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[icespide]

I know. I was joking.

man it's hard to tell these days

 

[Irishonion]

No, think of it as PS4 with "ultra" settings. You can't exactly double the framerate in CPU bound games, but think of it as a PS4 with "ultra" quality shadows, texture filtering, ambient occlusion, higher quality motion blur- etc. Essentially it can be a minor difference or a huge difference depending on the type of person you are and how much you care about details.

I hope so, I like my gaming tv now, but its not a 4k tv. Would just wait till ps5 if neo needed a 4k tv.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

After October? No wonder FFXV is launching on September 30

 

[icespide]

After October? No wonder FFXV is launching on September 30

late September games still require a Day 1 neo patch

 

[Irishonion]

Edit: beat.

But just tin foil hat, maybe thats the reason FFXV released late September? Lol

 

[Obliterator]

If Neo is truly this year we likely won't have to wait long before it leaks what the system looks like. They are going to have to start production in the next month or two.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

late September games still require a Day 1 neo patch

Ya just read that.

 

[Elixist]

im interested if i can upgrade for 200 and its quiet. i'd like to see a new controller with buttons on the back better battery etc. tho, hope thats in the package.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Phil Spencer did actually say that, but I really hope that don't uphold that policy, since it is absurd. If most people are using scorprio at 1080p, you could easily use that power to maximize the framerate and image quality, anything less is an unnecessary waste, unless there are some other fancy visual options available.

With regards to Neo, I'm very curios if Sony has upgraded the specs in the wake of Neo. I suspect it's lack of E3 appearance was precisely to see if MS would show its cards. If Neo is only 4.2 Teraflops, that sounds like a large tech gap, due to an incredibly odd release timing for Neo.

I would imagine Spencer is in kind of a bind right now, where he has to make you salivate for Scorpio but still want the XboneS. The only way to do that right now is to undersell the former for now and then maybe take back all those statements later.

"Scorpio was so much more powerful than even we initially thought that it doesn't make sense to still have that rule in place!"

 

[pixelation]

Strange in what way? Looks like they want to pull a Sega Saturn!!

You wanted to make me laugh?, consider yourself successful.

 

[Omnistalgic]

No, if one thing I can say about Sony, is that they keep very quiet. Microosft has actually been the one with bravado over the last few years. Every year before E3 we hear something along the lines of: "The greatest line up in Xbox History!" or "The best E3 we've had since....". Sony remains mute leaving us wondering what the hell is going on.

It's worked out pretty well for them I would say...

 

[rambis]

So Neo is useless without a 4k TV?

No.

Im fairly certain 1080p games will see the biggest gains from Neo and Scorpio.

 

[Maddanth]

So Paris games week or TGS reveal and release date imminent? Considering it's saying any games released after October 2016 should support both. Wonder if real?

 

[icespide]

No.

Im fairly certain 1080p games will see the biggest gains from Neo and Scorpio.

we really don't know that though

 

[rambis]

Phil Spencer did actually say that, but I really hope that don't uphold that policy, since it is absurd. If most people are using scorprio at 1080p, you could easily use that power to maximize the framerate and image quality, anything less is an unnecessary waste, unless there are some other fancy visual options available.

With regards to Neo, I'm very curios if Sony has upgraded the specs in the wake of Neo. I suspect it's lack of E3 appearance was precisely to see if MS would show its cards. If Neo is only 4.2 Teraflops, that sounds like a large tech gap, due to an incredibly odd release timing for Neo.

Andrew House said they are purposely not talking about it til its closer to release. No need to get in the public's attention span and fade this fast if they are a ways away from launch.

Also I don't really think its weird timing with PSVR launching around the same time.

we really don't know that though

We kinda do. Any game rendered in native 4k will be severly scaled back visually. Anything you gain in resolution you lose in actual detail. So your only option is basically wonky scaling methods and those almost always have negative effects on IQ.

Meanwhile at 1080p you have downscaling, improved AA/AF and more horsepower to beef up shading. Its practically a given at this point.

 

[rambis]

Dp.

 

[icespide]

We kinda do. Any game rendered in native 4k will be severly scaled back visually. Anything you gain in resolution you lose in actual detail. So your only option is basically wonky scaling methods and those almost always have negative effects on IQ.

Meanwhile at 1080p you have downscaling, improved AA/AF and more horsepower to beef up shading. Its practically a given at this point.

it's really not a given. they could totally be targeting this as just a thing for people with 4K TVs. we don't know if developers will invest in huge improvements for 1080p. they might, we just don't know

 

[Matt]

we really don't know that though

Don't worry about it.

 

[onQ123]

Maybe he meant native.

I said it would be uprendering/ smart techniques for normal PS4 games to be output at 4K but there will also be some native 4K games.


I have a feeling that Dreams will be native 4K & other games that use compute rendering will also be able to be rendered at higher resolutions.

 

[icespide]

Don't worry about it.

HI MATT!

