OmegaTreeFish
Banned
Just turn it off and play. Turn the ingame brightness up if needed and you are good.
KS8000 settings for gaming at 4k/HDR
- Thread starter Haines
- Start date
Just turn it off and play. Turn the ingame brightness up if needed and you are good.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Yeah just confirmed it myself. Oh well, hopefully it gets updated soon.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
You just think it looks better because its brighter. Not everything is meant to be super bright all the time.
Edit:
And portrait mode........ No its fine..... Its fine....
Noboru Wataya
Banned
I prefer it because I see more detail with it on
Edit: Portrait mode because I had to use one hand. Deal with it
Not sure how that demonstrates that it's "helping" HDR.
Me personally, I've always steered clear of any image enhancing features on every set I've owned.
Noboru Wataya
Banned
Are you not able to see the detail disappear when the DC is turned off?
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
Lol i was just messing .I prefer it because I see more detail with it on
Edit: Portrait mode because I had to use one hand. Deal with it
Again... If you prefer it thats fine but the detail is there without it, its just not as bright in that scene. Do it with a game looking at something bright like the sky and sun.
Edit
Keep in mind recording a hdr picture with a non hdr camera wont show us what you are seeing exactly.
infinityBCRT
Member
In general it looks fine 99% of the time with HDR when lights are on in the room. There's just a couple of instances where the backlight goes out of whack on scenes with high contrast elements. In like a month of owning its was Noticable once during a dark scene in daredevil with subtitles on.
Rtings settings with backlight max in HDR. 10 in SDR. Keep everything on auto in the PS4 display settings. Get used to it and enjoy. I had the exact same thought that it wasn't bright enough, but it's really down to the content and expectations. After a day or two you'll adjust and enjoy it.
Gears of War 4 looks great at the end of Act 2 and start of Act 3. That to me right now is the video game showcase for HDR.
Noboru Wataya
Banned
Nobody messes with me when it comes to my camera handling skills.
Whats the best chapter in U4 to check out the sun?
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
Ask haines. I traded U4 ages ago.
I wish I had an S so I could try gears. Hoping to catch a deal so I can upgrade.
I have tried so much DC low medium and high that I will turn it off and try my best to give it a fair shot.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
The one area I seem to be at odds with the popular wisdom... I still select "native" for non-HDR. Auto for HDR but I manually select native for non-HDR every time. Don't see myself changing that any time soon.
Folks saying it oversaturates, but to me SDR is just washed out on auto.
So yeah, that's technically wrong, but to me it feels right. But I'm not going to argue with the experts or even argue my case. It is what it is.
Folks saying it oversaturates, but to me SDR is just washed out on auto.
So yeah, that's technically wrong, but to me it feels right. But I'm not going to argue with the experts or even argue my case. It is what it is.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
This thread has 1,000+ posts. That's ridiculous. Most of them are just people thinking out loud and questioning their choices because someone else prefers different settings. Virtually all of this stuff is personal preference.
Haines especially: Do yourself a favor and stop reading this thread after you find settings that look good to you. You're just torturing yourself. I have diagnosed OCD, so I know that feeling all too well.
Haines especially: Do yourself a favor and stop reading this thread after you find settings that look good to you. You're just torturing yourself. I have diagnosed OCD, so I know that feeling all too well.
infinityBCRT
Member
Huh. Didn't notice that differentiation. Just kept it on Native. I'm not gonna switch back and forth on my game console (because it doesn't save settings for HDR and non-HDR separately) but I will fix it on my non gaming inputs. SDR content is always going to look like it has a grey filter on it after seeing stuff in HDR.
I contend that its not, and that there's a right way that this content is supposed to look (epecially for non-video games). There are standards in place for the way SDR and HDR content is supposed to look and content creators create their content on displays calibrated to these standards.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
Thats not entirely true. People like myself are trying to say how to view it as intended but by all means change it to suit ones preference.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
I absolutely understand that, I'm just saying that it's personal preference whether you care or not how accurate your display is. If someone wants to set their sharpness to high or oversaturate colors, then they can certainly do that.
