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[LordKasual]

How exactly do they plan on making it easier? I just beat this chapter last night and it was already ridiculously easy. The small goblins would die in one dodge, axemen would die in about 5 but I had infinite MP(it would regen incredibly fast) so I fail to see what's hard about it.

Im starting to think there's a level difference here between posters.

Spoiler

I can't remember my Holy doing too much damage, but I remember Death being very satisfying to use and Alterna basically being the wipe button.

Spoiler

I ran out of MP once and had to start hiding to regenerate, but then I realized that i still had tons of curatives and just played through the chapter like a death god.

The funny thing about Chapter 13 is that

Spoiler

some people are describing it as a stealth section, but for me the chapter slowly went from stealth to power fantasy as I got used to the ring. I thought it was a brilliant way to showcase the Ring's power, but yeah it just went on a bit too long.

No

Stop being the person who's such a huge fan of something that anything overly negative about it must be hyperbole. GAF's overuse of this term as of late is annoying as hell.

I really don't think you've been reading some of the comments surrounding this game, or certainly not just comments on GAF in general in various subjects.

This place is definitely heavy on hyperbole, which is okay because this is the internets, but nonetheless. Calling Chapter 13 the worst segment in any FF game is...well, subjective. But to most people, yeah, it's absolutely hyperbole.

You can't think of any puzzle, any sidequest, any area with way too many random battles, any badly designed dungeon in any FF game that's worse than Chapter 13??? For realz??????

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

It's a couple hours of terrible mechanics that just plain are not fun. I didn't have any trouble with it. I didn't find it difficult. I found it boring. I found the design boring. I found the encounters boring. I found the atmosphere terrible (something some people keep saying was good). They took away literally everything I was enjoying about the game and turned it into a low budget resident evil. That people are saying you can just bypass the mechanics of the chapter they (try to) force on you by just holding square says it all.

It's not that it's difficult. Making it easier doesn't fix it. The section of the game is just plain not entertaining on any level to play. The only reason I struggled through is because I'd invested too much time into the game in an effort to get to endgame content to stop playing this shitty ass chapter. But if not for the promise of great postgame content, I absolutely would have quit.

I'm not speaking in hyperbole. I mean exactly what I say. This was the worst section in any videogame I have played in at least a decade. It is BY FAR the worst segment I have ever played in any FF game. It is awful.

I mean I've played worse things before, and I've played worse things this year too. I'm pretty sure even the bolded is pure hyperbole. It's significantly worse than any other section in any FF game? I could list sections of FF8 that are boring as all hell, same as with FF9 having areas that just drag on and on. I could list a large majority of FFX and XIII for being equally boring and long too. It's not a good section for sure but lots of FF games have awful sections in them.

 

[level1]

I find it strange how people give out misleading information when trying to explain why chapter 13 is oh so bad. To whoever is curious

Spoiler

no, the chapter doesn't take away all of your abilities, you get a new royal arm 20 minutes in and pretty much play normally with some pretty cool new mechanics added on top. I quite enjoyed the relationship between royal arm health drain, death health leeching and holy explosive dodging. Also, you never have to rely on just a single move, because even in the first 20 minutes you have access to 3 spells, one of which is a wormhole which instakills everything in sight

Is the design of the dungeon bland? Sure. But to me this is offset by some really good story moments.

 

[Skilletor]

I mean I've played worse things before, and I've played worse things this year too. I'm pretty sure even the bolded is pure hyperbole. It's significantly worse than any other section in any FF game? I could list sections of FF8 that are boring as all hell, same as with FF9 having areas that just drag on and on. I could list a large majority of FFX and XIII for being equally boring and long too. It's not a good section for sure but lots of FF games have awful sections in them.

You are not me. It is not hyperbole if that's how I feel, but your opinion is different.

I really don't think you've been reading some of the comments surrounding this game, or certainly not just comments on GAF in general in various subjects.

This place is definitely heavy on hyperbole, which is okay because this is the internets, but nonetheless. Calling Chapter 13 the worst segment in any FF game is...well, subjective. But to most people, yeah, it's absolutely hyperbole.

You can't think of any puzzle, any sidequest, any area with way too many random battles, any badly designed dungeon in any FF game that's worse than Chapter 13??? For realz??????

