Support NeoGAF

[Xtib81]

GI at 60 fps but but but Pro is a shitty hardware

Denial is real. Almost every new game either doesn't support the pro or has serious issues with pssr.

 

[Senua]

Yeah, do a Cyberpunk and stick coloured lights everywhere and it makes for a very flashy and convincing gay disco effect.

 

[GymWolf]

Depends on the review's objective. Imagine game reviews talking about Zelda and Elden Ring every time they review an open world game or Sekiro every time they review an action game. That's not the purpose of a review. Do you review food at one restaurant by talking about another restaurant? Or sex with your partner based on your experience with exes? That's the most immature, lazy, low IQ type of review.

Comparative analysis between different games of the same generation is meant for awards and bragging rights. Not reviews. Not to say any of these reviewers actually understand this nuance, but most people do understand that it's just not appropriate.

Agree to disagree, everything they do can be used as console war ammo (and it has been unless you lived in a cave), from framerate to resolution to everything, so adding a comparison is no biggie, i would want to know how a supposedly nextgen game stacks against other nextgen games.

 

[Imtjnotu]

keep feeding us your shit youtube screen shots people

 

[GymWolf]

They don't wanna get involved into console wars, that's the excuse they've used in the past anyway. I think comparisons are interesting, who cares what zealots do with the outcome?

Sound like a retarded excuse when everything they say is already used as console war ammo.

Reducing the quality of your review because you fear fanboys is just stupid.

Also, how the fuck can be used as console war ammo when you do a comparison between let's see, yotei, wukong and shadows? one is a sony game, the others are third party, nobody is asking them to compare yotei to a mcirosoft game if they don't want to do it.

 

[SlimySnake]

Is that even possible for an RTGI technique to distinguish between MC and NPC? What would happen when they interact/fight? This could very well be an issue of lower quality NPC models with sub surface scattering turned off and not related to RTGI. I can certainly see it in effect on NPCs in cutscenes. Will need to see some on/off footage for NPCs during gameplay as well.

You can choose which objects to trace rays against in the bvh structure. think of it like how insomniac excluded far away objects and various cars and trees in the miles reflections then in spiderman 2 added them back in for richer reflections thanks to optimizations to their RT performance allowing them to add more and more things to trace against.

You are seeing better lighting in cutscenes because devs are able to hand place hero lights everywhere without worrying too much about framerates dropping since they know exactly how the scene will play out. thats why realtime cutscenes in TLOU2, and DS2 look so much better than gameplay.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sound like a retarded excuse when everything they say is already used as console war ammo.

Reducing the quality of your review because you fear fanboys is just stupid.

Also, how the fuck can be used as console war ammo when you do a comparison between let's see, yotei, wukong and shadows? one is a sony game, the others are third party, nobody is asking them to compare yotei to a mcirosoft game if they don't want to do it.

They used to console war compare all the time when Xbox was on top and/or more powerful hardware in practice.

They were balls deep in the disinformation discord "leaks" campaign against Sony prior to the PS5/XBS launch.

I wonder what changed? I wonder what changed.

 

[dgrdsv]

A PS4 game with limited RTGI on top still looks like a PS4 game now with limited RTGI on top.
Most of shots shown in the video are awfully flat lit, have low quality geo and generally look previous gen.
It is good though that they've at least added some RT.

 

[SlimySnake]

Sound like a retarded excuse when everything they say is already used as console war ammo.

Reducing the quality of your review because you fear fanboys is just stupid.

Also, how the fuck can be used as console war ammo when you do a comparison between let's see, yotei, wukong and shadows? one is a sony game, the others are third party, nobody is asking them to compare yotei to a mcirosoft game if they don't want to do it.

they dont do comparisons because they are idiots. their videos have become very one note. Alex just exists to either fawn over path tracing in the 1-2 path traced games every year, or spend the rest of the year bitching about stutters. Instead of actually taking the time to appreciate the tech in games thats not path tracing.

