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Digital Foundry vs Xbox One S
- Thread starter Caayn
- Start date
Given that there are zero compatibility issues with existing games, it should be pretty clear that there was no change to the architecture. The delta compression wasn't the only thing that changed with GCN3 (1.2).
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
As am I with my Sony 4K. It has come a long way with the Android OS. Apps are fast, snappy, and everything works through ARC for me.
In the past, node shrinks produced cost savings, but you do realize its been getting more and more expensive right? Node savings don't reproduce the same kind of cost to performance ratio that they did in the past.
In addition to that, they have already been making the current PS4 model's internals cheaper to produce under marginal number revisions, 16nm isn't going to make it that much cheaper. Its more about power savings moving to 16nm.
As i said before. a slim PS4 and NEO is not happening because Sony is focusing on NEO as the alternate PS4 and are not going to introduce another PS4 into the equation
Ah that's good to hear
yeah the Tizen OS for Samsung is really good now too. ARC was fine for a while for me, but ran into issues lately when I'd switch to the TV apps (selecting TV Audio on the receiver remote) then if I'm lucky I'll get sound. If I don't, somehow turning the TV off and on sorted out the problem haha, I'm wondering if it's the Denon receiver though. Anyway, now I'm just using optical and no issues. One button to the apps then one button to switch to "TV Audio" on the remote. Once I'm done, exiting the app will go back to SkyQ and set the sound back. Anyway, Xbox One S all setup! I'm now downloading and installing the games I had on the original console. As its 2TB (well 1.5..) I'm installing on the console itself instead of an external HDD like I had before. Should keep me going until Scorpio. Now I need to eBay the launch console...
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
that sounds like a good upgrade. btw, if it is like some of you guys say that ms/sony paid for the nm upgrade. that means the normal PS4 is gonna get one too right? will it be possible for it to hit the 2TF mark?
I have a JS8500. Just looked it up and it's a quad core, so half the cores of your tv's processor. Probably the difference right there.
I love the TV, but don't care for Tizen or the apps I've used on there. I feel that it's pretty slow to navigate myself. I had many issues with ARC so I also switched to optical, which works fine as I don't have a 4K AVR (however when I do, it will be a lot nicer to neaten it up and have direct HDMI to the AVR).
2015 Samsung JS8500.
PS4 GPU at 914Mhz would be 2.1TF
anothertech
Member
I would wager if the XboneS were 5-10 fps ABOVE ps4 level in 3rd party games, this would be game changer news all over gaf and the internet would explode, yes.
From the looks of it though, most games may be pretty much on par with the OG xbone. Unless we've seen how it helps with unlocked dynamic res games like Halo5?
TakeItSlowDude
Member
I wish they would have been less conservative (1GHz GPU and 2GHz CPU), but I am sure MS has their reasons. Unless I can unload my fat Xbone I will wait till Scorpio.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Still just wait for next year and Scorpio.
ethomaz
Banned
Well we will see...
16nm PS4's APU is coming
Manufacture process is still based in Wafers and good yield that come from it... smaller = cheaper.... you pay per wafer and not the chip... the chip will cost more if you can get only 50 big chip from this wafer or cost less if you can get 200 chip from this wafer.
Makes no sense any company staying with 100 chip per wafer in 28nm instead to migrate to 200 chip per wafer with 16nm.... less sense yet for a console that will sell millions of units yet.
No company is that dumb to throw money on fire.
rokkerkory
Member
Samurai G0SU
Member
This article has nothing to do with potential Sony hardware. Lol I can't even...
On topic. Super excited for the future updates regarding HD audio!
On topic. Super excited for the future updates regarding HD audio!
Yeah -- it's an expected slim remodel. It's not a response to the Neo.
ShadowFox08
Member
Does the S actually give a little bit of a graphical boost outside of framerate increases?
Kinda doubt it's anything you'd notice, if there is.
ShadowFox08
Member
Slightly off topic, but considering watts were just mentioned in the OP..
I'm curious to see how much power the NX will draw for the console aspect. The handheld version will be low for sure compared to consoles...
But looking at this interesting chart, its pretty cool to see Nintendo being more energy efficient than Sony and Microsoft(although they've been a generation behind in power since wii)
http://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_gameconsole.htm
I'm curious to see how much power the NX will draw for the console aspect. The handheld version will be low for sure compared to consoles...
