Lord of Ostia
Member
That's a good point, my exposure to the series was with 3 as well. Most modern Persona fans are fans of 3 and 4, which differ greatly from the original two games. And honestly there is nothing wrong with that.
PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
EdReedFan20
Member
Did Ni No Kuni ever release digitally on PS3? I remember the same happening with 3D Dot Game Heroes. That's a game that I'd replay on PS Now, but because it was never released digitally, it's not on PS Now.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Agreed with this as well.
I don't think PS Now was ever meant to be an answer to BC. As you pointed out, look at the platforms PS Now is on. It is even on competing HDTVs. PS Now seems more like trying to get people outside of the PS ecosystem into it.
EdReedFan20
Member
I am dumbfounded why they haven't brought PS Now to PC, though. That seems like such an obvious thing to do in my opinion. Just imagine how many people would give PS Now a try if it came to PC. Personally, I think they should build off of the Remote Play PC/Mac app and turn it into a catchall app. Basically, I'd like to see it do Remote Play, PS Now, PSN Store, PSN features such as friends lists, messaging, chat, etc. I think that would become a truly essential PC/Mac app for all things PlayStation.
Omnistalgic
Member
I think it’s in the plans. I remember the mentioning IOS before in regards to Gaikai. Realistically, as internet keeps improving, the service will likely be pretty good, Sony just has to make sure they re-maket the service at all milestones, so many things are ahead of their time and someone new comes and steals the thunder.
As the rest of the world gets like Japan’s internet, PS now could be very popular, and like you said, especially on PC.
Omnistalgic
Member
I like his take on the TLOU, it's definitely a milestone in the industry. But I also think GTa5 doesn't get enough praise. While I'm not particularly a fan, I can appreciate its brilliance, it's overdone way of representing western culture in satire and humor, and just the sheer variety in the game. No one is really challenge rockstar either like ND. I guess you could make the case for Ubisoft and Crystal dynamics respectively tho.
Ni no Kuni is available digitally (on the PS store of course).
JStein0222
Member
We need a new segment that covers the weekly occurrence of "I just don't want to feel pressure to finish games or play them when I don't feel like it." I get it, but saying that every week on a gaming podcast is hysterical.
So, to be positive, why don't we do a little PlayStation story-time? Maybe you aren't feeling games now, but I would love a little anecdote detailing a moment from youth when you were really jazzed about a certain title, no matter how dumb it turned out to be!
So, to be positive, why don't we do a little PlayStation story-time? Maybe you aren't feeling games now, but I would love a little anecdote detailing a moment from youth when you were really jazzed about a certain title, no matter how dumb it turned out to be!
EDIT: wrong thread.
What I wanted to say in this thread is about The Last Guardian, I don't really understand Colin's point, the game went through development troubles, that also happened with Ico, Gran Turismo 5, the Tomb Raider reboot, the recent Doom, and many more that I'm forgetting. The only thing unique about The Last Guardian is that the development hell period lasted longer, and that can easily be explained by the fact that the game wasn't in active development for a few years (my guess is between 2011-2013).
What I wanted to say in this thread is about The Last Guardian, I don't really understand Colin's point, the game went through development troubles, that also happened with Ico, Gran Turismo 5, the Tomb Raider reboot, the recent Doom, and many more that I'm forgetting. The only thing unique about The Last Guardian is that the development hell period lasted longer, and that can easily be explained by the fact that the game wasn't in active development for a few years (my guess is between 2011-2013).
Nightengale
Member
I find it amusing that a lot of people harp on TLG, FFXV and Duke Nukem in particular, but often ignore other games that took roughly just as long if not more.
Dragon Age Origins took 8 years.
DOOM took 9 years.
Team Fortress 2, 9 years.
TLG will have taken 9 years as well to this point.
FFXV, 10 years.
Ni-Oh is... 12 years.
Dragon Age Origins took 8 years.
DOOM took 9 years.
Team Fortress 2, 9 years.
TLG will have taken 9 years as well to this point.
FFXV, 10 years.
Ni-Oh is... 12 years.
