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[Starwolf_UK]

While not smart and now too late to do anything I wonder if releasing the hack for 5 minutes on the 21st and then taking down the link could have been a method to both release the game and still comply with resolution 1. How far would they be willing to go to disprove an argument of "I released it then read your letter and complied with it".

Does the patch file contain copyrighted work from other Pokemon games?

How loose do we get. Pokemon cries of Pokemon release gen II, moves and types as well. How about by ear copies of music from other Pokemon games.

But if it does or doesn't isn't really relevant the legal route they are going down is trademark violation (uses the names and characters for starters) rather than DMCA takedown notices which the others were (here there is nothing to take down) and which they also threatened?

 

[Toxi]

But hey what do I know I'm just some shithead idiot working on a Half life 2 mod. Valve really should protect their ip more huh.

Valve confirmed doomed for allowing people to mod their games.

 

[brad-t]

That's completely fucking irrelevant. You own a game, you can fucking make mods for it. A mod for a console or handheld game is no different from a mod for a PC game. How hard is to understand this shit?
Next you're going to tell me that Skyrim Remastered mods are not really mods because they're on console? Some solid goddamn logic you have there.

Jeez, I wonder how you react to things that are actually important.

 

[mrlion]

I mean if these dude keep announcing their stuff on twitter or facebook obviously Nintendo is going to find out. ROM hacks are not announced to the public that is why "They'd never shut down a ROM Hack" lol because they don't know they existed in the first place.

 

[MUnited83]

You keep fixating on the "it's a mod" angle and keep ignoring the "Nintendo holds legal rights to protect theit intelectual property" angle.

It's not even unheard of that companies drop the hammer on mods anyway, just google "Bethesda" and "cease & desist".

An asshole move? Totally. Still within their legal right tho, how hard is this to get?

For one, no one gives a fucking shit whether is their goddamn legal right or not (it really isn't), so coming here justifying and defending their bullshit over "hey guise it's totally legal hurr durr" is pretty goddamn useless. It's like people popping out on threads about companies being shitty and terrible when suddenly a apologist comes out and says "hey guises its totally legal stop complaining already"
Not a single goddamn person in this thread talked about calling the cops on Nintendo or taking them into court, so why the hell you think it's relevant to bring out that crappy argument?

 

[Toxi]

An asshole move? Totally.

Funny, half the people in this thread seem to disagree for God knows what reason.

 

[PSqueak]

I love people defending this shit like there aren't a billion examples of all the good things fangames and mods have given us including some of the most popular games played to this day.

FFS Sonic is getting a release people actually want for the first time in like a decade made by guys who have been making Sonic fangames for a long time.

But hey what do I know I'm just some shithead idiot working on a Half life 2 mod. Valve really should protect their ip more huh.

Hey, them choosing not to send C&Ds makes Valve awesome, Nintendo choosing to send C&Ds makes them bullies and assholes.

But still, doesn't mean They don't have the legal right to. Valve could totally get away with sending C&Ds, they choose not to.

 

[Zyrox]

Unfortunate situation, but I feel like these fangame devs should stop shouting the fact that they are developing a game/mod/whatever using someone else's IP without their permission from every rooftop.
Just work on it in silent and have the big blowout when it's ready, or better yet, develop your own IP that's inspired by the thing you love like Stardew Valley.

As a sidenote, Prism is a rather unfortunate name, given that the Pokémon that will likely be on the next mainline Pokémon cover is exactly that, the Prism Pokémon. Heck, they might even plan to call that game Pokemon Prism.

 

[ScientificPizza]

The fucking roof is that it's a mod. The thing you said it wasn't and that it was totally not like a mod at all!

(except for the fact that you are completely wrong)

And you didn't say you doubted people were dumping their own roms, you said in your very definition of what a rom hack that it inherently implies piracy. Read what you said.

bruh. how do you put people on ignore on mobile. this has got to be the dumbest motherfucker i've ever interacted with

highly doubt anyone is dumping ROMs of the games that they have purchased to play a ROM hack like this. These kind of hacks incentivise people to seek out illegal copies of Nintendo games.

🤔🤔🤔

nobody is saying a rom hack isn't a mod, when i differentiated between a mod and a rom hack i meant the way we think of pc mods vs rom hacks. but please continue to be painfully pedantic it's a wonderful use of everyone's time

 

[SomeRandomWeirdGuy]

Remember guys, legality equals morality. Any time the law is fucking stupid and someone gets boned because of it, you just gotta suck it up because laws are always great.

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

I wonder how much this might have to do with the new third legendary literally being a prism.