No, I can't. Because I've beaten every mainline Final Fantasy and several spinoffs. I have never once thought, "This is so horrible that I don't want to play it anymore" in any other FF. I did multiple times with Chapter 13.

So, yes, "for realz."

 

[FlaygletheBagel]

Reading about Chapter 13 here on GAF made me expect that it was going to be one of the worst things ever put into a video game. But I played through it a couple days ago and finished it feeling genuinely impressed. I agree that it's way too long, but I think the harsh criticism directed towards

Spoiler

the ring mechanics, the stealth, and the tonal shift

is a little overexaggerated.

The

Spoiler

dodge mechanic

can be easily abused to the point where stealth is completely unnecessary, so it's not like the game forces you into it. IMO the

Spoiler

horror-like

atmosphere is what I appreciated most about it, and I'm typically a pansy when it comes to

Spoiler

frequent jump scares and mind fuckery. I thought it was an interesting shift in tone. And stripping you of your bros for a little while, while I don't really like when the game does it, made me appreciate it all the more when you get reunited with them.

 

[LordKasual]

I find it strange how people give out misleading information when trying to explain why chapter 13 is oh so bad. To whoever is curious

Spoiler

no, the chapter doesn't take away all of your abilities, you get a new royal arm 20 minutes in and pretty much play normally with some pretty cool new mechanics added on top. I quite enjoyed the relationship between royal arm health drain, death health leeching and holy explosive dodging. Also, you never have to rely on just a single move, because even in the first 20 minutes you have access to 3 spells, one of which is a wormhole which instakills everything in sight

Is the design of the dungeon bland? Sure. But to me this is offset by some really good story moments.

Yeah, people are intentionally omitting the meat of what happens in the chapter in order to make it sound like an aimless design decision. But the decision was clearly very deliberate.

You are not me. It is not hyperbole if that's how I feel, but your opinion is different.



No, I can't. Because I've beaten every mainline Final Fantasy and several spinoffs. I have never once thought, "This is so horrible that I don't want to play it anymore" in any other FF. I did multiple times with Chapter 13.

So, yes, "for realz."

Well, i found the chapter intriguing, and although there were more exciting events in the game, Ch.13 is probably going to stand out as the most memorable for me, because it flipped almost all of the game's mechanics around to set a specific tone, using gameplay instead of cutscenes. It's a good example of square trying something with the game that simply wouldn't have really been possible if this were FFX, XII, or XIII.

But i've definitely been more frustrated before with Final Fantasy's design decisions, to the point of actually turning the game off. Pointlessly frequent random battles in IX, pointlessly long and unskippable cutscenes before difficult bosses in FFX, anytime an area ambushes me with goddamn Bad Breath and makes me lose an hour of gameplay, ect

 

[daveo42]

Now I have to play this section of the game just to see how bad it really is. Maybe I'll get there before the patch rolls out. Still only at chapter 7, so who knows.

 

[catspit]

It wasn't that bad, just too long.

Spoiler

It's over 2 hours long, it's mostly corridors, you have all your weapons stripped away from you, combat is reduced to 1 button press to kill an enemy then you have to wait for your MP to charge.

Sounds awful.

 

[Zafir]

Reading about Chapter 13 here on GAF made me expect that it was going to be one of the worst things ever put into a video game. But I played through it a couple days ago and finished it feeling genuinely impressed. I agree that it's way too long, but I think the harsh criticism directed towards

Spoiler

the ring mechanics, the stealth, and the tonal shift

is overexaggerated.

The

Spoiler

dodge mechanic

can be easily abused to the point where stealth is completely unnecessary, so it's not like the game forces you into it. IMO the

Spoiler

horror-like

atmosphere is what I appreciated most about it, and I'm typically a pansy when it comes to

Spoiler

frequent jump scares and mind fuckery. I thought it was an interesting shift in tone.

You have to remember the game doesn't actually tell you that you can cheese the stealth sections with dodge. Instead the game tells you that you have to stealth past them. It's no surprise some might actually just stealth past them (also

Spoiler

Death

doesn't work on them because you don't have the mana for it).

Either way, the fact you have to cheese it kind of proves how poor the design is frankly. I don't see how it can impressive at all when people recommend you cheese it, lol.

Cheesed or not, I don't think it's fun.