It took me about a day to get used to it. It helps if you're in a dimly lit room.
Noboru Wataya
Banned
I see what you mean about looking at the sun regarding the outline and slightly blown out whites. After back and forthing over and over, the loss is minimal compared to the gain with the rest of the screen, especially the blacks.
I guess I am just bummed I never got an OLED screen, but I think I will stick with the DC on.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
And if you like it that way thats totally cool. The only reason i said anything was people sayin you NEED dc for HDR when technically the opposite is more true.
Me and the wife haven just spent half an hour and settled on trying to get used to off.
I believe this tv has some shitty dimming going on and we were trying to correct it using DC losing a ton of range in the process.
When set on high the blacks were crushed and the whites were super bright and colors popping leading me to think I was making up for losing detail.
I think that the hdr technology looks great on this tv but it simply needs something like oled to truly shine.
Last post from me.
Happy gaming.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Maybe that's what's going on. I'm sitting here thinking, "I used to be interested in getting a 4K/HDR TV, but after reading this thread, I don't think I'm prepared. I may have to go back to school and get a master's degree in TV Calibration first."
I can't really believe that the process is that complex and daunting, but this thread sure makes it seem so.
infinityBCRT
Member
It is, it's crazy, and it shouldn't be. All the TV manufacturers would have to do is just display the picture as intended and all of this confusion would go away.
At the same time, this is why rtings is an amazing source. You can get pretty much the best picture possible by following recommendations.
Okay, I see a lot of confusion on here... Let me see if I can help some of yall, with some settings that those of us on AVS Forums have sort of decided seem to be good all around general default settings for HDR Gaming. I'll explain the reasoning behind some of the settings, as to make this as clear as possible....
FIRST - If you have messed with your White Balance or Color Sliders and you didn't have a professional actually do it, reset to default. You can not use other's settings for this, and any changes you've done are probably for the worst. You can only get correct values for these via software and a professional that knows what they are doing so they can measure your ambient light and whats coming off of the TV.
Now, On to the settings ( I have the KS9500, basically the newer model of the KS8000, same settings transfer over ) And this is for Game Mode, Not Movie Mode, So yes, there is a number to Sharpness for a reason that is still beyond my total comprehension. But 0 Sharpness blurs the textures out, and too much causes tracer lines and other distortion effects. There is a happy medium, so look for it between what I listed.
Game Mode: SDR / *HDR settings listed ( You have to manually change the HDR settings until Sammy gives us another save slot under the Game Mode Picture Setting )
Backlight 13 *HDR 20
Brightness 45
Contrast 95 *HDR 100
Sharpness 17 ( anywhere from 10 to 20 is good, but don't go over 20 or you will start to get artifacts and other image distortion )
Color 50
Tint 50/50
Smart LED High
HDMI Black Level Normal ( Put your PS4 RBG Range to Full so you won't crush blacks ) (Auto will not work, and causes signals to get mixed up and blacks to get crushed, must manually set to what I've posted to get accurate blacks.)
Dynamic Contrast Off *HDR Medium
Color Tone Warm 2 ( you can set this to another option if you prefer. You won't be getting more accurate colors though, but this is a preference type of thing as well )
Again, Don't touch White Balance
Gamma 0
Color Space Auto ( Used to have to be Native for HDR to work, but Sammy patched it for Auto to work, so it's best to do Auto for now )
Also, make sure you have your PS4 set to YUV420 so that you can get proper HDR 10bit.
FIRST - If you have messed with your White Balance or Color Sliders and you didn't have a professional actually do it, reset to default. You can not use other's settings for this, and any changes you've done are probably for the worst. You can only get correct values for these via software and a professional that knows what they are doing so they can measure your ambient light and whats coming off of the TV.
Now, On to the settings ( I have the KS9500, basically the newer model of the KS8000, same settings transfer over ) And this is for Game Mode, Not Movie Mode, So yes, there is a number to Sharpness for a reason that is still beyond my total comprehension. But 0 Sharpness blurs the textures out, and too much causes tracer lines and other distortion effects. There is a happy medium, so look for it between what I listed.
