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[JonathanEx]

Labour announce within 6 minutes the need for a snap election and then a leadership contest.

Fucking hell.

Do you think, if Corbyn wins the leadership challenge, and then there were a snap election following, would he resign if Labour didn't win?

Because right now I sort of think he might try and stay on.

Also yes jesus christ what a fucking moronic leadership to call for it.

 

[Meadows]

ftfy

I know! I voted Remain!

 

[Hazzuh]

Do you think, if Corbyn wins the leadership challenge, and then there were a snap election following, would he resign if Labour didn't win?

Because right now I sort of think he might try and stay on.

What happens in a doomsday cult after the world doesn't end?

 

[Meadows]

Do you think, if Corbyn wins the leadership challenge, and then there were a snap election following, would he resign if Labour didn't win?

Because right now I sort of think he might try and stay on.

Also yes jesus christ what a fucking moronic leadership to call for it.

It's hard to tell really.

 

[SuperSah]

Sooooo

what happens now? Does May auto become PM or something or does she have to wait for Cameron's time to run out?

 

[JonathanEx]

What happens in a doomsday cult after the world doesn't end?

They look at their diary, go oh we calculated it wrong, and plan for the next one. That's what happens in Parks and Rec with their local nutters.

 

[Coriolanus]

Do you think, if Corbyn wins the leadership challenge, and then there were a snap election following, would he resign if Labour didn't win?

eh, there'd really be no reason for him to stay on, would there? I mean, what can one expect after that point?

EDIT: why would they call for a snap election when they'll get decimated.

going out on a leg, i'd guess they think it'll force labour to rally.

 

[norinrad]

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/752461407556366336
Eagle asked why she can beat May, simply replies: "Because she's a Tory".

JFC

lol, she's mental.

 

[Meadows]

Sooooo

what happens now? Does May auto become PM or something or does she have to wait for Cameron's time to run out?

We have to wait for the Queen to come back to London and for the constitutional shit that has to happen for the change to be made. It'll probably be 3 or 4 days.

 

[Maledict]

To be clear, this is the same Labour party that informally announced their refusal to be led by Corbyn before he was even elected to the position? I wonder why he's been so unsuccessful.

No they didn't. Stop making stuff up. The idea the entire PLP has been dissected multiple times. The number of MPs who were against Corbyn from the very start has always been very small. The vast majority of party MPs were willing to give it a go.

After a year of his leadership, labour are now looking at:

1) historically bad polling at this stage in the cycle, where labour should by all accounts be doing much better

2) labour *voters* saying in record numbers they can't vote for Corbyn - 30% in some polls. Same feedback was being given on the doorstep during the EU referendum according to the volunteers and activists I know.

3) the Uk leaving the EU, with a party leader who seems happy with that and undermined the campaign to stay in. Just like Trident, the MPs view that as breaking the deal the party had with Corbyn,

Corbyn has been unsuccessful because he's just a really bad leader. Blair managed to do so much despite facing a decade of attacks and opposition from Brown that was far worse than anything Corbyn had to deal with. Hell, Ed had to deal with worse. Corbyn is simply not up to the job in any way, shape or form.

 

[JonathanEx]

eh, there'd really be no reason for him to stay on, would there? I mean, what can one expect after that point?

There's no reason to now, but he still is

 

[SuperSah]

We have to wait for the Queen to come back to London and for the constitutional shit that has to happen for the change to be made. It'll probably be 3 or 4 days.

Ironic how 'democracy' works.

48% of the country says no. 52% deemed an 'overwhelming majority'.

0 of 150,000 members entered a final vote. Woman becomes PM merely by forfeit.

Democracy

 

[Meadows]

In other news Angela Eagle's leadership election logo looks like a daytime TV title card.

 

[Coriolanus]

There's no reason to now, but he still is

"will of the people".

Tbf, labour would be in a far better position right now if the MPs hadn't decided to try to oust him without the means to ensure that it'd, y'know, happen. United front against fractured tories and allathat.

alas, coulda shoulda woulda

 

[Maledict]

eh, there'd really be no reason for him to stay on, would there? I mean, what can one expect after that point?