 

[Hektor]

You have to remember the game doesn't actually tell you that you can cheese the stealth sections with dodge. Instead the game tells you that you have to stealth past them. It's no surprise some might actually just stealth past them (also

Spoiler

Death

doesn't work on them because you don't have the mana for it).

You actually can, you just gotta be high enough level for it and then it's taking like 15 seconds until they're killed by it.

 

[Zafir]

You actually can, you just gotta be high enough level for it and then it's taking like 15 seconds until they're killed by it.

Well that's what I was implying with mana as I thought it was mana issues which was causing it. Maybe levels increase the potency of the

Spoiler

ring

as well though.

Either way. I was level 64 or so which was pretty high, and it wasn't letting me kill them with

Spoiler

Death

. Maybe I was too impatient though. Having to wait 15 seconds is an awfully long time, so I wouldn't have waited that long to find out whether it works.

 

[NegativeCero]

I'm kinda torn about continuing to play as I only just got started (chapter 2) or wait and see with the patches. I definitely have plenty of other things to play in the meantime. If nothing else, I can look for videos of the original game for comparison.

 

[level1]

You have to remember the game doesn't actually tell you that you can cheese the stealth sections with dodge. Instead the game tells you that you have to stealth past them. It's no surprise some might actually just stealth past them (also

Spoiler

Death

doesn't work on them because you don't have the mana for it).

Either way, the fact you have to cheese it kind of proves how poor the design is frankly. I don't see how it can impressive at all when people recommend you cheese it, lol.

Cheesed or not, I don't think it's fun.

But it does tell you what holy and alterna do. And once you get pulled into combat, I think it stands to reason that you can make use of these spells. Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate that people may simply not like the chapter, but this right here is certainly not the problem.

 

[LordKasual]

Sounds awful.

That is literally how I would describe the chapter if i was very intentionally trying to make it sound bad. That isn't what happens.

You have to remember the game doesn't actually tell you that you can cheese the stealth sections with dodge. Instead the game tells you that you have to stealth past them. It's no surprise some might actually just stealth past them (also

Spoiler

Death

doesn't work on them because you don't have the mana for it).

Either way, the fact you have to cheese it kind of proves how poor the design is frankly. I don't see how it can impressive at all when people recommend you cheese it, lol.

Cheesed or not, I don't think it's fun.

Why would you have to stealth past them if the game literally gives you 3 unique ways to kill them and MP is a regenerating resource? I don't understand this.

Spoiler

And I refuse to believe you couldn't kill those axemen with Death because your MP bar was too short. I was effortlessly killing the Iron Giant variants with Death and I was only like level 35 or something. I may have run out of MP in the process, but again, it's not like you cant just get a little back and finish them off.

And this isn't even worth crying over because even if your MP bar was too short to Death them, Alterna takes all of your MP and never misses in Chapter 13 enemies like it does in the rest of the game. Noctis has super armor through the animation too.

Spoiler

The game literally stops and tells you how to cast Alterna. Did you guys just use it once and forget it happened?

I can understand being bored, but you people really need to stop pretending like the game breaks itself during this section. It's not "cheesing" when the game literally stops and TELLS you to do it.

 

[Xadjim]

"If I had to suffer through it, so does everyone else!"

But seriously I'm actually very interested to see what this infamous chapter is like when I get to it.

Its not even that bad. People overreact. I actually thought it was pretty cool

 

[Rpgmonkey]

It's not the worst segment of a game in general I've ever gone through, but honestly it really is the worst story segment I've ever had to deal with in a mainline Final Fantasy.

 

[Zafir]

That is literally how I would describe the chapter if i was very intentionally trying to make it sound bad. That isn't what happens.



Why would you have to stealth past them if the game literally gives you 3 unique ways to kill them and MP is a regenerating resource? I don't understand this.

Spoiler

And I refuse to believe you couldn't kill those axemen with Death because your MP bar was too short. I was effortlessly killing the Iron Giant variants with Death and I was only like level 35 or something. I may have run out of MP in the process, but again, it's not like you cant just get a little back and finish them off.

And this isn't even worth crying over because even if your MP bar was too short to Death them, Alterna takes all of your MP and never misses in Chapter 13 enemies like it does in the rest of the game. Noctis has super armor through the animation too.

Spoiler

The game literally stops and tells you how to cast Alterna. Did you guys just use it once and forget it happened?

My god do you even read anyones posts?

I literally answered both of your points in my past two posts in this thread, lol.

