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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS

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Guy.brush said:
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Interesting. It looks like the concept on the far right was repurposed for the TCW as the Kage Warrior leader in season 4.

latest
 
Jito said:
Just think you could pick another film, something within the same league to compare it too and I'd take your point seriously. Like another blockbuster popcorn film.
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No, my point is that you can take a perfect movie (such as CoM) and still not be able to name a character. Which means that "remembering a character's name" as a barometer of great characterization is a fallacy.

Not sure why you keep on failing to understand that I chose an extreme example on purpose to illustrate a point. Frankly, I think you just want to be obstinate.
 
Tookay said:
No, my point is that you can take a perfect movie (such as CoM) and still not be able to name a character. Which means that"remembering a character's name" as a barometer of great characterization is a fallacy.

Not sure why you keep on failing to understand that I chose an extreme example in purpose to illustrate a point. Frankly, I think you just want to be obstinate.
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Here seeing as you apparently missed it.

Jito said:
No it's not about the quality of the films at all, it's just Star Wars is a movie designed to be sold to fans and kids, through the movie itself and toys and shit. I'm finding it hard to believe any of these characters are going to be appealing to kids in the movie or as toys on a shelf. I don't see Children of Men as a reasonable comparison as the characters names are irrelevant. Something like existing Star Wars films or Marvel films are a good comparison, they really hammer home these characters, their personalities and their names throughout the movies to make sure you know who they are!
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Oh and I never used the fact I don't know there names as a measure of the quality of their characters, like to see you quote that? The characters were poor regardless of the fact I couldn't tell you there names.

And haha that's sweet thinking your pathetic attempt at making a point would change my opinion. Could you say you were really trying though?
 
dragonyeuw said:
The guy that Vader choked out, the 'your sad devotion to that ancient religion' dude? Nothing to say he's forgotten what the Jedi looked like either, even if he's mocking them. There's evidence that people know about the Jedi. There's nothing expressly showing people who are ignorant of their one-time existence.
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And yet he didn't care enough to concern himself with power that the Jedi/Sith were capable of, otherwise he'd have known not to push that issue with the scary robot man.

You see the circle we're forming here, yeah?
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Clearly.

To be clear though, I do think that having that be the jedi's outfit was silly in part because it does need a lot of in universe rationalization, though I also do believe that enough of that does exist to where it's not that big of a deal. Having the Jedi's attire be similar to what Luke wore in RotJ as was originally intended would have been the much better option for sure.
 
Back-In-Black said:
We all do but that doesn't mean we can't try to repair the damage, the robes must be explained within the universe's logic or part of the OT break down. The robes aren't even the worse thing, C3P0 and R2-D2 are even worse. Anakin fucking built Creepio and R2 was his best droid bud and yet he doesn't recognize them in the OT. C'mon now. Leia has memories of her mother she never met, Obi-Wan gives Luke the lightsaber Anakin killed tons of children with, "He didn't hold towards your father's ideals, thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved" (Owen barely knew and met Anakin), etc
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The ending makes no sense to me. I guess it's a surprise until you realize it's just some hidden plot armor for that Rebel command ship to survive.

Dumb fan fictiony way I'd end the movie:

Krennic is a Rebel spy all along. His personal guard are a group of crack shot defectors. Tarkin isn't in the movie. Krennic orders the Death Star to fire on Scarif to cover some up loose ends. Jyn and her entire team are a diversion.

Vader is more or less Hans Landa from Inglourious Basterds, least as a cold character who methodically investigates things and is one step behind Krennic but catches wind that SOMEONE is conspiring with the Rebel Alliance.

The dish on Scarif is receive only but the Rebels aren't told that. Somehow make it a little more plausible that a secure installation for archiving key Imperial military blueprints a little more secure outside of a planetary shield and open vault ceiling (and kind of explain that there are multiple installations for archiving so the second Death Star could be built and its design flaws fixed).

The planet has a planetary shield but Krennic's shuttle either has a cloaking device and/or uses Han Solo's FTL trick from The Force Awakens to simply make a jump to hyperspace in atmosphere to get past the shield after the base is on lockdown.

Hell ... even a risky stretch: Maybe Vader allows for the oversight so he could get the Emperor on the Death Star but ends up getting Tarkin sent instead. Vader gets pressured to cover his tracks when things don't work out and he pursues the plans personally, kills Krennic, and follows the transmission to the point of interception.

At the very least, Leia's ship should have been floating out in deep space or on a diplomatic mission but had its antenna trained on Scarif. Plans are received, someone is told to give the plans to Leia, alarm is heard ... "to be continued" ... in a New Hope.
 
