Wired: Please Don’t Take Final Fantasy XV‘s Worst Level Away From Us

I'm not talking about my experience per se, I did use Holy for some of it, and ran past Axemen in other cases. I didn't entirely use stealth or anything, I'm just saying I could see why someone would play through it in stealth.

I mean the Stealth is pretty un-fun, you even said it was un-intuitive yourself. It clearly was intended to be an option despite that though, bringing up tool tips pushing you into it, and having the little alcoves dotted around.

The argument that using the ring to get through it makes it more fun I think this is very much a case of opinions. I don't think using the ring to get through it is fun either.

My experience of using Death on the Axemen and Iron Giant was it just didn't work. I held the button down for about 4 or 5 seconds until they attacked me, saw it didn't seem to work, so I tried something else. Apparently YMMV on this I guess.

Using Holy to kill them takes a good number of Holy usages, I think it took me about 5 or 6 holy hits to kill the Axemen and even that spider. It's not particularly interactive to use holy because you're literally just holding dodge to kill them. It's not fun un-like the main combat is.

Altema costs all of your mana, so it forces you to wait for it to recharge or use Ethers.

All of these options are pretty time consuming and add to the length of the chapter.

I mean I can see why some people may find the ring fun to use, it's a new interesting gadget. It just wasn't for me, and apparently many others.

Note: I'm not sure if any magic upgrades affect the power of the ring. I didn't put any points into magic because I found the magic system to be a bit disappointing, so I dunno if that's why my ring did a lot less than some other peoples.

I didn't have any magic accessories on, so i doubt it.

The stealth IS unfun. I tried it once just to see, got caught, and just murdered all of them after that. My immediate conclusion is that it wasn't actually for stealth. It was a way to hide and regenerate MP if you ran out while trying to kill them...like the cover spots everywhere else in the game.

If you didn't think the ring was fun, then that's where the disagreement comes from. I thought the ring was awesome. It was dark, it was different, it killed things way faster than I could have with actual weapons, and it had an ominous effect on Noctis the same way it had on enemies. Helped with the tone shift.

Mechanically, Death as a spell was interesting to me because of how it very visually altered the enemies you were fighting. Even if it does take 15 seconds to kill an Iron Giant with Death, by the 9th second they are very obviously being affected by the spell. The game even gives them a death status debuff icon. This is where much of my confusion is coming from.

Admittedly, I only used Alterna when it was obvious I wasn't going to get the chance to kill anything with Death. I felt like it was overkill and kind of enjoyed sucking enemies dry anyway.

I actually discovered Holy before it told me about it and i didn't know what it was. I never deliberately used it because it didn't feel like it was designed to actually combat enemies with.

Didn't mind popping Ethers because Ether in FFXV is useless in the vast majority of areas because warpstriking replenishes all your MP anyway. I was actually happy to make use of them, and this is where i stopped deliberately spamming Alterna because I actually began to feel like i was cheesing the area. Again, this is where my confusion comes when people say the ring wasn't working for them.

Finally...and this is the important bit....I didn't really feel like being MP-less was a design flaw. It felt like it was a design choice, because the chapter is about loneliness, foreboding and desperation. You have issues in ch.13 that you don't have anywhere else in the game.


My only issue with the experience is that it just lasted a bit too long, and of course there's the narrative problem of it also being used to patch up some lore information before the chapter ends, which honestly is THE biggest design issue with the chapter to me.

I was like around 45 and it took me like a full MP bar and then some to kill the larger enemies. Also, it took a good couple minutes because your MP bar took a full 2 minutes to refill. The spider enemy right before you get to
fake Prompto
was especially awful and time consuming. Am I missing something here? It was a huge pain in the ass to use the death spell (and really every spell in this segment) for me. I don't see how this design is defensible.

I guess my experience was just a bit different from others.

I had a huge stack of Ethers because I never found any real use for them. If i felt like my MP was taking too long to replenish, i'd just pop one, so i never had this "waiting" issue in the chapter.

And It didn't really matter to me how long it took to kill the enemies because even though their lifebar never moved, you could visibly see how close they were to being insta-killed.

It also helped that Death slows the enemy down alot while you're using it and it heals you afterwards.
 
I didn't have any magic accessories on, so i doubt it.