But it does tell you what holy and alterna do. And once you get pulled into combat, I think it stands to reason that you can make use of these spells. Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate that people may simply not like the chapter, but this right here is certainly not the problem.

It does, but why would the game then go out of it's way to tell you that you need to stealth past them? I think it stands to reason that some people may have just stealthed it because of that. The game wouldn't have said anything if it expected you do use the same spells as you did in the previous fights. I'm pretty sure they did want you to stealth it, even if you don't necessarily have to.

But I already said why it's shit even if you don't stealth it, so I think this line of discussion is moot point regardless.

 

[Mega Man's Electric Sheep]

I don't know whether I should keep playing this game, because I have already felt multiple times "I don't want to play this anymore", so hearing of this chapter 13 stuff makes me feel like even if I persevere, I'll end up quitting there.

 

[Skilletor]

That is literally how I would describe the chapter if i was very intentionally trying to make it sound bad. That isn't what happens.



Why would you have to stealth past them if the game literally gives you 3 unique ways to kill them and MP is a regenerating resource? I don't understand this.

Spoiler

And I refuse to believe you couldn't kill those axemen with Death because your MP bar was too short. I was effortlessly killing the Iron Giant variants with Death and I was only like level 35 or something. I may have run out of MP in the process, but again, it's not like you cant just get a little back and finish them off.

And this isn't even worth crying over because even if your MP bar was too short to Death them, Alterna takes all of your MP and never misses in Chapter 13 enemies like it does in the rest of the game. Noctis has super armor through the animation too.

Spoiler

The game literally stops and tells you how to cast Alterna. Did you guys just use it once and forget it happened?

Alterna didn't work all the time. It would leave axemen right in front of me. It wouldn't even suck up all the goblins and would leave me without MP, which would make me have to run around waiting for it to regenerate, which just exacerbated every issue I had with the chapter. I eventually stopped using it and just held square.

 

[YankeeDonB]

The place is not even bad if you are high enough level

Truth. In fact, the new combat tool is pretty fun to mess around with if you're over-leveled.

 

[EventHorizon]

Good art doesn’t have to make us feel good, it just has to make us feel, preferably in a way that surprises and disarms us. Even if it’s a complete accident, Chapter 13 meets those standards.

Say what now? If I'm paying for it, then it had better make me feel good. Games aren't entitled to my money. They have to earn it. If there are two games and I think I'll find one enjoyable and the other not, guess which one I'm going to be buying?

 

[goldenpp72]

People who hate this should try Dragon Quest VII, heh.

 

[Skilletor]

Truth. In fact, the new combat tool is pretty fun to mess around with if you're over-leveled.

Except being overleveled made the story bits boring, so I stopped doing hunts in favor of trying to have even a modicum of challenge in the story battles.

But, once again, the issue is not that chapter 13 was challenging, because it wasn't, it's that it was boring.

 

[LordKasual]

My god do you even read anyones posts?

I literally answered both of your points in my past two posts in this thread, lol.

I've read all of them.

You were double my level and said

Spoiler

Death

doesn't work on the axemen. It definitely does.

You said the game doesn't tell you how to get past the enemies. That is wrong twice over, because it tells you 2 ways to deal with them that don't involve stealth and the third you could find by mistake.

You are saying that doing what the game told you to do is some side-off cheesing method when it's what the game literally told you to do.

I understand the section can be boring, and that's fine, but come on. Just say you didn't like it, don't pretend like it wasn't designed right.

Alterna didn't work all the time. It would leave axemen right in front of me. It wouldn't even suck up all the goblins and would leave me without MP, which would make me have to run around waiting for it to regenerate, which just exacerbated every issue I had with the chapter. I eventually stopped using it and just held square.

Really? I just remember it always working on goblins and especially the giants, which surprised me.

 

[Zafir]

Except being overleveled made the story bits boring, so I stopped doing hunts in favor of trying to have even a modicum of challenge in the story battles.

But, once again, the issue is not that chapter 13 was challenging, because it wasn't, it's that it was boring.

Exactly.

I've read all of them.

You were double my level and said

Spoiler

Death

doesn't work on the axemen. It definitely does.

Another poster and I discussed this above, they said it took them 15 seconds for it to kill them. I'm sorry I didn't wait 15 seconds to find out that Death actually works.