He doesn't expect, or want, to win. To quote his office from last week - they aren't looking to form an alternate government, they want to form a social uprising. He's literally preaching the failed politics of the 70s left.

Assuming they lose the election, he will stay on, and his supporters will blame labour Mps for undermining him and that they lost because people didn't understand his message enough.

It's literally the 80s come again. And, once again, labour will at some point grow the fuck up and realise winning elections is what counts before anything else. But until that point the membership will keep voting Corbyn in - after all, the majority of them aren't suffering from austerity anyway. White middle class liberals aren't exactly suffering under the bedroom tax, or in work poverty...

 

[Meadows]

Unicredit finance group happy with May as PM. Got this from the FT, but basically a release they put out on the news about why this is positive:

---

1 - It is widely thought that Theresa May is more likely to seek a “soft Brexit” (sometimes called the “Norwegian plus” option) from the EU, which maintains access to the European single market, including financial services, and some (crucially largely symbolic) restriction on free movement.

2 - It avoids a two-month long leadership campaign and lifts one source of uncertainty in the UK. Leadsom risked splitting the Conservative Party and an early general election, in part because of her hard line on Brexit, and in part because she has little or no experience at the top level of government

 

[Hasney]

In other news Angela Eagle's leadership election logo looks like a daytime TV title card.

I'd probably be more likely to vote for Loraine Kelly....

 

[Dobsie]

What's the latest on Switzerland and the quotas they want to introduce on immigration?

 

[SKINNER!]

Ironic how 'democracy' works.

48% of the country says no. 52% deemed an 'overwhelming majority'.

0 of 150,000 members entered a final vote. Woman becomes PM merely by forfeit.

Democracy

Considering I am - roughly - aware of how old you are based on your posts from Britgaf, I am somewhat surprised at how young people are already so pessimistic about democracy.

 

[twobear]

He doesn't expect, or want, to win. To quote his office from last week - they aren't looking to form an alternate government, they want to form a social uprising. He's literally preaching the failed politics of the 70s left.

Assuming they lose the election, he will stay on, and his supporters will blame labour Mps for undermining him and that they lost because people didn't understand his message enough.

It's literally the 80s come again. And, once again, labour will at some point grow the fuck up and realise winning elections is what counts before anything else. But until that point the membership will keep voting Corbyn in - after all, the majority of them aren't suffering from austerity anyway. White middle class liberals aren't exactly suffering under the bedroom tax, or in work poverty...

White middle class liberals also largely didn't vote for it either. What exactly is your point here, that white middle class liberals should vote for things they don't want and believe are damaging to everybody on the grounds that it makes them look politically credible?

 

[shinra-bansho]

1 - It is widely thought that Theresa May is more likely to seek a “soft Brexit” (sometimes called the “Norwegian plus” option) from the EU, which maintains access to the European single market, including financial services, and some (crucially largely symbolic) restriction on free movement.

This frankly seems fanciful, I don't see the EU caving on one of their core tenets, while basically giving the UK all the access they want.

EDIT: I should probably clarify, I don't think you're being fanciful, but the note is.

 

[SuperSah]

Considering I am - roughly - aware of how old you are based on your posts from Britgaf, I am somewhat surprised at how young people are already so pessimistic about democracy.

I'm 20.

I'm not 'pessimistic' about democracy. I just find it ironic how everyone keeps shouting 'democracy!' yet current events resemble everything but.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

This frankly seems fanciful, I don't see the EU caving on one of their core tenets, while basically giving the UK all the access they want.

Whether she gets it or not is not important at this stage. I think the implication is that we at least now have a leader who has some plan on what to do next, has some experience in government and isn't batshit insane. That might be enough to calm the waters for now.

The fact that she was quietly a remain supporter has gone unnoticed either, I bet.

 

[PJV3]

If they have a plausible alternative, why not put them forward now and actually try and convince Corbyn's supporters instead of trying to force him out on a technicality with a leader that nobody seems all that committed to?

The one doing the stabbing isn't usually very successful or liked, that sort of thing is usually tolerated more in the conservative party.