 

[Professor Beef]

How far would they be willing to go to disprove an argument of "I released it then read your letter and complied with it".

They were already playing with fire by advertising this the way they did, but what you're suggesting would basically be soaking them in kerosene.

 

[Timeless]

Hey, them choosing not to send C&Ds makes Valve awesome, Nintendo choosing to send C&Ds makes them bullies and assholes.

But still, doesn't mean They don't have the legal right to. Valve could totally get away with sending C&Ds, they choose not to.

This is actually an open question. Especially if you avoid using trademarks and copyrighted characters that weren't in the original game (a precaution this mod did not take), do you really think a court would find it illegal and not fair use?

It's the same thing as buying a copy of The Great Gatsby and using some scissors to change up the order of the words, then selling it. Which is 100% legal in the US thanks to the first sale doctrine.

These modders aren't even selling their games.

 

[asagami_]

So, the main culprit was show this in Twitch/Youtube? lol

 

[realcZk]

Maybe Nintendo could add a section to their Content Creator's Program to allow them to take a cut of the modder's hard work and charge for the download?

 

[PSqueak]

For one, no one gives a fucking shit whether is their goddamn legal right or not (it really isn't), so coming here justifying and defending their bullshit over "hey guise it's totally legal hurr durr" is pretty goddamn useless. It's like people popping out on threads about companies being shitty and terrible when suddenly a apologist comes out and says "hey guises its totally legal stop complaining already"
Not a single goddamn person in this thread talked about calling the cops on Nintendo or taking them into court, so why the hell you think it's relevant to bring out that crappy argument?

Because no one is fucking (as you love to hurl the word around) defending the C&D, people are just pointing the obvious that nintendo would do it because they can.

But people like you are exploding in anger "buh, why are people defending this huuurr duuuuurrr!", no one is defending this, and no one is liking it, if someone is i im not seeing them.

The fact is, this was expected, it sucks, but it was fucking expected.

 

[collige]

You keep fixating on the "it's a mod" angle and keep ignoring the "Nintendo holds legal rights to protect theit intelectual property" angle.

It's not even unheard of that companies drop the hammer on mods anyway, just google "Bethesda" and "cease & desist".

An asshole move? Totally. Still within their legal right tho, how hard is this to get?

Which mods did Bethesda C&D?

 

[jackal27]

Really bummed about this... I was looking forward to trying this out since I didn't really dig Pokemon Sun and Moon. :/

 

[MUnited83]

bruh. how do you put people on ignore on mobile. this has got to be the dumbest motherfucker i've ever interacted with


������

nobody is saying a rom hack isn't a mod, when i differentiated between a mod and a rom hack i meant the way we think of pc mods vs rom hacks. but please continue to be painfully pedantic it's a wonderful use of everyone's time

Guy who said "it's totally not a mod" then called it a "modification" calls another person "dumbest"
Guy who literally said "rom hacks are something you apply to pirate copies" is calling another person "dumbest"

Some goddamn solid arguing skills you got there son.


Fucking love how you tried to argue again and again how they are totally not mods, but people proving you wrong is "pedantic" and a "waste of time".


Again, solid arguing skills. I shall now discuss with people and everytime they prove me wrong i'll just shout "stop being pedantic, what i said was to be completely ignored and unchallenged" and win the argument.

 

[Atilac]

Any hope of this finding its way to a torrent site?

 

[FataIChoice]

If the Twitch Plays Pokémon guys must have a copy of the .ips, they can probably leak it.

 

[RRockman]

Wow, that sucks. The Mother 4 team should immediately announce that they are stopping production on their game.

Spoiler

Then silently have someone leak the completed game on the internet on Mother's anniversary.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

There's nothing about being a fan that allows you to use a trademark without permission. If I were to make a fan movie called Star Destroyer 17: A Star Wars Story and put up a trailer on YouTube, you better believe Disney would come knocking.

This was said in the AM2R thread, and I can't believe I'm forced to point it out again.

Citing Disney, the complete terrorist shitbags of copyright, to defend Nintendo is not a compelling argument in the least.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Hey, them choosing not to send C&Ds makes Valve awesome, Nintendo choosing to send C&Ds makes them bullies and assholes.

But still, doesn't mean They don't have the legal right to. Valve could totally get away with sending C&Ds, they choose not to.

Sure. The problem is there are people acting like this is something they "need" to do which is 100% objectively bullshit and imo a display of willful ignorance.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

Fuck Nintendo

#FuckNintendo

 

[TemplaerDude]

If you're going to do this, release it when you announce it. This is what happens when you don't.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Damn, Nintendo ain't shit. Letting y'all know right now I don't give a fuck if you made mods or hacks of my games as long as they're not up for sale.