I'm not really worried about it, just trying to keep assumptions in check

 

[rambis]

it's really not a given. they could totally be targeting this as just a thing for people with 4K TVs. we don't know if developers will invest in huge improvements for 1080p. they might, we just don't know

I mean I doubt many if any game will look as good in 4k as it does in 1080p. So given that the baseline is already probably a better quality it would stand to reason that an upgraded 1080p version would look better.

 

[Matt]

HI MATT!

I'm not really worried about it, just trying to keep assumptions in check

Hiya.

And ok, that's always a good idea...But there will absolutly be benefits for games on Neo unrelated to 4K.

 

[icespide]

I mean I doubt many if any game will look as good in 4k as it does in 1080p. So given that the baseline is already probably a better quality it would stand to reason that an upgraded 1080p version would look better.

hypothetically, if a game had a 4k-ish neo mode, but there were also improvements if running at 1080p that were not available at 4k-ish, why would you want to ever run the 4k-ish mode? wouldn't you rather just upscale the superior 1080p version? (better effects, shadows, etc.)

And ok, that's always a good idea...But there will absolutly be benefits for games on Neo unrelated to 4K.

niiice

 

[bitbydeath]

im interested if i can upgrade for 200 and its quiet. i'd like to see a new controller with buttons on the back better battery etc. tho, hope thats in the package.

 

[RoboPlato]

hypothetically, if a game had a 4k-ish neo mode, but there were also improvements if running at 1080p that were not available at 4k-ish, why would you want to ever run the 4k-ish mode? wouldn't you rather just upscale the superior 1080p version? (better effects, shadows, etc.)

I'm hoping we can choose that even if a 4k display is detected. I'd love to have all the bells and whistles with a clean nearest neighbor scale and HDR support.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

jumping/reloading/weapon switching while aiming, for one. it's like the main reason I can't go back to a controller after having become so used to mouse and keyboard. shit's a gamechanger

 

[eifer]

Go try an xbox one elite controller with 2 paddles on the back for a few hours and you'll understand.

 

[GhostTrick]

I said it would be uprendering/ smart techniques for normal PS4 games to be output at 4K but there will also be some native 4K games.


I have a feeling that Dreams will be native 4K & other games that use compute rendering will also be able to be rendered at higher resolutions.

Uprendering/smart techniques is still non native res.
Of course there will be native 4K games. Especially indies or simpler looking ones. Althought I dont see the relation with compute rendering and higher resolution. If Dreams is rendered at 4k, it's mainly because it's a simple looking game.

 

[OdysseusVA]

Hiya.

And ok, that's always a good idea...But there will absolutly be benefits for games on Neo unrelated to 4K.

Give me an example, Matt.

 

[onQ123]

Hiya.

And ok, that's always a good idea...But there will absolutly be benefits for games on Neo unrelated to 4K.

Yeah it's right there for everyone to see in the 1st few pages of the PDF . My question is how well would a Ray tracing engine run on top of a PS4 game using about 2TFLOPS of extra compute if the HWS/ACEs was configured for a hybrid ray tracing engine?

 

[wesleyshark]

Go try an xbox one elite controller with 2 paddles on the back for a few hours and you'll understand.

Paddles change everything. I can't use a regular controller anymore.

 

[rokkerkory]

Still want but that cpu is mehz

Also upgraded controller pls

 

[statham]

.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Paddles change everything. I can't use a regular controller anymore.

Yea but in something like Street Fighter? Devil May Cry? Or even simple games like The Last Guardian? I dunno guys, I just want a higher build quality DS4, not sure I want extra buttons or paddles. Seems like it's only good for shooters and camera control.

 

[wapplew]

But AFAIK sony is still not committed in delivering forward compatibility after Ps4/Neo life cycle.

Though, I would bet they will end up doing that because it would really hurt them not to when their competition is.

We don't know what a forward compatible half gen will effect the market yet, it could be the other way around.
I for one, hate the idea of forward compatible half gen enhanced console. Will buy Neo regardless of forward compatible, will not buy PS5 if it's cripple by Neo.

 

[Hidden One]

Paddles change everything. I can't use a regular controller anymore.

This. I cannot go back to a regular DS4 since I went and bought a SCUF. If Sony ever made an official PS4 "elite" style controller I'd definitely buy it.

 

[Inuhanyou]

This has most likely changed since Scorpio announcement

I wish the narrative that Sony are running for the hills because of Scorpio would die. Why would they even need to? Are they that much under threat from Scorpio that they would feel the need to change plans that are already set in stone at this point?

130%

Thank you, yeah math aint my forte lol

 

[Kyoufu]

But AFAIK sony is still not committed in delivering forward compatibility after Ps4/Neo life cycle.

Though, I would bet they will end up doing that because it would really hurt them not to when their competition is.

That's nonsense. Why would the lack of forwards compatibility hurt them when the inclusion of it would slow down adoption rates of PS5 considerably and hurt creativity from developers who'd be bound to last gen hardware?

 

[bitbydeath]

Go try an xbox one elite controller with 2 paddles on the back for a few hours and you'll understand.

