I Believe Having Children Is "Immoral" (Aka: Any Antinatalists Here? )
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BarringGaffner
Member
You are on a desert island, no food/water. You will starve, die of thirst. If you snap your fingers a duplicate of yourself appears. One more person that will suffer and die.
Is it immoral to snap your fingers?
Creating life isn't black and white but we can surely discuss whether creating a life or not creating a life is moral or not.
Obviously everyone procreating as much as possible is immoral because we have finite resources. More people with not enough resources = misery.
OTOH everyone exists, none of us have experienced non-existence
Nope he's overshot it by billions of miles. You're now overthinking his overthinking. Careful were slipping into a paradox.
Bounceounce
Member
I don't believe there's something akin to a soul pre-conception.
I believe that pre-conception people are aware that through conception you will be creating living being, and that you'll be thinking about the potential child as a person you will be taking care of prior to having it, and that you should weigh what that really means.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
He's pro-abortion
Don't try to make sense of his reasoning for it as he posted up. It makes no sense
Good to know you've fully understood death and humanity op
OTOH everyone exists, none of us have experienced non-existence
I don't mean to be flippant, but neither of us knows if that is the case. Inclined to agree based on the evidence, though.
I realize you were (probably) having a bit of a laugh, but I think about this shit a lot and so I am being awkward.
The morality there isn't one of consent, it's of bringing someone into a world knowing their life will be terrible. That is immoral.
However what op argues is that any creation of any life is immoral. Which it is very very different.
Bounceounce
Member
The point is you can't get consent.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
The only guy I know who believes this has gone the following route:
1) Charmed a girl in Texas (he's Canadian) by frequently posting updates of his masturbation habits in a chat room.
2) He then sent her his life's savings and flew from Canada to see her.
3) She gave him her car.
4) In a weird twist he mentioned that prostitution is legal in Nevada, so she moved to Nevada to become a "courtesan"
5) He was heartbroken
6) He moved out to NV
After that, I fully support his assertion that his parents were jerks for not asking him whether or not he wanted to be born.
1) Charmed a girl in Texas (he's Canadian) by frequently posting updates of his masturbation habits in a chat room.
2) He then sent her his life's savings and flew from Canada to see her.
3) She gave him her car.
4) In a weird twist he mentioned that prostitution is legal in Nevada, so she moved to Nevada to become a "courtesan"
5) He was heartbroken
6) He moved out to NV
After that, I fully support his assertion that his parents were jerks for not asking him whether or not he wanted to be born.
I don't mean to be an ass, but you seem like someone who is convinced they're the smartest person they know.
Again you're just overthinking this for the most part. It's not immoral to deny existence to someone who doesn't exist. It's not immoral to not have kids. Hell if you wanna say that person deserves to live people can take my apparently allotted 2 children since that arbitrary number is what were going with, and have extras.
Btw this world has a limited existence, so us using it up is immoral not only to future generations, but all species suffering because of us.
Bounceounce
Member
Fuck off.
Lol k. Btw as I asked before do you get consent from the food you eat to ingest it?
I've been trying to keep up so not sure if it has already been asked but do you believe that the experience of life is generally a net positive, suffering and all?
Bounceounce
Member
bye
I think the point is you don't need it.
Look, do what you want within the bounds of the law, but your 'philosophy' here is literally promoting the end to all life in the universe, so don't be surprised if nobody else takes you up on it.
Ask yourself this: when King Piccolo spit out Piccolo Jr. was it immoral? It was a selfish act and King Piccolo only did it for Piccolo Jr. to carry out his will of world domination, but think of the long term effects and how it went for Piccolo. Without that act Piccolo would never have met Goku and later Gohan, nor would he end up as a parent figure for Gohan. In the end Piccolo experienced a lot of things he would else have not experienced, like true friendship and joy.
You weren't asking me even a little bit, but I'ma say yes.
I don't get why that question doesn't apply. I'm not being facetious I'm legitimately asking. If a theoretical person has to give consent why shouldn't animals or hell veggies? I mean they are living things.
In case you weren't aware, telling other posters to fuck off is banable offense here.
You also can't consent to being banned.
Ha yeah I think most of us would agree but the crux of the philosophy is "to live is to suffer" so they believe they're saving theoretical people from potential suffering
chillybright
Banned
For that to work OP you have to believe in Souls.
And that they exist before flesh.
And there has to be a way to communicate with them, before they came into as "flesh".
Do you believe in souls OP?
That makes it immoral.
Op you do come across as if you've somehow realized some new existence and philosophy . The burden is on you not us. And we can just as easily say fuck off to you . When you go counter humans you have to rack that up with either proof or logical arguments or a I feel this way I may be wrong . I see neither a scientific or emotional argument in your post neither do I see a I could be wrong acknowledgment either . So yes op you should be prepared for a bunch of posters asking why how . It's only logical .
Patrick S.
Banned
Is it immoral to wipe my butt? The tree didn't give its consent to be cut down and made into paper for me to wipe my poo with :/
You can actually, but much like in this case, consent doesn't really matter.
And yeah, whilst that poster could have put it better, I am curious as to the answer. Surely a plant that exists is unable to consent to an even greater degree than a non-existent human, so how can you justify eating them?
I am curious OP.
Why do you see the desire to have children as a selfish one?
I have personally always seen the desire to reproduce as a form of self preservation that is found in all life. A more simplistic version is when microorganisms combine their DNA with other microorganisms in order for their genetic code to survive. We experience the same thing, it's just much more complex.
