LTTP: Super Mario Bros. as played by someone new to Nintendo
- Thread starter John Caboose
- Start date
woopWOOP
Member
Just Nintendo or anything NES? Because Capcom, Konami and Sunsoft also released some good stuff on that thing.
As for Nintendo's own games, the list in your OP is pretty good, but I'd add Kirby's Adventure too. Decent length, not too hard, not too easy, still fun.
Also if you're going through the original Metroid you better keep your finger near that savestate button too, lol. Grinding for health after dying isn't a great way to spend time.
And save SMB3 for last, it's definitely the largest and best of the bunch.
As for Nintendo's own games, the list in your OP is pretty good, but I'd add Kirby's Adventure too. Decent length, not too hard, not too easy, still fun.
Also if you're going through the original Metroid you better keep your finger near that savestate button too, lol. Grinding for health after dying isn't a great way to spend time.
And save SMB3 for last, it's definitely the largest and best of the bunch.
This is the equivalent of someone saying "You can skip every movie made before 2000. They haven't aged well."
SonicMegaDrive
Member
My favorite game of all time. I still play through it regularly whenever I have a few minutes to kill and I need a quick gaming fix.
JinjoUnchained
Member
This is excellent advice, OP. If your goal is to get the "classic Nintendo experience", then you need to get into the old school arcade mentality where games are a challenge to be mastered.
To be fair, many NES games are notorious for being unfair rather than a true challenge. But the SMB games are not like that. Plus, that's what you have GAF for, to help steer you to the classics that are fun to play and legit challenges.
So you need some games that are easy to pick up and play, but don't restrict you with cryptic bullshit. My recommendation for that would be the following three games: Mega Man 2, Contra, and Duck Tales.
Maybe start with Duck Tales, but first lookup how to hit blocks with the cane and do the pogostick jump. See how far you can get with that, theres maybe one kinda cryptic point where you have to revisit a level, so look that up if you need when you're at that point. Besides that, it's super fun and not too tough, but rewarding.
Next try out Mega Man 2, my favorite NES game. You can choose any level you want (a big deal at the time) and when you beat a level, you get a new weapon (and sometimes a platforming item). You'll die a lot, but there are unlimited continues and it's fun to experiment with different level orders and weapon usages.
Next, play Contra, hopefully with a second player for some old school co-op goodness. It's really tough, but super easy to pick up and play. Plus you can use the infamous Konami code for 30 lives.
I think those games will help you build your old school Nintendo skills and get you used to the experience. Then you can try other classics that are less forgiving like NES Zelda, Castlevania, Metroid, or Punch Out.
SoundPulse
Banned
I disagree. I consider it a fantastic game, and one that's still very much fun to play. It's not in the level variety (which is still pretty good, all things considered), but in how well Mario controls. Especially in comparison to earlier platformers.
Other games might have surpassed it in certain areas since, but it's still a great little package.
Pretty much. SMB1 was essentially the most that could be pulled out of the Famicom itself before Nintendo moved onto the wonderful world of the Famicom Disk System. The FDS would soon-ish lose relevance, of course, and Famicom games would use chips in the cartridge to pull a little bit more out.
Other games might have surpassed it in certain areas since, but it's still a great little package.
Pretty much. SMB1 was essentially the most that could be pulled out of the Famicom itself before Nintendo moved onto the wonderful world of the Famicom Disk System. The FDS would soon-ish lose relevance, of course, and Famicom games would use chips in the cartridge to pull a little bit more out.
BaloneyFraise
Member
I do. Respawing is lighting fast, you get unlimited lives and levels are short. It's the perfect modern evolution of an old school gaming practice I think, and I'm sure a lot of people actually prefer that by far.
John Caboose
Member
Thank you for all of your feedback, I have read everything but it's obviously impossible to respond to everything. Thanks for the gameplay tips, I did not have any real issues sprinting and jumping around with Mario. I spent maybe 20 minutes earlier today reading the manual and playing SMB2 and it felt very different from SMB. Having learned from you guys that it's somewhat of a reskin of a completely different game makes total sense. I'm not sure yet though if I should go strict release date order or go from series to series (and in release order within each series).
I'll definitely be taking your advice to not get bogged down too much in Zelda and Metroid, I will of course try them as planned but I doubt I will finish either. Your game suggestions are most welcome, I will go through them more carefully later and see what I should add to my list.
Some purists will swear by not using save states and while I will continually re-evaluate my use of them and how they are affecting the games I will not outright stop using them. Going for actual mastery like some suggest is how SMB has to be played would probably be fine if I was a kid and didn't have a bunch of other games available to me. Not to mention that gaming time is limited by the whole adult life thing.
