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[MrBadger]

So what's the lesson here? Besides "Inafune is a business man lol".

I mean can we learn anything from this that's more broadly applicable to future Kickstarters?

To the people saying that the initial proposal was unrealistic from day 1, what were your red flags? And how did projects like Bloodstained and Yooka Layley present themselves differently in those areas?

Interested in hearing more opinions.

I said earlier in the thread, but I backed Yooka Laylee over this because while that game was equally as ambitious, they had a working demo, which was enough to get across what they were making. Once they started getting more money than they needed, they neglected requests to add more content and instead had stuff like "a new rap written by Grant Kirkhope", "orchestral music" and "developer commentary" as stretch goals showing a clear indication that they knew what the scope would be. It also felt like more of a passion project, like they wanted to create this game but weren't able to under Microsoft, so branched out.

There weren't really any red flags for MN9 until later on, but I chose not to back it because it just felt dubious to me. Capcom makes tonnes of Mega Man games under Inafune, Inafune leaves causing Mega Man games to cease production, immediately wants to make another Mega Man game through kickstarter. That and having nothing to show but concept art that just looked like Mega Man but not Mega Man. I got the impression they had ideas, but not a clear plan.

The real red flags for MN9 started to roll out around the time the teaser for the animated series hit the web, and the second kickstarter for the DLC launched.

 

[Toxi]

6.1 community rating

People love Imagine: Party Babyz.

 

[Durante]

Oh ok I think we're a bit more on the same page. Kickstarter doesn't deserve any ire but the developers certainly do.

I'd argue that the backers shouldn't bear *any* of the blame. If anything we should learn to be more cautious in the future but to BLAME us for the game turning out poorly is pretty much complete bullshit. That's solely the developer's fault for mismanaging the project and releasing a bad product.

Obviously I don't mean to blame backers for the (apparently) bad game. What I'm saying is that they -- that is, we -- have to accept that with Kickstarter we bear the risk of a project not turning out like we hope. And that we need to estimate (to the best of our ability) and ultimately accept this risk when pledging.

This should be obvious, but yet I still see people blaming the platform or making their decision on entirely different KS projects because of how some other project turned out. Neither of those is really all that rational.

 

[Teknoman]

Thank you. People need to get over that review. Game had awesome ideas, terribad execution.

I don't think so. It was just different than what people expected. The game plays and controls fine.

What did they rate Sonic 4 Episode 1?

 

[Ifrit]

The dream is dead, I was really looking forward to this game.

I guess Kamiya was right about Inafune

 

[jacobeid]

Obviously I don't mean to blame backers for the (apparently) bad game. What I'm saying is that they -- that is, we -- have to accept that with Kickstarter we bear the risk of a project not turning out like we hope. And that we need to estimate (to the best of our ability) and ultimately accept this risk when pledging.

Ok that's fair.

A large brunt of this has to go to the PR and community managers for the Kickstarter. If they had communicated with us *at all* during development I don't think I'd be so salty.

 

[Chinese Cartoons]

Thank you. People need to get over that review. Game had awesome ideas, terribad execution.

Yes DPS it was the camera which made you lose.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I think the lesson here is nostalgia is dangerous. :E

 

[Stone Ocean]

Yooka Laylee had a very impressive trailer set up and more to show for itself than just unrepresentative concept art. Bloodstained is a similar situation to MN9 to me where it is a successor to a dead franchise by the man most attached to it that launched with no real footage. If Bloodstained went up today, I think people would be a lot more wary of it.

Not quite. Bloodstained was a whole different deal, from how the campaign was run to the whole "this kickstarter is basically a greenlight process, our budget will be much bigger than 500k" deal.

People were already burned out by projects like Mighty No 9 and Project Phoenix by then.

 

[mrmickfran]

And had a terrible camera.

God Hand sucks.

Thank you. People need to get over that review. Game had awesome ideas, terribad execution.

I could write a five paragraph essay on why y'all are wrong, but this ain't the place.

 

[Narroo]

I said earlier in the thread, but I backed Yooka Laylee over this because while that game was equally as ambitious, they had a working demo, which was enough to get across what they were making. Once they started getting more money than they needed, they neglected requests to add more content and instead had stuff like "a new rap written by Grant Kirkhope", "orchestral music" and "developer commentary" as stretch goals showing a clear indication that they knew what the scope would be. It also felt like more of a passion project, like they wanted to create this game but weren't able to under Microsoft, so branched out.

There weren't really any red flags for MN9 until later on, but I chose not to back it because it just felt dubious to me. Capcom makes tonnes of Mega Man games under Inafune, Inafune leaves causing Mega Man games to cease production, immediately wants to make another Mega Man game through kickstarter. That and having nothing to show but concept art that just looked like Mega Man but not Mega Man. I got the impression they had ideas, but not a clear plan.

The real red flags for MN9 started to roll out around the time the teaser for the animated series hit the web, and the second kickstarter for the DLC launched.