But looking at this interesting chart, its pretty cool to see Nintendo being more energy efficient than Sony and Microsoft(although they've been a generation behind in power since wii)
http://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_gameconsole.htm
It can upscale to 4K and dynamic resolution games might stay at the higher resolution options more often, but apart from that it shouldn't do that on any existing games. New (or patched) games could potentially use the slightly increased GPU power but the things I already mentioned are already the most likely uses.
anothertech
Member
I don't think anyone expected a 'slim remodel' to have more power than og xbone. And if devs are able to push 5-10 more frames in games, that seems decent no?
But nah, I don't think anyone really believes it's a response to the Neo, lol.
It was more about the timeline/generation gap argument. Whether Scorpio should be considered a full gen leap or not. If XboneS was the .5 version, then that would be the response to Neo as the .5 console version.
It's blatantly obvious that isn't the case tho
I don't think anyone expected a 'slim remodel' to have more power than og xbone. And if devs are able to push 5-10 more frames in games, that seems decent no?
But nah, I don't think anyone really believes it's a response to the Neo, lol.
It was more about the timeline/generation gap argument. Whether Scorpio should be considered a full gen leap or not. If XboneS was the .5 version, then that would be the response to Neo as the .5 console version.
It's blatantly obvious that isn't the case tho
IIRC the Xbox 360 and PS3's die shrink versions and hardware updates could have slightly increased performance like this, but the differences were small and intentionally disabled in firmware to make sure it didn't cause any compatibility issues with existing games.
The Wii U uses less energy, but like you said it's also significantly less powerful than both the XB1 and PS4, so you can't really say that it's more energy efficient.
On the other hand we have the Xbox One S which has the same performance as the Xbox One while consuming less power - definitely more energy efficient. Maybe if the Wii U had 1/3 the perfomance of the PS4 while consuming 1/4 the power, but I don't think that's actually the case.
TakeItSlowDude
Member
Nvidia Shield TV is just under 20W while gaming, so I expect the NX to be around 20W.
On the subject of power consumption I noticed that none of the reviews/analysis looked at standby power draw, both the PS4 and Xbone were pretty terrible in standby mode, curious how much they improved this with the S.
Wii U isn't even half as energy efficient as PS4 or Xbone. Low power consumption != high efficiency. My GTX 1070 uses more power than the entire PS4 console, yet it's still considered efficient. NX will be the most efficient and use the least power (<10W) though.
One S should be the second most efficient.
NX won't be 20W because that requires a fan.
TakeItSlowDude
Member
I wish people would read the thread. I was responding to someone else who was musing on Xbox S being an answer to NEO. I was not saying that it was
I own a gaming pc and a ps4 and have had 0 interest in xbox this gen, but once the 299 sku is out Im all in on this. A 300 dollar 4k uhd player and I can play some halo now? Stoked. Can't wait. Selling one of my tvs this weekend and getting ready for some uhd hdr goodness. Good job msoft.
Well we will see...
16nm PS4's APU is coming
Manufacture process is still based in Wafers and good yield that come from it... smaller = cheaper.... you pay per wafer and not the chip... the chip will cost more if you can get only 50 big chip from this wafer or cost less if you can get 200 chip from this wafer.
Makes no sense any company staying with 100 chip per wafer in 28nm instead to migrate to 200 chip per wafer with 16nm.... less sense yet for a console that will sell millions of units yet.
No company is that dumb to throw money on fire.
Did skip over my explanation? Shrinking the current PS4 APU to 16nm is pointless because the cost ratio compared to what they already manufacture the PS4 for is not that high, which is one of the reasons why they went with NEO as an alternative refresh solution to a traditional slimline model.
And they don't want to confuse the marketplace by adding a slim model in addition to NEO and OG PS4 on the market. Because it doesn't make much business sense, hence why i didn't think it was a good idea during E3 when MS announced their own plans.
foolishoptimist
Member
I have a Sony 4k TV, and an LG sound system, and ARC works great, until it doesn't
I eventually just switched to Optical to avoid the irritation.
Tonight is our neighborhood night out, where our streets are closed off and we can meet our neighbors and let our children play safely on the street. Its an amazing opportunity to connect with real, living people in a way that has been lost to Americans. I suggest that's what people do tonight instead of playing with technology. Is a thing I was thinking till I remembered HDR and uncompressed 4k.
So here I am learning about Canadian trains in the Rockies.
