Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
NYR
Member
Ah, okay, fair enough.. I wasn't too sure, I must have read something and got confused.
What is 50 Hz, anyways?
Edit: here is where I read it, good 'ol GAF, lol: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=190949354&postcount=2
papersleeves
Member
Damn are OLED so fucking expensive...But Jesus Christ.....The picture quality, the deepness of the black right next to bright contents, the precision of the colors, it's all just unparalleled.
At first I was looking at the Samsung 65KS8000/KS9000, the Panasonic 65DX800/DX900, the Vizio P65-C1 and the Sony X850D/X930D. All of those sets were great, make no mistake. LCD has come a long, long way. Still, they pretty much all the exact same flaws varying to different degrees that made it next to impossible to choose. The Samsung has impressive colors and brightness but the local dimming and the viewing at an angle was disappointing, The KS9000 wasn't that much of an improvement compared to the KS8000. Picture wise, they both appeared identical. Still, the 9000 was also out of my budget so I had to cut it out of the list.
The Vizio had had fantastic local dimming. I love the FALD technology. It makes the LED technology so much better. The black level for the black bars while watching a movie is pretty great. Unfortunately, it also had bad viewing at an angle, which I guess is what you should expect from any VA panel.I also wasn't quite fond of the android tablet controller you have to use to control anything remotely intelligent on the TV. Plus I don't know if someone fiddled with the settings but the the colors just weren't as spectacular as the other 3.
I liked the Sony but the black level were the worst of the bunch. The 930D was much better than the 850D on this and it also had a brightness similar to the Samsung but the black uniformity on both models was bad. Again, the viewing angle sucked. I am a sucker for deep black so the X850D was out of the question and the 930D was out of my budget so I had to cut it too.
Lastly, the Panasonic were IMO the best one. The color were just as eye-popping as the Samsung but not over-saturated like the Sony. The local dimming worked great on both models. I'm not sure how to explain it, but Panasonic somehow managed to make their LED TVs look like Plasmas. They also had better viewing angles compared to the rest. Both models were pretty close but the DX900 had even better black. Their brightness wasn't as powerful as the Sony or Samsung though. The DX900 was unfortunately a bit too pricy for me so I had to cut it from the list too.
At that point, it really was between the Samsung KS8000 and the Panny DX800. I was going to pick the DX800 simply for the fact that I've owned a Panasonic G25 for 6 years, loved it and the DX800 somehow remembered me the picture quality of the plasma that I digged for so long. I guess I am a bit biased towards them.
But then I saw the b6p and my dream was shattered. I just lost it. I couldn't even think anything. I was just looking at the screen, my face deeply stagnant, my head simply frozen in time. My eyes were scotched on the screen, mesmerized by the amazing HDR demo I was looking at on such a beautiful screen. At some point I came back from brain dead land and I thought about how much I liked the Panny. It was the size I wanted for my living room, 65 inches. I was looking at the price, which was more than acceptable at 3 grands while the b6p was 3.5 grand for the 55 inches. I told myself how I would regret it if I chose the 55 over the 65. Not that 65 inches is always better, it's just that I was settled for a new TV at least of this size for my next upgrade, you know? Plus, it's not like the Panny was much worse. I mean, it has one heck of a good picture.
So in the end I chose the Panny. "That's the right decision", I kept telling me. Then I went to the floor guy and asked for the b6p.
Fuck my "bangal cat" tastes. TV is coming next Saturday.
At first I was looking at the Samsung 65KS8000/KS9000, the Panasonic 65DX800/DX900, the Vizio P65-C1 and the Sony X850D/X930D. All of those sets were great, make no mistake. LCD has come a long, long way. Still, they pretty much all the exact same flaws varying to different degrees that made it next to impossible to choose. The Samsung has impressive colors and brightness but the local dimming and the viewing at an angle was disappointing, The KS9000 wasn't that much of an improvement compared to the KS8000. Picture wise, they both appeared identical. Still, the 9000 was also out of my budget so I had to cut it out of the list.
The Vizio had had fantastic local dimming. I love the FALD technology. It makes the LED technology so much better. The black level for the black bars while watching a movie is pretty great. Unfortunately, it also had bad viewing at an angle, which I guess is what you should expect from any VA panel.I also wasn't quite fond of the android tablet controller you have to use to control anything remotely intelligent on the TV. Plus I don't know if someone fiddled with the settings but the the colors just weren't as spectacular as the other 3.
