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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS

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matrix-cat said:
Wait, Gary Whitta wrote this? It struck me as I was watching that Donnie Yen's character had the same gimmick as Denzel had in Book of Eli, just replace God with The Force, but I didn't realise the two movies actually had the same writer. How did he get away with reusing his own idea like that?
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Iirc Chirrut (and Baze) were not in the story draft that Whitta wrote, they were added on rewrites by other writers.
 
Back-In-Black said:
Nah, screw that. I want Obi-Wan of Tatooine. A movie of just Obi-Wan hiding out on Tatooine trying to live a secluded secret life but local troubles and his Jedi Code causes him to get involved in small local dispute, likely protecting a bunch of villagers from sand people. It'd just be a movie of him traveling the desert rallying a bunch of farmers to fight off sand people or some local Hutt trying to shake them down.

He only uses his lightsaber at the very end and makes the villagers swear not to tell about it as payment after he's won and to maybe look out after the Beru farm.
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I want an Obi-Wan film too, but I'm not sure how they do it and keep the in-universe logic consistent. Ewan right now is the perfect age to play Obi-wan at the half way point between Episode 3 and the 'Ben' character we see in Episode 4. I'm guessing if he managed to stay hidden for 20 years that he ceased on any Jedi/force related activity, or word would have gotten to the Empire that a force-wielder exists on Tattooine. I find it hard to believe that Vader/the Empire wouldn't have ripped that place apart to find him.
 
dragonyeuw said:
I want an Obi-Wan film too, but I'm not sure how they do it and keep the in-universe logic consistent. Ewan right now is the perfect age to play Obi-wan at the half way point between Episode 3 and the 'Ben' character we see in Episode 4. I'm guessing if he managed to stay hidden for 20 years that he ceased on any Jedi/force related activity, or word would have gotten to the Empire that a force-wielder exists on Tattooine. I find it hard to believe that Vader/the Empire wouldn't have ripped that place apart to find him.
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That's exactly why it would have to be such a small scale movie, he couldn't be out saving the galaxy or shaking things up with the Rebel Alliance. It would have to just be him dealing with local problems on Tatooine, no lightsaber unless absolutely necessary. As someone else mentioned one of those old Samurai type movies or "The Man with No Name" trilogy. He just rolls into town, sees some trouble, solves it and then moves on with people barely remembering he was there at all.
 
Bucket Mouse said:
I like Ewan McGregor and he is obviously a great actor in other films, but his Obi Wan is overrated. Script aside, his performance style doesn't remind me of a young Alec Guinness and on top of that his Guinness impression is merely passable (it's not like it's a particularly difficult voice to impersonate either). Just because he gave one of the "better" performances in the prequels doesn't make it a good Obi Wan.



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I'm trying to follow you here. Ewan Mcgregor didn't have to give a performance of a young Alec Guinness. He had to give a performance of a young Obi-wan Kenobi, and prior to the prequels our only experience with the character was the older, retired version. Ewan's Kenobi IMHO was one of the few bright spots in the PT.
 
Back-In-Black said:
That's exactly why it would have to be such a small scale movie, he couldn't be out saving the galaxy or shaking things up with the Rebel Alliance. It would have to just be him dealing with local problems on Tatooine, no lightsaber unless absolutely necessary. As someone else mentioned one of those old Samurai type movies or "The Man with No Name" trilogy. He just rolls into town, sees some trouble, solves it and then moves on with people barely remembering he was there at all.
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So how does he set about doing this without any force/lightsaber usage? I'm not trying to shit on your idea, I'm just trying to paint a picture in my mind of how this would work. Rogue One's intent and reason to exist is pretty clear, as a direct set-up/tie-in to Episode 4. What will this be, as you're describing it, asides from the random swashbuckling adventures of Obi-wan Kenobi? What events in this movie will have consequences for the greater story?
 
dragonyeuw said:
That's precisely what I said last night to the person watching with me. Leia's CGI took me completely out of that scene. They should have just shown her from the back and then cut away. It went from 'oh shiiiit....it's LEIA!!!' to 'Oh shiiittt it's Leia......uh ok that looked a bit creepy." Leia's ANH costume is so iconic that the image of her from the back would have provided the proper nerd-gasm without showing her face.
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I thought Leia's face was fine. It's when her mouth started moving that it all went straight to uncanny valley hell. In my theater though that scene got the largest applause so apparently it didn't bother that many people at that particular screening.
 