If she wins I just don't see her hanging around for long. I know Corbyn has to go but I'm not happy with the PLPs behaviour either.

 

[Maledict]

White middle class liberals also largely didn't vote for it either. What exactly is your point here, that white middle class liberals should vote for things they don't want and believe are damaging to everybody on the grounds that it makes them look politically credible?

I'm saying that making the party platform be about opposing austerity, and failing to notice that the people being affected by austerity were voting for it, is a mistake. That labours membership wants to lead the working class rather than *be* the working class. That we lost the argument on austerity 6 years ago and yet still haven't come up with an alternative vision other than opposing it.

Ultimately, the party is being driven by people who can afford to lose the next election. Another 5 years of conservative rule won't hurt them, and they would rather be right than be in power. It's very easy to take a principled stance when losing doesn't impact on you.

 

[Zaph]

This frankly seems fanciful, I don't see the EU caving on one of their core tenets, while basically giving the UK all the access they want.

Yup. I don't see the EU being vindictive (it goes against everyone's best interests), but who can blame taking a hard-line stance on one of the four freedoms, no matter how symbolic? Any movement there would send a terrible message to the remaining member states and give the right-wing uprising something real to harp on about.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Ultimately, the party is being driven by people who can afford to lose the next election. Another 5 years of conservative rule won't hurt them, and they would rather be right than be in power. It's very easy to take a principled stance when losing doesn't impact on you.

This in a nutshell, why I feel corybn and his supporters are such assholes right now.

 

[Hazzuh]

Angry Leave voter on Radio 5 saying that May failed on cutting migration already so he doesn't trust her. Seems like a good attack for UKIP.

 

[Zafir]

Considering I am - roughly - aware of how old you are based on your posts from Britgaf, I am somewhat surprised at how young people are already so pessimistic about democracy.

I don't think it's that surprising. The last time any one reached out to the younger voters, it was in relation to the University fees. Lib Dems got in power and was unable to stop them from increasing, which of course meant a lot of the voters felt betrayed.

Now they overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU, but ultimately that plea will be ignored due to leave winning by a slight majority as the older generation felt differently.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Angry Leave voter on Radio 5 saying that May failed on cutting migration already so he doesn't trust her. Seems like a good attack for UKIP.

Meh.

Ukip can bay from the sidelines all they want. In 4 years time, when the reality of leaving hits people, there will be far less appetite for their platform.

Besides, for better or worse UKIP already got what they want. There is literally jackshit they can do that won't already be done by a conservative government.

 

[SKINNER!]

I don't think it's that surprising. The last time any one reached out to the younger voters, it was in relation to the University fees. Lib Dems got in power and was unable to stop them from increasing, which of course meant a lot of the voters felt betrayed.

Now they overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU, but ultimately that plea will be ignored due to leave winning by a slight majority as the older generation felt differently.

It's genuinely worrying. Real voting/political reform needs to happen to ensure young people are better represented and heard.. Young people are quickly understanding how the system works from an early age thanks to the internet so it's not an excuse about "Oh, they don't know shit".

 

[CyclopsRock]

I'm 20.

I'm not 'pessimistic' about democracy. I just find it ironic how everyone keeps shouting 'democracy!' yet current events resemble everything but.

I wouldn't say it's "anything but", really. The result of the referendum is clear and the government will basically stay the same, as is appropriate given the make up of the House of Commons is the same.

 

[ultratruman]

If the PLP want to take back control, they need to have a fully open primary with online registration. Leaving the door open to entryist far-left politicos, but not the general public, was a mistake.

 

[Ghost]

Good. If Brexit accomplishes one good thing it's the chance to maybe have England snap out of it's diet of populist morons, Murdoch media and blaming outsiders for the problems in our own country.

Won't take long for the economic damage to hit the budget and social services. That should be fun.

It really won't happen that way, outsiders take the blame no matter how integrated they are, being shut out of the EU decision making process will make it even easier for the right wing to blame the EU for everything that happens as a result of Brexit. Factory closed? EU CARTEL STOLE YOUR JOB, prices rise? EU TARIFFS LEAVE BRITAIN PENNILESS.