Wouldn't it get in the way of your fingers? I'd hate to have to be weary of not accidentally touching back buttons all the time.

 

[vpance]

Hiya.

And ok, that's always a good idea...But there will absolutly be benefits for games on Neo unrelated to 4K.

Dat 8x AF!

 

[Fisty]

it's really not a given. they could totally be targeting this as just a thing for people with 4K TVs. we don't know if developers will invest in huge improvements for 1080p. they might, we just don't know

4.2 or whatever flops itll be a pretty 1080p and some 4K indies

5.whatever then we may see some AAA devs dip into 4K. I could see Ubi going for it

Personally id rather just take the 4.2 at a decent price this holiday and wait for PS5 in 2019-20

 

[truth411]

That's nonsense. Why would the lack of forwards compatibility hurt them when the inclusion of it would slow down adoption rates of PS5 considerably and hurt creativity from developers who'd be bound to last gen hardware?

Thank you.

 

[GhostTrick]

I wish the narrative that Sony are running for the hills because of Scorpio would die. Why would they even need to? Are they that much under threat from Scorpio that they would feel the need to change plans that are already set in stone at this point?



Thank you, yeah math aint my forte lol

Eh, can't blame you, math is my enemy too :")

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I wish the narrative that Sony are running for the hills because of Scorpio would die. Why would they even need to? Are they that much under threat from Scorpio that they would feel the need to change plans that are already set in stone at this point?

Probably not, but they have set themselves up to have the vastly inferior hardware for the foreseeable future. Not sure why they needed to hit holiday 2016. People say it isn't because of VR, but if not VR then why the rush?

 

[GhostTrick]

That's nonsense. Why would the lack of forwards compatibility hurt them when the inclusion of it would slow down adoption rates of PS5 considerably and hurt creativity from developers who'd be bound to last gen hardware?

No, that's the norm. Forward compatibility means you're library isn't tied to one hardware anymore. Hurt creativity because of last gen hardware ? No, you just cut the ties to PS4 when PS5 gets released. And cut the ties with PS4 Neo when PS5 Neo is released.

It would hurt their whole ecosystem simply because that'd be a terrible move for consumers. You don't make hardware upgrades if it's to make it half assed.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Probably not, but they have set themselves up to have the vastly inferior hardware for the foreseeable future. Not sure why they needed to hit holiday 2016. People say it isn't because of VR, but if not VR then what?

But your making the mistake of thinking they have to react because of the power argument, which is no the case when that has actually only been a bonus on how the PS4 has sold, and never affected how the PS3, PS2 or PS1 sold.

They usually came in cheaper, faster, and undercut the other guys to get to success. The only time they failed horribly ironically, was when Ken went overboard with his hype machine and started talking numbers and "the matrix is the same concept as PS3" talk.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

No, that's the norm. Forward compatibility means you're library isn't tied to one hardware anymore. Hurt creativity because of last gen hardware ? No, you just cut the ties to PS4 when PS5 gets released. And cut the ties with PS4 Neo when PS5 Neo is released.

It would hurt their whole ecosystem simply because that'd be a terrible move for consumers. You don't make hardware upgrades if it's to make it half assed.

But that is exactly what it seems they are doing. I would not want PS5 tied down by these PS4 Neo specs especially if we are talking 2019 or so.

 

[Inuhanyou]

No, that's the norm. Forward compatibility means you're library isn't tied to one hardware anymore. Hurt creativity because of last gen hardware ? No, you just cut the ties to PS4 when PS5 gets released. And cut the ties with PS4 Neo when PS5 Neo is released.

It would hurt their whole ecosystem simply because that'd be a terrible move for consumers. You don't make hardware upgrades if it's to make it half assed.

I think what he means is that developers should not be mandated to have to make sure every game on PS5 runs on PS4 even in the PS5 era(since NEO is a PS4, it would by definition mean PS4 would have to be supported to), as that would destroy the point of a PS5 bringing in new experiences and techniques that could not be done on the older hardware.

I understand what your getting at though, through carrying the PS4 and NEO library forward, but that can be acheived just as easily through a big priority of PS5 backwards compatibility with PS4 and NEO enhanced titles.

 

[orochi91]

Probably not, but they have set themselves up to have the vastly inferior hardware for the foreseeable future. Not sure why they needed to hit holiday 2016. People say it isn't because of VR, but if not VR then why the rush?

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Maybe the NEO will have this amazing feature that's yet to be unveiled and everything will make sense.

Either way, I wish they'd officially share some more info at this point, lol

 

[StrongBlackVine]

But your making the mistake of thinking they have to react because of the power argument, which is no the case when that has actually only been a bonus on how the PS4 has sold, and never affected how the PS3, PS2 or PS1 sold.

They usually came in cheaper, faster, and undercut the other guys to get to success. The only time they failed horribly ironically, was when Ken went overboard with his hype machine and started talking numbers and "the matrix is the same concept as PS3" talk.

They just dominated this current generation by coming in cheaper and more powerful. There is no perfect combination for success. Nintendo was cheaper, weaker and sold the worst.