TLG and FF are easy targets because the fanbase is loud, and for some reason those two franchises have very active anti-fanbases.
theindieboy
Member
Another great episode thanks guys, I loved PS Now when in beta and free but most my gaming is on vita on a train with no internet, then rocket league and the months plus titles + whatever big release i fancy dont have the time to use now but if i had more time would use it is great for trophy hunters and people without consoles, was really impressed with the service when i used it, think they should be pushing it more reducing subscription service for plus memebers and would get me on board. But value for money if you don't have a console is really good, and getting people into playstation games that makes them more likely to buy a ps4, think they are in it for the long run in a few years with mobile internet improving and devices improving i can be sat on the train with a phone or even better a vita 2 and play all the games i missed in ps3 era would love that and would spend a lot of money on it, also could lead to the ps5/6 releasing at $99 cause is all streamed from the service so the hardward would upgrade in the backend and would never need to buy a new console.
names2hard4you
Member
Not sure whether I agree with Colin on the whole thing with the team taking so long with the game, since I don't have any of the facts. All I have to say about TLG is this, and do take my opinion however you like since I've never particularly cared about the game, even when it was announced years ago: the game will not fulfil people's expectations, it just won't. Just like FF XV, all those years of waiting will be at the back of everyone's mind whether they like it or not. The game does look charming, but if what the press is saying is true, the game is still riddled with bugs even after this long. Sure maybe the boy and Trico's relationship really is great, and maybe there is a huge pay-off in the end. I don't think the game will be bad. But some people need to keep their expectations in check when it comes to what they think the game will give them.
Same could be said about FF XV in a way. As excited as a younger me from 10 years ago is, fact of the matter is, will all those years waiting be worth it? Is it better to just judge what we get the same way as we do other games with a regular dev cycle? Would that be fair towards those other games?
There are a lot of questions to be answered here, I am super excited to see what the masses say once the games drop, and whether my opinions still do or not align with the majority of everyone else.
Same could be said about FF XV in a way. As excited as a younger me from 10 years ago is, fact of the matter is, will all those years waiting be worth it? Is it better to just judge what we get the same way as we do other games with a regular dev cycle? Would that be fair towards those other games?
There are a lot of questions to be answered here, I am super excited to see what the masses say once the games drop, and whether my opinions still do or not align with the majority of everyone else.
Minustephen
Neo Member
Honestly, im more excited for TLG now than I was before. 10 years ago you knew all too well what you were getting into. Without a game like Ico or SOTC for about a decade, TLG is going to feel fresh. Maybe the development cycle sucked, but I have hope that it'll deliver, at the very least, a unique experience the PS4 library could greatly use.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Yeah, it may come down the road. Sony may be more hesitant with that though. They may be trying to figure out how to implement everything and how much they want PC users to get access to.
Right.
No one is disputing that something went wrong. The dispute is about what went wrong. Some think they just had trouble getting everything going on PS3 and some think they've had people actively developing the same game for ~10 years and are just now getting things right all the while sinking several millions lol.
I'd be satisfied with that as well. It will be fine if TLG isn't a GotG sort of game.
Do you mean unique AAA experiences?
Dangansona
Member
Yeah this is the thing that baffled me the most about Colin's rant about TLG (well, that and that they both don't hold Team Ico in high regard). Who is saying what he is describing that "the ten year development was exactly as planned?" I can't imagine anyone saying that.
I think what people are trying to say about the game is that it wasn't in active development for 10 years. As far as I remember story is something like a slow start in 2006, development of the game went along but they had major problems animating Trico on the PS3, the developed the collection which took parts of the team away (maybe to attempt to get a better handle on the hardware like other devs have done this gen), then it got shifted to PS4 and studio Japan started helping them to finish it. And IIRC at one point it was temporarily shelved. I would look up what Ueda said but I am at work and shouldn't even be typing this.
Colin and Greg in the same episode talked about how the GT director said they had trouble working with the PS3. Is it that hard to imagine Team Ico did as well? At some point that would suggest some developers over there weren't capable of developing this game on a PS3 which may say something about their prowess but not the finished title to me.
And for the last thing, I have said in this thread before that my expectations for this game or FFXV is not a linear curve throughout the 10 years of development. My expectations are very realistic and I looking forward to two unique experiences this fall, not games of the generation. And sadly I think the majority of people are like Colin and Greg and don't care about these games anymore.
Again sorry if this post is a little all over the place, I am sneaking NeoGAF at work at the moment.
Dirtyshubb
Member
I think the thing about Colin's opinion regarding TLG development is that he clearly doesnt get where people are coming from, no matter how much he thinks he does.