Tom Morgan literally spends the entire time pixel counting between different console versions. Oliver spends only 80% of the time pixel counting for console warriors. Which leaves John who spends most of the time jerking off over shit that was done last gen.

Technical analysis from these guys boils down to pixel counts and framerate counting, and nothing more. You would think they would take a look at why RTGI in Indiana Jones, Doom and now Ghosts, doesnt look as good as RTGI in Avatar and AC Shadows. You would think they would directly compare nanite objects vs games that arent using virtualized geometry or better yet games that are using them so we can finally see who does the tech better, and who has the more performant version of the tech.

A lot of the retarded UE5 and RTGI takes on gaf and twitter are due to people just not understanding how expensive they are, and thats on DF for their lazy analysis. Ive posted several times about how few games across many different engines actually run at 1080p 60 fps with RT on consoles. Let alone RTGI. Nearly every game thats pushing next gen visuals with or without RT drops to 720p when stressed and yet people think only UE5 games do that.

 

[viveks86]

Agree to disagree, everything they do can be used as console war ammo (and it has been unless you lived in a cave), from framerate to resolution to everything, so adding a comparison is no biggie, i would want to know how a supposedly nextgen game stacks against other nextgen games.

Instead of console wars, what you are asking for will end up in game wars, so we can all cheer whatever our favorite game is. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't have an issue if DF makes a separate video regularly for tracking different techniques and the best implementations of said techniques. It's just not appropriate to expect that in a game review. These aren't pure technology products to compare them like laptops or headphones. Even for a site like DF, there are artistic/creative elements that automatically invoke enough bias that the same game would review differently between Alex and John. But yeah, we can agree to disagree.

 

[saintjules]

This is something that plagues all games. I hope one day it's eradicated and that every step feels genuine without clipping into objects.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is something that plagues all games. I hope one day it's eradicated and that every step feels genuine without clipping into objects.

Something Death Stranding excels in compared to most games. Then again, you do walk a lot in the beginning.

 

[Insane Metal]

I already thought GoT looked just ok and this is more of the same.

 

[Radical_3d]

A PS4 game with limited RTGI on top still looks like a PS4 game now with limited RTGI on top.
Most of shots shown in the video are awfully flat lit, have low quality geo and generally look previous gen.
It is good though that they've at least added some RT.

So… some of you decided to still die in that hill, uh?

 

[viveks86]

You can choose which objects to trace rays against in the bvh structure. think of it like how insomniac excluded far away objects and various cars and trees in the miles reflections then in spiderman 2 added them back in for richer reflections thanks to optimizations to their RT performance allowing them to add more and more things to trace against.

You are seeing better lighting in cutscenes because devs are able to hand place hero lights everywhere without worrying too much about framerates dropping since they know exactly how the scene will play out. thats why realtime cutscenes in TLOU2, and DS2 look so much better than gameplay.

We can agree on that. What are your thoughts on the comparison I made though? If the NPCs are being lit different between RT and non-RT in the cutscene, are they switching BVHs between cutscene and gameplay? In either case, that would have nothing to do with hand placed hero lights.

They might be doing a switch. I don't know. But the comparison shows that RTGI is affecting NPCs in cutscenes at least.

 

[SlimySnake]

We can agree on that. What are your thoughts on the comparison I made though? If the NPCs are being lit different between RT and non-RT in the cutscene, are they switching BVHs between cutscene and gameplay? In either case, that would have nothing to do with hand placed hero lights.

They might be doing a switch. I don't know. But the comparison shows that RTGI is affecting NPCs in cutscenes at least.

its entirely possible but cutscenes were likely lit just once for the main version. i doubt the artists created two different sets of lighting data for cutscenes.

 

[viveks86]

its entirely possible but cutscenes were likely lit just once for the main version. i doubt the artists created two different sets of lighting data for cutscenes.

Exactly. So that follows that RTGI does affect NPCs in cutscenes, which means they are part of the BVH. They could still be removing them from the BVH during gameplay to maintain performance. Just not sure yet, without on/off comparisons.