I liked the Sony but the black level were the worst of the bunch. The 930D was much better than the 850D on this and it also had a brightness similar to the Samsung but the black uniformity on both models was bad. Again, the viewing angle sucked. I am a sucker for deep black so the X850D was out of the question and the 930D was out of my budget so I had to cut it too.
Lastly, the Panasonic were IMO the best one. The color were just as eye-popping as the Samsung but not over-saturated like the Sony. The local dimming worked great on both models. I'm not sure how to explain it, but Panasonic somehow managed to make their LED TVs look like Plasmas. They also had better viewing angles compared to the rest. Both models were pretty close but the DX900 had even better black. Their brightness wasn't as powerful as the Sony or Samsung though. The DX900 was unfortunately a bit too pricy for me so I had to cut it from the list too.
At that point, it really was between the Samsung KS8000 and the Panny DX800. I was going to pick the DX800 simply for the fact that I've owned a Panasonic G25 for 6 years, loved it and the DX800 somehow remembered me the picture quality of the plasma that I digged for so long. I guess I am a bit biased towards them.
But then I saw the b6p and my dream was shattered. I just lost it. I couldn't even think anything. I was just looking at the screen, my face deeply stagnant, my head simply frozen in time. My eyes were scotched on the screen, mesmerized by the amazing HDR demo I was looking at on such a beautiful screen. At some point I came back from brain dead land and I thought about how much I liked the Panny. It was the size I wanted for my living room, 65 inches. I was looking at the price, which was more than acceptable at 3 grands while the b6p was 3.5 grand for the 55 inches. I told myself how I would regret it if I chose the 55 over the 65. Not that 65 inches is always better, it's just that I was settled for a new TV at least of this size for my next upgrade, you know? Plus, it's not like the Panny was much worse. I mean, it has one heck of a good picture.
So in the end I chose the Panny. "That's the right decision", I kept telling me. Then I went to the floor guy and asked for the b6p.
Fuck my "bangal cat" tastes. TV is coming next Saturday.
Caayn
Member
Why would 3D support mean that it can't do 50Hz?
50Hz is commonly used in the EU for broadcasts and games used to do use it before the millennium switch. That's the reason why EU models support 50Hz and the US models generally don't (as there's no 50Hz content on the US). It has nothing to do with 3D support.
Now with 4K I'm actually using 50Hz again as it's easier to run games at 4K with 50fps then it is to run them at 4K with 60fps. While maintaining the 60fps feel.
mmazurkiewicz
Member
65 E6 is now down to $3700 at cleveland.
anyone buy it lower than that?
anyone buy it lower than that?
So I have a Samsung KS8000 (US) and an Xbox One S. I just got Forza Horizon 3 and whenever I go to play it the TV shows a popup that an HDR video is playing but if I'm in game mode none of the TV settings actually change. Do I have to manually change settings to get HDR or does HDR not really work in game mode?
From Rtings.com:
For HDR gaming, once that game is enabled, increase the backlight to max, set the 'Color Space' to 'Native' and set 'Smart LED' to high.
TLZ
Banned
It just works automatically when detected by the source. Did you switch on HDMI UHD color under expert settings for the Xbone S?
Backfoggen
Banned
I think there was a firmware update for HDR + game mode for Samsung TVs too may have to install that.
And the 65 and 55 C6 are 3000 and 2100 shipped respectively.
So tempting, but I really want to wait until CES....
There's also some speculation on the AVS forums that prices will drop a bit more in November for Black Friday sales. I'm holding off until then and hopefully getting a 65 C6 for below 3k.
I got a KS8000 (or KS7000 here in Europe) and I was tinkering with the settings for PS4. How should the settings on hdmi black, rgb range and color space be on the tv and PS4? Should the color space on tv be native or automatic when PS4 is full range? Is the native range only for HDR content?
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
When does Samsung normally showcase their new lineup of TVs and when do they get released? For example will the 2017 lineup be revealed at CES 2017 in January and then get released in March?
I want know what will the 2017 models have better than the 2016 ones. I read that Samsung still won't re-introduce OLED but they are thinking about sth else. I aslo want to know if they are going to introduce HDR dynamic Metadata with HDMI 2.1.
I want know what will the 2017 models have better than the 2016 ones. I read that Samsung still won't re-introduce OLED but they are thinking about sth else. I aslo want to know if they are going to introduce HDR dynamic Metadata with HDMI 2.1.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
Not technically true. There are strobed LCD with better motion resolution than plasma (and much better than OLED).
The motion processing is disabled in game mode though so useless for games, also it doesn't remove the LCD trails/ghosting which remain evident particularly in darker scenes. Panasonics 902 is notoriously bad for this. Plasma is leagues ahead. And I'd still take OLED motion over LCD too due to its response time, the resulting image is so clean and clear even in 60fps games.