You said the game doesn't tell you how to get past the enemies. That is wrong twice over, because it tells you 3 ways to deal with them that don't involve stealth.

No. I said the game says right before this section that you need to stealth past them. I explained this above in the exact post you quoted, read it.

You are saying that doing what the game told you to do is some side-off cheesing method when it's what the game literally told you to do.

No, the game tells you to stealth that section. Again, look at my explanation.

I understand the section can be boring, and that's fine, but come on. Just say you didn't like it, don't pretend like it wasn't designed right.

You're right, I don't like it.

I also think it's poorly designed.

Taste, how does that work?

Also, as an addition, many people are in agreement with it. So clearly the design of this level isn't as amazing as you seem to think it is. They wouldn't have considered patching it if it was the holy beacon of gaming design.

 

[SomTervo]

The place is not even bad if you are high enough

FTFY

 

[Geg]

It's not the worst segment of a game in general I've ever gone through, but honestly it really is the worst story segment I've ever had to deal with in a mainline Final Fantasy.

I can think of several worse from XII and XIII at least. It honestly wasn't that bad.

 

[Timeaisis]

If you are not overlevelled like crazy the death spell is only really useful on the small mobs. The bigger ones it takes forever to kill. At least that was my experience.

Did anyone else notice that the axemen bug? If you did the dodge spell thing, they sometimes drop their axe after they miss. This leads them to have no weapon, but they still attack you. However, the attack can't connect and the dodge damage spell has no effect. It happened to me like 3 or 4 times before I got the ring. I don't know how you "fix" it, but it made the chapter even more annoying, because you literally have to wait it out and hope they will start dealing damage to you again (as dodge is the only way to damage enemies at this stage), and you can't move forward because the doors are locked while in combat. Just, awful, awful game design.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

I enjoyed chapter 13. To me, chapter 9 was the most offensive in the game from a quality stand point.

Still a fantastic game and easily my game of the year.

 

[Geg]

(as dodge is the only way to damage enemies at this stage)

Nope, you can still use death and alterna on them.

 

[Mendrox]

If you are not overlevelled like crazy the death spell is only really useful on the small mobs. The bigger ones it takes forever to kill. At least that was my experience.

Did anyone else notice that the axemen bug? If you did the dodge spell thing, they sometimes drop their axe after they miss. This leads them to have no weapon, but they still attack you. However, the attack can't connect and the dodge damage spell has no effect. It happened to me like 3 or 4 times before I got the ring. I don't know how you "fix" it, but it made the chapter even more annoying, because you literally have to wait it out and hope they will start dealing damage to you again (as dodge is the only way to damage enemies at this stage), and you can't move forward because the doors are locked while in combat. Just, awful, awful game design.

Yep had the same problem which made the chapter even worse. The chapter is just boring. Long and boring. There are other chapters that would have needed the time like the train section in the ice.

But I was able to stand besides them and just regenerated MP to kill them with Alterna. MP regeneration just took a minute or more >_>

 

[Intel_89]

It wasn't that bad, just too long.

Spoiler

It's over 2 hours long, it's mostly corridors, you have all your weapons stripped away from you, combat is reduced to 1 button press to kill an enemy then you have to wait for your MP to charge.

The chapter lives up to it's name then, that sounds really terrible.

 

[Darkstorne]

It isn’t good design, not by the standards of the rest of Final Fantasy XV, but it is interesting design, remaining playable while also pushing the player toward extremes of negative emotion that are intriguing to experience in their own right. Good art doesn’t have to make us feel good, it just has to make us feel, preferably in a way that surprises and disarms us. Even if it’s a complete accident, Chapter 13 meets those standards.

Yes, but for all the wrong reasons.

 

[hamchan]

Im starting to think there's a level difference here between posters.

Spoiler

I can't remember my Holy doing too much damage, but I remember Death being very satisfying to use and Alterna basically being the wipe button.

Spoiler

I ran out of MP once and had to start hiding to regenerate, but then I realized that i still had tons of curatives and just played through the chapter like a death god.

The funny thing about Chapter 13 is that

Spoiler

some people are describing it as a stealth section, but for me the chapter slowly went from stealth to power fantasy as I got used to the ring. I thought it was a brilliant way to showcase the Ring's power, but yeah it just went on a bit too long.