The stealth IS unfun. I tried it once just to see, got caught, and just murdered all of them after that. My immediate conclusion is that it wasn't actually for stealth. It was a way to hide and regenerate MP if you ran out while trying to kill them...like the cover spots everywhere else in the game.

If you didn't think the ring was fun, then that's where the disagreement comes from. I thought the ring was awesome. It was dark, it was different, it killed things way faster than I could have with actual weapons, and it had an ominous effect on Noctis the same way it had on enemies. Helped with the tone shift.

Mechanically, Death as a spell was interesting to me because of how it very visually altered the enemies you were fighting. Even if it does take 15 seconds to kill an Iron Giant with Death, by the 9th second they are very obviously being affected by the spell. The game even gives them a death status debuff icon. This is where much of my confusion is coming from.

Admittedly, I only used Alterna when it was obvious I wasn't going to get the chance to kill anything with Death. I felt like it was overkill and kind of enjoyed sucking enemies dry anyway.

I actually discovered Holy before it told me about it and i didn't know what it was. I never deliberately used it because it didn't feel like it was designed to actually combat enemies with.


Finally...and this is the important bit....I didn't really feel like being MP-less was a design flaw. It felt like it was a design choice, because the chapter is about loneliness, foreboding and desperation. You have issues in ch.13 that you don't have anywhere else in the game.


My only issue with the experience is that it just lasted a bit too long, and of course there's the narrative problem of it also being used to patch up some lore information before the chapter ends, which honestly is THE biggest design issue with the chapter to me.

It isn't just for cover. The game literally tells you with a tooltip to use the hide spots to avoid combat, I don't know how you can think it wasn't designed for stealthing. If you try and hide while in combat and the enemy is reasonably close to you, the axeman will forcefully pull you out of cover, akin what happens if you got spot in some stealth games.

As for Death who is going to wait 9 seconds to figure out that Death actually works. Are you really that surprised people didn't wait that long?
 
It isn't just for cover. The game literally tells you with a tooltip to use the hide spots to avoid combat, I don't know how you can think it wasn't designed for stealthing. If you try and hide while in combat and the enemy is reasonably close to you, the axeman will forcefully pull you out of cover, akin what happens if you got spot in some stealth games.

As for Death who is going to wait 9 seconds to figure out that Death actually works. Are you really that surprised people didn't wait that long?

Sigh...this is tiring, it seems like (apparently) no aspect I bring up was shared by anyone else. I don't remember how long it takes for one of them to actually be killed by Death.

But if you guys complaining about it didn't notice the extremely conspicuous model deformity happening to the victim, then I really don't know what to say.



So nobody thought it was strange watching enemies being sucked into bones, nobody had any Ethers by that point, Alterna never worked correctly, and you felt a compelling need to use cover spots.


I'm out of ammo. Sorry.
 
I was like around 45 and it took me like a full MP bar and then some to kill the larger enemies. Also, it took a good couple minutes because your MP bar took a full 2 minutes to refill. The spider enemy right before you get to
fake Prompto
was especially awful and time consuming. Am I missing something here? It was a huge pain in the ass to use the death spell (and really every spell in this segment) for me. I don't see how this design is defensible.

The spider enemy took me about 3 seconds to kill because there's the spell mapped to triangle that
murders everything around you.
 
Sigh...this is tiring, it seems like (apparently) no aspect I bring up was shared by anyone else. I don't remember how long it takes for one of them to actually be killed by Death.

But if you guys complaining about it didn't notice the extremely conspicuous model deformity happening to the victim, then I really don't know what to say.



So nobody thought it was strange watching enemies being sucked into bones, nobody had any Ethers by that point, Alterna never worked correctly, and you felt a compelling need to use cover spots.


I'm out of ammo. Sorry.
ITT People are different, have different opinions, have different experiences in games, and I don't understand how that's possible.
 
The spider enemy took me about 3 seconds to kill because there's the spell mapped to triangle that
murders everything around you.

Tried that, didn't work, ended up with no MP and had to use an item to recover MP.

Alterna spell didn't work very often for me, only on weak mobs, and even then didn't kill everything on screen. I don't know why my experience was so different from others. Could be a magic strength issue? Dunno. But people should stop posting like Alterna is the panacea for garbage encounters. It's not. Definitely YMMV.
 