He thinks people are saying "But Colin, they said it was fine so it must have been" and his response is "Do you think they planned for a 10 year development cycle? LOL Idiot"
What people are actually saying is "Yeah it might have technically been in development for 10 years but I'm sure overall there were years where basically no work was being done and the teams were working on other games".
For someone with such close and personal relationships and experience with the industry I do find Colin's cynicism and negativity really do get in the way of critical thought sometimes and he almost comes across like some fanboy spouting opinions based on emotion rather than logic. Same goes for his flawed comparison of FF7 and FF7R, not understanding why the idea that remake is a bigger game, even with the fully 3D, expanded areas that used to be a few 2d backdrops in the original.
He thinks people are saying "But Colin, they said it was fine so it must have been" and his response is "Do you think they planned for a 10 year development cycle? LOL Idiot"
What people are actually saying is "Yeah it might have technically been in development for 10 years but I'm sure overall there were years where basically no work was being done and the teams were working on other games".
For someone with such close and personal relationships and experience with the industry I do find Colin's cynicism and negativity really do get in the way of critical thought sometimes and he almost comes across like some fanboy spouting opinions based on emotion rather than logic. Same goes for his flawed comparison of FF7 and FF7R, not understanding why the idea that remake is a bigger game, even with the fully 3D, expanded areas that used to be a few 2d backdrops in the original.
ST2K
Member
So why do people who think this think that key creative talent left the studio? Why do they think Team Ico got dissolved? Why are they not more skeptical of what occurred with this game behind the scenes, considering those factors and the fact that the game has had such a long time from announce to release?
Not saying I agree or disagree with anyone, just would like to see the discussion go a bit further beyond bomb lobbing at each other.
When the company is dissolved and the director leaves and comes back under contract you know shit is fucked up. And I don't buy the excuse of not showing it because of story reasons. It's to mask the roughness of the gameplay and the inevitable result that this game will not live up to the 10 year dev cycle hype.
For me, I just consider it a minor miracle the game exists at all. There is all the reason in the world to think that the development was rocky as hell, but I can't personally drum up the cynicism (and I'm a cynical guy) to go all tin-foil-hat and conjure up water cooler drama about it.
Maybe I'm being a bit more realistic because I was one of the people who thought Ico and SotC were great, but not exactly the second coming of video games the way some did.
This just looks like an interesting game, with a cool visual style and potential to be genuinely emotional. If it doesn't hit on that, that would be a shame, if not entirely surprising considering the consequences. I'm glad we will finally get to see for ourselves, and I'm taking preemptive pity on the people who are expecting this to be more than it was ever going to be.
Dangansona
Member
Like I said, I think the team was legitimately unable to animate Trico and make it work on the PS3 and the game was shelved and some team members left while others worked on the PS3 collection.
I have been plenty skeptical, but I also believe Ueda with what he has told us in the last couple of months which I don't believe has been seen by the majority of games press.
What I was trying to say is I don't think anyone is trying to deny the game has had a messy and unexpected development. However, I don't think it has been all hands on deck for 10 years like some would have you believe.
And here it is again, what 10 year dev cycle hype? Most people are just happy it is coming out, not reaching the pinnacle of 10 years of hype that has only been building throughout missing appearances at game shows and stories of devs leaving.
Nightengale
Member
Er...
1. Company was not dissolved. There was "no company" to begin with. Team Siren/Gravity/Ico are all names attached to various assortment of employees within the Studio Japan ecosystem to have a brand resonance, and this arrangement of attaching team names to projects has stopped in recent years. No longer are Siren games developed by Team Siren or Gravity Daze developed by Team Gravity. They're all just Studio Japan games now.
2. No question there was a lot of friction between Ueda/Sony. Ueda blatantly admitted in interviews that he was against moving the game to PS4 in the beginning. Allan Becker said there were conflicts. Both parties also has chosen to not go into details about what happened during the transition period. But by all accounts, everything that was hinted about the problem they faced were technical and business reasons and less so about creative issues surrounding the game.
3. They've showed 6 minutes of gameplay and one trailer. They've also let press play it for 45 minutes. For what is 8-10 hours of a game that is presumably largely a puzzle platformer, there are not much to show. That's the reality of these kind of games.
4. Of course it won't live up to the 10 year dev hype cycle. No game will. In fact, anyone attaching "hype cycles" to games is stupid.