Buddy that I went with didn't know that Tarkin or Leia were CGI, he thought both were actors so I say decent success for mainstream audiences. I only knew from spoilers otherwise I didn't think the CGI was too bad.
 
I couldn't tell Leia was CGI. I thought they just found a lookalike actress who looked a bit weird. So in that way they did fool me.
 
bill0527 said:
I thought Leia's face was fine. It's when her mouth started moving that it all went straight to uncanny valley hell. In my theater though that scene got the largest applause so apparently it didn't bother that many people at that particular screening.
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Perhaps, though still obvious CGI. As you said, when her mouth moved is when it got creepy. Even a side profile shot would have sufficed what they were going for. I just think they shot too big a load with that one.
 
blackjaw said:
Buddy that I went with didn't know that Tarkin or Leia were CGI, he thought both were actors so I say decent success for mainstream audiences. I only knew from spoilers otherwise I didn't think the CGI was too bad.
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Tarkin was done much better, that or most of his scenes were in darker environments so it wasn't as obvious. Leia was in a very bright environment which made the obvious CGI stand out much more.
 
dragonyeuw said:
So how does he set about doing this without any force/lightsaber usage? I'm not trying to shit on your idea, I'm just trying to paint a picture in my mind of how this would work. Rogue One's intent and reason to exist is pretty clear, as a direct set-up/tie-in to Episode 4. What will this be, as you're describing it, asides from the random swashbuckling adventures of Obi-wan Kenobi? What events in this movie will have consequences for the greater story?
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1. He would still use The Force, just not in overt ways. As for the lightsaber, did you see Rogue One? Chirrut got around with just a stick. Also, I'm not saying he can't use the saber he just can't whip it out constantly. When he uses it in the Mos Eisely cantina no one seemed that surprised that he had a lightsaber, so such melee weapons are not uncommon. He just has to be careful who he uses it around like Kanan in Star Wars: Rebels.

2. As far as I'm picturing the film, it wouldn't have any greater consequences to the overall story much like I'm hoping the Han Solo prequel won't either. The idea is that these are one-shot films, they don't need to have this large connection to the mainline films, they just expand the universe more and the genre of Star Wars.
 
I'm honestly shocked that people literally couldn't tell they were CGI. I mean, it was impressive tech, to be sure, certainly better than any CGI people in any movie to date, but it was never not obvious to me that they were cartoons. Like, instantly, slap-you-in-the-face-with-a-wet-fish, crystal clear that they were not real humans.

When Tarkin first showed up with his back to the camera and his face only hazily reflected in the Star Destroyer's window, I thought that was a pretty tasteful way of doing it. Obviously they couldn't get Cushing back for the role, so I thought they were just doing a little cameo scene with his face obscured (basically exactly what they did at the end of ROTS). And then he did the big dramatic turn around and bared his rubber Looney Tunes mug for all the world see and I was just wincing.
 
Oh one thing I forgot to mention in my initial reaction post: probably my favorite cinematography in the movie is when Chirrut senses the AT-AT. The way it just briefly shows up in the fog and then disappears was menacing and downright terrifying and made the danger of the AT-AT much more palpable.
 
Was it ever explained why Jyn was in prison at the start of the movie? I feel like they could've set up her intro to the rebellion a little better.
 
dragonyeuw said:
I want an Obi-Wan film too, but I'm not sure how they do it and keep the in-universe logic consistent. Ewan right now is the perfect age to play Obi-wan at the half way point between Episode 3 and the 'Ben' character we see in Episode 4. I'm guessing if he managed to stay hidden for 20 years that he ceased on any Jedi/force related activity, or word would have gotten to the Empire that a force-wielder exists on Tattooine. I find it hard to believe that Vader/the Empire wouldn't have ripped that place apart to find him.
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Well if you've seen the last episode of Rebels

They literally are doing a hunt for Obi-Wan movie on the TV show. Both Maul and Phoenix Squadron are looking for him over the ending of the last episode.
 