Watched an episode of Luke Cage at my friends house on his LG E6.
Blacks look so good on OLED! And I'm coming from an already great VT60. Tempted to pick up an E6 myself, but gonna try to stay strong and wait for CES. Keep telling myself that increased shadow detail, lower input lag, better motion resolution, and brighter HDR performance will be worth waiting for.
Blacks look so good on OLED! And I'm coming from an already great VT60. Tempted to pick up an E6 myself, but gonna try to stay strong and wait for CES. Keep telling myself that increased shadow detail, lower input lag, better motion resolution, and brighter HDR performance will be worth waiting for.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
Not true again. Sony's implementation is interpolation free and works in game mode. The motion resolution is demonstrably better than plasma and certainly in another league to the sample-and-hold of OLED (response time only plays a small part).
Jigolo
Member
http://www.oled-info.com/lg-slashes-2000-its-65-signature-g6-oled-tv
The G6 is the best TV right now. Although very similar to the other OLEDs I feel like LG hand picks the best panels out of the factory for these. Nice little sale
The G6 is the best TV right now. Although very similar to the other OLEDs I feel like LG hand picks the best panels out of the factory for these. Nice little sale
Man, if they took 25% off the 65" B6 it'd be an instant purchase. I really want to wait until CES though so it's for the best
panthapanda
Member
So the new HDR mode on my Samsung KU6300 has some serious input lag. Kinda sucks but I can't even see if there's a difference game wise since I only own a PS4 atm.
Its not bad at all
1080p @ 60Hz: 19.8 ms
1080p With Interpolation: 109.9 ms
1080p @ 60Hz Outside Game Mode: 122.4 ms
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4: 36.7 ms
4k @ 60Hz: 20.4 ms
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4: 36.7 ms
4k @ 60Hz + HDR: 20.4 ms
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR: 36.7 ms
Excellent for fast pace competitive gaming, it will definitely give you an advantage over other gamers. 'Game' mode has to be selected from the 'Special viewing modes' under the 'Picture' menu to get the lowest input lag.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300
panthapanda
Member
No I'm saying that the new firmware has a dedicated "HDR+" mode that, I'm guessing, is to simulate colors since it's an 8bit panel. Tried it with the PS4 and there's a noticeable delay in my inputs when compared to Game mode. Rtings isn't updated with the new firmware.
You should never, ever use HDR+.
I have an ST60 plasma, 42 inches, and I have decided that the next time I upgrade, it's going to be an oled.
Hopefully we'll start to see some decently priced models in 2017 or 2018.
I dont think I can go back to LCD.
George Claw M.D.
Member
So I've been using my 65" KS8000 for a couple weeks now, and I don't think I'm going to keep it past the 90-day return period. The more time I spend with it, the more disappointed I am with it. Instead of getting used to the light bleed and poor black levels, it's only getting more irksome every day. I think the only good thing compared to my 7yr-old Kuro is the input lag and power consumption. The Clear LED (strobing) option is great, but not selectable within Game mode. Not sure if it adds lag, but I don't see why it would if it's just strobing the backlight without running any algorithms.
And I said I didn't care for the "Smart TV" capability before, and at least with my particular TV, it's not winning me over. I'm experiencing several bugs and quirks that I've found is quite common after a little research. The settings and source icons for each input often goes blank, requiring a reset of the Smart Hub, which requires me to reinstall smart apps and re-log into them.
I get notifications along the top of the screen while playing/watching content. That's so annoying.
The Amazon video app has a bug that distorts letterboxed movies to fill the screen. It's been acknowledged by both Amazon and Samsung as a bug that's being worked on, but apparently it's been unfixed for months now according to comments on Amazon.
I have several devices that connect to the TV through an AVR. The TV detects each device connected through the AVR as a new device, so when I change sources on the AVR, the TV goes through a detection and setup routine that wipes out my custom icon/name setup for the AVR source input. So I don't even bother anymore and just let the TV do its thing.
It's probably a combination of me coming from the finest plasma ever made and really wanting an OLED/QLED/CLEDIS instead of an LCD. I still have a couple months before I have to return it, but at least I'll have given it a fair shot, and won't have to wonder if I would have been satisfied while spending a lot less money. Looking forward to 2017.
And I said I didn't care for the "Smart TV" capability before, and at least with my particular TV, it's not winning me over. I'm experiencing several bugs and quirks that I've found is quite common after a little research. The settings and source icons for each input often goes blank, requiring a reset of the Smart Hub, which requires me to reinstall smart apps and re-log into them.