This to me is all about having new gaming experiences, those experiences do not have to replicate exactly how it was to play these games when they released. I'm going on a journey and I'm glad to have you fellow GAFers here to guide me.
I'll definitely be taking your advice to not get bogged down too much in Zelda and Metroid, I will of course try them as planned but I doubt I will finish either. Your game suggestions are most welcome, I will go through them more carefully later and see what I should add to my list.
Some purists will swear by not using save states and while I will continually re-evaluate my use of them and how they are affecting the games I will not outright stop using them. Going for actual mastery like some suggest is how SMB has to be played would probably be fine if I was a kid and didn't have a bunch of other games available to me. Not to mention that gaming time is limited by the whole adult life thing.
This to me is all about having new gaming experiences, those experiences do not have to replicate exactly how it was to play these games when they released. I'm going on a journey and I'm glad to have you fellow GAFers here to guide me.
Not really, movies have been around much longer than games and had fully matured long before 2000. A lot of NES games are more analogous to early talkies (some of which are still enjoyable, but not where I would reccommend starting out for film) than something like The Godfather or even Casablanca.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but Metroid (and Kid Icarus) has a backwards difficulty curve. It's a pain at first when you have no health and bad weapons but becomes downright comfortable near the end when you have lots of health and the Wave Beam. You just have to spend some time grinding health at the beginning when needed (or save states might be fair). And obviously a map isn't an awful idea.
I don't blame people for using Save States on Zelda 1 and 2, I have no idea how people can deal with those games on their own. The enemies just never let up and act in crazy reflex-testing ways.
I don't blame people for using Save States on Zelda 1 and 2, I have no idea how people can deal with those games on their own. The enemies just never let up and act in crazy reflex-testing ways.
JinjoUnchained
Member
To be fair, when saying "master" a game, we're not talking about memorizing frame data or keeping spreadsheets on complicated mechanics. Most NES games are mechanically simple as there was only a couple buttons and a D-pad.
What we're saying is don't automatically fall back on save states to brute force these games. You'll be left underwhelmed if you treat them as content tourism. Don't spend too much of your limited time if it's not clicking for a particular game. But most of these games don't take much time to get proficient with because they're mechanically simple.
IOW, it's better to play 4 worlds of SMB without save states than it is to use save states to see the end. It's the journey, not the destination.
Edit: you have a lot of good suggestions in this thread. I'd again go back to my 3 recommendations along with the beginner's advice I posted for each: Duck Tales, Mega Man 2, and Contra. Easy to pick up and play and simple mechanically, but really fun and aesthetically pleasing. You may beat them, you may not, that's not really the point. The point is to have fun with them, push yourself, and move on to the next game as your time commitments allow. Happy gaming!
LegendofLex
Member
That's what's so great about them.
They're challenging enough that it's not as simple as just knowing a strategy; it's also about execution.
Sure, you can bulk up your stats by finding the hidden swords/shields/armor rings/heart containers, but that's just going to make the game easier - it's not going to make it a cakewalk.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
Zelda II is a game that was made about fifteen years too soon. The combat is complex, but I don't think it's rewarding. It's just a thing that I do mechanically perfectly enough to beat the game, but I never have fun with it. I spent most of my time being irritated at the combat and annoyed with the backtracking and finding random squares in the midst of a big-ass forest that I need to enter to get a plot football that I can carry forward to the next run of irritating combat.
If Nintendo just re-did Zelda II except in full 3D, basically make it like Dark Souls, it might be the best Zelda game ever though.
If Nintendo just re-did Zelda II except in full 3D, basically make it like Dark Souls, it might be the best Zelda game ever though.
Saying SMB is just alright but repetitive is missing the forest for the trees. It was a massive step forward that cemented so many design paradigms that are still employed to this day with wonderful creativity and ingenuity.
Jeremy Parish has the most in depth breakdown of SMB out there, which delves on the development, design, reception and legacy. Definately check it out.
https://youtu.be/vSssHzHam_o
Jeremy Parish has the most in depth breakdown of SMB out there, which delves on the development, design, reception and legacy. Definately check it out.
https://youtu.be/vSssHzHam_o
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
When we're talking about SMB2 US I want to mention that it's not just a reskin of Doki Doki Panic. Graphically, the Mario conversion is improved, the waterfalls in the original basically destroyed your eyes, there are now more animated objects etc. and while the original game had a save feature, you had to stay with one character throughout the entire game and beat the game with all four characters each to see the actual ending whereas in SMB2 US you can choose another character between each stage if you want and one playthrough is enough.
