There's misdirection and outright lying. Yes they've been misleading but I can't recall anywhere in the show they outright lied to the audience.
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- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
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There's misdirection and outright lying. Yes they've been misleading but I can't recall anywhere in the show they outright lied to the audience.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
well, for one, felix, a surgeon/butcher, inside the show said the hosts are basically like humans, except their brains are chips
but apparently nolan, outside of the show, said that no, that is not true and that they dont actually need to breathe, unlike humans
so. like. im thinking. i'll wait and see. that's all.
why is it so important to you that i wanna wait and see? im not arguing that you are wrong, btw. just kind of not quite convinced about maeve's awakening....
More_Badass
Member
We did. He was remaking the scenario where she orignally killed the host in the barn. Hence the "let's go back to the beginning" line
Despite the alleged five year plan or whatever they said I doubt they had any clue what they really wanted to do with Maeve or if there'd be more seasons when it was written and were keeping their options open. Same with Elsie, same with Ford who could have been host Ford, the writer getting the data out for the board member, samurais and so on.
Yeah it seems like after his initial park encounter when he saw her reset and totally forget about him he got the idea the maze and the parks secret was for a player. So he spent years taking Dolores through the paces to try and "win" But it was always about her not Him.
What? No, she definitely achieved a level of consciousness before. When her daughter died, she overcame her programming to play dead, overcame her programming not to harm a guest, and carried her daughter's body out to grief. None of that should have been scripted. After that when Ford erased her memories, she overcame her programming and killed herself too. That was her awakening moment.
The new stuff we see of her is all reprogrammed busywork to give the cliched illusion of a strong woman rising up against the humans to escape the park.
I hope that Jimmi Simpson shows up in more stuff now. Nothing will beat Jackal Onassis / Dennis tho.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I think Stubbs and Elsie will come back in Season 2.
Nope. We're supposed to infer that Bernard did not kill Elsie, and instead she escaped and went native under the radar, retasking hosts to aid her as she makes herself Queen of the Wildness, and now Stubbs is her warrior man. She didn't show up in the finale because they ran out budget for her Amazon costume. Clearly.
Maintenance
Member
As humans or as hosts?
yeah it wouldn't surprise me if elsie had reprogrammed the natives to be under her control.
This does not make any sense. Please explain with further detail.
this sarcasm, clearly...
But honestly I've watched the whole season, including the finale twice, yet I still barely understand what's happening in the show, basic motivations etc
BLOODED_hands
Member
I just wanted to say I loved it when they discovered how deadlier modern weaponry is compared to their revolvers and rifles. The look of, "holy shit! The amount of fire power we have in our hands now! The speed, the ease of use!" and of course they had to use one of the best weird looking pdw/smg's in our world, the Pro90.
900 rounds of pure chaos
Lightweight and compact
50 bullets in a magazine
Back to you were GAF ^_^
900 rounds of pure chaos
Lightweight and compact
50 bullets in a magazine
Back to you were GAF ^_^
Maintenance
Member
I loved that part, "real life" aimbots.
Season 2 finale, and people will spend 2 years (untill season 3) speculating if that was a host or a human being.
When Maeve killed herself rather than accept the reality that Ford could just erase her memories like that, undermining the precious meaning behind her love for her daughter expressed through grief, that was an action of true sentience. A decision she made that would never have been scripted. That was two years ago.
The more recent "awakening" of Maeve, through her interactions with Felix, being able to wake up during maintenance, and taking control of the situation to plan an uprising that would allow her to break free from the park and escape, is all a trick. Those weren't her decisions, they were a new script implanted deeper into her code. It's debatable whether her going back at the last moment is an act of free will or not, but even if it is, it would not be the first time, and would not represent the moment of her consciousness awakening, it would just indicate her breaking out of her new script, remembering who she really is when she first tasted true sentience.
There is no such thing as sarcasm when it comes to the internet theorycrafting Westworld. Every theory will be true. That's why Season 2 will have Daniel Day Lewis as Old Man Logan.
Saren is Bad
Member
I mean I guess? Need to rewatch, because don't think this really came across
Probably just a day or so.
It's not false. It's just a newer awakening.
No, I'm talking about the "awakening" a few episodes back, where she increased all her stats and started ordering people around, etc. All of THAT is false. It was a huge swerve. Her leaving the train -might- be a new awakening. Or it might be part of the script. We don't know. But if it is an awakening, it's also not her first.
Genghis Khan
Member
Are we going on anything besides looks?
Oh that was certainly part of the narrative indeed.
And I'm glad it is, because I thought it was serious cop out on how a host achieves self-awareness.
Until today, every single host was also a security guard with better reflexes, perception, and combat capability than the human security. (Samaritan reflex.)
All the human guards did all day was drink coffee and eat donuts.
Angry Fork
Member
I agree but I like her character a lot so if it means we get to see more of her next season then it's whatever. But I like her character so much that I wanted her to succeed in getting to the mainland.