I get notifications along the top of the screen while playing/watching content. That's so annoying.
The Amazon video app has a bug that distorts letterboxed movies to fill the screen. It's been acknowledged by both Amazon and Samsung as a bug that's being worked on, but apparently it's been unfixed for months now according to comments on Amazon.
I have several devices that connect to the TV through an AVR. The TV detects each device connected through the AVR as a new device, so when I change sources on the AVR, the TV goes through a detection and setup routine that wipes out my custom icon/name setup for the AVR source input. So I don't even bother anymore and just let the TV do its thing.
It's probably a combination of me coming from the finest plasma ever made and really wanting an OLED/QLED/CLEDIS instead of an LCD. I still have a couple months before I have to return it, but at least I'll have given it a fair shot, and won't have to wonder if I would have been satisfied while spending a lot less money. Looking forward to 2017.
NYR
Member
Sounds like you hate it, man. I would return it ASAP. Coming from a Kuro, nothing will live up to your expectations except an LG OLED.
NYR
Member
Always at CES and release is based on panel production, can be as early as March, but can lag based on various factors. For example, Canada didn't get the LG E6 until Late June:
http://www.wifihifi.ca/LatestNewsHeadlines/LGsLatestOLEDTVsNowShippinginCanada.html
panthapanda
Member
Why?
Causes judder in 24hz Blu Rays. Film grain looks grittier than it should among other compromises the technology makes in order to bring you a fake HDR image. I wouldn't bother with it personally.
Does anyone know about this LG UH5500 model?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-50-class-49-5-diag--led-2160p-smart-4k-ultra-hd-tv-black/5450648.p?loc=0&ref=8575135&acampID=8808dd04883b11e6a67d7a9545b5bfc10INT
My Google-Fu is failing me and I can't really find reviews for this in terms of gaming.
Not looking for anything high end but need a budget TV for some light gaming for my parents. Will this do or are there better alternatives in the same budget range of 500 dollars?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-50-class-49-5-diag--led-2160p-smart-4k-ultra-hd-tv-black/5450648.p?loc=0&ref=8575135&acampID=8808dd04883b11e6a67d7a9545b5bfc10INT
My Google-Fu is failing me and I can't really find reviews for this in terms of gaming.
Not looking for anything high end but need a budget TV for some light gaming for my parents. Will this do or are there better alternatives in the same budget range of 500 dollars?
That's not what you want for HDR gaming. You want to put it in 'game mode' then enable HDR color on that HDMI input.
George Claw M.D.
Member
Yeah. But I don't really have an alternative while waiting for CES announcements. The only other displays I have are a 27" SD Trinitron CRT and 22" Diamondtron PC CRT. So I'll keep the Sammy for the remaining 2 months in the return period at least, then will probably make do with the Sony until deciding what to do after CES. If 2017 OLEDs don't seem worth the wait and high early prices, then I'll probably just pick-up a 2016 model at clearance prices then.
Marty Chinn
Member
Masterbrew
Member
Come on...
holygeesus
Banned
I had a Kuro before my B6 and the LG is heaps better.
Easily, yeah.
The last plasmas from Panasonic (VT60, ZT60) 3 years ago were superior as well.
This is fascinating. My B6 does support 50hz...but it's also a European set. That might be the difference?
That said, my previous plasma was an American model and also supported 50hz so...who knows?
It is better in just about every way except one area; motion quality.
The way plasma TVs work versus the sample and hold design used on these particular OLED TVs means that they simply cannot match the plasma in that sense. Now, to be fair, the OLED TVs do not exhibit ghosting or trailing, rather, objects just blur at higher speeds. You lose more detail.
Using the de-blur filter actually does somewhat correct this bringing it up to plasma standards (or close) but it also introduces additional input latency. :\
I've found that, for normal games, the B6 is more responsive than the Kuro was. In HDR mode it feels about the same as the Kuro.
When enabling de-blur, though, it tends to feel slower than the Kuro, so I don't use it.
It's not an issue for most games, I've found, but for high-speed side scrollers you will notice it. At least it doesn't have the yellow trails like you get on plasma.
holygeesus
Banned
That is weird - I get literally no motion blur on my B6. The response time is 0.1 seconds on the B6 so you shouldn't be seeing anything like that you mention.
NYR
Member
Not at all. Kuro owners are just hard to please.
Fun weekend, went TV shopping and had some colorful conversation with the locals about TV's.
First store we went to was the one that had the G6P on display. We asked about the price and they managed to shave a whopping 5% off of the insane MSRP. Reminder - there's a heavy import tax on non locally built goods here.