Also, and this is the most important addition...Doki Doki Panic did NOT have a run button!
Also, and this is the most important addition...Doki Doki Panic did NOT have a run button!
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Keep going. Yeah SMB has some reused levels. But cart memory back then was pretty low so it made sense. And skip Lost Levels because if you don't like palette swaps, you sure won't like remixed super difficult levels.
Start with SMB2. It's completely different. A totally new game with totally new gameplay mechanics. Then play 3 because it returns to the old formula but changes so much.
Start with SMB2. It's completely different. A totally new game with totally new gameplay mechanics. Then play 3 because it returns to the old formula but changes so much.
openrob
Member
This is such a good point. Trying to 'complete' the game the way you are seems really weird man.
Anyway, I would skip SMB2 for now. It isn't a true Mario game. I would play SMB3 first and THEN play 2. SMB3 holds up so well still.
JinjoUnchained
Member
To add on to that, Doki Doki Panic was originally designed as a Mario game, but was reskinned to be a Fuji TV tie in. For the Western SMB2, they merely reverted the characters back to the original Mario characters they used in development. It was made by the same "dream team" that made the original SMB and SMB 3, so it is definitely a Mario game.
The Varia Suit too. Ridley and Kraids' hideouts have enemies doing ridiculous damage.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Yeah. Most of the joy in playing games like these comes from the process of learning their, not from just admiring their visual and aural assets.
If your gaming time is limited but you are really interested in playing older games, you should use what time you have to get deeper, more rewarding experiences out of the games you play. There's no value in just savestating through as many games as possible to see their assets if you aren't actually just connecting with the games.
I'd recommend trying Castlevania, Shatterhand, Batman, and Gimmick. They are probably some of the most intricate and rewarding action games on the NES. I think the only first-party Nintendo games that are on that level are Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan) and 3.
Yes. You save stated the fun away. My goodness.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Not necessarily. The story was just that Nintendo was making a vertical platformer, then Miyamoto suggested that they make it more Mario-like by adding in horizontal elements, then the prototype had the Doki Doki Panic characters worked into it as it became a full game. The story Tanabe tells in that link says nothing about the game originally using Mario characters; that's just a myth people have started spreading around.
SMB3 and Zelda are Godfather and Casablanca, and Contra, Mega Man 2, and Castlevania 3 aren't too far behind in my opinion. All of them are perfection in their styles and genres.
RowdyReverb
Member
Play through Contra with the Konami code or a Game Genie code for infinite lives. Try to do it with minimal save states so it doesn't break up the flow too much. One of my favorite games
I saw Kirby's Adventure mentioned, which I will second. It's a great entry point for getting accustomed to NES games, even though it came out later in the generation. The difficulty is more forgiving, but it still provides a fun challenge. Also, it looks and sounds gorgeous, the epitome of 8-bit
I saw Kirby's Adventure mentioned, which I will second. It's a great entry point for getting accustomed to NES games, even though it came out later in the generation. The difficulty is more forgiving, but it still provides a fun challenge. Also, it looks and sounds gorgeous, the epitome of 8-bit
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
Nowadays it's definitly a proper Mario title though, with most of it's enemies having reappeared in various titles throughout the years. Even in Japan, SMB2 US had tons of re-releases. How many did Doki Doki Panic have?
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Please elaborate on your
terrible
To be fair, the reason Doki Doki Panic was never re-released is because Nintendo doesn't own the rights to those characters. Nintendo obviously owns the rights to Mario & Co., which is why SMBUSA is the one the gets re-released instead.
DragonGirl
Member
Outside of Super Mario 2 (US release) and 3, I'd recommend skipping the NES and going straight to the SNES. I grew up with the NES and I can't go back to most of those games. it's on the SNES that things really take off.
Aside from smb3, I don't think any of those nes games are good start points for diving into those franchises.
Start with their snes incarnations and go back if you want to see their roots. Playing a bunch of nes games back to back is probably just gonna result in you burning out before you reach the snes.
Start with their snes incarnations and go back if you want to see their roots. Playing a bunch of nes games back to back is probably just gonna result in you burning out before you reach the snes.
SoundPulse
Banned
That's actually one of the bigger reasons behind Super Mario USA. Stripping Fuji's characters allowed them to essentially reclaim the game as a full-fledged Mario title, of which it certainly ranks well among.
Sans eye-rending waterfalls, of course.