 

[Bartski]

 

[SABRE220]

The assets and textures are atrocious and a technical showcase this is not, but on the positive side we finally have a good PSSR showing with Gi even if the GI is limited.

 

[Lokaum D+]

A PS4 game with limited RTGI on top still looks like a PS4 game now with limited RTGI on top.
Most of shots shown in the video are awfully flat lit, have low quality geo and generally look previous gen.
It is good though that they've at least added some RT.

Also, Jesus Atsu is just too ugly, she dosent even have a chin.

 

[Magik85]

Looks pretty much like a PS4 games with better LOD.
However i gotta say DF video look quite a bit better than previous gameplays.
Seems that Yotei has a very good HDR implementation that makes significant difference.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Still PS5 has RTGI only at 30fps when AC shadows has it at 40fps. A bit disappointing for a first party game.

The Pro seems to be a decent version with PSSR putting work to make RT work at 60fps with similar IQ as native 4K.

 

[Venom Snake]

Personally, i'm more curious about the audio; it seems really well mixed, and the resonant, droning texture of the shamisen creates a pleasantly sharp contrast to the more subdued background sound. It's a good test for a good audio system and i'm all for it.

 

[viveks86]

Still PS5 has RTGI only at 30fps when AC shadows has it at 40fps. A bit disappointing for a first party game.

There is no 40 fps mode though? I wonder if they would add one down the line. Seems a no brainer

 

[kazuyamishima]

Wow, Atsu is kinda hot!

Much more attractive than the Orang Utang that voices the character. Well done Sucker Punch for giving us an attractive female protagonist for a change.

Very Hot

 

[R3TRO]

About time my Pro earns its keep.

 

[Arsic]

DF doing a better job than Sony or SuckerPunch could to show off how impressive this game actually is.

Watching in my 4K TV and just blown away by the fidelity here.

I'll wait for impressions but I'm very tempted…

 

[RoadHazard]

Looks amazing. Maybe not a generational leap over Tsushima, but that already looks better than most open world games.

Also makes me want a Pro, but I can live without RT. I need 60fps.

 

[Arsic]

Just finished the entire DF video. First time I've ever watched a whole video from them because the pacing and what they cover tends to derail.

This was the most focused coverage they've ever done of a game and convinced me to buy it.

Day one digital deluxe. Cannot fucking wait!!!

 

[PanzerAzel]

This will be a long week.

 

[viveks86]

There seems to be no compromise at all in draw distance between Pro RT and PS5 non-RT. And double the framerate, while at it. If that isn't a win for Pro, I don't know what is. The RTGI itself is quite subtle outdoors (extremely subtle changes on foliage and quite visible on horse saddle and Atsu's back), but objectively better. Been a while since the Pro had one of those...

Like for like 60 fps mode comparison is a no contest in terms of IQ, so I'm not even going to bother with that.

 

[OLED_Gamer]

John's maturity as a presenter is cool to see. I love his content. Need more DF Retro.

 

[Gaiff]

Still PS5 has RTGI only at 30fps when AC shadows has it at 40fps. A bit disappointing for a first party game.

The Pro seems to be a decent version with PSSR putting work to make RT work at 60fps with similar IQ as native 4K.

What's the resolution in the 40fps mode? Pretty sure Shadows' resolution is quite a bit lower.

Whatever the case, great showcase for the Pro. It needed it after SH F.

 

[Markio128]

I'll definitely be going with the RT 60fps mode on the Pro.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

At least in the DF videos, this game fluctuales from absolutely spectacular to weirdly not feeling that great. There seems to be something off with the lighting in some scenes.

Also glad they nailed PSSR. Getting - or exceeding - 4K native using a 1080p base with PSSR shows that it can be done. Super implementation along with RT on Pro.

 

[Markio128]

I really love the parts where Atsu is riding the horse at a distance from the camera and you can see the scenery for miles. Photo mode is going to get a work out for sure.