Tldr; DOOM is such a shit game for what was in development for 9 years. I don't care that it was sooo good, because NINE YEARS WTF WERE YOU DOING ID SOFTWARE
/sarcasm
They literally just had a 45 minute demo for the press to play and a lengthy preview from IGN before E3 where have you been?
I have yet so see a single shred of evidence pointing to the notion that the game has been in active development for 10 years and the dev troubles were more then just technical reasons. They havse been a tone of evidence pointing the the contrary though.
names2hard4you
Member
Well... sarcasm aside, sure but DOOM changed directions completely from what was shown before and what was released this year (afaik, I haven't played the game yet). TLG... looks the same. And seems to play the same as it did back then. There was no huge change in direction or vision, just technology. Should that have taken 10 years? Who knows. We weren't insiders over at Team Ico's development office.
There's simply no way they took 10years to develop this (heck I really hope not, if I worked for them I'd be banging my head against a wall)
I think it's fair to say Sony wouldn't have funded 10 years of continuous development spanning two console generations for a game that clearly wasn't majorly revised (or at least not discernibly) and that will likely sell 3 million copies if we go by the most optimistic of forecasts. So yeah... I agree.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
No game has ever been in development for 10 years. They shelf them, change teams, change engines, change platforms, etc. They dont literally work on games like FFxv or Doom for 10 years straight.
Yeah, and that's basically exactly what Sony is saying so I really don't get what Colin is arguing. They couldn't get it to run on PS3, and it doesn't matter what the game LOOKS like. If the engine is hard to get to work on PS3, it's very, very possible that downgrading the visuals into oblivion will not change a thing. Hell, they had trouble getting Silent Hill 2 to run as-is on PS3 due to the way the system handled the fog in the game in comparison to the PS2. If the engine and game weren't working in tandem with the PS3 hardware, it's likely that they needed to do a lot of reworking that would've been too costly in comparison to projections of the game's sales.
Basically, what Sony is saying makes perfect, absolute sense. They never said development was going smoothly, they said it wasn't running on PS3. Everything lines up, and I can't think of a scenario that makes more sense than what they're saying. In fact, I can't think of an alternate scenario that makes ANY sense at all.
I also think saying SOTC aged poorly is a strange statement, as I really can't think of a game that does what SOTC tried to do at all, let alone one that does it better and makes SOTC feel old.
LightOfTruth
Member
At this point I think that there are just as many people expecting TLG to disappoint as much as there are people thinking it will live up to expectations.
I'm the guy that thinks SOTC is "game of the generation" material, and that thinks team Ico/Japan studio and Ueda are one of a kind. If we forget about the development issues for the moment, I would naturally expect for this game to be as good as Ico. Ico was a really unique game that had a profound emotional impact for me personally. Solving puzzles, the feeling of discovery and a grand adventure, and connecting to another character is what that game did for me at a very high quality. All I want from TLG is to do that again. I would absolutely expect that if you didn't like Ico, you won't like TLG. They seem pretty similar in what they're going for.
Therefore, given what they've shown of the game, and that Sony repeatedly stated that the development issues were all technical (not creative), if I am disappointed then it'll be because the game doesn't measure up to Ico. Ico is the only game that TLG should be compared it to. And seeing as how Colin doesnt like Ico (or says that he thinks it doesn't hold up at all), I can't see him not being disappointing.
And the controls/camera will totally be clunky. I am absolutely expecting that.
I'm the guy that thinks SOTC is "game of the generation" material, and that thinks team Ico/Japan studio and Ueda are one of a kind. If we forget about the development issues for the moment, I would naturally expect for this game to be as good as Ico. Ico was a really unique game that had a profound emotional impact for me personally. Solving puzzles, the feeling of discovery and a grand adventure, and connecting to another character is what that game did for me at a very high quality. All I want from TLG is to do that again. I would absolutely expect that if you didn't like Ico, you won't like TLG. They seem pretty similar in what they're going for.
Therefore, given what they've shown of the game, and that Sony repeatedly stated that the development issues were all technical (not creative), if I am disappointed then it'll be because the game doesn't measure up to Ico. Ico is the only game that TLG should be compared it to. And seeing as how Colin doesnt like Ico (or says that he thinks it doesn't hold up at all), I can't see him not being disappointing.
And the controls/camera will totally be clunky. I am absolutely expecting that.
JStein0222
Member
I'd love a TotS to be building the Vita's successor. One of these weeks it would be cool to talk about games, advertising, connectivity to PS4, software and hardware for a dream successor to the Vita
Doom (2016) lol.