Dat spiral tunnel...
So here I am learning about Canadian trains in the Rockies.
Dat spiral tunnel...
I think there will be a new model(not necessarily slimmer) with 16nm that will have the 4K bluray player as well for 299 to compete with the Xbox one s. maybe sell the OG ps4 model for 249 to clear out remaining stock. They may even have stopped shipping those by now if this is the case. Neo will be the slim model with more power to make it the more attractive buy.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Tonight is our neighborhood night out, where our streets are closed off and we can meet our neighbors and let our children play safely on the street. Its an amazing opportunity to connect with real, living people in a way that has been lost to Americans. I suggest that's what people do tonight instead of playing with technology. Is a thing I was thinking till I remembered HDR and uncompressed 4k.
So here I am learning about Canadian trains in the Rockies.
Dat spiral tunnel...
Cut your toe nails bro!!!!
jk I can't see them and im jelly.
Competing with XB1 S is unnecessary if they price OG PS4 right. I don't know when you expect this 16nm PS4, but i already expect an official 299-249 price drop of the OG PS4 when NEO is announced without any major SKU revisions of OG PS4. i think NEO may get a slimline model before OG PS4 ever does, but that's years away IMO
GHG
Member
I'm still waiting on Scorpio provided it's not going to be a 4K only console and games will see a boost the way that the S has at resolutions up to 1080p.
Oh and please release Scorpio in black please Microsoft. I can't be dealing with having a white slab in my entertainment system when everything else is black.
Oh and please release Scorpio in black please Microsoft. I can't be dealing with having a white slab in my entertainment system when everything else is black.
Mmmmmmm, I bet that tanker is filled with sweet glorious nectar of the Gods maple syrup.Tonight is our neighborhood night out, where our streets are closed off and we can meet our neighbors and let our children play safely on the street. Its an amazing opportunity to connect with real, living people in a way that has been lost to Americans. I suggest that's what people do tonight instead of playing with technology. Is a thing I was thinking till I remembered HDR and uncompressed 4k.
So here I am learning about Canadian trains in the Rockies.
Dat spiral tunnel...
Or poutine gravy.
MrBenchmark
Member
2014 Vizio P55 and Xbox One S anyone else video details look like this?
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AjufrbgHr7UmgaMUjiDJ_HmcXycwKg
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AjufrbgHr7UmgaMUjiDJ_HmcXycwKg
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Seems it's one of those "it would be stupid to upgrade if u already have one, but stupid not to upgrade to it if you don't" kind of upgrades.
NeOak
Member
But a 299 OG PS4 starts to look poor value against a 299 Xbox one S with UHD and 4K blah blah. Regardless of whether the games will still be less pretty - marketing will push the 4K and bluray angle.
Maybe if neon is $399 they can use that to their advantage? 'Hey I can get a PS4 for $299. Oh but that new Xbox is the same price and I get cool 4K stuffs. Wait - what's this Neo? Also 4K and the games will look even better than PS4? It's $100 more but that seems worth it'
Sure. I personally don't think media is all that much of a selling point of games consoles these days, the newness aspect of a console will be much more of a selling point for consumers than actually buying 4K blu rays and watching them.
OG PS4 and XB1S will still fight it out value wise in the end from a gaming standpoint and a price standpoint IMO.
draughn101
Member
Yep, and they don't have to compete with the NEO because it's not out, and Sony hasn't released any details. Sony is the one that will have to come out and prove why gamers should spend the premium over the S or additional $ after potentially dropping $300 on the S. Not to mention trying to sell them on the expensive VR headset at the same time.
For gamers only, maybe. When your step-dad calls you up and asks what the downside is for a $300 UHD BluRay player when companies are selling them for $400 with less features, then media is a bigger deal. Not sure how you market "newness." Not a lot of people are keen on being told they are wasting money, they want help rationalizing purchases.
In the age of phones, people buying up the shit that is newest and most shiny is even more important to sales
John Wick
Member
Sony don't have the money???
So how do you think Sony will reduce costs of PS4 further if not at least having one die shrink???
I don't even think Neo is coming this year. It doesn't make sense for Sony to release a PS4 upgrade when they are releasing PSVR this year. A slim with UHD player and 4k would be the better option.
John Wick
Member
Yup! That makes perfect sense. They'll release a slimline model of the Neo before they'll release a die shrink model of the PS4???? Lol