BronsonLee said:
Cause she's a goddamn low down no good street rat (take that!)
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It was just kind of weird. "Oh I don't have the luxury to care about the empire, just keeping my head down"... a day after spending who knows how long imprisoned at an Imperial work camp. Obviously she isn't keeping her head down very well either!

It would've made more sense if she were a street rat type character. Focusing on living life instead of politics.
 
Back-In-Black said:
1. He would still use The Force, just not in overt ways. As for the lightsaber, did you see Rogue One? Chirrut got around with just a stick. Also, I'm not saying he can't use the saber he just can't whip it out constantly. When he uses it in the Mos Eisely cantina no one seemed that surprised that he had a lightsaber, so such melee weapons are not uncommon. He just has to be careful who he uses it around like Kanan in Star Wars: Rebels.

2. As far as I'm picturing the film, it wouldn't have any greater consequences to the overall story much like I'm hoping the Han Solo prequel won't either. The idea is that these are one-shot films, they don't need to have this large connection to the mainline films, they just expand the universe more and the genre of Star Wars.
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1. In the Mos Eisely cantina, that was our first experience with a lightsaber out in public. We have no other frame of reference to know( at the time that movie came out) whether such occurrences were common, but it's clearly stated that the Jedi were extinct, and so any uses of their signature weapon in public wouldn't be treated lightly. I don't heavily watch Rebels, but with respects to Kanan he doesn't appear to be exactly in hiding, even if he's careful about his saber usage. You'd think Obi-wan would be too if he was in hiding. As the story went Obi-wan was leaving( with Luke) anyway, so the situation didn't present itself for word to get around that could lead to the Empire trying to locate him. But you have to take the events of episode 4 in the context that story was still being fleshed out. Obi-wan was wearing the same style of clothing that Owen Lars was. In the context of that film back in 77, you took it only as a style of clothing. But the Prequels clearly showed that those were actually Jedi robes. So revisiting episode 4 with that in mind, wearing Jedi robes and whipping out a Saber in a bar of scum and villain certainly doesn't facilitate hiding.

2. Personally I'm not too keen on the Han Solo story. I don't know the plot details, but I can't imagine what relevance it would have. . Rogue One was telling a story that led to the first victory for the Rebels, the effort to secure the Death Star plans in order to exploit its weakness. I'd hate for the anthology films going forward to descend into simple nerd-gasm wank-fodder but don't otherwise contribute to the big picture in some meaningful way.

Just my 2 cents....
 
dragonyeuw said:
I'm trying to follow you here. Ewan Mcgregor didn't have to give a performance of a young Alec Guinness. He had to give a performance of a young Obi-wan Kenobi, and prior to the prequels our only experience with the character was the older, retired version. Ewan's Kenobi IMHO was one of the few bright spots in the PT.
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I think what he's saying that he should have been playing the character to be more in line with how Guinness played him. Being a younger version of a well established character there is a need for Obi wan to feel consistent. Of course there is room to be slightly different and to show change to add to a character arc but on the whole McGregor plays his version of Obi wan like an entirely different character to Guinness. What I take from Ewan's a bored, catty know it all. Alec's version is wry, intriguing, he also had a lot of exposition to drop which give him a reason to be there unlike Ewan's who's there because he has to be. The scripts are to blame for a lot of it but the actor has the means to add value to the worse lines.
 