Rebooted and started in 2008 I think.
LA Noire was ok.
There likely won't be a successor to the Vita. It's why you don't hear much about that kind of talk.
Nightengale
Member
Red Dead Redemption
LA Noire
DA: Origins
Max Payne 3
Team Fortress 2
DOOM
Diablo 3
Not a whole load of examples, but there's also not many games that went through at least 7 years of development
There are lots of examples, but I think the better way to approach this is to look at the facts. We have no reason to doubt that what Sony said about the game is false. So the game will certainly be dated, as it was designed quite a while ago and Ueda said that pretty much nothing changed on that front. I think it's fair to say that we can expect it to be around the same level of quality that SOTC and Ico were. I don't expect it to be as good as SOTC, because that game was a masterpiece to me. It would be quite hard to top it, but one can hope! These games are flawed, their controls aren't the most precise, they're plagued with technical issues, etc... but they're also one of a kind in pretty much every conceivable way. More of that is what makes TLG appealing to me.
inbarrenpraise
Banned
I don't think ANYONE has ever said that TLG's development was "hunky dory" but you have to be similarly delusional to think that Ueda and Sony would continue to put up the risk involved to keep the project going for this many years over a game they knew was going to be bad. Ueda left Sony and became a freelance contractor for TLG working to finish the game as they remade it for the PS4. I don't know why on Earth Ueda would bother risking his name and career on a game he knew would be a failure. He could have dropped it and moved on to another product.
Omnistalgic
Member
Yeah, Colin and Greg hosting my question from their blog on TLG. I said they usually champion different games and I was disappointed they were so down on TLG being good. I mean, Ico and SotC arent exactly technical wizards either, its mostly the art style and simple presentation that IMO make them good fits for games standing the test of time.
SotC, even with its wonky controls still plays really well, especially the remaster on PS3. ICO however, stands up even better since its basically a giant puzzle with you holding Yordas hand and very minimalistic combat. I kinda highlighted SotC in my post to them but I really wanted to highlight ICO is a game that can still be enjoyed 10 years from now, its a classic in my humble opinion.
But yeah, I think we can all agree that TLG went through development hell, some fights were had, some people were disgruntled, some people left, all of the above. I just dont think it was this huge money sink for Sony as the team is never that big to begin with, and I doubt it was 10+ years of active development. Logically, the game was probably just sitting there with no one working on it for a while. I would love to hear the inside story though, Ueda should put a behind the scenes on the Blu-ray version. So yeah, colin hope you read this, were all mostly in agreement here, just dont think it was a huge money sink for Sony as many outlets are likely reporting.
SotC, even with its wonky controls still plays really well, especially the remaster on PS3. ICO however, stands up even better since its basically a giant puzzle with you holding Yordas hand and very minimalistic combat. I kinda highlighted SotC in my post to them but I really wanted to highlight ICO is a game that can still be enjoyed 10 years from now, its a classic in my humble opinion.
But yeah, I think we can all agree that TLG went through development hell, some fights were had, some people were disgruntled, some people left, all of the above. I just dont think it was this huge money sink for Sony as the team is never that big to begin with, and I doubt it was 10+ years of active development. Logically, the game was probably just sitting there with no one working on it for a while. I would love to hear the inside story though, Ueda should put a behind the scenes on the Blu-ray version. So yeah, colin hope you read this, were all mostly in agreement here, just dont think it was a huge money sink for Sony as many outlets are likely reporting.
Haha just that title annoys me, I'm not in the mood for that conversation right now.
Yeah lol.
Without listening to it I would say Microsoft has done a better job in the exclusivity in quality and quantity from launch till now. But Q4 2016 and on is when sonys big hitters are finally arriving consistently.
VanCityGamer
Member
That Colin rant was super weird.
I can't think of a single time I've ever read or heard anything say that TLG's long development cycle was planned from the beginning or intended. Pretty sure 99.99% of the people know the project is/was troubled.
Seems like such a weird thing to go on about when maybe 4 people in the world think that way.
I can't think of a single time I've ever read or heard anything say that TLG's long development cycle was planned from the beginning or intended. Pretty sure 99.99% of the people know the project is/was troubled.
Seems like such a weird thing to go on about when maybe 4 people in the world think that way.
I haven't touched RC and U4 yet and I'm not a souls fan. But I agree that this was the year sony stuff finally started coming.