I really don't think you've been reading some of the comments surrounding this game, or certainly not just comments on GAF in general in various subjects.

This place is definitely heavy on hyperbole, which is okay because this is the internets, but nonetheless. Calling Chapter 13 the worst segment in any FF game is...well, subjective. But to most people, yeah, it's absolutely hyperbole.

You can't think of any puzzle, any sidequest, any area with way too many random battles, any badly designed dungeon in any FF game that's worse than Chapter 13??? For realz??????

Well I fucking can't think of anything worse than Chapter 13 in this entire series, for fucking realz.

It's only 15 games, seriously. It's not like I'm saying it's the worst thing to ever be in a video game ever. I'm saying it's the worst thing in this mainline series. It's not like 15 is THAT many games so I really don't see how it's such a crazy statement to people.

 

[Zafir]

If you are not overlevelled like crazy the death spell is only really useful on the small mobs. The bigger ones it takes forever to kill. At least that was my experience.

Did anyone else notice that the axemen bug? If you did the dodge spell thing, they sometimes drop their axe after they miss. This leads them to have no weapon, but they still attack you. However, the attack can't connect and the dodge damage spell has no effect. It happened to me like 3 or 4 times before I got the ring. I don't know how you "fix" it, but it made the chapter even more annoying, because you literally have to wait it out and hope they will start dealing damage to you again (as dodge is the only way to damage enemies at this stage), and you can't move forward because the doors are locked while in combat. Just, awful, awful game design.

Yeah, I noticed it. There's also a lot of de-aggro issues.

Like for example the big Iron Giant thing would constantly aggro onto me when I went close to him, even though I wasn't in line of sight or anything. Also the Axemen sometimes bugged out with aggro as well.

Besides the argument of stealth. Even using the ring to get through it just isn't fun.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

I can think of several worse from XII and XIII at least. It honestly wasn't that bad.

Agree to disagree I guess. No gameplay segment in XII and XIII's main story annoyed me as much or at least took as long to be over with.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I personally didn't mind chapter 13, didn't find it too difficult and it didn't frustrate me really.

 

[LordKasual]

Exactly.

Another poster and I discussed this above, they said it took them 15 seconds for it to kill them. I'm sorry I didn't wait 15 seconds to find out that Death actually works.


No. I said the game says right before this section that you need to stealth past them. I explained this above in the exact post you quoted, read it.



No, the game tells you to stealth that section. Again, look at my explanation.


You're right, I don't like it.

I also think it's poorly designed.

Taste, how does that work?

Also, as an addition, many people are in agreement with it. So clearly the design of this level isn't as amazing as you seem to think it is. They wouldn't have considered patching it if it was the holy beacon of gaming design.

Forgive me, it just legitimately sounds like we played through 2 different versions of the same section. I don't care about people calling the section bad, I personally enjoyed it enough, but can understand why people thought it was bad.

Many of your specific complaints though just sound like you missed way too many painfully obvious cues about what you were capable of and somehow managed to complete the chapter in the most unintuitive manner possible. Which actually could be bad design on the part of the developers, which is why they're making the item stronger i suppose. I, however, was at minimum 20 levels weaker than you and I felt like I was overpowered during that section of the game.

When people say it dragged on, it was boring, the gameplay shift was jarring, yeah, that makes sense.

But you make it sound like they might as well have dumped you into the chapter without the new item, along with so many inconsistencies about how the item worked that im really getting confused.

But perhaps my perception about how efficient it was is skewed? I dont know, whatever. To each his own.


But to anyone who hasn't actually gotten there yet, no, you aren't actually unarmed, no you don't have to stealth anything.

....And yes, you are actually much stronger at this point in the game than you have been before you got there, UNLESS you were grossly overlevled and would be one-shotting the enemies with warpstrikes....but even that isn't even worth bringing up because you get another stupid strong ass weapon in the middle of the chapter.


so yeah

 

[CopperPuppy]

I keep reading shit about Chapter 13 and it's making me incredibly eager to finally get to it.

Can someone explain what's so bad about it in a non-spoilery way?

 

[hamchan]

I keep reading shit about Chapter 13 and it's making me incredibly eager to finally get to it.

Can someone explain what's so bad about it in a non-spoilery way?

It's not hard or frustrating. It's just long, boring and one of the biggest examples of a failure of both game design and storytelling in a high budget game.