Second store we went to had an older gentleman as the sales rep, who was quite fond of the sound of his voice. He gave us the old OLED 101 tutorial and made us watch some movie about the construction of OLED sets.
The Last store was a bit lax, the guy knew a little more about HDR and showed us the demo reel/tape. We were able to speak to the manager and they allowed us to view non 4k content on the set (which looked pretty good).
I asked all 3 stores about the E6P and none of them knew what the hell I was talking about. One of them flat out said you're better off just buying the G6P.
They gave us an estimate of about two weeks for delivery. We'll see if it holds up as promised. Was thinking about wall mounting it but our living room wall where we could mount the thing has a hollowed out panel where we'd mount it, with no studs/mounting points.
So for the first time after about 5 or so odd years, I say good bye to LCD/FALD Bravias and embrace my OLED overlords.
Unfortunately, WebOS is even more obscure out here than it is in the states. Think I might have some problem getting some proper 4k content out here.
Next on the list is a receiver, and possibly a 4k UHD player if I can find a proper region one out here. Would love to start building up UHD discs again but given how much I travel now it's going to be hard to build up a collection.
First store we went to was the one that had the G6P on display. We asked about the price and they managed to shave a whopping 5% off of the insane MSRP. Reminder - there's a heavy import tax on non locally built goods here.
Second store we went to had an older gentleman as the sales rep, who was quite fond of the sound of his voice. He gave us the old OLED 101 tutorial and made us watch some movie about the construction of OLED sets.
The Last store was a bit lax, the guy knew a little more about HDR and showed us the demo reel/tape. We were able to speak to the manager and they allowed us to view non 4k content on the set (which looked pretty good).
I asked all 3 stores about the E6P and none of them knew what the hell I was talking about. One of them flat out said you're better off just buying the G6P.
They gave us an estimate of about two weeks for delivery. We'll see if it holds up as promised. Was thinking about wall mounting it but our living room wall where we could mount the thing has a hollowed out panel where we'd mount it, with no studs/mounting points.
So for the first time after about 5 or so odd years, I say good bye to LCD/FALD Bravias and embrace my OLED overlords.
Unfortunately, WebOS is even more obscure out here than it is in the states. Think I might have some problem getting some proper 4k content out here.
Next on the list is a receiver, and possibly a 4k UHD player if I can find a proper region one out here. Would love to start building up UHD discs again but given how much I travel now it's going to be hard to build up a collection.
For anyone keeping score, one store flat out told me they've only sold 1 G6P in about two months. They literally showed me the receipts so I had little to doubt them on their word.
Their demo unit was the C6P. Was quite nice but couldn't get into the whole curved thing.
I suspect the vast majority of their OLED sales are last year's sets. Which you can arguably get a pretty good deal/steal on them by now.
Their demo unit was the C6P. Was quite nice but couldn't get into the whole curved thing.
I suspect the vast majority of their OLED sales are last year's sets. Which you can arguably get a pretty good deal/steal on them by now.
There's no point buying the G6 when the E6 exists.
I tend to agree - but either nobody knew about the thing or nobody carried it out here anywhere out here . I didn't buy this set in the US and it's hilariously difficult to track down "foreign" sets here in a country where there's a huge push to buy the local product instead.
Got tired of waiting around for 2 or so odd years to make the jump, so just finally did it.
Was tempted to go Z9D, But ultimately you guys made some fairly convincing arguments to just go with the LG.
Only a vague listing on a 3rd hand seller's website had the E6P, none of the "good" dealers out here had them. The local sets could be quite good, but honestly I wasn't too fond of my last "local" made smart TV crashing because of the ridiculous amounts of "apps" they pre-load on these things.
longdi
Banned
I saw Z9D side by side with E6.
Honestly in a bright room, the Z9D looks better as E6 cannot reach the same brightness level and even suffers from crushed blacks. Turning up the brightness,dynamic contrast,local dimming of E6 made the picture looks horrible.
Of course the Z9D still suffers from blooming even though Sony says they solved it with their backlight master tech.
Honestly in a bright room, the Z9D looks better as E6 cannot reach the same brightness level and even suffers from crushed blacks. Turning up the brightness,dynamic contrast,local dimming of E6 made the picture looks horrible.
Of course the Z9D still suffers from blooming even though Sony says they solved it with their backlight master tech.
Send a message to LG on their site that you want HDR in Game mode. They told me if they get enough requests they'll update the firmware.
Alternatively use ISF Expert picture modes with processing features disabled.