Why do you see the desire to have children as a selfish one?
I have personally always seen the desire to reproduce as a form of self preservation that is found in all life. A more simplistic version is when microorganisms combine their DNA with other microorganisms in order for their genetic code to survive. We experience the same thing, it's just much more complex.
OP feels like freshman philosophy major man.
Don't worry OP, us smart introverts like most of neogaf are, we have all been there, rationalizing our own position ad infinitum until we make claims like I don't have kids I don't like kids I must not want kids the categorical imperative states nobody must want kids not having kids is a moral choice not borne out of necessity in fact necessarily one should not get kids.
As you get older you learn to get out of your own head more, and appreciate the phenomenological. You'll meet someone and go along even though you are totally against this kids thing, and before you know it you're lovingly hugging your son who's super excited for finally being able to form a sentence.
Don't worry OP, us smart introverts like most of neogaf are, we have all been there, rationalizing our own position ad infinitum until we make claims like I don't have kids I don't like kids I must not want kids the categorical imperative states nobody must want kids not having kids is a moral choice not borne out of necessity in fact necessarily one should not get kids.
As you get older you learn to get out of your own head more, and appreciate the phenomenological. You'll meet someone and go along even though you are totally against this kids thing, and before you know it you're lovingly hugging your son who's super excited for finally being able to form a sentence.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
How do you feel about abortion. Should women have to get consent from the embryo first?
Bounceounce
Member
My reply from page 2 on a question slightly similar to that:
"I'm glad I was born, and if given the option to be reincarnated I would choose so (as long as I'm born into a body with at minimum my level of intelligence, which isn't much at all but is serviceable)."
I don't know whether life is more negative than positive, some days I might lean towards negative,some day towards postive, and others I might say it's even.
Either way I appreciate all the negativity in my life/the world as apart of the human experience as much as the positivity.
It makes things interesting.
It is; but don't worry Jesus died for your butthole hygiene.
In terms of morality it is literally evil.
He's raging because he doesn't have an answer to the question. Plants, animals, etc. We use all of these things for countless items not just food.
I'll say again if theoretical beings need to give consent, I don't see why actual living things don't need to.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Don't let the dogpile bring you down, OP. I don't agree with you, but I understand how you feel.
The fact of the matter, as someone posted earlier, is that shitty people aren't going to suddenly stop having babies, so it's important for conscientious people to continue doing so.
Instead of focusing on not bringing kids into a garbage world, we should be focused on making the world not garbage.
The fact of the matter, as someone posted earlier, is that shitty people aren't going to suddenly stop having babies, so it's important for conscientious people to continue doing so.
Instead of focusing on not bringing kids into a garbage world, we should be focused on making the world not garbage.
chillybright
Banned
cyberheater
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I knew it was a mistake entering this thread...
Crayon
Member
People are being too hard on you. It's a perfectly fine stance and it's not like you can't change your mind.
When you have uncommon views, others will laugh at you. It's true. And you should be prepared with a little self deprecating joke so you can laugh with them. And don;t try to persuade anyone. You can find a way to express your unique views and uniqueness.
Airola
Member
Yeah, that's a very good post.
I don't get why some people criticize wanting to have children as something selfish when not wanting to have children is also very selfish but from a different perspective.
But only one of these choices is something that actually has a potential for change. Whenever you want something to happen or to not happen, it is selfish. You want it because in a way or another it feels better to you. It might feel good to you to think that there are less people "destroying the planet", but that will still comes from a selfish place.
So I don't think giving birth should be discussed from this perspective at all. I mean, so what if it's selfish. If I want kids to bring joy to me, am I not allowed? If I want to bring joy to kids, am I not allowed?
I feel like people are way too afraid of pain and suffering that it has become toxic mentality in a way that it has brought this types of "extinctional" philosophies into peoples minds. I mean, back in the day people absolutely knew that life is hard as fuck and people eventually will get hurt. But it didn't stop people from getting enjoyment from life and cherishing new life whenever it was born. Now it seems that the mere thought of living or allowing to live a life with burdens and pain is enough to consider ending procreation for good.
Bounceounce
Member
If so then I'll take the ban as I broke the rules.
(And I technically consented to being banned by signing up to the site)
So you would say you've generally had a positive experience with life, and yet are rooting for the end of the human species out of moral principle?
well we can go a step further and say having children at all is immoral when we are faced with the reality that there are plenty of children out there who already need parents that you can adopt.
looking at it that way, you'd have to be pretty selfish to want to spawn your own right?
I prefer not to overthink things, myself.
looking at it that way, you'd have to be pretty selfish to want to spawn your own right?
I prefer not to overthink things, myself.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
Between this thread and the guy who is "seeing" a girl who is still sleeping with her ex I have had a ton of good laughs.
I feel sorry for your keyboard as it obviously couldn't consent to typing out this convoluted throw-up logic that are your posts.
So are you then equally concerned that you're depriving life to theoretical people? Say you're in a situation where someone wants to have a child with you, if you say no then you and you alone are responsible for that person not being alive.
Damned if you do damned if you don't?
Patrick S.
Banned
You are aware that all reincarnation life religions tend on if you do bad you'll be a "lower" life form so yes good being reincarnated as a human ... It's considered a honour to be reincarnated as a human or higher it means you did well in life .... Mostly the expectation is you'll lend up lower etc etc ... Op seriously you have to really read up and study before posting about thing you are obviously unaware of .
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