GentlemanCrow said:
I think what he's saying that he should have been playing the character to be more in line with how Guinness played him. Being a younger version of a well established character there is a need for Obi wan to feel consistent. Of course there is room to be slightly different and to show change to add to a character arc but on the whole McGregor plays his version of Obi wan like an entirely different character to Guinness. What I take from Ewan's a bored, catty know it all. Alec's version is wry, intriguing, he also had a lot of exposition to drop which give him a reason to be there unlike Ewan's who's there because he has to be. The scripts are to blame for a lot of it but the actor has the means to add value to the worse lines.
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I personally didn't get any of what you're describing with Ewan's Obi-wan, but we all see things differently so I don't think it's a point to belabour. I didn't see Ewan's portrayal as so wildly different that I can't imagine his character transitioning to Guiness's Ben Kenobi, especially with a 30 year passage of time. I would expect perhaps some personality throughline between the two characters, but we're still talking 30 years difference.Ewan's Obi-wan has a lot less experience and baggage which drove the exposition offered by Ben Kenobi. The Prequels were wrought with issues, I don't see this as being one of them in my experience with the films in question.
 
This film has put me right off Star Wars.

Was raised on it. Have always been obsessed with the brilliance of 4-6. The strange/ lazy/ pulpy/ unintentionally funny/ creative/ oddness of 1-3. But now Star Wars is just a grotesque exercise in broad crowd pleasing. It's embarrassing to watch and now the films are actually making the originals worse by inventing unnecessary and unconvincing fiction in the original films wake.
 
Epcotman said:
This film has put me right off Star Wars.

Was raised on it. Have always been obsessed with the brilliance of 4-6. The strange/ lazy/ pulpy/ unintentionally funny/ creative/ oddness of 1-3. But now Star Wars is just a grotesque exercise in broad crowd pleasing. It's embarrassing to watch and now the films are actually making the originals worse by inventing unnecessary and unconvincing fiction in the original films wake.
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Yeah man I hate when people like things that I like too
 
So... with Celebration being in April 2017 ... what are everyone's guess that we'll get 2 more Star Wars Story movie announcment? A new for Episode 8 and a teaser .. that's for sure.

1 of these spin-off movies being (hopefully) about Obi-Wan.

What are the rumors of the Rock being in an upcoming Star-Wars movie though? I saw an image passing by of him standing next to some wierd colored Vader?

Epcotman said:
This film has put me right off Star Wars.

Was raised on it. Have always been obsessed with the brilliance of 4-6. The strange/ lazy/ pulpy/ unintentionally funny/ creative/ oddness of 1-3. But now Star Wars is just a grotesque exercise in broad crowd pleasing. It's embarrassing to watch and now the films are actually making the originals worse by inventing unnecessary and unconvincing fiction in the original films wake.
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Broad crowd pleasing?

When you where a kid .. didn't you fantasize HOW the Rebels got these plans the first place? Didn't you want to see Vader wrecking Rebels (or Jedi) for that matter? Weren't you, like I was, extremely disappointed we had 3 movies that focussed on Anakin as a kid? Weren't you, like
I, extremely pissed off that Episode 3 had Vader in it for like ... 3 minutes?

Would've loved to see;
Episode 1 : Show Anakin become a Jedi. Make him do some crazy stuff. Make him fail.
Episode 2 : Show Anakin becoming a Jedi, fall in love. Do things that are forbidden. Practice the dark ways of the Force.
Episode 3 : Show Anakin eventually succumbing to the Dark Side. Have him injured pretty early one. Show how powerful Vader was.

And somewhere in "my" 3 movies ... you can have the dialogue between Sidious and Skywalker. You can have Obi-Wan be a mentor... just, drop the stupid love story.
 
Epcotman said:
This film has put me right off Star Wars.

Was raised on it. Have always been obsessed with the brilliance of 4-6. The strange/ lazy/ pulpy/ unintentionally funny/ creative/ oddness of 1-3. But now Star Wars is just a grotesque exercise in broad crowd pleasing. It's embarrassing to watch and now the films are actually making the originals worse by inventing unnecessary and unconvincing fiction in the original films wake.
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Lol see TFA was a fun movie but it didn't reignite my love for Star Wars quite like this did. I mean I've always been ingrained in Star Wars but this is getting me to read the comics and novels that are currently canon, which TFA even failed to do. Loving this Star Wars renaissance.
 
Epcotman said:
This film has put me right off Star Wars.