It's the next chapter I need to do so I can't wait to experience the outrage.









I will also not tolerate bad things being said about Aranea.
 
I think charitably it can be described as "atmospheric" so perhaps they should fix it by making it a movie. It's certainly not...like, fun I guess.

Im gonna go with this. Besides it being 15-30 minutes too long, it really wasn't that bad. It's most definitely not the worse thing to ever happen in FF history.
 
Tried that, didn't work, ended up with no MP and had to use an item to recover MP.

Alterna spell didn't work very often for me, only on weak mobs, and even then didn't kill everything on screen. I don't know why my experience was so different from others. Could be a magic strength issue? Dunno. But people should stop posting like Alterna is the panacea for garbage encounters. It's not. Definitely YMMV.

I think it's a placement issue, sometimes it gets the mobs and sometimes it doesn't depending on their location compared to the spell.

Anyone else find it weird that it's called Alterna and not Ultima?
 
God this chapter was a tragedy, so bad. I was surprised it was in the supposed polished half of FFXV. More like rushed half now that I think about it.
 
This chapter is such a mess and buggy also.... had a point in my play when I was being attacked but the soldiers attacks opened the door..... on re-entering the door the soldier could attack me but I could do nothing as the game wasnt reading me in a battle
 
The spider enemy took me about 3 seconds to kill because there's the spell mapped to triangle that
murders everything around you.

I don't think I had the MP for that at the time. Are you saying that somehow excuses the entire encounter when only one spell that consumes an entire MP bar can kill an enemy in a non-frustrating and time consuming way? Because to me, that is exactly what chapter 13 is so shitty. You have limited options, on only some of them work, sometimes.
 
I just completed this chapter and holy shit was it out of place. They
take everything away from you
and then it into a ticking resident evil halfway simulator. PLEASE. It's as awful as everyone says.
 
From what I heard of chapter 13 being a real big confusing mess I decided to just stop at Chapter 5 and I will resume when the patch releases fixing it all. I don't want my expierence to be ruined by utter shit I want this to be a glorious adventure and it has been so far for me.
 
ITT People are different, have different opinions, have different experiences in games, and I don't understand how that's possible.

I can understand differing experiences up to a certain point. But when it gets to a certain level of unbelievable I just start to assume incompetence.


The only reason i'm not going to just flat-out say you played it wrong is because some people are reporting Alterna just not working when it was basically 100% success rate for me and there's no possible way i had higher stats than you.


If thats what Square means by "making the ring stronger", then yes, they really need to patch it.

But yeah, to each their own. I just disagree with you.
 
That's actually an interesting point, but if the developers feel like they weren't able to execute their vision for that section at launch and that's why they're patching it, then please do.
 
I can understand differing experiences up to a certain point. But when it gets to a certain level of unbelievable I just start to assume incompetence.


The only reason i'm not going to just flat-out say you played it wrong is because some people are reporting Alterna just not working when it was basically 100% success rate for me and there's no possible way i had higher stats than you.

It's not just Alterna. There's loads of people in this thread agreeing with me with the other spells too.

I don't know how you can call all of us incompetent.

I'm not calling you a liar because you had a completely different experience to all of us.
 
I'm at chapter 6 and I have managed to totally avoid all the spoilers so far and only know that ch. 13 is sort of grueling, I guess? I actually want to experience it before they patch it but also don't want to rush through the game.
 
It's not just Alterna. There's loads of people in this thread agreeing with me with the other spells too.

I don't know how you can call all of us incompetent.

I'm not calling you a liar because you had a completely different experience to all of us.

I just said I can't, because other people obviously reported the same issue. It's an issue I didn't have, and others in the same thread have reported they didn't have.
 
Well I fucking can't think of anything worse than Chapter 13 in this entire series, for fucking realz.

It's only 15 games, seriously. It's not like I'm saying it's the worst thing to ever be in a video game ever. I'm saying it's the worst thing in this mainline series. It's not like 15 is THAT many games so I really don't see how it's such a crazy statement to people.


I'd take repeating chapter 13 over doing these shitty sealed dungeons. They all look the same. Small cave rooms connected by doors with the same 2-3 types of repeating enemy for 100 fucking floors. At least these are optional though but jeez they could have put a modicum of effort in these places. It's like Via Infinito but somehow worse.
 