 

[DooMAGE]

the fanboys

What a poor argument. lmao
So is not everyone.

Using the term fanboy like that this add much to the discussion.

Its like someone trying to invalidate your thread because you are a GTA fanboy that dont even play Pokémon and yet started this thread Just to add another Nintendo hate discussion bandwagon.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

Of course, the logic doesn't really make sense. If any fangame/fan-product is likely to be doing them harm right now, it's Pokemon Showdown, due to losing sales from people only interested in playing the games competitively and giving them an option to do that that doesn't involve actually buying any of the actual products whatsoever. But for whatever reason, Nintendo, TPCi, and Game Freak seem to have been alright with stuff like that, Shoddy battle, and NetBattle over the years and if those apparently aren't actually hurting their bottom line or whatever based on their inaction despite directly allowing players to very easily play Pokemon battles with other people online, with actual assets from the game and all, it makes any arguments against this game rather tenuous regardless of how ambitious it might be.

Though if they have indeed decided to come for stuff like this I wonder if it's only a matter of time until they turn their sights to battle simulators like Showdown after all...

As a former avid Showdown player, this came to my mind first as well. It is probably only a matter of time until they also at least send a c/d to Zarel if not outright sue him.

 

[doop_]

I wonder how much this might have to do with the new third legendary literally being a prism.

Yeah, Stars could be called Prism eventually to be honest.

 

[ScientificPizza]

Guy who said "it's totally not a mod" then called it a "modification" calls another person "dumbest"
Guy who literally said "rom hacks are something you apply to pirate copies" is calling another person "dumbest"

Some goddamn solid arguing skills you got there son.


Fucking love how you tried to argue again and again how they are totally not mods, but people proving you wrong is "pedantic" and a "waste of time".


Again, solid arguing skills. I shall now discuss with people and everytime they prove me wrong i'll just shout "stop being pedantic, what i said was to be completely ignored and unchallenged" and win the argument.

please ignore in the post that you quoted what i meant by mods vs rom hacks.

 

[DecoReturns]

I recall Mother 4 being a original game just inspire by The Mother series. They'll just change the name and whatnot.

Unless I'm mistaken

 

[Fluxdyne]

No, because a PC game is open by it's very nature. Please direct me to the root directory on a gameboy colour and we can talk.

We can't show you the root directory of a GB rom because there's no such thing. Other plataforms do have a standard directory structure (DS, 3DS, PS1, PS2, PS3...).

 

[Gestault]

It's nothing more than a goddamn mod. They wouldn't be in the right, and they wouldn't win the case unless you are in a country with pretty terrible IP laws that just let IP owners walk all over other people and make up their own shitty laws.

Unless you know and can communicate something specific about modified software being omitted from copyright enforcement, you're mistaken about the legality of it. The IP is being used in the resulting romhack, even ignoring possible technicalities like the mod itself not including source code or assets and just being computer instructions. This is a cease-and-decist for distribution, and you insisted before that it wasn't legitimate.

I'm no lawyer, but classes on copyright law were part of my coursework, which is why I'm not taking your point at face value. Which is no comment on how wrong it feels when a company does something like this, but Nintendo is in their rights to do it.

Edit: And just to clarify, IP holders are often totally in the wrong when they enforce along similar lines, but this is a case of the final software using the Pokemon IP.

 

[TheJoRu]

Since when do Nintendo have some moral obligation to let people do whatever they want with their properties?

We should lift up and encourage those who do let people do fan projects despite infringing on copyrights, not chastise those who don't. I think it's a shame these projects are not allowed, but what is it that is so absurdly upsetting as to spawn usage of words like "disgusting" and stuff like "#FuckNintendo"? Is your respect for copyright so deep down in the gutter that there can't exist reasonable reactions to these kinds of news?

 

[Slayven]

Never understood why people just don't do their own thing inspired by the originals.

 

[JazzmanZ]

I'm not surprised.

It seems if your Nintendo fangame gets attention from news sites, the lawyers will know.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Always funny seeing just how much utter contempt Nintendo hold for their fans.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Over something like this? Hell no. They do what they have to do.

Prove it. Prove to me that they need to legally shut down what essentially amounts to a mod.

Because if you can prove that, then all of the fanart on the internet should be dumped, all fan fiction should deleted, all fan videos removed and anyone using an IP not of their ownership for anavatar should change it.

 

[Lynd7]

There aren't many 8bit Pokémon hacks, especially not at this level. I was really looking forward to a new entry with the classic look.. Please leak it in 6 months or something..