Game Mode: SDR / *HDR settings listed ( You have to manually change the HDR settings until Sammy gives us another save slot under the Game Mode Picture Setting )
Backlight 13 *HDR 20
Brightness 45
Contrast 95 *HDR 100
Sharpness 17 ( anywhere from 10 to 20 is good, but don't go over 20 or you will start to get artifacts and other image distortion )
Color 50
Tint 50/50
Smart LED High
HDMI Black Level Normal ( Put your PS4 RBG Range to Full so you won't crush blacks ) (Auto will not work, and causes signals to get mixed up and blacks to get crushed, must manually set to what I've posted to get accurate blacks.)
Dynamic Contrast Off *HDR Medium
Color Tone Warm 2 ( you can set this to another option if you prefer. You won't be getting more accurate colors though, but this is a preference type of thing as well )
Again, Don't touch White Balance
Gamma 0
Color Space Auto ( Used to have to be Native for HDR to work, but Sammy patched it for Auto to work, so it's best to do Auto for now )
Also, make sure you have your PS4 set to YUV420 so that you can get proper HDR 10bit.
DreadfulOmen
Member
I just set up my ks8000, and watching demos that i downloaded. Holy crap the hdr demos are amazing.
Urgh. Cant stop myself.
Can you explain sharpness at 17 shakey?
Me and the wifey just settled on warm 1 for games. The rtings says 2 is closest to cinema standard and we find its simply too much yellow,
We tested tf2 uc4 and tlou and warm 1 looked so much more natural,
I have yet to check video and assume it is probably better at the w2 until i try,
Can you explain sharpness at 17 shakey?
Me and the wifey just settled on warm 1 for games. The rtings says 2 is closest to cinema standard and we find its simply too much yellow,
We tested tf2 uc4 and tlou and warm 1 looked so much more natural,
I have yet to check video and assume it is probably better at the w2 until i try,
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
You get used to warm 2 after a while and once you do eveything else looks to blue.
You need to stop changing settings or you wont get used to anything lol
I also dont see why you would need any sharpening apart from maybe a tiny amount on a 4k image especially as it should be perfectly sharp without it.
Good advice and good settings, notice that dynamic contrast is only on in HDR mode.
I suspect that the Samsung does not apply a hybrid log gamma when HDR is enabled unless dynamic contrast has been turned on.
Remember that an HDR picture should not immediately appear brighter in an average scene, it has the same nominal brightness as SDR for the vast majority of its content. If you see a huge shift in the brightness when HDR is enabled, and you see the blacks are blown out, then you know it's not working properly. that's why I keep coming back to the standard gamma curve: it doesn't work for HDR: it makes the darker parts of the image way to bright.
100% of the standard log gamma is only 50% of the hybrid log gamma, so if the HDR luminance is getting mapped to a standard log gamma, the blacks get blown out.
If something is mastered in Rec709, then it should look identical color wise in Rec2020 in terms of sub 100 nit images unless it has been re-mastered to take advantage of the wide color gamut, which most of these games have not!
Watch LG Chess it's out of this world.
Warm2 looks fine on cinema.
All i ever used was warm2 but just checking now in games there is no way i will budge off of warm1. It doesnt look cold or blue but also doesnt look yellow. Again im talking specifically fir games on this tv
Im done changing settings. Im leaving dynamic contrast on off. Low or medium makes blacks grey. High loses all detailin exchange,
Ive come to terms this set just isnt going to do hdr like a oled and i will get a dim image.
Life goes on.
If anyone could tell me where to find these test videos to put on my tv, i would be eternal thankful.
Would love to check them out.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
http://demo-uhd3d.com/categorie.php?tag=hdr
Put them on a usb stick to get them to work.
Experience eyes melt with wonder
Do the chess one
http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=145
This site has a bunch of great ones. Copy to USB stick and watch on the appropriate HDMI port.
Haines if you really want to know for yourself, a colorimeter can be purchased for $100 - 150 and the DYI software is free (donations welcome). Then you won't have to ask, you'll know you have it set up with an accurate image.
I normally dislike DC as well... But this is another one of those preference over performance things. Games are 8bit color right now, so no matter what, we aren't getting the full effect of a true HDR image.
