in allowing people to get so close to the water, even encouraging it, when all it takes is a slit second for a gator to snap you in the water.

Thing is that this sort of accident is pretty rare, even in Florida. The potential is there, but rarely happens. I think Disney had a little bit overconfidence that they created a controlled envirounment, but reality happened. Of course admiting that you have the risk of alligators attacks in your luxery resort is bad PR, but actually having an accident if that sort is much worse for them. They will take action.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Great Read

http://www.scarymommy.com/perfect-parents-put-down-pitchforks/?utm_source=FB

That was a fantastic and well written piece.

 

[msdstc]

Thing is that this sort of accident is pretty rare, even in Florida. The potential is there, but rarely happens. I think Disney had a little bit overconfidence that they created a controlled envirounment, but reality happened. Of course admiting that you have the risk of alligators attacks in your luxery resort is bad PR, but actually having an accident if that sort is much worse for them. They will take action.

And that further strengthens the argument for the parents. Disney clearly felt confident there was no real threat of Gators, why would a family from nebraska expect anything different.