And poor Indivisible had to suffer to get funded. People seem to fund based on names and ideas more than content, which is why MN9 happened, and Indivisible almost didn't happen. Meanwhile Yoka seems to be going smoothly since they leveraged their name responsibly.

 

[Nabae]

I hope Bloodstained is better received.

 

[jacob armitage]

You know, i still think i may pick it up. It looks kinda fun and harmless in a way.

Less anyone wants to be a gem and gift me their ps4 key if they're sure they don't want to play it as a present.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I hope Bloodstained is better received.

Gameplay of Bloodstained does look far better and more true to what such a revival should look like.

All I wanted for MN9 is to look like MMX on the SNES. That would've been fine with me. Or else MM7, or Powered Up, or a cleaned up MMX8... basically anything but this lifeless junk they managed to shit out.

 

[silva1991]

Found it!

That was a fun ride, sifting through numerous threads from ages ago with titles like "the game is basically done", "no more delays", "new delay", etc

I'm fucking in.

Take my entire bank account, Kenji!

post if you're ok FourMyle xD

.

I'm dying here.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

This is exactly why I'm opposed to funding games. My condolences to the backers, you deserved much more given how much was funded and how long it took for the game to come out.

Hope Inafune gets major backlash for this. I knew something was up when this guy was announcing Bloodstained last year, without even finishing this project. Absolutely disgusting and repulsive.

Best wishes.

Uh, Keiji Inafune only made the MN9 and Red Ash kickstarters. Igarashi made the Bloodstained Kickstarter. I think you're confusing the two.

 

[Berordn]

Not quite. Bloodstained was a whole different deal, from how the campaign was run to the whole "this kickstarter is basically a greenlight process, our budget will be much bigger than 500k" deal.

People were already burned out by projects like Mighty No 9 and Project Phoenix by then.

Yeah, for Bloodstained we knew from the start that there was a publisher attached and the Kickstarter was just to test the waters. It was only ever intended to be a small chunk of funding, but then it went and exploded. We didn't know that Deep Silver was the interested party, but it also didn't matter much.

Plus we also know they're going the Shovel Knight route of getting the game out first and developing some of the extra features after the fact, with the addition of not having it developed for every platform under the sun.

The whole thing is being managed much more intelligently, and communication is much clearer.

 

[Petrae]

Fantastic.

 

[brandonh83]

This should be obvious, but yet I still see people blaming the platform or making their decision on entirely different KS projects because of how some other project turned out. Neither of those is really all that rational.

Kickstarter isn't the problem. Great things have come from Kickstarter. You're absolutely right, it's not the platform but how artists use it. I've yet to personally back anything on Kickstarter-- I was close with Bloodstained but it was a bad time for me financially-- simply because I don't know how something is going to turn out, despite being hopeful/optimistic. Now that I've seen more of the game and find it to be shaping up rather well, I may still make a pledge if it's still open and if the game turns out to be really good and Igarashi decides to head another Kickstarter project, I would likely pledge.

I think it's good that there's enough people with high enough interest in this stuff to fund right out of the gate no questions asked, but I do think it's the responsibility of the artists to realize that people are throwing them money and good will because of previously established trust. All I'm saying is that people shouldn't let this sour them on supporting projects through Kickstarter in the future and I sincerely hope Bloodstained turns out to be great.

 

[Momentary]

It's crazy that this is the same company making RECORE? Or is Recore a collaboration with another developer? Armature Studios?

 

[diffusionx]

Kickstarter is a mature platform at this point, the gold rush is over, and it's proven to be a viable way to get some games made. It's just a funding mechanism, with plusses and minusses just like every other funding mechanism. Even if a developer gets caught up in the minusses (which, IMO, are things like very little oversight or scrutiny, too easy to overpromise, etc.), it's not KS' fault.

 

[Already Torn]

Those "spiritual successor touching fanarts" really are the worst. I actually think Yookah Laylee is gonna be legit good and it's the only major Kickstarter that I actually backed, but those "old man banjo and Kazooie send out Yookah to finish their adventures" things were so bad I wanted to hurl. And that's assuming Yookah Laylee isn't embarrassing like No.9.

 

[massoluk]

Man, thanks. I wished I saw this earlier lol. The eyes killed it.

 

[DeathSparks]

Went to check on the Mighty No. 9 steam page and...

 

[E92 M3]

As expected, unfortunately.

 

[silva1991]

It's crazy that this is the same company making RECORE? Or is Recore a collaboration with another developer? Armature Studios?

I think different company, but Inafune is at helm?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

It's crazy that this is the same company making RECORE? Or is Recore a collaboration with another developer? Armature Studios?

Armature is doing most of the work. Comcept is basically a publisher. They never work on a project by themselves.

 

[Skilletor]

And poor Indivisible had to suffer to get funded. People seem to fund based on names and ideas more than content, which is why MN9 happened, and Indivisible almost didn't happen. Meanwhile Yoka seems to be going smoothly since they leveraged their name responsibly.