All leaving does in this regard is cement the us vs them agenda.

 

[Vanguard]

Calls for a general election from opposition parties now due to recent news: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ollowing-theresa-may-coronation-a7130896.html

 

[Zaph]

Great. Lets give the Tories even more seats.

 

[kmag]

Meh.

Ukip can bay from the sidelines all they want. In 4 years time, when the reality of leaving hits people, there will be far less appetite for their platform.

Besides, for better or worse UKIP already got what they want. There is literally jackshit they can do that won't already be done by a conservative government.

Not really, that's the beauty of the brexiters abdication of responsibility. Regardless of what happens even if it's positive (unlikely) they can argue that they'd have gotten a better deal and things would have been far better under them because they'd have really stuck it to the EU. Even if May turned around and said no deal, we'll leave, WTO rules, they'd be saying they'd have gotten a deal on the UK's terms (free market access) with none of the negative things.

And the morons who make up the slight majority of the electorate would eat it up, because ultimately it panders to their preconceptions about Europe and their fantasies about the U.K, no Englands place in the world.

 

[Ushojax]

There is some delicious salt spewing out from Leadsom's campaign team:

"It is absolutely not the job of media commentators to ‘big up’ politicians, whether in this leadership contest or elsewhere in politics. But neither should it be their compulsion constantly to try to trip them up. Using spin and underhand tactics against decent people whose prime motivation is to serve has for too long undermined the confidence of the public in our politics. This need not be inevitable. It is this much needed fresh start to how we do our politics that was to be the centrepiece of Andrea’s campaign and which we must together progress whatever her role in the future."

Truly laughable, if it weren't for media commentators 'bigging up' Leadsom she would never have made it this far. She's an utterly unqualified cretin and her reaction to a straightforward newspaper story shows she doesn't have the character to be a top level politician.

 

[Ghost]

The only chance for a general election was probably Leadsom getting elected by the party members and having a corbyn style revolt to generate the 2/3rds of MPs you would need.

May has said she doesn't want one, she has more than enough MPs to make sure it doesn't happen.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Not really, that's the beauty of the brexiters abdication of responsibility. Regardless of what happens even if it's positive (unlikely) they can argue that they'd have gotten a better deal and things would have been far better under them because they'd have really stuck it to the EU. Even if May turned around and said no deal, we'll leave, WTO rules, they'd be saying they'd have gotten a deal on the UK's terms (free market access) with none of the negative things.

And the morons who make up the slight majority of the electorate would eat it up, because ultimately it panders to their preconceptions about Europe and their fantasies about the U.K, no Englands place in the world.

I'm not convinced that UKIP will be able to make as much inroads simply because it's one thing to energise such people for a referendum, another entirely for a general election.

I do feel they can put some serious hurt on labour in the north, but even then we are looking at a 10-15% gain in MPs. Which for UKIP would amount to little more than a handful of seats.

We will see more gains for the lib Dems than UKIP in a 2020 general.

 

[twobear]

I'm saying that making the party platform be about opposing austerity, and failing to notice that the people being affected by austerity were voting for it, is a mistake. That labours membership wants to lead the working class rather than *be* the working class. That we lost the argument on austerity 6 years ago and yet still haven't come up with an alternative vision other than opposing it.

Ultimately, the party is being driven by people who can afford to lose the next election. Another 5 years of conservative rule won't hurt them, and they would rather be right than be in power. It's very easy to take a principled stance when losing doesn't impact on you.

Corbyn came up with an alternative vision. Corbyn/McDonnell's economic policies were basically sensible. Don't mistake your refusal to listen to them with their not existing. From the very beginning the PLP has pushed the debate in the direction of Corbyn's credentials as a leader rather than the content of what he has to say. The only revisionism being pushed here is your insistence that the PLP wanted anything to do with him when he barely scraped the required 35 nominations and the only narrative being pushed during his election campaign was that anyone who nominated him was a moron.