 

[LordKasual]

I keep reading shit about Chapter 13 and it's making me incredibly eager to finally get to it.

Can someone explain what's so bad about it in a non-spoilery way?

You're put in a bad spot and given a gimmicky weapon in a section that overstays its welcome.

It's the kind of game design gamble that some people will like, others may be confused at, and others will scream "terrible game design" because it didn't resonate with them.

 

[Zafir]

Forgive me, it just legitimately sounds like we played through 2 different versions of the same section. I don't care about people calling the section bad, I personally enjoyed it enough, but can understand why people thought it was bad.

Many of your specific complaints though just sound like you missed way too many painfully obvious cues about what you were capable of and somehow managed to complete the chapter in the most unintuitive manner possible. Which actually could be bad design on the part of the developers, which is why they're making the item stronger i suppose. I, however, was at minimum 20 levels weaker than you and I felt like I was overpowered during that section of the game.

When people say it dragged on, it was boring, the gameplay shift was jarring, yeah, that makes sense.

But you make it sound like they might as well have dumped you into the chapter without the new item, along with so many inconsistencies about how the item worked that im really getting confused.


But perhaps my perception about how efficient it was is skewed? I dont know, whatever. To each his own.

I'm not talking about my experience per se, I did use Holy for some of it, and ran past Axemen in other cases. I didn't entirely use stealth or anything, I'm just saying I could see why someone would play through it in stealth.

I mean the Stealth is pretty un-fun, you even said it was un-intuitive yourself. It clearly was intended to be an option despite that though, bringing up tool tips pushing you into it, and having the little alcoves dotted around.

The argument that using the ring to get through it makes it more fun I think this is very much a case of opinions. I don't think using the ring to get through it is fun either.

My experience of using Death on the Axemen and Iron Giant was it just didn't work. I held the button down for about 4 or 5 seconds until they attacked me, saw it didn't seem to work, so I tried something else. Apparently YMMV on this I guess.

Using Holy to kill them takes a good number of Holy usages, I think it took me about 5 or 6 holy hits to kill the Axemen and even that spider. It's not particularly interactive to use holy because you're literally just holding dodge to kill them. It's not fun like the main combat is.

Altema costs all of your mana, so it forces you to wait for it to recharge or use Ethers.

All of these options are pretty time consuming and add to the length of the chapter.

I mean I can see why some people may find the ring fun to use, it's a new interesting gadget. It just wasn't for me, and apparently many others.

Note: I'm not sure if any magic upgrades affect the power of the ring. I didn't put any points into magic because I found the magic system to be a bit disappointing, so I dunno if that's why my ring did a lot less than some other peoples.

 

[StereoVsn]

Now I really want to see that Chapter but it will be a bit of time. I am also level 61 in Ch 9 so I wonder if that's a bit over leveled.

 

[ronin_cse]

Man people will defend anything.

Ch. 13 sucked. I have played worse sections in video games but it was by far the worst section of this game. They take away all your weapons and abilities, give you 3 boring spells, and then later give you a sword, they try to add in a crappy stealth mechanic that doesn't work unless you're extremely lucky, the dungeon honestly felt like a crappy randomly generated one with how similar everything was, and to top it off it was the longest dungeon during the story missions. IMO those saying that it wasn't bad because the ring magic makes it easy are missing the point, that is part of the reason this section was so bad.

I didn't feel alone and helpless, I felt bored and frustrated that it wasn't over yet. Thanks to the ring magic I didn't even feel challenged or worried about facing new enemies, the only emotion I felt facing enemies was impatience. Then to top it off you have Ardyn stammering on and repeating himself to make it even more annoying. Yes Ardyn I knew I was alone the first time you said it.

Oh and let's not forget that the whole reason you're alone was because Ignis and Gladious couldn't climb a freaking bus! With rubble around it!

Ch. 13 is just bad design and is probably a victim of rushed development. Yet another reminder of what could have been if the game hadn't had such a pained development cycle.

Edit: Just thought of another reason Ch. 13 upset me so much. It is the second to last dungeon (maybe the last? I dunno if Insomnia counts) and the longest and they don't even let you use all you have learned throughout the game. A gimmick like this should have happened earlier or shouldn't have lasted as long.

 

[Timeaisis]

That is literally how I would describe the chapter if i was very intentionally trying to make it sound bad. That isn't what happens.