This is an awesome post. Content tourism is a great term and yeah, NES games aren't that. You're not playing it to see what the next part is like. The best feeling I get when I play a NES game today is the tense feeling where you're doing well and you're worried you'll screw up. Last time I got that was trying to beat Contra with 3 lives. You absolutely not getting that from save states and that's the greatest thing about playing NES. You're not getting that from a 30 lives code either.
Watching Jeremy Parish's Good Nintentions on YouTube made me realize how much of a technological leap Super Mario Bros. was compared to its contemporaries.
I mean you go from repetitive single screen score attack arcade games like Donkey Kong which only had 4 levels on NES to side scrolling SMB which has 32 stages and was the AAA exclusive of the day that changed the entire industry.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Doki Doki Panic was a game made for a festival. It wasn't meant to be a full release. It was made by Miyamoto and his team for a specific event. Since they owned the code they were able to just repurpose it when the time came to give the world outsite Japan a new SMB game. Had Doki not existed, who knows what we'd have gotten. Japan seemed set on not giving us SMB2j because of its difficulty. It's possible the US and everyone else may not have gotten anything at all until 1990 when SMB3 came out.
Also it did get a rerelease in Japan on cartridge. So it got one. Either way I wouldn't want to play Doki Doki when SMB2 USA exists. It's just that much better.
SoundPulse
Banned
The US probably would have just gotten SMB3 a year earlier if not for Doki Doki Panic getting re-purposed. It did release in 1988 in Japan, after all.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
The only problem is the name. Would it have been called Supe Mario Bros 3 still? People would have wondered where 2 went. They could pull a Final Fantasy and called it 2. Seeing as the next game was called Super Mario World. Still the US would have been so confused a few years later when we discovered that not only was there a different SMB2 in Japan but also the 2 we got was actually 3 and World was called 4 in Japan.
At least this way we got something. And it was unique enough to be its own thing.
Not to mention Nintendo Power. Without SMB2, what would they have featured on their first issue? We also wouldn't have gotten that awesome clay sculpture Mario.
I am out of words.
Edit: Well I guess I should say that I think the original Super Mario Bros is a true masterpiece, still one of the best plattformers ever, brilliant in both level design, challenge and controls. However, as with every action-game, it does kinda defeat the point when there is no longer any challenge. As when you use save states at the start of each level. Then you will basically be able to "grind" through the game.
Also, there is unlimited continues in the game. Hold A when you die, and you will start in the world you died in (but not the sub-level). There is also warp-zones to quickly take you back to whatever world you where in.
Remember, this game was released when single-screen gaming was all the rage. And it was the single biggest leap forward for gaming ever, almost single-handedly taking the video game industry out of the slump. Super Mario Bros is quite simply, the most influential game of all time, and still maybe the best.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
I had always heard that it was Nintendo America's decision, and not only because they considered it too hard, but that they also didn't think it was a good game.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Playing SMB was an amazing game when it launched because there was nothing like it. Not surprised it doesn't hold the interest of someone who is playing it for the first time. Keep playing though, the series gets much better
The SMB 2 we got in the US is probably my favorite Mario game of all time. Just because I spent more time playing it as a kid than any other Mario game.
Not really because of how reliant on technology games are. It's not really a fair analogy
Although I do Disagree with that same post. Something like miss PAC man is as "arcaic" as they come but still holds up incredibly well
Also, Mike Tyson's Punchout is still as fun as it was when it was released
The SMB 2 we got in the US is probably my favorite Mario game of all time. Just because I spent more time playing it as a kid than any other Mario game.
Not really because of how reliant on technology games are. It's not really a fair analogy
Although I do Disagree with that same post. Something like miss PAC man is as "arcaic" as they come but still holds up incredibly well
Also, Mike Tyson's Punchout is still as fun as it was when it was released
Here is a list of awesome Nes-games that are all well worth playing. Most of them are in my opinion way better than most games that gets released today:
Mega Man 1-6
Super Mario Bros 1-3
Zelda 1-2
Punch Out
Ninja Gaiden 1-2
Batman
Castlevania 1-3
Contra
Super C
Dragon Warrior 3-4
Destiny of an Emperor
Faxanadu
Little Samson
Gimmick
Ufouria
Gun Nac
Bucky o Hare
Star Tropics
Metal Storm
Shadow of the Ninja
Shatterhand
Adventure of Lolo-trilogy
Guardian Legend
Journey to Silius
Double Dragon 2
Kibys Adventure
Little Nemo
Kid Icarus
Metroid
TMNT1-3 (yes i really like the original)
Gradius
Life Force
Blaster Master
Crystallis
Ducktales
Chip & Dale
Darkwing Duck
Bionic Commando
Final Fantasy
River City Ransom
Shadowgate/Deja Vu/Uninvited
Metal Gear
Rush n Attack
Rygar
Vice Project Doom
Bubble Bobble
Gargoyles Quest 2
Jackal
+Probably much more I have forgotten. One of the best systems ever without a doubt.