Like 90% of your guys complaints can be hitched to one sentence

Lucas didn't think that far ahead

The rest can go to:

The Force is a bullshit plot device
 
Nairume said:
And yet he didn't care enough to concern himself with power that the Jedi/Sith were capable of, otherwise he'd have known not to push that issue with the scary robot man.
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This is something that always slightly bothered me well before the prequels arrived. After their arrival however, it makes his comment even more egregious. It's not like most average people in the galaxy would have just had a Jedi mind-wipe done to them within the 18 - 20 years that happened between Episodes III & IV, and those actively working in the Empire should have been educated in its history; a very short history at that.

Back-In-Black said:
The robes aren't even the worse thing, C3P0 and R2-D2 are even worse. Anakin fucking built Creepio and R2 was his best droid bud and yet he doesn't recognize them in the OT. C'mon now. Leia has memories of her mother she never met, Obi-Wan gives Luke the lightsaber Anakin killed tons of children with, "He didn't hold towards your father's ideals, thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved" (Owen barely knew and met Anakin), etc
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Yep, after seeing The Phantom Menace for the first time, all I could think was "What the fuck? How is this even possible?". Hell, even Obi-Wan acts like he doesn't recognize them either, unless he's just being coy the entire time (hint: he wasn't).
 
Tookay said:
The "I didn't remember the main characters' names so the characters were shitty/the story sucks" argument is so dumb.

I don't remember any character names from Children of Men but that movie is great.

Multiple characters had arcs in Rogue One. They may not have announced their shifts through dialogue but they did change their demeanor throughout the film.
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I don't think anyone is equating not remembering names equals movie sucks. But I am saying that it was probably easy to not remember names for characters you didn't care for.
 
Nairume said:
And yet he didn't care enough to concern himself with power that the Jedi/Sith were capable of, otherwise he'd have known not to push that issue with the scary robot man.


Clearly.

To be clear though, I do think that having that be the jedi's outfit was silly in part because it does need a lot of in universe rationalization, though I also do believe that enough of that does exist to where it's not that big of a deal. Having the Jedi's attire be similar to what Luke wore in RotJ as was originally intended would have been the much better option for sure.
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That doesn't have any relevance to whether he was aware of their presence or what they look like, however. Ignorant of their skills, clearly, and he paid the price for that ignorance. Like anything else, opinions and knowledge of the Jedi isn't set in stone. Han didn't believe in the force, ignorant imperial officer mocked them, Tarkin I'm sure respected them considering the CEO was one of the most powerful Sith ever, and the guy right beneath him ain't too shabby either.

Agreed on your second paragraph....
 
dragonyeuw said:
*snip*

The droid at the beginning of TPM seemed to know that Qui-Gon and Obi-wan were Jedi, 'the ambassadors are Jedi Knights I believe'. Based on what? They hadn't displayed any Jedi signatures (saber, force ability) to that point. So what led the droid to make that conclusion? Their dress, perhaps? Little Ani seemed to know once he saw Qui-gon's 'laser sword'. What life experience would an 8 year old slave have to know about such things?

You see the circle we're forming here, yeah?
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Of course.

BronsonLee said:
Like 90% of your guys complaints can be hitched to one sentence

Lucas didn't think that far ahead

The rest can go to:

The Force is a bullshit plot device
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This is the truth. Now, the reason we got on this diatribe was you couldn't understand how a solo Obi-Wan movie in the intermediate years worked without logic breaking, but as we've seen the logic is far past breaking. We can easily stretch the universe's logic to account for some Obi-Wan adventures on Tatooine.
 
I guess the other thing that makes this moot is that the canon comics have now established on a few occasions that Obi Wan slipped up and was recognized as a jedi, but then was able to walk it back by having him just get really good at throwing off the people that went after him (which then does dovetail into him being somewhat of an urban legend by the time of ANH).
 
Back-In-Black said:
We all do but that doesn't mean we can't try to repair the damage, the robes must be explained within the universe's logic or part of the OT break down. The robes aren't even the worse thing, C3P0 and R2-D2 are even worse. Anakin fucking built Creepio and R2 was his best droid bud and yet he doesn't recognize them in the OT. C'mon now. Leia has memories of her mother she never met, Obi-Wan gives Luke the lightsaber Anakin killed tons of children with, "He didn't hold towards your father's ideals, thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved" (Owen barely knew and met Anakin), etc
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I just googled around and came across this theory I quite like:

It's also been speculated that in ESB when Chewie tries to forcibly free Han and Boba Fett draws his gun, Vader stops him because he's concerned that he might accidentally shoot C-3P0.
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:O He did remember!
 