 

[DavidGzz]

It will look glorious on my OLED powered by my PS5 Pro. I knew that the sequel to the game I used photo mode on the most would deliver. Haters gonna hate for their own reasons. Lol

 

[MacReady13]

Game definitely looks amazing. Problem was the 1st game kind of bored me. Hoping this isn't as bland as the original was. I had a similar experience with Horizon. 1st game was not great at all yet the sequel I really enjoyed. This might be a similar situation...

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

The thread has been open for almost an hour and barely a page has been left. The haters and trolls who have been fudging the game for months, saying it's for PS4 or posting the worst images possible to make the game look bad and make fools of themselves have no choice but to eat crow. There will be another time.

every gameplay video they showed looked like something from the ps4 pro though....i'd say 70% of people interested in this game were all expressing disappointment with the graphics so let's not try to make this into a "troll" debate

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Nice that Pro owners get some RT lighting at 60fps. Would including the NPCs in the RT lighting coverage and not just the player character really have been that much more demanding? The eventual PC version should allow you to get greater coverage.

That is so strange

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Wait, so now we LIKE Digital Foundry? Make up your mind guys!

What does this mean? Digital Foundry footage is fake and the visuals presented are not in the game? People are just saying the game looks great. No matter where the footage comes from.

 

[yogaflame]

The bottom line is the PS5 even the base Ps5 is a good hardware. It's just lazy developers and bad game engine, ehem UE5, that ruins the game.

 

[Kerotan]

Looks like RTGI only works for Atsu and static geometry, npcs are not covered with it:

Comparison:

But even with all that game still look mediocre:

Also Sony dropped mandate for 1440p resolution in performance modes on base PS5 for their games, 1080p for raster only mode is not so great.... SlimySnake



60fps RT mode is 1080p on Pro.

So what made should pro users go for? Performance with RT or without RT and a higher resolution?

 

[Venom Snake]

I really love the parts where Atsu is riding the horse at a distance from the camera and you can see the scenery for miles. Photo mode is going to get a work out for sure.

What's cool is that it actually feels "miles away" and not just looks like it thanks to various rendering tricks. Like when you see an awsome mountain in the distance but it's actually 100 feet tall and takes 30 seconds to get there.

GoY really captures the sense of scale and it adds a lot to the presentation imo.

 

[Imtjnotu]

my PS5Pro purchase has been redeemed....so glad ive held on to it for a year with nothing to show for until now

 

[Shmunter]

A lot of "just like its predecessor"

 

[yogaflame]

my PS5Pro purchase has been redeemed....so glad ive held on to it for a year with nothing to show for until now

It will be worth it especially next year with GTA6 next year and FSR4 and PSSR integration next year. Good for all of you with ps5 pro. But for me, it looks like I decided to stay with my base ps5 for now.

 

[viveks86]

So what made should pro users go for? Performance with RT or without RT and a higher resolution?

From everything I've seen, performance with RT. Barring a couple of visual oddities, you lose nothing discernible in the process at all. Looks better and plays better.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

GI at 60 fps but but but Pro is a shitty hardware

Just watched the video.

This might be the only game so far that is using Pro hardware properly.

Drop base resolution to 1080p, get RT at 60fps. Then upscale using PSSR.

Apparently PSSR is good if used properly. So its giving all the results that a modern nvidia gpu gives.

Probably will have to wait for next gen when such hardware is standardised so we can get 4k 60 with RT across the board using upscaling.

 

[John Wick]

every gameplay video they showed looked like something from the ps4 pro though....i'd say 70% of people interested in this game were all expressing disappointment with the graphics so let's not try to make this into a "troll" debate

Yeah because the game was in development. The PS4 Pro couldn't do this game@60fps with RTGI.
Nah 70% of people interested in this game weren't expressing disappointment with the graphics at all. That's just you and Gaf. Gaf is a tiny minority of the people who'll be buying this game.