The Labour Party has convinced me that 2-party governance making people upset that they don't have "better" (aka vanity) options is a feature, not a bug.
Bernie Sanders to House Democrats - 'Our goal is not to win elections' - Gets booed.
- Thread starter SlimySnake
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Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Booing or cheering in the House or Senate is not uncommon, just as it is in just about every legislature in the world.
Fancyarcher
Member
I actually get what Sanders is saying, I just think he poorly paraphrased or perhaps he was misquoted. Either way, you really can't please everyone, and the political system is corrupt at is, that it's very complicated.
Plus the democrats were not acting the most respectful about the situation either.
Plus the democrats were not acting the most respectful about the situation either.
perfectchaos007
Member
Disgusting. The people should always come before your political party. Preach Bernie.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
If the elected official doesn't win then they weren't making the changes the people want and the people have elected a different person to make the changes they want.
I don't see a problem. These guys in the house and Senate need to stop thinking about job security and thinking about Americans.
Now, obviously some of the House Democrats are getting frustrated with him taking so long to endorse (and I agree), but let's not blow this up too much when there's progress being made today:
Politico: Sanders endorsement talks heat up
Also:
https://twitter.com/mitchellreports/status/750806523832627200
Politico: Sanders endorsement talks heat up
Also:
https://twitter.com/mitchellreports/status/750806523832627200
He has great solutions. Ideal solutions. Single payer, European style college systems, redistribution a of wealth to combat growing inequality etc. Proven ones.
His issue is he is good at identifying Problem A and Solution C, but pathway B that gets us to C is a mess. If it exists at all.
Instead of pie in the sky single payer or bust, how about also talking up a gateway like a public option and drug reform? Which seems to be the most reasonable next step for reform. Bernie has no interest in that and I think it is too his detriment a bit.
Is "scattered boos" the same thing as facing down a whole house of people booing you? I think of the latter but I find it hard to imagine the entire Democratic confernece booing Bernie Sanders.
I think this scene, while kinda ridiculous, sums up how badly Bernie has squandered his potential leverage for beyond 2016. Most of his supporters are already flocking to Hillary without his endorsement anyway, and he's pissing off more people than he's endearing in Congress -- the same people that he has to work with as senator, and would've had to work with as president, to push more progressive policies into law. He's going to return to the Senate with no new power.
I think this scene, while kinda ridiculous, sums up how badly Bernie has squandered his potential leverage for beyond 2016. Most of his supporters are already flocking to Hillary without his endorsement anyway, and he's pissing off more people than he's endearing in Congress -- the same people that he has to work with as senator, and would've had to work with as president, to push more progressive policies into law. He's going to return to the Senate with no new power.
No. The sentiment that discourages voting is politicians getting elected that are concerned more about reelection than getting shit done.
Politicians are elected to serve the people they represent. They weren't elected to raise money for more elections. They weren't elected to ensure that the president is a one-term president. They are elected to GOVERN.
jack_package_200
Banned
Blame the Republicans. They are the ones who have been obstructing. Vote THEM out of office.
andythinkpad
Member
Haha Jeremy Corbyn would get murdered in the US.
Dash_Riprock
Member
He's getting murdered in the UK too, by his own party no less.
I mean, the booing is a bit rude and kind of unprofessional, but then I remember he's in a room full of people who have to worry about extremely tight House races where half the time the Democratic base simply doesn't fucking show up (midterms).
So the person who joined the party last year who has an extremely safe seat in Vermont who isn't up until 2018 telling the people, people whose best chance at recapturing the House is through a strong Presidential campaign that affects down ballot, that he needs to transform America...
So the person who joined the party last year who has an extremely safe seat in Vermont who isn't up until 2018 telling the people, people whose best chance at recapturing the House is through a strong Presidential campaign that affects down ballot, that he needs to transform America...
Leeroy3101
Banned
Sad state of affairs when the SCOTUS ends up being the branch making large change.
We should keep turning our head at the awful amount of money in politics, ignore calculated flopping on issues to favor electability, and accept cringe worthy pandering?
Fancyarcher
Member
Well, he was an independent who was essentially as a democratic for political / politician reasons.
I'm sorry, Sanders is the epitome of a politician that doesn't get shit done.
This shit sounds almost like it was borrowed verbatim from some right wing anti-Obama site and had the names swapped.
Fancyarcher
Member
Well it's never gonna easy to transform a country, especially one that is so much corruption in charge, even if many people are dissatisfied by it.
I admire Bernie's enthusiasm, but I think he may have been a little in over his head, although I guess, that's putting it lightly.
Dash_Riprock
Member
But he marched with MLK!
jack_package_200
Banned
his goal wasn't to win elections. Their goal sometimes is only to win elections.
cynical lol
Someone isn't following the line of the party and you boo him in the house? What's this, a schoolyard? Seriously, our AI overlords can't come soon enough.
EDIT: smh at all the people in here saying they did good and he was weak. Is this all what politic is about? Display of strenghts? Not confrontation of ideas anymore? Enjoy your Trumps from here to the end of eternity.
EDIT: smh at all the people in here saying they did good and he was weak. Is this all what politic is about? Display of strenghts? Not confrontation of ideas anymore? Enjoy your Trumps from here to the end of eternity.
The House of Representatives has some startlingly immature members. I think that because there are so many, they get away with it more.