If these were movies, I would say DC off as well, even for HDR content, because movies are now in 10bit color when they have HDR. But games are lacking in that department, and I just feel that DC on Medium adds that extra umph needed. If you actually test Medium vs Off, there isn't much of a difference. It's very odd, but Medium is very faint compared to Off, where as Low and High are horrible ( which I don't recommend ).
Gaming HDR is too new. And with them having mix specs for color and other elements, it's hard to get the settings just right. But I think this is a good medium for most people to start from. It will at least ensure they aren't crushing blacks or over saturating colors, at least for SDR. HDR is another beast and I go back and forth with DC constantly.
Dusktildawn48
Member
Im so confused on what to do to enable hdr, and my res says rgb unsupported.
Sharpness is normally something you put to 0 for TV/Movies. But games are rendered a tad differently. If you have sharpness at 0 on a game, you are actually causing a small blur in the small details of textures. You will see this if you go from 0 and slowly slide it up while looking at something like a wall, or rock. You will start to see some parts of the texture you couldn't. But if you go too high, basically at 20 or above, you will start to get the dark tracing lines or other elements being added to the image that only distort the overall PQ. 17 is just where , on my set, I think that it falls in line.
Warm 2 is really the best to use. It's more natural and what all studios/devs really use to go off of for color. And I agree, Warm 1 and Natural do look pretty, but it isn't true. Don't fall for the lies and the pretty bling bling!!!
Enable HDMI UHD Color on your TV Picture Settings.
On PS4 - Settings - Sound and Screen - Resolution - 2160YUV420
If done correctly, in games that have HDR, you will get a message stating that HDR is enabled. Then you must manually set 2 to 3 settings to get HDR to be properly enabled.
DreadfulOmen
Member
have you tried any of these demos? http://demo-uhd3d.com/categorie.php?tag=hdr
i play them on a usb, with DC off and they look pretty amazing. Remember there is a difference between the UHD and HDR demos. UHD demos are just 4k and they look awesome, but the HDR demos....WOWSERS.
Agree with others saying don't fiddle settings until your go crazy.
As long as you can pull up this picture
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
And you can see all the squares, and while playing games look good to you, you're fine. There won't be a standard perfect, there's definitely a preference component
As long as you can pull up this picture
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
And you can see all the squares, and while playing games look good to you, you're fine. There won't be a standard perfect, there's definitely a preference component
DreadfulOmen
Member
Yes this is correct. Brightness should have the same nominal brightness compared to SDR. I think this is what is confusing people. People are thinking that HDR should make everything brighter, but this is not how it should be.
i downloaded a bunch of files ahead of time, and the chess demo was one of the demos that blew me away.
DreadfulOmen
Member
They cant because everyone's environment is different when it comes to lighting. Movie theaters are usually in a dim environment, but some people dont watch movies at home in the dark.
I set up 2 different settings, one for watching in the dark, and one for watching with ambient light.
With my settings, I don't believe I'm crushing anything.
https://imgur.com/gallery/hhBPW?_branch_match_id=327900801592592846
I know phone pictures don't do any justice, but can show a bit of what the settings bring.
https://imgur.com/gallery/hhBPW?_branch_match_id=327900801592592846
I know phone pictures don't do any justice, but can show a bit of what the settings bring.
Why do you say games are 8-bit color? PS4 Pro is outputting with with BT.2020 color space at 10 and sometimes 12- bit depths.
I understand that they colors have not been remastered to a wide color gamut, but rec709 is easily mapped into BT.2020, and they are doing at at higher bit depths.
Games , at least so far, have been made with 8bit color scale. We have a few being updated to 10, but not many yet. And since we don't have precise details as to what "pro supported" means, it's hard to tell if they are actually applying 10bit scales or not, or just doing other tricks for an HDR image.
This reddit post sums it up better I think : https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/3vxlyw/8bit_vs_10bit_in_games/
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
What other settings need changing?
digitalrelic
Banned
So there's really never any reason to go with 2160 RGB on the PS4 Pro then? I've been hearing mixed feedback on this.