It's unfair, cause there's tons of sites and hacks of these games out there. They can't make an exception on this one hack, doesn't make sense.

 

[PSqueak]

Which mods did Bethesda C&D?

Whoops, you're right it wasn't a mod, it was a doom fan game (DoomRL).

My bad. But still it's the same legal principle.

 

[MUnited83]

please ignore in the post that you quoted what i meant by mods vs rom hacks.

Then give a actual explanation on how they are actually any different. You have yet to do that.

Since when do Nintendo have some moral obligation to let people do whatever they want with their properties?

We should lift up and encourage those who do let people do fan projects despite infringing on copyrights, not chastise those who don't. I think it's a shame these projects are not allowed, but what is it that is so absurdly upsetting as to spawn usage of words like "disgusting" and stuff like "#FuckNintendo"? Is your respect for copyright so deep down in the gutter that there can't exist reasonable reactions to these kinds of news?

I hope the photo used on your avatar has been taken by you, wouldn't like for you to be infringing copyright.
Take down tumblr and deviantart too, I heard there's a lot of Nintendo fan art there.

 

[realcZk]

Here is a link to the legal notice the author received from an Australian law firm on behalf of Nintendo: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0f-_m_8on7BLVhuYnV2a2tuR3M/view

 

[docbon]

But if it does or doesn't isn't really relevant the legal route they are going down is trademark violation (uses the names and characters for starters) rather than DMCA takedown notices which the others were (here there is nothing to take down) and which they also threatened?

Ah, okay. I didn't read the actual letter so I assumed it was the latter.

 

[Professor Beef]

Prove it. Prove to me that they need to legally shut down what essentially amounts to a mod.

Because if you can prove that, then all of the fanart on the internet should be dumped, all fan fiction should deleted, all fan videos removed and anyone using an IP not of their ownership for anavatar should change it.

The "all or nothing" argument is a real gem.

There aren't many 8bit Pokémon hacks, especially not at this level. I was really looking forward to a new entry with the classic look.. Please leak it in 6 months or something..

It's unfair, cause there's tons of sites and hacks of these games out there. They can't make an exception on this one hack, doesn't make sense.

Nintendo probably doesn't know about them. Meanwhile, this specific one was being advertised on Youtube and Twitch. Of *course* they're going to do something about it. The team working on this was playing with fire, and they got burned.

 

[asagami_]

There aren't many 8bit Pokémon hacks, especially not at this level. I was really looking forward to a new entry with the classic look.. Please leak it in 6 months or something..

It's unfair, cause there's tons of sites and hacks of these games out there. They can't make an exception on this one hack, doesn't make sense.

It was popular, have social media presence and was streamed in a Twitch that receive money. I mean, this was not a random choice.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The "all or nothing" argument is a real gem.

Thanks for the legal advice. Exactly what I expected.

Since when do Nintendo have some moral obligation to let people do whatever they want with their properties?

We should lift up and encourage those who do let people do fan projects despite infringing on copyrights, not chastise those who don't. I think it's a shame these projects are not allowed, but what is it that is so absurdly upsetting as to spawn usage of words like "disgusting" and stuff like "#FuckNintendo"? Is your respect for copyright so deep down in the gutter that there can't exist reasonable reactions to these kinds of news?

Yes, my respect for modern copyright laws, which has been bent and perverted by abusive meddlers like Disney and Nintendo is completely in the goddamn gutter.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Since when do Nintendo have some moral obligation to let people do whatever they want with their properties?

We should lift up and encourage those who do let people do fan projects despite infringing on copyrights, not chastise those who don't. I think it's a shame these projects are not allowed, but what is it that is so absurdly upsetting as to spawn usage of words like "disgusting" and stuff like "#FuckNintendo"? Is your respect for copyright so deep down in the gutter that there can't exist reasonable reactions to these kinds of news?

I like how you preemptively phrase modding/fan projects in such a negative way with "do whatever they want with their properties" before claiming you think it's a shame that works of love made by fans for exactly zero dollars aren't worth getting upset about ever, even ones like AM2R, basically the only real Metroid game fans have gotten in close to a decade now.

Also yeah a lot of people who actually follow this nonsense have a pretty low opinion of how copyright is handled in this country in general. In before some shitty strawman about how bad it is in China or w/e.

 

[Toxi]

The "all or nothing" argument is a real gem.

It's an appropriate argument for anyone who seriously thinks it is required for Nintendo to crack down on a project like this.

 

[Hinchy]

The key difference between this and the others is that Nintendo at least let the other things get released before shutting them down.

This is disgraceful.

Please leak the game as surreptitiously as possible.