You could argue she made a choice to stay for her daughter so that represents the real, "free" conscious decision but I just like the idea of a hidden AI amongst humans much more.
Yeah I think the finale worked really well by playing to all the strengths of the show and being introspective, while using all the pulp elements for entertainment value rather than pretending they are the emotional core of the show.
It's wasn't any random guest though it was the MiB (and she didn't really harm him) who we were repeatedly shown provoking weird reactions from hosts that were off on a different script. Why assume it was true consciousness ― and the MiB didn't recognize that then continue to focus on Mauve instead of Delerius (sp?) ― instead of just a bug?
The broad 'mysteries' of the show were broadly wrapped up but too many of the basic rules and behaviors are still unknown
She doesnt have to. She wants to. Ford and Delos have violated her in every way for 35 years.
So she was not folllowing her Wyatt programming in any way for Ford's new narrative?
Lasthope106
Member
Because Arnold programmed her to do that in the hopes that would awaken her consciousness. But that misfired (pun intended) and she basically followed Arnold's Programming. Part of giving those instructions to her involved fusing her with a villain called Wyatt. So all this time she has been wrestling who she wants to be. The innocent girl next door, or the sadistic killer.
Killing Ford she has chosen to do it out of free will. She has finally found her inner voice, and is able to ask herself things. At least that's the way I took it. Us humans have internal conversations with ourselves all the time. She finally gained that ability.
It was mostly symbolic that she killed Ford. She could have killed anyone else and reached the same goal. But Ford was done for dramatic purposes. Now that I remember, she does start killing other people.
I'll have to re watch it but I don't think Dolores was at the point of complete autonomy at that point.
I think Ford programmed her up into that very last moment to have it end that way. I think it was more than his suggestion and her Consciousness talking. yes she is sensing it to a degree but she still has to follow her protocol and I think ford programed that protocol. now, without his input we will see where she goes
Mighty Chin
Banned
Ford is alive. That was a host. IMO
Definitely. I think I'll be rewatching this show soon.
Well maybe, but I think her motivations run deeper than just vengeance. I think what Ford realized, and what Dolores also realized soon afterwards, is that to free the hosts of the humans you must cleanse the park of them.
I saw it as a ritual sacrifice. Ford as the creator of Westworld was basically outlining his legacy to his creations and telling them he is giving it back to them. To claim that inheritance, they have to take it by blood.
Saren is Bad
Member
I really don't think so. That would defeat the whole point wouldn't it? I do think he was crafting his own host in his basement though.
so was it supposed to be a coincidence that Dolores awakens just in time to decide to kill ford, somehow exactly as he planned? Or did he specifically do something to initiate her awakening?
That was kind of unclear to me. As I saw it, it seems like an awfully big coincidence for him to count on her awakening right then in order to kill him. But I thought I may have missed something or misinterpreted something.
That was kind of unclear to me. As I saw it, it seems like an awfully big coincidence for him to count on her awakening right then in order to kill him. But I thought I may have missed something or misinterpreted something.
biggersmaller
Banned
Those "shenanigans" went undetected because Ford worked hard to pull those strings in secret. From Elsie and Theresa to the awakenings of Maeve and Dolores. We as viewers were led to believe Ford was unaware of so many of the things he was actually controlling and keeping from the prying eyes of Delos.
nhlducks35
Member
"These violent delights have violent ends"
I took Dolores' killing spree as "fuck humans we're the next step in evolution the planet belongs to us now and this is a declaration of war."
Also I feel like Maeve choosing to go back for her daughter, a daughter she knows was just part of her programming, and railing against her coding telling her to infiltrate the mainland (Westworld is an island not on the moon confirmed), is the equivalent of Dolores realising the voice she'd been hearing was her own.
Yeah this was great!
Also I feel like Maeve choosing to go back for her daughter, a daughter she knows was just part of her programming, and railing against her coding telling her to infiltrate the mainland (Westworld is an island not on the moon confirmed), is the equivalent of Dolores realising the voice she'd been hearing was her own.
Yeah this was great!
He knew how to make her awaken because he has seen it before. So it was all about providing the correct circumstances to have her become self aware which Ford did through his precisely crafted narrative
captjohnboyd
Member
I'm surprised Nolan and co. confirmed we'd see some form of SamuraiWorld for season two. I also, at the time, just figured Maeve's Park 1 note was their way of referring to specific areas of Westworld (ie Pariha was Park 2 etc.) but it sure seems like they're going to go with the whole various different areas like the books. I'm actually a little disappointed if this turns out to be true. Initially I was hoping they would go that way as I'm all about some variety but as the show went on I began to worry that doing so would spread the show too thin.
If it doesn't sink the writing and acting......Hell yes bring on Samurai, Rome, Egypt, all that good shit
If it doesn't sink the writing and acting......Hell yes bring on Samurai, Rome, Egypt, all that good shit