Mega Man 1-6
Super Mario Bros 1-3
Zelda 1-2
Punch Out
Ninja Gaiden 1-2
Batman
Castlevania 1-3
Contra
Super C
Dragon Warrior 3-4
Destiny of an Emperor
Faxanadu
Little Samson
Gimmick
Ufouria
Gun Nac
Bucky o Hare
Star Tropics
Metal Storm
Shadow of the Ninja
Shatterhand
Adventure of Lolo-trilogy
Guardian Legend
Journey to Silius
Double Dragon 2
Kibys Adventure
Little Nemo
Kid Icarus
Metroid
TMNT1-3 (yes i really like the original)
Gradius
Life Force
Blaster Master
Crystallis
Ducktales
Chip & Dale
Darkwing Duck
Bionic Commando
Final Fantasy
River City Ransom
Shadowgate/Deja Vu/Uninvited
Metal Gear
Rush n Attack
Rygar
Vice Project Doom
Bubble Bobble
Gargoyles Quest 2
Jackal
+Probably much more I have forgotten. One of the best systems ever without a doubt.
You know, contrary to the previous poster in the thread, I think I remember actually checking the (US) manual and it's not actually in there. So it's more interesting to know how this info did get out there? Nintendo Power or something, probably.
You know, I agree with some points about save states, but I'm playing Zelda II recently and to be honest it kicks my butt so hard I still feel enough challenge fighting the unrelenting enemies and judging whether making a save state at this point in the dungeon is a good idea or not, strategically balancing 'game overs' to line up with leveling up. It's still satisfying and challenging, but not in an insane way that I'd literally just never have time to deal with.
Zelda 1 is a bit easier to cheese, but I don't really regret it either.
I've finished every Mega Man game, SMB1, SMB3, Metroid, and some other NES games without them, so I can appreciate there's some value in challenge, but I don't think it's worth shooting down 'save states' super hard. As long as the person understands they're missing a small component that made these games what they were and not going on a forum and going "wow, Zelda sure was short" or something
To Far Away Times
Member
Mr. Gimmick is a lesser known gem on the NES that you might want to check out.
I would say it's one of the most advanced games on the system. And the production values are sky high. It's got so many little touches and extra polish to it, it's really quite impressive. It feels they finished the game a few months ahead of schedule and just added all these neat little things to it.
I would say it's one of the most advanced games on the system. And the production values are sky high. It's got so many little touches and extra polish to it, it's really quite impressive. It feels they finished the game a few months ahead of schedule and just added all these neat little things to it.
What do you find so hard about Zelda 2? What enemies are you having trouble with? I don't put it up there with games like Ghosts N Goblins and Ninja Gaiden for difficulty. The only really hard parts I can remember are Death Mountain and the last palace.
I still see Mega Man 2, Mega Man 3, and Contra as top of the line when it comes to 2D run and shoot. The first Zelda is still the best Zelda for what I look for in a Zelda game. (Focus on exploration and secret finding) SMB3 is timeless platforming perfection. I don't agree.
I find Zelda II to be waaaaay harder than Ninja Gaiden, at least the original Ninja Gaiden. Almost all of the enemies in Ninja Gaiden can be dealt with by running straight up to them and slashing them once. Most of the bosses can be dealt with by just mashing attack. Birds can be dealt with by crouching until they fly right up to you and into your attack range.
With Ninja Gaiden, as long as you're aggressive to enemies and cautious around pits you're fine. On a good day, I usually don't get hurt until 2-3, and don't die until 5-2. It only really gets hard during the last few levels, and a big part of that is that glitch.
Meanwhile, in Zelda 2 I take a ton of damage even in the early levels. Iron Knuckles don't give you a lot of time to react, you're sometimes pelted by enemies and rocks in both directions, and you don't have a gigantic health bar.
This has always been my theory too, considering it was made by the "dream team" and was the next big game from then. No way they was going to waste that on some characters they didnt own - unless they got a crazy good deal for a limited time (which they did). But do we actually have prove of this, or is it still the theory of retro gaming enthusiasts like us?
NipplesAndToes23
Member
How in the hell you never owned a Nintendo system before?