He's an idealist. They serve a function and are valuable to have.
Idealists are what get young people hooked, involved, passionate. Preferably you want an idealist that is also a shrewd but honorable politician like an FDR, JFK or Johnson(maybe in more modern times Warren) but Sanders has definite value. That Barney Frank quote though is a good summary of his critical flaw.
Fancyarcher
Member
I can't necessarily agree that Bernie is a useless politician, especially since I'm actually from Vermont. Vermont is actually a very nice place to live, although I'm not sure if Sanders had anything to do with that, or that's just the people.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Then when that change doesn't come overnight as expected, the voters that were attracted choose not to show up out of frustration two years later and thus helps cause the erasure of any progress gained in that two years.
MHWilliams
Member
Booing Sanders was unprofessional and honestly reflects poorly on them.
Sanders' statement is nonsense as a reply for an endorsement timeline. Winning reelection requires listening to a majority of your local or state district, extreme gerrymandering aside.
Job security comes from those Americans, you realize. I'm perplexed at trying to separate this for politicians voted into office.
Let's not downplay the work and effort he has previously put in as an elected official now.
Sanders' statement is nonsense as a reply for an endorsement timeline. Winning reelection requires listening to a majority of your local or state district, extreme gerrymandering aside.
Job security comes from those Americans, you realize. I'm perplexed at trying to separate this for politicians voted into office.
Let's not downplay the work and effort he has previously put in as an elected official now.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
I blame both sides. Vote out every politician more concerned about their job security than the American people they were elected to represent.
Any politician focusing their time and money on elections moreso than compromising on meaningful changes is disgusting.
I'm sorry, the bolded is pretty much a ridiculous argument. On one hand "listen to the voters" on the other "you now agree with my views, you horrible flip flopper!!". Do you want politicians to evolve their views or not as information becomes available or as they hear from constituents concerns? Do you have the same views on everything since you were born, and if you do are you over the age of 12?
echoshifting
Banned
Nobody looks good here.
jack_package_200
Banned
Its BECAUSE of the republicans.
And you know who else I am going to blame? Voters, mainly young people, who do not go out and vote during midterm elections.
If they had bothered, the republicans would not control congress.
And no both sides are not the fucking same.
I don't really see how people don't want to understand the context of what he's saying. It seems like he's pretty much making this point, albeit worded a bit awkwardly. It doesn't seem too crazy that politicians should put their constituents before their careers.
Fancyarcher
Member
Young people don't care enough about elections. Can't really blame them honestly. Everyone just appears so corrupt and wrong.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Sadly their re-election is likely based more on the tv ads, radio ads, signs, ground games, and their staff running such activities. That stuff takes time away from policy decisions.
And let's be honest here. Policy decisions don't matter to the general public as much as the letter behind the representatives name. Too many in this country are riding the party ticket regardless of the individuals accomplishments or lack thereof.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its a weird point to make in response to "are you going to endorse Clinton?". Its very easy to read it as "there are more important things than Clinton winning" at a time in our country where there really aren't
It's actually kind of funny to see this kind of reaction to booing in a closed door meeting. The British do it openly on camera during official proceedings. Not that I think we should emulate them, but it's sort of a testament to how dull things are usually in the American legislative branch that this is some kind of news lol
kingkaiser
Member
Everything berns
Azure Dream
Member
And the system is now designed to actively keep them from voting, especially if they're poor or minority.
Tell that to the Republicans. I havent seen much problem with Democrats on governance.
The underlying point about changing America is essentially pablum and doesn't respond any of the Democrats' concerns, legitimate or not. Plus, I'm pretty sure Sanders was never the most liked guy in the Democratic caucus, and the primary can't have done him any favors in that regard.
Wrapping it in a comment about winning elections not being important is tone-deaf at best given that he's speaking to a bunch of politicians in the thick of trying to get re-elected. To say nothing of the fact that the Party's general inability to leverage their larger voter base into electoral victories has denied them the Congressional majorities needed to enact the kind of transformative change Sanders is ostensibly advocating for in the first place.
Still, I don't think anyone looks particularly good here.
Wrapping it in a comment about winning elections not being important is tone-deaf at best given that he's speaking to a bunch of politicians in the thick of trying to get re-elected. To say nothing of the fact that the Party's general inability to leverage their larger voter base into electoral victories has denied them the Congressional majorities needed to enact the kind of transformative change Sanders is ostensibly advocating for in the first place.
Still, I don't think anyone looks particularly good here.
I think so too, but I also maybe think the media is sensationalising this whole thing and making it worse than it really was for clicks.
Considering that you're voting for Trump, I think you have given up your right to complain about the things you're complaining about.
He said the young, if anything they have the knowledge to find the means to vote no matter what.
Fancyarcher
Member
Really, most of the powerful people in charge just don't want any major changes to happen. The whole system is in a bit of a sad state of affairs.
jack_package_200
Banned
But Dems and Repubs are the same thing !!! /s
Ohhhh makes a bit more sense.
Voting Trump would fuck up having a democratic supreme court and the rights of women, minorities, and LBGT. It would undo all the progress made in the last 8 years.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Give me a more promising third party or a more promising Democrat and I'll gladly reconsider.
I'm pretty sure a voting American has just as much right to complain about the elected officials as any other voting American. You know -- free speech and all.
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