What was even the reason for Anakin building c3po?
When he wanted to show, that he was a special kid, why not just let him build anything?
 
Ragnorok64 said:
When did R2 and C-3P0 ever say thier names around Vader?
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I feel like in the OT, Vader never actually sees R2 or 3P0.

He shoots R2 at the end of A New Hope.

3PO is on Chewie's back when Han gets frozen in Empire.

Vader is never in the same scene as R2 or 3P0 in Jedi.


Best case scenario, he knows it's 3P0 in Empire, but he has zero interaction with R2 besides shooting him (I genuinely wonder how that would make him feel if he knew).
 
Aren't the droid types not uncommon like R2s are a dime a dozen and there is multiple types of 3po, i'm making excuses for dumb story decisions but could that be why he doesn't acknowledge them
 
I saw some post online about someone wanting a sequel to R1 and of course the obvious reply of "Episode 4."
That got kind of a funny idea in my head to watch ANH literally as if it were a sequel to R1. So immediately after my second viewing of R1, I went home and watched it in that state of mind, as if R1 was the main entry and ANH was the sequel.

It was kind of funny. The whole beginning of the movie felt sort of awkward. I was feeling like, "Why have we spent half an hour watching a farmer whine? He's got the fucking death star plans, shit is urgent." Everyones taking their sweet time getting around and I'm sitting their getting anxious.

At the end of the movie it felt a little sad watching Luke & co get all the credit with fresh images of dead people in my mind who made most of this happen.
 
Saw it earlier today. This was probably one of the better Star Wars movies, much better than Force Awakens. I would say the only thing I didn't really like about it was that the final battle. It showed way too much action, and it lengthened the movie longer than it needed to be. I will say that the beginning was a bit hard to follow though.
 
SillyNonsense said:
At the end of the movie it felt a little sad watching Luke & co get all the credit with fresh images of dead people in my mind who made most of this happen.
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Yeah, that was obviously much sadder than an entire planet's population being obliterated earlier in the same movie, or all of the other pilots that died during the trench run.
Luke's small group didn't get all of the credit either, although the olympic gold he ended up with was a bit silly. How is this any different from any other military ceremony though? It's not like they were going to drag the ending out by showing all of the empty caskets of everyone else.
 
SillyNonsense said:
It was kind of funny. The whole beginning of the movie felt sort of awkward. I was feeling like, "Why have we spent half an hour watching a farmer whine? He's got the fucking death star plans, shit is urgent." Everyones taking their sweet time getting around and I'm sitting their getting anxious.

At the end of the movie it felt a little sad watching Luke & co get all the credit with fresh images of dead people in my mind who made most of this happen.
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Interesting POV.... I think that's partly why I feel it was a story worth telling.
 
Regarding the robes, Jedis wear the simplest attire in the galaxy, often associated with farmers or poor people as a sign of humility.

I also read that it kinda highlights the Jedi hypocrisy as they always wear a clean and expensive version of the look.

Yes this is a BS explanation of what we see in Ep 6,the prequels and TFA.

But it kinda works for an Obi Wan movie.
 
I thought Hamill said his black look in ROTJ was the real Jedi wardrobe.

I hope going forward they dump the desert Jedi look, I know Luke was still wearing it in Force Awakens unfortunately. Jedi shouldn't have a dress code unless they are at school.
 
Fj0823 said:
Regarding the robes, Jedis wear the simplest attire in the galaxy, often associated with farmers or poor people as a sign of humility.

I also read that it kinda highlights the Jedi hypocrisy as they always wear a clean and expensive version of the look.

Yes this is a BS explanation of what we see in Ep 6,the prequels and TFA.

But it kinda works.
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I prefer the theory that George Lucas sucks and forgot why Obi Wan was dressed the way he was in ANH when he was approving Jedi designs for the prequels.
 
Starkiller Base really renders their sacrifice meaningless. I mean a whole fucking system wiped out by the same basic concept.

God that was such a shitty idea. TFA was such a cowardly movie, just take concepts from the original trilogy and turn them up to 11.
 
Sanctuary said:
Yeah, that was obviously much sadder than an entire planet's population being obliterated earlier in the same movie, or all of the other pilots that died during the trench run.
Luke's small group didn't get all of the credit either, although the olympic gold he ended up with was a bit silly. How is this any different from any other military ceremony though? It's not like they were going to drag the ending out by showing all of the empty caskets of everyone else.
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i think that, the rebels just used han and luke as symbols to boost their movement, thats why on empire strikes back they are so up on rank, not that they didnt care for the Rogue 1 team
 
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