Was raised on it. Have always been obsessed with the brilliance of 4-6. The strange/ lazy/ pulpy/ unintentionally funny/ creative/ oddness of 1-3. But now Star Wars is just a grotesque exercise in broad crowd pleasing. It's embarrassing to watch and now the films are actually making the originals worse by inventing unnecessary and unconvincing fiction in the original films wake.
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How dare they make popular things that people enjoy. (Also calling a movie where all of the heros die crowd pleasing is very strange)
 
Back-In-Black said:
Nah, screw that. I want Obi-Wan of Tatooine. A movie of just Obi-Wan hiding out on Tatooine trying to live a secluded secret life but local troubles and his Jedi Code causes him to get involved in small local dispute, likely protecting a bunch of villagers from sand people. It'd just be a movie of him traveling the desert rallying a bunch of farmers to fight off sand people or some local Hutt trying to shake them down.

He only uses his lightsaber at the very end and makes the villagers swear not to tell about it as payment after he's won and to maybe look out after the Beru farm.
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Only if we get to see 9-year old Luke as a whiny little brat. And says, "yippee!"
 
Epcotman said:
This film has put me right off Star Wars.

Was raised on it. Have always been obsessed with the brilliance of 4-6. The strange/ lazy/ pulpy/ unintentionally funny/ creative/ oddness of 1-3. But now Star Wars is just a grotesque exercise in broad crowd pleasing. It's embarrassing to watch and now the films are actually making the originals worse by inventing unnecessary and unconvincing fiction in the original films wake.
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This is backwards.
 
Epcotman said:
This film has put me right off Star Wars.

Was raised on it. Have always been obsessed with the brilliance of 4-6. The strange/ lazy/ pulpy/ unintentionally funny/ creative/ oddness of 1-3. But now Star Wars is just a grotesque exercise in broad crowd pleasing. It's embarrassing to watch and now the films are actually making the originals worse by inventing unnecessary and unconvincing fiction in the original films wake.
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How did Rogue One exercise grotesque crowd-pleasing in a way the PT didn't? At very least, Rogue One didn't introduce any elements that contradict certain things like the PT somehow managed to achieve. I love how you romanticized,amongst your various bolded descriptive terms, 'lazy' or 'unintentionally funny'. Tell me, did you laugh at the shitty love dialogue in AOTC and the beginning of ROTS? I didn't know blatantly shit dialogue aided by wooden acting from otherwise competent actors was something to aspire to.
 
Haloid1177 said:
Lol see TFA was a fun movie but it didn't reignite my love for Star Wars quite like this did. I mean I've always been ingrained in Star Wars but this is getting me to read the comics and novels that are currently canon, which TFA even failed to do. Loving this Star Wars renaissance.
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The Force Awakens was great. Although I can see why people didn't like it. Was way too safe. But I guess it was, at the time, the only way to do it. My heart during that Han Solo vs Ben Solo scene.

Rogue One was great. Fantastic at times. Touched all the right memories I had of the OT. Seeing those AT-ACT coming in, X-Wings, Y-Wings destroying stuff in space and the Rebel Fleet all together since Return of the Jedi ... goddamn.
 
dragonyeuw said:
How did Rogue One exercise grotesque crowd-pleasing in a way the PT didn't? At very least, Rogue One didn't introduce any elements that contradict certain things like the PT somehow managed to achieve.
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A good film should be able to tell its own story while also having characters that the crowd likes, without telling the crowd why they are supposed to like them. Or even worse, writing characters that a crowd only likes because they are such obvious nods to characters that the crowd already liked.
 
I find it so weird how some folks have liked this thing that has been a cultural icon for decades and then get mad that any of that stuff is referenced, played on, embraced or built on in any way. There's no real point in rejoining the franchise if you aren't going to do that. 'Fan service', 'fan film', etc have become the new eye roll worthy talking points that GAF drives into the ground with shallow critiques along with 'pretentious' and 'bad/lazy writing'.

Like using 'nostalgia' as a dirty word is weird enough, but doing it with friggin Star Wars seems particularly misguided.

I don't know if it's an age thing or what, but some folks seem to have a real hard time understanding that that stuff is part of the draw of a franchise like this. If you can't get down with an IV link, or finally seeing a devastating Vader, I'm not sure why Star Wars is something you're watching anyway.
 