From what I heard of chapter 13 being a real big confusing mess I decided to just stop at Chapter 5 and I will resume when the patch releases fixing it all. I don't want my expierence to be ruined by utter shit I want this to be a glorious adventure and it has been so far for me.

It's not confusing, it's EXTREMELY straight-forward. The corridors have a few short alternate paths to pick up items, but it's not really possible to get lost. It just goes on forever.
 
I'm surprised people had time to Death the Iron Giant. I couldn't keep from being interrupted. I would have enjoyed the stealth aspect more if I could have cast Death on an unaware enemy but you can only use the ring in combat (which I guess you're expected to avoid entirely if you choose stealth?).
 
From what I heard of chapter 13 being a real big confusing mess I decided to just stop at Chapter 5 and I will resume when the patch releases fixing it all. I don't want my expierence to be ruined by utter shit I want this to be a glorious adventure and it has been so far for me.

yyyyyyyeah i wouldn't expect too much revision where ch. 13 is concerned
 
I don't think I had the MP for that at the time. Are you saying that somehow excuses the entire encounter when only one spell that consumes an entire MP bar can kill an enemy in a non-frustrating and time consuming way? Because to me, that is exactly what chapter 13 is so shitty. You have limited options, on only some of them work, sometimes.

Even if it doesn't excuse the encounter, it certainly mitigates it. If the game had forced you to use only the death spell then yes, it'd be a lot more frustrating. But it provides you with two others that make the fight not only doable, but in the case of Alterna, totally avoidable.

I didn't have any issues with Alterna the two times I used it, so maybe that's why my outlook on the encounter is more positive. I could see how it might be frustrating if it didn't work correctly. But even if I did have issues with it, the dodge spell was more than enough to make fights relatively easy.
 
Even if it doesn't excuse the encounter, it certainly mitigates it. If the game had forced you to use only the death spell then yes, it'd be a lot more frustrating. But it provides you with two others that make the fight not only doable, but in the case of Alterna, totally avoidable.

I didn't have any issues with Alterna the two times I used it, so maybe that's why my outlook on the encounter is more positive. I could see how it might be frustrating if it didn't work correctly. But even if I did have issues with it, the dodge spell was more than enough to make fights relatively easy.

Made fights easy, but required almost no input from the player, so they weren't interesting or engaging. My Holy was doing around 500-600, so it took a long time to beat even an axe man.

Since Alterna didn't work for me any of the times I tried it on larger enemies, that's how I was forced to progress through every encounter.

I also wonder why people think it's okay that these designs are crap since you can just bypass them with a god spell. Shouldn't they be designed around challenging the player. Shouldn't they do something interesting with this new mechanic that's forced on us? It's okay that it's shit because we can just hold triangle to win? lolol
 
Never had a problem one-shotting everything with Alterna as long as they were all properly in range and I was quite underleveled. Alterna doesn't make this chapter half as short as it should be so it's still shitty.

I think it's a placement issue, sometimes it gets the mobs and sometimes it doesn't depending on their location compared to the spell.

Anyone else find it weird that it's called Alterna and not Ultima?
It's not called Ultima in Japanese either so it's deliberate.
 
To those talking about Stealth, it's pretty much impossible even in the stealth missions.

Though I can say Magic is still VERY strong even without accessories.

I just saved items that let you cast spells
Two, Three, and Four times.
 
I can understand differing experiences up to a certain point. But when it gets to a certain level of unbelievable I just start to assume incompetence.


The only reason i'm not going to just flat-out say you played it wrong is because some people are reporting Alterna just not working when it was basically 100% success rate for me and there's no possible way i had higher stats than you.


If thats what Square means by "making the ring stronger", then yes, they really need to patch it.

But yeah, to each their own. I just disagree with you.

Yeah let's jump to the "everyone but the people who agree with me" obviously don't know how to play argument. We know how to play and are competent game players. This is not the issue. This section wasn't hard it was just poorly designed and boring.
 
I can think of several worse from XII and XIII at least. It honestly wasn't that bad.
Can you share some?

I did not played FFXIII but there isn't one single part in FFXII bad designed like Chapter 13.

I never expected a FF game go so low in bad design.

PS. lol at the guy trying to say we didn't know how to play this part lol
 
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