Why would you have to stealth past them if the game literally gives you 3 unique ways to kill them and MP is a regenerating resource? I don't understand this.

Spoiler

And I refuse to believe you couldn't kill those axemen with Death because your MP bar was too short. I was effortlessly killing the Iron Giant variants with Death and I was only like level 35 or something. I may have run out of MP in the process, but again, it's not like you cant just get a little back and finish them off.

And this isn't even worth crying over because even if your MP bar was too short to Death them, Alterna takes all of your MP and never misses in Chapter 13 enemies like it does in the rest of the game. Noctis has super armor through the animation too.

Spoiler

The game literally stops and tells you how to cast Alterna. Did you guys just use it once and forget it happened?

I can understand being bored, but you people really need to stop pretending like the game breaks itself during this section. It's not "cheesing" when the game literally stops and TELLS you to do it.

I was like around 45 and it took me like a full MP bar and then some to kill the larger enemies. Also, it took a good couple minutes because your MP bar took a full 2 minutes to refill. The spider enemy right before you get to

Spoiler

fake Prompto

was especially awful and time consuming. Am I missing something here? It was a huge pain in the ass to use the death spell (and really every spell in this segment) for me. I don't see how this design is defensible.

I'm not talking about my experience per se, I did use Holy for some of it, and ran past Axemen in other cases. I didn't entirely use stealth or anything, I'm just saying I could see why someone would play through it in stealth.

I mean the Stealth is pretty un-fun, you even said it was un-intuitive yourself. It clearly was intended to be an option despite that though, bringing up tool tips pushing you into it, and having the little alcoves dotted around.

The argument that using the ring to get through it makes it more fun I think this is very much a case of opinions. I don't think using the ring to get through it is fun either.

My experience of using Death on the Axemen and Iron Giant was it just didn't work. I held the button down for about 4 or 5 seconds until they attacked me, saw it didn't seem to work, so I tried something else. Apparently YMMV on this I guess.

Using Holy to kill them takes a good number of Holy usages, I think it took me about 5 or 6 holy hits to kill the Axemen and even that spider. It's not particularly interactive to use holy because you're literally just holding dodge to kill them. It's not fun like the main combat is.

Altema costs all of your mana, so it forces you to wait for it to recharge or use Ethers.

All of these options are pretty time consuming and add to the length of the chapter.

I mean I can see why some people may find the ring fun to use, it's a new interesting gadget. It just wasn't for me, and apparently many others.

Note: I'm not sure if any magic upgrades affect the power of the ring. I didn't put any points into magic because I found the magic system to be a bit disappointing, so I dunno if that's why my ring did a lot less than some other peoples.

Yup, this about sums up my experience as well.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

i really like chapter 13, it's different

 

[BlueTsunami]

Honestly the chapter was cool at first, being disarmed like that but it went on FOREVER. Over stayed its welcome. If they cut back all the security upgrades, maybe cut the chapter time in half itd be fine.

 

[Skilletor]

I was like around 45 and it took me like a full MP bar and then some to kill the larger enemies. Also, it took a good couple minutes because your MP bar took a full 2 minutes to refill. The spider enemy right before you get to

Spoiler

fake Prompto

was especially awful and time consuming. Am I missing something here? It was a huge pain in the ass to use the death spell (and really every spell in this segment) for me. I don't see how this design is defensible.

I was a little lower than you and had the same experience.

The spider enemy wasn't even challenging since I just held square, literally just held square, to dodge and use holy.

The enemy that keeps popping up that you can't kill, also stupid, since I can hold square and dodge everything, damage it. It felt like they wanted the enemy to feel invincible, but I was literally untouchable while holding square, so it was silly. I tried killing it, but it would just disappear and come back with more life. lololol.

The "atmosphere" that people say is so good fell flat since I wasn't afraid, I didn't feel alone, and I couldn't die.

 

[oti]

Man now I'm really curious to get to this chapter.

I hope they don't change it, I'm curious now lol.

Your curiosity will die after 10 minutes.

 

[ronin_cse]

Honestly the chapter was cool at first, being disarmed like that but it went on FOREVER. Over stayed its welcome. If they cut back all the security upgrades, maybe cut the chapter time in half itd be fine.

IMO this is probably the biggest reason it sucks. Changing up the game play and such is great, but not for as long as it goes.