Sanctuary said:
A good film should be able to tell its own story while also having characters that the crowd likes, without telling the crowd why they are supposed to like them. Or even worse, writing characters that a crowd only likes because they are such obvious nods to characters that the crowd already liked.
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Forgive me if I'm not picking up which movie you're referring to, Rogue One or the PT films?
 
Bucket Mouse said:
Script aside, his performance style doesn't remind me of a young Alec Guinness and on top of that his Guinness impression is merely passable (it's not like it's a particularly difficult voice to impersonate either).
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Considering he was going to spend way more on-screen time with the role than Guinness, it's probably wise he did his own thing rather than impersonation.
matrix-cat said:
Wait, Gary Whitta wrote this? I thought Donnie Yen basically being Denzel's character from Book of Eli but with The Force instead of God was just coincidence; I didn't know the same dude wrote both movies. How did he get away with reusing his own idea like that?
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Ha, funny you look at it that way. I was thinking "It's a good thing Disney owns Marvel, too, so they can't get upset about Daredevil being in the movie."
GentlemanCrow said:
I think what he's saying that he should have been playing the character to be more in line with how Guinness played him. Being a younger version of a well established character there is a need for Obi wan to feel consistent. Of course there is room to be slightly different and to show change to add to a character arc but on the whole McGregor plays his version of Obi wan like an entirely different character to Guinness. What I take from Ewan's a bored, catty know it all. Alec's version is wry, intriguing, he also had a lot of exposition to drop which give him a reason to be there unlike Ewan's who's there because he has to be. The scripts are to blame for a lot of it but the actor has the means to add value to the worse lines.
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Frank Oz's "Jedi Council Yoda" is pretty different from Frank Oz's "Crazy Hermit Yoda" too.
Waldini said:
So... with Celebration being in April 2017 ... what are everyone's guess that we'll get 2 more Star Wars Story movie announcment? A new for Episode 8 and a teaser .. that's for sure.
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One announcement would tell us what they have planned for 2020, past that seems getting pretty far ahead.
 
Vyer said:
I find it so weird how some folks have liked this thing that has been a cultural icon for decades and then get mad that any of that stuff is referenced, played on, embraced or built on in any way. There's no real point in rejoining the franchise if you aren't going to do that. 'Fan service', 'fan film', etc have become the new eye roll worthy talking points that GAF drives into the ground with shallow critiques along with 'pretentious' and 'bad/lazy writing'.

Like using 'nostalgia' as a dirty word is weird enough, but doing it with friggin Star Wars seems particularly misguided.

I don't know if it's an age thing or what, but some folks seem to have a real hard time understanding that that stuff is part of the draw of a franchise like this. If you can't get down with an IV link, or finally seeing a devastating Vader, I'm not sure why Star Wars is something you're watching anyway.
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This. Just ... this.

I grew up watching A New Hope. Empire followed ... then Return of the Jedi. I must've seen each of them a dozen times. Just ... so good.
Saw all the PT films in the cinema when they were released. Multiple times too. But, in the end ... I was amazed at the creatures, CGI. Not the story, or the origin of Vader. Would've loved to see them going Dark Side Anakin in Episode 2 ... but that wasn't ment to be.

Still, nothing managed to capture that feeling I had with the OT. The PT was fine, but always felt off. The love story just didn't work and the lack of a decent actor portraying Anakin always pissed me off to some extent. Especially when word came out that Leonardo DiCaprio could've been playing Anakin. That being said, there's alot of scenes and piece's of the PT I do enjoy. They are not bad ... but felt out of place when comparing them with the OT, despite the time "gap".

When TFA was released ... goddamn, still makes me happy. It hit all the right things for me. Showed the "old" meeting the "new". Rogue One did the same. Showing the way they stole the plans, showing Vader being menacing as fuck, expanding on an OT (A New Hope) film was everything I wanted. Hell, it made ANH a better movie for me. Now you know why Vader is so pissed at Leia ... and now you also know what sacrifices it took to get those plans.
 
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