Man, I was going to be so fucking sad if that didn't get funded. LZ runs a great campaign complete with a playable, and very polished, prototype and struggled to make it.

Happy it did in the end, though. Can't wait for that.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

Went to check on the Mighty No. 9 steam page and...

dw they'll kickstart a fix to that typo

 

[DeathSparks]

dw they'll kickstart a fix to that typo

That'll be 1 million dollars.

 

[Reversed]

Went to check on the Mighty No. 9 steam page and...

.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

And poor Indivisible had to suffer to get funded. People seem to fund based on names and ideas more than content, which is why MN9 happened, and Indivisible almost didn't happen. Meanwhile Yoka seems to be going smoothly since they leveraged their name responsibly.

Indivisible suffered because it went for indiegogo instead of KS.

 

[ToastyFrog]

Oh, I forgot that he was involved somehow. Too bad, I would love to read his thoughts on the game, even if they are negative. I wonder who will review it at USGamer then, maybe Bob Mackey?

Yeah, I moderated the PAX panel where MN9 was announced. I literally knew nothing about the game or the nature of the announcement until the video rolled for the audience, but I decided to sit this review out to avoid appearances of impropriety. I'm sure I'll post thoughts about the game. In the meantime, Nadia Oxford is reviewing it — we'd have our review up already except that the publisher inexplicably sent the review copy to the wrong person, and sending it internationally to Nadia took a while (she didn't receive it until today).

 

[Meffer]

Man, I was going to be so fucking sad if that didn't get funded. LZ runs a great campaign complete with a playable, and very polished, prototype and struggled to make it.

Happy it did in the end, though. Can't wait for that.

I'm so glad I funded that and worked hard to spread the word about it.

 

[Meffer]

Indivisible suffered because it went for indiegogo instead of KS.

I don't think that was the reason.

 

[Mega Man's Electric Sheep]

I got the ps4 game today in the mail from amazon and played the intro stage and played and beat the water plant stage after 2 tries. I like it! It is worlds better than the later megaman x titles (x6, x7) and is about on par with something like x8, in that it's fun, but feels a little off the classic titles. To me, it FEELS more like megaman x but PLAYS more like classic megaman. i.e. no walljump. The water/ice boss was quite challenging with just the peashooter, but very satisfying when I killed the bastard after one game over. Very much like megaman x, the stage was easy and the boss was the challenge. I dunno, I like megaman and I like this. I really don't think it's a game that requires much deeper thought or discussion, its an ok game that megaman fans will probably have an ok time with if you get it cheap like I did. And the physical copy comes with the retro dlc, ray dlc, crossbuy ps3/vita, a double sided poster, and a little artbook. Not bad!

 

[DeathSparks]

.

Revolver Ocelot

 

[Tripon]

Armature is doing most of the work. Comcept is basically a publisher. They never work on a project by themselves.

Compect isn't a publisher. They are a design firm that Inafune runs. They basically think up the concept and initial designs for a game, then they look for developers and a publisher to fund them.

 

[Storm Chamber]

This is great

 

[heavy liquid]

I spent $100 on this Kickstarter. If anything, I've taken it as a learning experience. I'm much more wary now, and will not back anything that is going to be made regardless of my input. Even though I've had quite a few positive backings (Grim Dawn, Hyper Light Drifter, Banner Saga), I can't say that the MM9 situation hasn't soured me.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

What's the 8-4 podcast crew saying about this game? Haven't listened to the podcast in 2 years or so but I still remember all their hype and about being involved in the project.

I guess keeping silent is their only option ;P

 

[Teknoman]

I think the lesson here is nostalgia is dangerous. :E

You know what? Honestly Mega Man games of all series types have only been ok after the first few entries. And well, i'm ok with that. I really cant wait till the full game is out in people's hands and they can decide for themselves. Its no where near the trainwreck that people are making it out to be (gameplay wise anyway).

I guess because it was kickstarter backer based, thats why its getting more flack than say...Sonic 4, which looked, played, and sounded alot worse than this.

 

[Gxgear]

Hopefully I can still cancel my amazon order when I get home from work, ugh. Game has never looked good since gameplay footage surfaced, but I (and I'm sure a lot of you as well) wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt.

 

[NastyBook]

I haven't read the entire thread, but which page houses the "Mighty No. 2" post?

 

[Storm Chamber]

Mighty No. 9 |OT| It'll make you cry like a Kickstarter backer on release day

This is fantastic.

 

[Alienous]

Wow.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Mighty No. 9 |OT| Will still score better than Recore

Why?

 

[Saven]

Sounds like this game is a Mighty No. 2 with the critics thus far.

 

[PillarEN]

Jesus that seems like a disaster. Oh well, gonna check to see if the soundtrack is worth anything.

 

[UraMallas]

Can someone explain what this is about?

It appears to be decade old salt. I can't believe what I'm seeing either.