 

[Monty Mole]

Calls for a general election from opposition parties now due to recent news: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ollowing-theresa-may-coronation-a7130896.html

Great.. where's the 'stay in the EU' party that I can vote for? LDs?

 

[dumbo]

This frankly seems fanciful, I don't see the EU caving on one of their core tenets, while basically giving the UK all the access they want.
EDIT: I should probably clarify, I don't think you're being fanciful, but the note is.

The note is factually correct.

The EEA has article 112 which allows for an emergency break on immigration, and thus does have 'some restrictions' on immigration. However, that exists for Liechtenstien. The country had ~1/3 of it's residents foreign-born. Due to it's the tiny size, the country was struggling to physically accommodate additional residents.

Hence, there is 'some restrictions on free movement', but they are largely irrelevant.

 

[DiGiKerot]

I wouldn't say it's "anything but", really. The result of the referendum is clear and the government will basically stay the same, as is appropriate given the make up of the House of Commons is the same.

The general problem is that, whilst theoretically what people vote on in a general election is their local representative in the House of Commons, in practice most of the populations perception of politics comes down to what is nationally facing - that is, the senior party officials (cabinet/shadow cabinet) or whoever appears on any TV debates.

Whether the original purpose or not, the fact is that politics in this country are almost entirely campaigned on a party rather than individual basis. I think you'd honestly be hard pressed, outside of a thread like this where people are perhaps unusually politically engaged, to find someone who didn't vote for their MP based entirely on the party manifesto or their political leader. The fact is, that's who actually has the power to actually do anything, as any single MP is ineffectual in their own right.

So whilst it's entirely semantically right to say that, since the makeup of the commons in unchanged, it's entirely up to the reigning government to elect their new leader, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for anyone to feel hard done by for having their choice imposed upon them, because it's not how their run their election campaign in the first place.

Great.. where's the 'stay in the EU' party that I can vote for? LDs?

The cynic in me thinks that the submission of A50 will be accelerated in order to stop any other parties using its non-submission to gain political ground.

 

[theaface]

There is some delicious salt spewing out from Leadsom's campaign team:

"It is absolutely not the job of media commentators to ‘big up’ politicians, whether in this leadership contest or elsewhere in politics. But neither should it be their compulsion constantly to try to trip them up. Using spin and underhand tactics against decent people whose prime motivation is to serve has for too long undermined the confidence of the public in our politics. This need not be inevitable. It is this much needed fresh start to how we do our politics that was to be the centrepiece of Andrea’s campaign and which we must together progress whatever her role in the future."

Brexiteer hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness strikes again.

 

[D4Danger]

In other news Angela Eagle's leadership election logo looks like a daytime TV title card.

launched a coup right as the Tories pick a new PM

the media's like

 

[ultratruman]

https://twitter.com/livvybolton/status/752476074550976512

Oh my God.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Hmm, somehow I doubt Angela Eagle has any more broad appeal to make it to number 10...

This in a nutshell, why I feel corybn and his supporters are such assholes right now.

Why exactly? I found his logic rather weak. What is the basis for thinking that those other Corbyn, even if they might be elected, would effectively deal with de-industrialisation, outsourcing, etc., which have led to lessening of decent job opportunities for the working class?

 

[Hazzuh]

Corbyn came up with an alternative vision. Corbyn/McDonnell's economic policies were basically sensible. Don't mistake your refusal to listen to them with their not existing.

The voters don't like Corbyn's "alternative vision". He polls worse on the economy than Miliband ever did.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The note is factually correct.

The EEA has article 112 which allows for an emergency break on immigration, and thus does have 'some restrictions' on immigration. However, that exists for Liechtenstien. The country had ~1/3 of it's residents foreign-born. Due to it's the tiny size, the country was struggling to physically accommodate additional residents.

Hence, there is 'some restrictions on free movement', but they are largely irrelevant.

I'm not going to rehash past arguments, but suffice to say the UK simply wouldn't be able to claim the requisite impact of migration to justify using this article. It wouldn't fly. So it's really not worth contemplating it as the mechanism for the UK achieving the restrictions that the Leave campaign wanted, even symbolically.